Does ANYONE think for a moment that if the situation was reversed, the GOP would CAVE to us????

[Logical]

If we were holding the debt limit hostage the GOP would be laughing and telling us to go ahead and default. Because they are not scared of telling their supporters it was the Dems fault and they would use it to make us look bad. And they also know we would never default so they would never cave to our demands.

We always look weak. Always.

[Doctor Hurt]

1. They don't care if we hurt the country. We do,

That isn't weakness. That's strength.

[Logical]

4. You do not know that until you call their bluff? Get it yet??

[JoePhilly]

8. We do know it. Its what 30 years of Reaganomics has caused.

Its the reason the GOP runs up debt.

Their GOAL is to create so much debt that Americans will CHEER the death of Social Security and Medicare. Not just cuts, but the total elimination of those programs.

Everything they do economically speaking has that goal.

If the situation was reversed, they'd let us default, crash the world economy, and end those programs. The rich has the means to ride that out.

[Logical]

9. So your strategy is to be bullied forever! great plan! n-t

[Union Thug]

12. On the one hand, you get cuts to SS. On the other hand, you get cuts to SS.

I'm not sure there's much of a diff.

[readmoreoften]

14. Clearly Dem pols don't care.

[lame54]

19. so far Caring has had no part in this...

unless you count caring about their own jobs

[daa]

2. This is a great day for republicans they get rid of

Obama, social security, Medicare, and medicaid. Welcome to third world amerika.

[mzteris]

3. So just cut the baby in two,

is that what you're saying?

Because we care more than they do? Because we're not willing to destroy EVERYTHING in order to do what we think is right?

That is our fatal flaw. Not weakness.

[Logical]

5. You do not even know if they would default. Until you call their bluff you do not know. Get it?

[adhd_what_huh]

6. you are sooooo wrong. They wanted us to argue about

cutting spending and refuse to cut so they could call us irresponsible. We reversed this and made them refuse to tax the rich and oil companies. We won this debate hands down. Try not to be so damn cynical.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. That is just about the most absurd spin I have ever read.

How to learn that I am right: listen for the next week, and note the GOP will call the Democrats irresponsible anyway. Also they will say weak, they will say 'they cut benefits and did not raise taxes as they promised you'.
Your whole theory hinges, even at this late date, on the folly that Republicans need reason to say things about the Democrats, or that they will be honest about their own role in this debacle. In the end, the President will call them honest brokers and his partners, the Republicans will say they managed to save the nation from the reckless Democrats.
They will say what they want to say no matter what we do, no matter what they do. Trying to place them in a position where 'they can not say we....' is stupid. They do not need reason, they just say what they think sounds good.
The 'centrists' seem stuck on this idea that there is reason on the Republican side, that you can trap them in a corner with logic. Can not be done.

[adhd_what_huh]

18. I am not a centrist... I am left and I want to win.

It is not about what they will say...it is about what we will say.

We have inoculated ourselves from the weak on defense argument with the killing of OBL.
We have inoculated ourselves from the tax and spend argument with the payroll tax cut and recent spending cuts.

We can say we will keep the nation safe and they cannot argue.
We can say we will be responsible with the tax and spend policy and correct the Bush years.
We can say the Rethugs only serve the interest of the rich and corporations.

I cannot argue with your abject cynicism.

[cantbeserious]

7. Not A Chance!

eom

[global1]

10. Of Course Not & They Wouldn't Hesitate To Use The 14th Amendment Either.....nt

[ProfessionalLeftist]

13. Hell no. n/t

[OnionPatch]

15. Back when we had one branch and they had the other plus the exec

The political chatter always included something about how "politically impotent" the Dems were. Suddenly the tables are reversed and it seems we are still just as politically impotent as before.

This feels so much like a game of good-cop/bad-cop to me. No matter how it's arranged, the Dems NEVER "have enough votes" to advance the tiniest of liberal policies, even when huge majorities of the public are behind them. Yet the *minority* Repubs advance their policies even with the public against them. :grr:

It's getting really obvious and really, really old.

[budkin]

16. Being the corporate party has its advantages

[mzmolly]

17. What would happen if the situation were reversed, is...

Republicans would blame Democrats (stirring up a new cultish talking point) and Democrats would blame Democrats by saying that we "caved".

[gulliver]

20. Dems aren't hostage takers.

So we'll never know. The only way to get control of the crazies is to outvote them. You can't out-crazy them, and it's not our nature to try.