Both sides do it: Remember Olbermann saying we should kill righties?

[rfranklin]

No, I don't remember that one either. Anyone remember Rachel's exhortation to kill Glenn Beck? Nope, I missed that one too. I think there must be more examples of this outrageous inflammatory rhetoric. Help me out!

[KansasVoter]

1. Great point!

[zorahopkins]

2. Both Sides Do NOT Do It

There is only ONE side that engages in the type of hatespeech that leads to killings.

It is the rightwing conservative side that engages in pretty much 24/7/365b hatespeech.

Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, O'Reilly, Miller, Nugent -- people like that.

I do NOT accept the notion that Both sides do it, because there is ONLY ONE side that does!

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kestrel91316]

18. Who is he?? What tv or radio program is he on? What elected office did

he run for or hold, and during which time in office did he say to kill Repukes?

I'll be waiting for your information and links.

[Iggo]

22. delete

:patriot:

[RandomKoolzip]

33. That was over 40 years ago.

IS there anyone on the left who has Sarah palin, Glenn BEck, or Rush Limbaugh's high media profile who has advocated violence against right-wing politicians in the last 10 years? You know, TODAY'S political climate?

No, there hasn't,so you guys need to go back to the fucking 1960s to find any equivalent. Pathetic. Shit, why not just bring up the Crusades?

Plus which, Bill Ayers hasn't advocated violent overthrow of the government since 1970 or so, and he's not exactly making policy or using a radio/media apparatus to get his message out - nor is he backed by major corporate donors, think tanks, foundations, and left-wing billionaires, unlike Beck, Limbaugh. etc. Seriously, if you think Ayers and Palin are equivalent, you must not be able to differentiate between a raging elephant and a aged carpenter ant.

[renate]

59. I wish I could give that 1000 Rs

Like you said, there's such a huge difference between then and now. Even during the Sixties, the people advocating violence were not part of the mainstream media. They were, by definition, on the fringe, since most people on the left were talking about peace and love and ending the war. These days, hateful, violent speech turns people into millionaires and heroes. There is a HUGE contextual difference between violence on the left then and on the right now.

[eridani]

39. Blowing up toilets = mass murder? n/t

[valerief]

3. Is there ONE example of a REAL left-of-center bobblehead inciting violence against the RW?

A single ONE?

I think a mail campaign is needed to ask all media outlets to provide a SINGLE INSTANCE of this.

[unblock]

11. not since february 21, 1965.

although "bobblehead" is hardly an appropriate term for malcolm x, a key point of disagreement with mlk was that malcolm x didn't distance himself from violence the way mlk did.

i can't think of anyone on the left who has talked about violence with anything other than condemnation since.

[valerief]

15. Bobblehead is a media person. Is there a single instance of a media person ON THE LEFT inciting

violence?

[kestrel91316]

He was neither a media person with a pulpit on the airwaves nor an

elected public official, nor a candidate for public office.

FAIL.

[unblock]

24. so i guess we shouldn't complain about ann coulter?

[valerief]

27. She's a media person. She's a bobblehead on teevee, yapping on the bobblehead shows.

And writing columns!

[unblock]

31. and malcolm x wasn't a media person?

he never wrote a book?

or gave an interview?

or appeared on television?

he never started a newpaper?

[valerief]

34. self dele dupe

[valerief]

35. He was a political activist. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

Buh bye forever!

[unblock]

36. wow.

[socialist_n_TN]

45. Malcolm believed in self defense. Do you?...........

I do. IF somebody tries to kill me, I'll use everything I have to kill them first. That's self defense.

[unblock]

55. i do, and yes, there were key differences between the violence in malcolm x's rhetoric

compared to today's right-wing.

first, he explicitly denied "advocating" violence, he merely defended it as sometimes necessary in self-defence, though his concept of self-defense was a bit broader than mere direct personal attack as he viewed american blacks as collectively under attack. but to be clear, he wasn't painting gunsights on "enemy" congresscritters (as palin did) or saying things like "we shouldn't kill all the white people, we should leave enough for two on each campus to serve as living fossils" as (limbaugh did re liberals).

in the malcolm x vs. mlk "debate" i always found mlk more appealing because i like the concept of peaceful resistance, though i am fully aware that it doesn't always work. still, one must try before one looks to less desireable alternatives.


in any event, what the right-wing is talking about today isn't self-defense. they want to eliminate their opposition. they want a political version of ethnic cleansing. they want to live in a right-wing society where they don't have to be exposed to liberals, gays, atheists, non-whites, and so on. using violence to achieve those ends is not self-defense.

[Hannah Bell]

52. you must not have been alive then. no comparison. malcolm x was reviled until he was dead.

this newspaper he "started" -- could you tell me more?


this was malcolm x's media debut: in a documentary that tagged the black muslims as a hate group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hate_That_Hate_Produced

he had already been under fbi surveillance for 6 years at the time, since getting a job at ford motor in 1953 & becoming associated with the black muslims.


he was in a debate on this tv show (nyc only) in 1961:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Mind_(TV_series)


in 1963 he was interviewed twice on tv


in 1964 he was interviewed three times on tv & killed.


http://www.brothermalcolm.net/mxtimeline.html.

[unblock]

56. i was alive then, but not by much

but i had family who were huge supporters, fbi files, the works. i grew up in the enlightenment of the sixties, if you will.

here's a link about the newspaper malcolm x claimed to have helped to create, although the nation of islam now says he created a different newspaper:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Speaks



i'm well aware that malcolm x and today's sputterheads like coulter and limbaugh are very different on many levels. among the very few things they had in common was the level of fame via various media and controversial statements about violence.

the main point was that you had to go back nearly a half century before you get to anyone on the left making genuinely controversial statements about violence.

[Hannah Bell]

61. i meant that so far as being a media figure, malcolm x was nowhere near on

the same level.

even in the black community.

[unblock]

63. i understand and agree, yes. his legend grew after he was killed.

[Hannah Bell]

64. and the newspaper he supposedly started?

[Bandit]

58. And did Democrats publicly agree with his statements?

Was there any Democrats that condemned what he said? Were there any Republicans that condemned the Republican running for Senate that said they would resort to "2nd Amendment Remedies"? If you can not understand the difference then you just haven't been paying attention..

[unblock]

60. believe me, i understand the difference. the many differences.

the times, the legitimacy of the greivances, the size of the movement, establishment response, the media coverage and so on.

many differences.

i'm not for a moment equating malcolm x to the whack-a-doodle right-wingers of today.

the ONLY thing i said they had in common was that both had a media presence and both talked about accepting violence under certain circumstances. malcolm x, for the sake of self-defense in the persecution of an entire race; ann coulter and rush limbaugh and sarah palin, for the sake of resolving simple political disagreements.


the o.p. asked for someone on the left who spoke of using violence and i gave the most recent example i could come up with, from half a century ago. i never for a moment said there was any equivalency, moral or otherwise, between malcolm x and sarah palin or anyone else.

people on this thread seem to be reading a lot into my posts that just isn't there.

[socialist_n_TN]

44. And Malcolm only advocated violence in ..............

self defense. Hell, I remember as a young teenager in the South thinking that this guy only said what I heard EVERY day by white people. Violence in self defense is necessary and reasonable.

[Vattel]

49. good, glad some one pointed it out

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I am waiting for Rush to play those cuts

when he does... I will dutifully transcribe.

He promised to do that ten minutes ago.

[rfranklin]

5. Listen for the gaps between the words...

They like to edit in down to the words that suit them.

[emulatorloo]

6. Probably will be a Andrew Breitbart production

That is, if Rush actually plays anything at all,

[Blue Meany]

7. I'm sure they can find something in someone's blog, but

no one with an audience of any significant size. And, lefties would quickly denounce any such exhortation if it occurred. The Right-wing spokespersons do not denounce it. They waffle, using codewords so that the crazies know they really have their approval, while saying that, of course, no one condones violence (but, of course, it is understandable...).

[unblock]

8. i remember rachel maddow saying we should kill the conservatives. well, all but 2 on each campus

to serve as living fossils so we'll never forget what these people stood for.

oh, wait, that wasn't her.

it was rush, talking about liberals:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,163548,00.html

[AspenRose]

9. I'll be waiting; still waiting for the "whitey" tape as well.

[Shandris]

10. Didn't a well-known liberal say that every single conservative should be...

...drug out into the streets and shot as traitors?

OH shit, that was Ann Coulter. Sorry.

[pinboy3niner]

12. Was Pelosi wrong to call for poisoning Boehner's tanning lotion?

No, Operation "Arsenic and Orange Paste" wasn't real either...

[digitaln3rd]

13. You never listened to Mike Malloy?

Hate radio is hate radio.

Mike Malloy, Rush, Glenn, Hannity. They're all the same.

[kestrel91316]

21. 1 leftie, 100 righties. Yep, no difference THERE.

[AndrewP]

26. Mike Malloy is the same as Rush Limbaugh? WTF?

[rustydog]

32. His faux rage turns me off. he is not good for the debate

[eridani]

40. He says he hates right wingers all the time. Name a time when he has

--actually advocated killing any of them.

[sabrina 1]

62. He has advocated killing Republicans, using the 2nd Amend. option

if they get elected?

Or, like Glenn Beck who stated he has 'dreamed about strangling Michael Moore, he dreams about strangling, who?

[upi402]

66. comparing apples and oranges

Mike fights for the rights of the powerless and questions authority.

Rush cashes in as he kisses the ass of authority.

Mike is railing against an actually unjust government

Rush is a propaganda organ of that unjust government.

*Just because Obama is in that unjust government and therefore hasn't even investigated it... doesn't mean it's NOT unjust.

[phleshdef]

14. The modern American left has overwhelmingly been anti-violence/anti-war for a long time now.

OF COURSE that kind of rhetoric doesn't typically come from the left.

If you find it on the left at all, its likely an exception and most certainly not the rule.

Anti-violence/anti-war is largely part of our core ideology.

That is not the case with the modern American right. The right itself has criticized the left for supporting policies that were born of a result of anti-violence tendencies.

[rfranklin]

16. I thought of Mike but he isn't too widely known...

Nothing on the level of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin, Michelle Malkin, et cetera.

[ItNerd4life]

19. Obama - 'They bring a knife we bring a gun'. yeah only RW do it.

I get so sick of this holier than thou crap. Both sides make inflammatory remarks
that are full of hate. But it's much easier to just point your finger than look up facts.

[WinkyDink]

28. Idiom-challenged? I take it you didn't see Costner's "The Untouchables."

[ooglymoogly]

30. 0 is not even vaguely a lefty.

Saying we are going to fight back, is not even close to saying, go kill someone and here is where they live. In order to not get slammed, a brain is required to post here.

[AspenRose]

38. Yeah, that's the same as don't retreat...reload.

:eyes:

[Supersedeas]

20. Military extremists on the left are peaceniks and tree-huggers; Militants are the right

are just violent equivalents of the same extremism on the left.

Or so the argument of the Candy Crowleys, John Kings, and Joe Scarboroughs go.

[RandomKoolzip]

23. A lot of people on the right feel justified in using violent rhetoric because of the 60s.

They probably think they're addressing the need for balance because of Lee Harvey Oswald (who was a CIA asset and not really a communist...BUT ANYWAY...) and the Weather Underground...40 years ago. They have no clue what the current American left stands for because the American left - the ACTUAL, current one - has no real media presence or legitimate represntation in government. So their image of a radical leftist is still set by 60s parameters: bomb-throwing hippies, Communists, etc.

[WinkyDink]

29. Bwahaha! Yeah, they're real history buffs! THEY'RE GUN-NUTS THEMSELVES.

[fascisthunter]

25. I Haven't Heard any Liberal on TV or Radio incitng Murder or Violence

so all you saying the same shit happens here are liars and trolls.

[cascadiance]

37. I do remember Beck pondering for a long while how he might kill Michael Moore...

... on the show live one night. Of course even he forgot that when he tried to make himself out to be a disciple of Martin Luther King for "peace" later.

[littlewolf]

41. Ok I found one .....

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/ex-rep-paul-kanjorski-d-pa-fla-gov-rick-scott-they-ought-put-him-?utm_source=feedburner+BeltwayConfidential&utm_medium=feed+Beltway+Confidential&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BeltwayConfidential+%28Beltway+Confidential%29feed&utm_content=feed&utm_term=feed


Published on Washington Examiner (http://washingtonexaminer.com)
Home > Democratic Congressman on GOP Gov. Rick Scott: 'They ought to put him against a wall and shoot him.'
By Mark Hemingway
Created Jan 10 2011 - 3:06pm
Democratic Congressman on GOP Gov. Rick Scott: 'They ought to put him against a wall and shoot him.'

Comments (0)
While Paul Krugman and other liberal commentators continue to exploit this weekend's tragedy by making hay out of supposedly extreme rhetoric on the right, perhaps they would do well to examine some of the rhetoric that has come from the left. On October 23, The Scranton Times reported that Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa., said this about Florida's new Republican Governor Rick Scott:

"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."

Kanjorski did not win reelection in November. Perhaps the former Congressman was not sincere when he suggested Scott be shot, nonetheless this remark is a far more literal and explict call to violence than the relatively benign (and bipartisan) matter of putting than targets on a map. Yet, Kanjorski's remarks were virtually ignored at the time. One wonders what the reaction would have been if a Republican congressman had called for a Democrat to be put against a wall and shot. I very much doubt it would have been dismissed by Democrats and the national media.

[fascisthunter]

43. Phew... Finally 1

[lostnfound]

48. Well you sure did find one. I'm sure that will be quoted 47,000 tomorrow in the media

because they need evidence of that bipartisan 'both sides of the aisle' thingy.

[stillwaiting]

51. Bet he was a conservative Democrat. Social conservative asshole, probably.

I'm sure that there will be instances on "both sides of the aisle" if that refers to Democrats and Republicans. Even then, the sheer weight of the violent rhetoric from elected Republicans, their media mouthpieces, and their base would make the situation decidedly unequal.

If it refers to conservatives and liberals, well, that's going to be MASSIVELY unequal. It goes right to the heart of modern liberal philosophy, and the fact that the media is LYING about this should have us all outraged to the point that we turn it off for good.

[Major Hogwash]

65. Isn't Rick Scott a crook?

Didn't he pay the biggest fine in history for scamming the Medicare system?

[MaeScott]

67. Yes and Florida elected him. Go figure. nt

[LooseWilly]

42. "righties"? ... ahh hell, I thought he'd said "whities"...

oops, sorry about that whities... :+

[Mojeoux]

46. One more post of the list of recent RW threats. Get the pop corn ready, it's long...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x156254


:hi: :hi: :popcorn:

[donheld]

47. +1000

[DailyGrind51]

50. Randi Rhodes said years ago that "the right" is given far more latitude than "the left",

when it comes to what they are allowed to say publicly.

[Jamastiene]

53. Based on how the right sees it, here is an example of vile leftist violent rhetoric:

"Hey! Stop killing Democrats, would ya?"

THAT is what most of our "rhetoric" is saying. Yet, we are supposed to "tone it down."

I guess they expect us to bend over and take it without even saying a word. That seems to be the message I'm hearing from them.

[Enthusiast]

54. Yet this is the M$M message.

False equivalency.

[Common Sense Party]

57. Randi Rhodes got Air America into hot water with the sounds

of gunshots, intimating a threat to President Bush if he touches Social Security.