The LIst

[Ichingcarpenter]

1. The BP bullshit response
2. Gitmo..... I don't care, could have done a signing statement.
3. Iraq.. sorry we are still there.
4. arresting and attacking whistle blowers
5.Pot ... need I say more?
6. Bailout for banks... his guy dealing with . Geithner.
7. No real arrests on Wall Street just the low petty players
8. Afganistan... no your surge and drones aren't working.
9. Cat food commission.
10. Putting Social security on the table even though not asked to.
11. Appeasing Republicans and calling it 'negotiating.
12. No prosecution of US war criminals and I'm talking about the big guys
13. ATF bullshit on the drug war ... fast and furious and letting drugs in, fucking Holder needs to go
14 Jobs ...... Where the fuck was a WPA type program?
15. Education.... Are you kidding?
16. Didn't have the Shoes or voice for Wisconsin.
17.Super Congress? .... what a joke for democracy.
18.Where are the fucking solar panels for the white house?
19.No real help for those losing their homes
20. His attacks on Liberals through surrogates like Rahm

21. No fucking pony under this pile of shit.

[DURHAM D]

1. Not productive.

[Armstead]

3. Critricizing it without actually responding to any of the points....

is definitely not constructive.

Think it's not valid? Why? Tell the OPer.

[DURHAM D]

6. What do you think the OP's purpose is? nt

[Armstead]

12. People are always pulling out "the list" of accomplishments as....

a boilerplate response to any criticisms of President Obama's performance. And it is inevitably coupled with the rhetorical "See? Look at all he has done. So what is your problem?" as an all purpose substitute for actual dialogue.

This is one person's response to that as a reply.

I might have a different list of responses (some the same, some different) but the OP here is a sincere attempt at discussion of actual -- gasp -- issues.

[LoZoccolo]

15. And the list of accomplishments implies a constructive action to take.

It implies a constructive action that is within the rules of DU to advocate, that of supporting a Democratic candidate for office.

What does this list imply in order to make it constructive?

[Armstead]

23. I'm sorry but I have no clue what you just said.

[LoZoccolo]

26. When someone posts the list of accomplishments, they do it so other people think

"Obama's a pretty cool guy; I think I'll vote for them".

When someone posts a list like the one in the original post, why do they do it? How do they want other people to respond to it? What does the poster want people to do?

[boston bean]

28. to try to make him do the right thing.

[LoZoccolo]

29. Could you be somewhat more specific? n/t

[boston bean]

58. not put SS cuts on the table....

[Armstead]

31. I kind of assume that since this is a discussion board....

they want people to discuss.

If DU were only limited to accomplishments and rah-rah-rah, it would have stopped existing many years ago. It's always been a place for discussion, with very general parameters.

[LoZoccolo]

32. They could do that, but how is it constructive?

I've laid out how the Obama accomplishment list is constructive; how is the list of failures constructive?

[Armstead]

38. To repeat, for the last time, it's called discussion and debate

If you don't believe discussion and debate are constructive on a message board, then the OP was not constructive.

[SusanaMontana41]

80. Some think "Dem" means "Demagogue." n/t

[Forkboy]

41. LOL @ you complaining about someone not being constructive.

:rofl:

[Faux pas]

69. ...

:applause:

[Vanje]

76. +++++++++! nt

[fivepennies]

79. Constructive criticism

If you kept falling on your face, it might be constructive for someone to point out that you were constantly gazing at the clouds instead of watching where you were putting your feet, or that your shoes were three sizes too big for your feet, or that you'd forgotten to tie your shoelaces again.

Or they could leave you lying on your face in the street.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. the OP's purpose is? John Steinbeck's last novel and Shakespeare

"Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of York," from William Shakespeare's Richard III.

I really don't care if its productive when I see destructive behavior. I'm tired
of the so called list thrown out on this board. I choose to give another one.



It's no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Obamanaut]

4. Maybe not, but honest and accurate. nt

[uponit7771]

9. Not honest cause it leaves out gating factors that can't be tied to Obama.

[Obamanaut]

24. Here's a few links to 'Politifact' that is interesting. The first three items

(broken, stalled, in the works) greatly outnumber the kept ones. I did not list the link to compromises.

Promises broken http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

Promises stalled http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/stalled/

In the works http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/in-the-works/

Promises kept http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

[woo me with science]

18. No, extremely productive and important.

People need to be clear about what we are dealing with here.

Third Way Democrats are not aiming for the same goals at a slower pace. The "Third Way" has many of the very same corporate backing and goals as the Republican Party. The priorities of this administration are evident in its policies.

The sooner people confront these facts and identify what is really going on, the sooner we can reclaim our party.

[Lorien]

75. You are correct: Obama isn't productive for America. In fact, he's destructive

to everything that traditional Dems and working people care about.

[Warren DeMontague]

83. No, spending $40 Billion a year to throw chemo-sick cancer grannies in prison for smoking weed is

"not productive".

This is reasonable criticism and a solid list of disappointments, most of which I am in agreement on, like #5.

[Brickbat]

2. EFCA? What's EFCA?

New free-trade deals that make a mockery of labor.
Education department that blames teachers for all problems.

Oh wait, you got education all ready.

[Armstead]

7. I assume that's the Employee Free Choice Act

A proposal that was going to ease barriers to unionization.

Obama was all hot to trot on that when he was campaigning for labor's votes. Then it just kind of ......disappeared......

[Brickbat]

11. I was adding that as part of the list.

It's pretty much the White House's attitude toward it.

Believe me, I know what EFCA is. :)

[Armstead]

14. Ooops, misread your post....Thought was a question. Sorry.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Beep beep beep

:evilgrin:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

73. Passed the House, stalled in the Senate. Why don't DUers understand

that these proposals MUST get through Congress FIRST!??!?!?!?!?

[Brickbat]

81. I understand it quite well. What I don't understand is the fear Senate Democrats had of fighting

for it.

[BNJMN]

5. Yawn. Operation Chaos, fails into the sunset, yet again.

lol

:D

[Bluebear]

66. ?

[uponit7771]

8. ******EPIC FAIL********** ObamaPromiseMeter.com has REAL list of PROMISES KEPT

[Armstead]

20. Failed "fail"

First of all, if someone promises a mix of 20 big and minor things they are going to do (or at least try to do), and fulfill 5 of the smaller ones, and either don't fill -- or do the opposite of what they said -- on the other 15, you would have a right to call them into account.

Secondly, instead of wasting your typing on asterisks, how about telling the OP why you think he is wrong on specific items on that list?

[uponit7771]

22. Failed failed "fail", you don't get to choose what's "minor" or major....

[Armstead]

25. Yes I do. This is a discussion board. You get to choose too.

[LoZoccolo]

27. Nader thought that global warming was minor. n/t

[Armstead]

33. In was wondering how many posts you'd go before returning to the old Nader chestnut

That was over a decade ago. You might think about getting over it.

[LoZoccolo]

35. It still fits. n/t

[Faux pas]

71. ...

:thumbsup:

[Forkboy]

42. 4 Dems join GOP fight to block EPA climate rules

WASHINGTON — Four Democrats are joining a Republican effort to block the Environmental Protection Agency from reducing heat-trapping pollution blamed for global warming.

--

The bill, introduced Thursday in the House and Senate, would not bar states from taking action on global warming gases and preserves a deal between the Obama administration and automakers to boost fuel economy and to introduce greenhouse gas standards on tailpipes. But it goes much further than other proposals Democrats have backed by permanently hamstringing the EPA. A bill by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., would delay any action on large sources of pollution for two years.

--

Momentum against global-warming regulations grows

While passage of some measure to hamstring the EPA in the House was all but assured by the Republican majority, the addition of four Democrats shows the momentum against the agency's global-warming regulations is growing. The three House Democratic sponsors, along with 10 other Democrats, voted in February for a rider to a House-passed budget bill that would have prohibited the EPA from using any money to regulate global warming pollution.

"I am dead set against the EPA's plowing ahead on its own with new regulations to limit greenhouse gases," Rahall said in a statement. Rahall, who worries regulation will harm coal producers in his district, said that Congress should set policy governing global warming gases.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41904092/ns/politics-capitol_hill/t/dems-join-gop-fight-block-epa-climate-rules/

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. Copenhagen's failure belongs to Obama- Naomi Klein

Contrary to countless reports, the debacle in Copenhagen was not everyone's fault. It did not happen because human beings are incapable of agreeing, or are inherently self-destructive. Nor was it all was China's fault, or the fault of the hapless UN.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but there was one country that possessed unique power to change the game. It didn't use it. If Barack Obama had come to Copenhagen with a transformative and inspiring commitment to getting the US economy off fossil fuels, all the other major emitters would have stepped up. The EU, Japan, China and India had all indicated that they were willing to increase their levels of commitment, but only if the US took the lead. Instead of leading, Obama arrived with embarrassingly low targets and the heavy emitters of the world took their cue from him.

(The "deal" that was ultimately rammed through was nothing more than a grubby pact between the world's biggest emitters: I'll pretend that you are doing something about climate change if you pretend that I am too. Deal? Deal.)

I understand all the arguments about not promising what he can't deliver, about the dysfunction of the US senate, about the art of the possible. But spare me the lecture about how little power poor Obama has. No president since FDR has been handed as many opportunities to transform the US into something that doesn't threaten the stability of life on this planet. He has refused to use each and every one of them. Let's look at the big three.

Blown Opportunity No 1: The Stimulus Package

When Obama came to office, he had a free hand and a blank cheque to design a spending package to stimulate the economy. He could have used that power to fashion what many were calling a Green New Deal – to build the best public transit systems and smart grids in the world. Instead, he experimented disastrously with reaching across the aisle to Republicans, low-balling the size of the stimulus and blowing much of it on tax cuts. Sure, he spent some money on weatherproofing, but public transport was inexplicably short-changed while highways that perpetuate car culture won big.

Blown Opportunity No 2: The Auto Bailouts

Speaking of the car culture, when Obama took office he also found himself in charge of two of the big three carmakers, and all of the emissions for which they are responsible. A visionary leader committed to the fight against climate chaos would obviously have used that power to dramatically re-engineer the failing industry so that its factories could build the infrastructure of the green economy the world desperately needs. Instead Obama saw his role as uninspiring downsizer-in-chief, leaving the fundamentals of the industry unchanged.

Blown Opportunity No 3: The Bank Bailouts

Obama, it's worth remembering, also came to office with the big banks on their knees – it took real effort not to nationalise them. Once again, if Obama had dared to use the power that was handed to him by history, he could have mandated the banks to provide the loans for factories to be retrofitted and new green infrastructure to be built. Instead he declared that the government shouldn't tell the failed banks how to run their businesses. Green businesses report that it's harder than ever to get a loan.

Imagine if these three huge economic engines – the banks, the car companies, the stimulus bill – had been harnessed to a common green vision. If that had happened, demand for a complementary energy bill would have been part of a coherent transformative agenda.

Whether the bill had passed or not, by the time Copenhagen had rolled around, the US would already have been well on its way to dramatically cutting emissions, poised to inspire, rather than disappoint, the rest of the world.

There are very few US presidents who have squandered as many once-in-a-generation opportunities as Obama. More than anyone else, the Copenhagen failure belongs to him.

[LoZoccolo]

67. And? n/t

[Forkboy]

74. ...awaaay we go!

[Ignis]

62. ***NEEDS***MORE***STARS!***

[LoZoccolo]

10. #20 is fake outrage propagated by Fire Dog Lake.

Rahm threw an insult at worst at the people who came to threaten him, and more probably at the threat itself. Robert Gibbs attacked people spreading a particular falsehood.

[Scurrilous]

13. Cool list, bro.

:thumbsup:

[LoZoccolo]

16. I accidentally 21 of Obama's failures. n/t

[MrScorpio]

17. And where is Congress' culpability on this list?

Or were we to expect that Obama was supposed to be some kind of dictator from the left who fulfills all of our dreams?

[uponit7771]

19. Basher reply - OBAMA IS KING DAMMIT!!! There is no congress

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. And, where is Obama's veto pen to make congress culpable?

[MrScorpio]

40. A veto isn't an option if the Congress fails to act

Like when it fails to pass legislation to fund the transfer of prisoners from Gitmo because none of the congresscritters want them housed in their districts. And don't hit back with that bullshit about a "signing statement". We pitched a fit when Bush issued signing statements. so why would an Obama signing statement be any different?

Oh…

Because it's something WE want!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Isn't that the purpose of voting for politcians? To get what "we" want?

I've never voted for a Republican because I'm pretty damned sure he/she wasn't about to give me what I want. It makes a helluva lot more sense to vote for someone who is allegedly going to give me what I want and bitch when he/she fails to do so.

As to the veto, it is an option when congress does act and presents a crappy bill like the one Obama just signed. The executive isn't as powerless as some here like to portray it as being.

[Ichingcarpenter]

46. The Veto and Signing Statements

Haven't seen one Signing statement.

[woo me with science]

21. Well said. nt

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

37. ROFL...

Sid

[Forkboy]

44. Clever!

[hifiguy]

39. K&R

:kick:

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. .

ADD:

* Libya is absolutely inexplicable. Worse still it green lights every half-reasoned war.
* Wiretaps expanded
* Indefinite detentions
* Extra-judicial killings
* Crony capitalists in the White House that take taxpayer money, pay next to nothing in taxes and then ship jobs overseas. I'm looking at you Mr. Immelt.
* The only thing transparent about the WH is the fact its accomplishments in transparency are so thin you can see through the paper they're printed on
* For all the money spent, the ARRA's only value was galvanizing political opposition. The only thing that was shovel ready were the promises
* No public option, end of discussion. No really, he ended the discussion of the public option.
* Extended tax cuts during a lame duck session of congress when the Democrats still controlled both houses
* For all the hand-wringing we just went through, neither did request a clean debt-ceiling increase back when the D's held both houses
* Or a budget, just a bunch of CRA's until the R's took over the House and with it the entire tenor of the debate
* Mandated corporate patronage, i.e. health insurance
* Bailouts for people who lose money even though BOTH sides of the political spectrum opposed it
* The "stay back and see how the playing field develops" strategy does nothing but concede initiative to the other side. That's not leadership.
* Cutting $500 billion from Medicare then calling it "bending the cost curve down" with the healthcare law
* Where was all that dynamic, creative energy we were promised especially when his own party held both houses of congress?

DEBATE:

17. To be fair. The "super-congress" will build the bill but that's no different from any other bill process and just like those other bills the full congress will get to vote, just not amend. That's not to imply I'll approve of their suggestion, just noting that on strictly procedural grounds it's not the bogeyman many have portrayed it to be.

COMMENTS:

I'm told I have to vote for Obama and not primary challenge him or else the GOP will takeover.

And do what? Cut away at unions? They're already doing that state-by-state.

Gut our social security? We've been loaning that money to the general fund for decades and printing money so fast whatever money is in there will be devoured by inflation. We now have financial freedom and by freedom I mean, nothing left to lose.

Tax cuts? Those who have money are either sitting on it or buying themselves ambassadorships.

There were very big, specific reasons why the first time in my life I was eligible to vote I chose to vote for Obama. Those reasons were healthcare, fiscal discipline and an end to wars that did more harm than protecting. Those reasons were betrayed. Not just left unfilled but betrayed. How can I protest Iraq when the guy I voted for goes into Libya and defies congress to do it?

When I look at the president and my principles I realize one of us has to remain true to those principles.

Don't just tell me I have to vote for Obama lest Palin/Bachmann/whoever be elected, tell me where the points I've listed not relevant or are untrue. If you can't tell me why I have to support a candidate that is so fundamentally flawed?

The reason why the TP pols are so tenacious is because they hold to their principles. How can we yell at our pols for capitulating on their principles when we keep capitulating on our principles by voting for them?

[Ichingcarpenter]

Your list is more articulate than mine

Obama needs an intervention with his family of Democrats

[Nuclear Unicorn]

50. I want to say "thanks" but nothing I wrote makes me feel proud.

And I don't see an intervention if the family is as dysfunctional as the person they are supposed to intervene with.

[DearAbby]

52. +1

:applause:

[treestar]

47. Well nothing is good enough for you, is it?

What a negative person.

[Fire1]

49. Ditto. n/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

51. Diagnosis of a crippling or fatal disease is not negativism

Anymore than criticism of the president's predecessor was negativism or any of the more hyperbolic adjectives assigned.

[Ichingcarpenter]

53. Oh... happy, happy joy joy

Better?

[Forkboy]

55. Same with my endocrinologist.

I still have a little bit of cancer but she demands we get rid of ALL of it. Nothing is good enough for her.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. I sure hope that is only a metaphor

I recently lost my very dear, very beloved MIL to cancer.

:hug:

[Forkboy]

57. I wish it were.

Sorry about your mother. Mine died of ovarian cancer last summer. :hug:

[treestar]

59. This list is not akin to that

It's purely negative - taking the positive and finding a way to make it negative.

[Forkboy]

60. Well, it's only fair, and some take negatives and try to make them positive.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. What is positive in what I listed? None of the above acts were done by a Republican?

Do you find nothing wrong with extra-judicial killings, wars without cause or congressional oversight, crony capitalists in the administration?

If I have my facts wrong please tell me where.

Just because something is unpleasant doesn't mean it is untrue or immaterial. In some circles a refusal to ascent to bad or unsettling news is called Denial.

[kenny blankenship]

63. You left out this: Gay people can now die for the Empire!

With the rest of the suckers.

[Ichingcarpenter]

64. Yeah that one I was mixed about

not because of Gay Rights, but the god damn Militarization of additional fodder.

I would have rather seen him support gay marriage.

[Capitalocracy]

78. Believe it or not, some gay people want to die for the empire.

And they should have that right. I'll take a win where I can get it... there haven't been very many.

[philly_bob]

65. A valuable (if informal) list of progressive complaints against Obama.

Although lately I have found myself defending him against some DU attackers, these cover my disappointments with his term. I expect Obama to understand that he needs to explain his actions on these subjects before he gets the nod in the next Democratic convention.

No. 18 is more symbolic and doesn't rise to the level of seriousness of the other points. No. 21, of course, is just a good joke.

I don't agree with those who say this doesn't belong on DU.

[blkmusclmachine]

68. Well, that's a start...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. This flamebait OP does nothing to help us as Democrats. Unreccing! n/

[amborin]

72. FISA? and Mr. Arar ...... Public Option?

[DireStrike]

77. Transparency fail is big on my list.

[Number23]

82. Damn. Too late to unrec

Oh well. I'll just have to be satisfied knowing that The List (TM) of the president's achievements drives the unhinged even more unhinged.
Actually, that's far better than a mere unrec. :)