I don't want to hear about Palin's map, it is not the issue

[cling2reality]

This may not be popular as a new poster but I have lurked around here a lot and feel it is time to express myself in a rant.
I beg of you, drop the Sarah Palin crosshair references and stop talking about the stupid map. By focusing on that aggressive but overall relatively minor issue we allow the right wingers and media to dismiss the premise of what we are trying to express. Even Keith, Rachel, and to a degree, Cenk are not enunciating the points enough to require a response.
They all talk about hate speech then give examples of gun metaphors used by repub politicians or reference the infamous “reload” tweet from Sarah. These are not the issue and the culprits barely have to defend them. What I mean is, that unless someone has a picture of this shooter loading his clips while salivating over the takebacktwenty.com webpage, the argument over crosshairs vs. “surveyor marks” is completely irrelevant.

It is important to explain this as the multi-layered, coordinated attack it has been for years and how that affects the deranged component in our society. This groundwork for this shooting goes back to before the Iraq war when those of us who disagreed with policy were “un-American” or “didn’t love our country” or “stood with the terrorists” or were asked “why do you love Saddam”.
That was the beginning of the demonizing and de-humanizing of those on the left. Dick Cheney owns that. George Bush owns that. Condi Rice and Ari Fleischer fucking own that. They questioned the patriotism of anyone who disagreed.
As the years went by this grew into Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and the other wannabes saying that Dems were “domestic terrorists” who “hated their country” and were trying to “destroy it from within”.

Then we got to the 2008 election where McCain and Palin loved it when speakers at their rallies used Obama’s middle name to imply he was a terrorist. They fucking own this shooting.

A lot of repubs attended the hate filled tea party rallies and clapped along while Victoria Jackson sang “there’s a communist living in the white house”. They fucking own this shooting.

Limbaugh has said we “are fighting the wrong terrorist in Afghanistan. The real terrorists we should be fighting are the Dems”. He also talks about Obama, Pelosi, and Reid sending their “brownshirts” to come get you.
Beck says “no one stopped the holocaust and millions dies. There is a great evil coming to America. We said never again. Will you be the one to stop it.” When a 47 year old woman named Bev, who was just placed on disability, calls his show and asked if she will be spared from being euthanized by Obama’s government because she still had a child at home, he says “I hope so” as she holds back tears.
When you toy with the mentally challenged like this and paint an alternate reality with fictional ogres who are going to have you put to sleep because you have no worth to society, you fucking own this shooting.

Those with mental illness are able to put these pieces together enough to know they have to do the patriotic thing and take up arms on behalf of their country. Frankly, I don’t think Sarah’s map or things like Angle’s “second amendment” comment will propel the nut job to take action without the foundation being laid so well by the echo chamber for the past 7 or 8 years. However, once that foundation is laid, the crosshairs on a map could be the final piece of the decoder ring a lunatic is looking for as a sign the he must answer the call to action.
So please stop talking about Sarah’s map or referencing Limbaugh’s dumb “don’t kill all the liberals” statement and demand the media require these assholes to own the entirety of their actions as they have driven home this message that Dems are unpatriotic, America hating, evil, domestic terrorists who are coming to kill you and must be stopped at any costs. Make them answer for the entire spectrum and it will eliminate any false equivalent argument based on inconsequential metaphors.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
-Voltaire

[The Restoration]

1. We have to look at Watts Vs.US

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=394&invol=705

(posting the case because I could be lost in the shuffle)

[scarletwoman]

8. Could you give some sort of summary? I'd like to know why it's relevant.

I'm on dialup, and I prefer not to click on external links unless there's some information about what I'll find there that I find particularly compelling.

Thank you.

[wiggs]

2. Great and pertinent quote by Voltaire. Pertinent post as well. nt

[emulatorloo]

Good post. Palin's graphic is one tiny drop in a very large bucket

Thanks for posting this, and WELCOME TO DU

[emulatorloo]

3. Self-delete (DU feels everything I say is worth repeating.)

yet I am not to sure about that

[MindandSoul]

4. Excellent, and very true in my opinion! The issue is much deeper than Palin, Beck and even

Limbaugh! Those clowns are simply playing (probably for a lot of money in their pocket) in the hands of a much more clever and deadly (for our country) mastermind!

[Dappleganger]

5. Welcome to DU!

A very thoughtful post--you are absolutely correct, the groundwork has been laid for an incident such as this, and the crosshairs/gun talk is just a small piece of the puzzle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Rec

and welcome to DU

:hi:

My only critique is... enter between paragraphs... for reading ease.

[mzmolly]

7. I'm going to talk about all of it.

But, I gave you a K and R, anyhow. :hi:

Welcome.

[HereSince1628]

9. If you have a link to show that the mentally well are less easily misled

by the right wing media than the mentally ill, I'd like that link. I've been looking for it for days.

Lacking anything other than echoes of the meme that all mentally ill are stupid and gullible, I'm becoming convinced that it is just a false but popular myth.

The notion that the mentally ill are weak minded and gullible seems to be used in times like these by persons who assume they are mentally well to create a sense of psychic separation and safety from all those mythically scary mentally ill.

The public doesn't yet know anything about a credible psychological diagnosis for Jared Loughner. Some of the symptoms attributed to him are shared with some severe mental illnesses. But, at this time we don't know which disorder(s) he may have, consequently we don't know if that morbidity would make him suggestible to murder.

[cling2reality]

12. Let me explain

I am not sure I understand your point entirely so sorry if my response is not dead on.

I am not saying that the mentally ill are always weak minded and gullible. Quite the opposite, I am saying that of the large pool (tea partiers, limbaugh listeners, beck fans)of those who are weak minded and gullible, some are bound to have mental issues. They are the ones who hear the dog whistle.

Like Ralphie in A Christmas Story working on the secret message from Ovaltine, they are intently trying to put the pieces together and solve the puzzle. When they solve whatever outrageous puzzle they see in their own reality shaped by the constant right wing rhetoric it can sound like an unavoidable call to action for them.

My wife's family has a lot of fox news loving tea party types. Are they weak and gullible? Yes. Mentally ill? No.
She was shocked by the looks of horror from close family members when she said something positive about Obama and mentioned voting for him.

Their expressions could not have been more horrified if she had admitted to randomly stabbing nuns as a hobby.

On the way home she asked why even though we have different political views were they were so taken aback. I explained that they believed all that stuff we brush off as bullshit. They believe Obama is an actual Muslim terrorist who wants to abort all babies and will set up death panels.

They believe Dems are trying to destroy the Constitution. In their fox/limbaugh world, these things are known facts.

They also believe that we accept these things as facts also because again in their isolation chamber reality no one disputes any of this.

Therefore when she admits to voting for Obama her family members believe she had all the factual information they had and yet made a deliberate and fully informed decision to vote for an anti-American terroist who wants to kill everybody over 60 and will never follow the constitution.

(Because I live in the midwest, they also believe Obama is going to pass laws that allow people with darker skin to come get all your stuff right after he bans all guns.)

This is incomprehensible to them and my wife is seen as slightly dangerous to them now because of her vote.

Luckily, none of them seems to be off center enough to have the capacity for murder. But what if one of them did?

Does that answer your question?

[eridani]

10. Good points, but the demonization started well before 2003 n/t

It dates back to the Clinton administration. Rep. James Hansen on Bill Clinton: Get rid of the guy. Impreach him, censure him, assassinate him."

The Kennedys and MLK, Jr. weren't exactly right wing either.

[SoCalDem]

15. It started in a big way with Carter.. It was payback for Watergate

and it's never let up..

Republicanism became the default and any dem was automatically a place-filler, until the rightful-owners could reclaim the "throne".

[chollybocker]

11. Great first post, clinger.

:thumbsup:

[GeorgeGist]

13. Reagan said it better.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

Jared and Sarah agree.

[cling2reality]

14. I agree with those who say it started before 2003 but

2003 is when the right wing cranked up the "anti-American" "don't love their country" crap of denying the patriotism of those of us who did not toe the line.

This was so successful at making elected Dems do whatever the wingnuts wanted, they realized it's effectiveness and never looked back.

Before that it seems they were just preaching a general anti government message and complaining about the libruls.

[rainlillie]

16. Until there's proof that this guy was inspired by Palin. or other right-wing

leaders, the main issue IMO is mental illness.

[cling2reality]

17. Totally disagree,

that is the thinking that lets these repubs continue to spew irresponsible hate speech.

What would be the "proof" ? Websites visited? Tea party signs in his garage?

We are talking about larger things here. They have been allowed to create a dangerous culture where Dems are viable targets of violence because they are not "real Americans". Well they sure fucking bleed like real Americans.

Any physical manifestations of Jared's ties to repubs would just be dismissed in some ridiculous fashion and frankly be distractions.

What they cannot dismiss and don't want to talk about is their own words and what those words mean. We need to continue to pound that message rather than grasp for loose ties to the shooter's political affiliations.

Even a non-political nut job could be influenced enough to take this type of horrific action if they listened to Rush for a few days. Remember they are already a little off.

[rainlillie]

18. Proof would be solid evidence that links him to Palin or other right wingers..

I like to deal in facts and try not to let emotion get in the way of seeking them. I'm waiting until the investigation is complete.

[cling2reality]

20. Why the culture is important

Here is the scenario:

Nut job with no political affiliation goes to meeting in 2007 with congressperson. Asks congressperson some weird pseudo philosophical question. Congressperson does not answer the weird question to the nut job's satisfaction. Nut job leaves upset.

Congressperson is a repub.
"News" tells nut job that congressperson is a patriot who stands up for America and defends them against terrorists.
Nut job is frustrated but accepts that congressperson is still keeping them safe.


Congressperson is a Dem.
"News" tells nut job that congressperson is an America hating terrorist who wants to kill babies and grandmothers while they burn the Constitution. "News" also speaks in apocalyptic terms about killing liberals or leaders recommend "2nd Amendment remedies".
Nut job now perceives that not only is it acceptable to shoot congressperson but actually a patriot duty. They head out to buy the bullets.

Therefore, those in the "news" who created the dangerous culture which seems to permit assassination of Dems are still to blame even if nut job has no political affiliation at all.

[reformist2]

19. You are correct, but your thinking is way too advanced for the Tea Party.

We can't even get them to admit that pictures of political maps with crosshairs are dangerous! Talking to them about a "toxic atmosphere" will have them rolling their eyes like surly teenagers. We're trying to discuss things with people who don't like to think - these people aren't conservative or even libertarian - they are anti-intellectuals.

[cling2reality]

21. I know, they hate the "elite" intellectuals

who actually go to school and live in a world where facts matter.

This is why I wish someone would push the narrative of:
It doesn't matter about his political affiliation or if he had no political affiliation. The right wingers said it was acceptable to shoot people. This shooting shows that words have consequences so they need to STFU.