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Two media outlets defend Howard Dean against George Will's attack.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:15 PM
Original message
Two media outlets defend Howard Dean against George Will's attack.
And I say good for them. Greg Sargent of The Plum Line and Dave Cook of the Christian Science Monitor call out George Will on what he wrote on Dean's words about the Tea Party.

In fact Dean even wrote a letter to the editor of the Washington Post defending himself.

Good for them. George Will left out so much of what Dean said at the Monitor breakfast that he was in effect telling a lie.

Here's what George Will said:

The charlatans' response to the Tucson tragedy

Three days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the Tea Party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse, Dean smeared Tea Partyers as racists: They oppose Obama's agenda, Obama is African American, ergo . . .

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation of liberals whose default position in any argument is to indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left - devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data - is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral weakness and bad sociology.


Talk about twisting words...did I say I don't care for George Will?

Here's what the CSM said in defense of Dean's words.

What Howard Dean said about the tea party and race

Columnist George Will writes that former DNC Chair Howard Dean is guilty of 'McCarthyism on the left' for comments made at a Monitor breakfast. But further quotes provide context for Dean's assertion that the tea party is the 'the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity.'

..."The column has created some controversy here in Washington, with Will accusing Dean of “McCarthyism of the left.” In particular, Will takes issue with Dean’s assertion that the tea party movement is “the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity.”

..."But in additional comments at the breakfast, Dean took pains to emphasize that he did not think members of the “real tea party” were racist.

In comments not in the Monitor article on the event but included in other accounts, Dean said: “I don’t believe these people are racist. Of course there are the people you have on television. There are racists in the tea party. But I don’t believe this is a racist thing. Some would call it racist. You could make the case for that if you wanted to. I don’t see it that way. I see it as an evolutionary thing, of getting used to something that is new and different and unsettling that the country has changed. It is like the gay-rights revolution.”


And then they repeat this paragraph of Dean's.

Other comments included in the Monitor article also sought to provide important nuance to observations about race and the tea party movement.

Suggesting that there are actually three “tea parties,” Dean said: “There is the racist fringe…. There is the Dick Armey corporate tea party, which doesn’t have anything much more to do with the real tea party than the racist fringe. (Mr. Armey is a Republican former House majority leader now active in the tea party movement.) And then there is the real tea party … which is the vast majority – which are pretty socially conservative even though they try to mask that.”


That was a fair description.

And here is Greg Sargent from Plum Line:

George Will smears Howard Dean

It didn't take long to dig up what Dean actually said:

Dean, the former Vermont governor known for his no-holds-barred demeanor, was careful at The Christian Monitor-sponsored breakfast for reporters to add that he didn't view tea party activists as "racist." But he suggested that discomfort with the election of the first African-American president and an increasingly diverse electorate largely fueled the movement.

"I think it's the last gasp of the 55-year-old generation...a group of older folks who've seen their lives change dramatically,'' he said. "The country is not the same...and all of a sudden it's here for them and they don't know what to do...Every morning when they see the president they are reminded that things are totally different than they were when they were born and I think that has a lot to do with it."

"Economic uncertainty fuels this but this is the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity,'' Dean added. "The tea party is almost entirely over 55 and white, and the country has changed dramatically as a result of what happened in 2008 and it's not going back. Every day that goes on, the demographic change continues, and that's what a lot of this is about."

In other words, Dean explicitly didn't call Tea Partyers racist. Rather, he was arguing that demographic change and economic uncertainty are among the factors creating the unease in Tea Party ranks. That's a blunt point, to be sure, but even those who strongly disagree with it would have to agree -- if they're being intellectually honest -- that Will's depiction of it has no basis in reality. I'd say Will's casual misrepresentation of Dean's words does far more to lower the "tone of public discourse" than anything Dean said.


Exactly right.

And here is Dean's letter to the editor:

Howard Dean: 'It's time . . . to stop this cycle of vitriol'

For too long the dangerous propagandist tactic of mixing of truth, half-truths and lies has been used to inflame popular sentiments and fear. It was therefore disappointing to see The Post contribute to this cycle of vitriol in our public discourse with a column by George F. Will that erroneously claimed I called the Tea Party racist ("Charlatans' blame game," op-ed, Jan. 11). In fact, as Post blogger Greg Sargent pointed out by fully citing my comments, I specifically said that I did not consider the Tea Party to be racist.

It's time we each do our part to stop this cycle of vitriol.

Howard Dean, Burlington, Vt.


It's time for all of us to speak out when the media misrepresents. Our side has not done that traditionally, and it is time to start. That is why the right wing noise machine is having a fun time right now trying to blame the AZ shooting on "the left"....because we don't fight back.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. did george will apologize. did he take it back. did he say he was wrong???
thanks for the post
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I was just looking, can't find anything yet. I doubt he apologized.
Few of them do.

I'll keep checking.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. ah, dont waste your time if you dont know. i doubt it too. thanks. nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. The Tea Party and its defenders don't apologize.
They "Reload".
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Guess the truth about the Tea Party tells a lot about George.
He might try to act like he is above the stupidity, but....
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. George Will is long time scum.
He can't help himself.
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cilla4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have personally heard Dean speak up for the
Tea Party as a populist economic movement on many occasions.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. Liberal_Stalwart71 says: The vast majority of Tea Party members ARE racists!
I stand by that statement and proclaim it loudly and proudly!!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Will opens an attack on sociology with a bad sociological statement. lol
He's an idiot, too, with a little better diction.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. That was a truly awful column.
I don't like the man at all.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. George Will should stick to baseball..His political relevance
was over 20 years ago...
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. He's a jinx to the Cubs. I wish he'd find another team! n/t
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. George Will is a TRAITOR...
...in addition to being a professional liar.

Will helped the greedheads steal the 1980 election.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Nutshell: George Will is a hypocritical flip-flopper.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. I had forgotten about his coaching Reagan using Carter's debate notes.
"Will's approach has been questioned in a few exceptional cases. During the 1980 campaign, he drew fire when it was learned he'd secretly coached Republican candidate Ronald Reagan for a debate with President Jimmy Carter using a debate briefing book stolen from the Carter campaign. Immediately following the debate, Will appeared on Nightline (10/28/80) to praise Reagan's "thoroughbred performance," never disclosing his role in rehearsing that performance (New York Times, 7/9/83)."

Thank you for reminding me.

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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. Thanks for that link.
It's a really good look at what a hypocritical, sanctimonious pseudo-intellectual George Will is.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. George Will had a part in the murder of a 9 y/o girl
Guilty! It's on tape, his hateful rhetoric and smears.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. George Will
is a pompous blowhard whose pedantic ramblings serve his corporate masters, truth be damned. As for baseball, he's fact challenges there too. People who buy into the right wing bigotry are........
The pasty white Will should be busing tables at Denny's, not offering his musings to the fearful and gullible dupes who watch Pox News yet still can read.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. His baseball knowledge is...pedantic.
My daughter and I were listening to NPR one evening, driving home from one of her college baseball games, and George Will was bloviating about baseball, something about the strategy on the field, when my daughter busted out laughing, and said "Has this doofus even ever seen a baseball game live?".
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. we do fight back
they don't report that part. otherwise thank you for posting this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. We do, our party leaders as a whole do not.
But we do.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dean's actual comments seem accurate to me
That George Will would misrepresent them so egregiously is a good thing, in a way. It's a nice glimpse into how rightwing/corporate media distorts, twists, and outright ignores the truth.

We need a strong center/left news network (as easily available to the public as FUX) to counterbalance this kind of bullshit from Will, Beck, Limbaugh, etc.

The reason they right is so damn successful at duping people can be found in a quote attributed to Mark Twain (though there's no evidence he actually said it): A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

I'd add to that that the left can't even find its shoes.

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bulloney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. True, but whose message will reach the largest audience?
I'm afraid Will's message will be read by many people unchallenged because they don't have access to the media that rebutted him such as CSM. And the cycle of disinformation continues.

Who's to say that Will doesn't continue his disinformation on the topic on "This Week" on Sunday? I'll flip if I find out he apologized.

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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. Both sides *klik*...both sides *klik*...both sides....
All part of the M$M drumbeat that Sarah Palin is no worse than Barack Obama.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. George Will has been intellectually dishonest since 1980, at
the very least, when he participated in Raygun's cheating debate prep with Carter's stolen briefing book. He has not improved in the years since then.




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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. Republicans will lie about anything and everything
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jeremyfive Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
20. George Will invents things. . .like "facts".
George Will is a good actor, like Reagan. He can make you think he believes the lies and libel he fabricates are true.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
21. My concern is what the Democratic leadersip will say in response to
all the both sides do it bullshit. I think I know what they'll say, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. That is almost exactly how they respond to most things.
The party leadership would never defend him....and they never defend "the left" either. It's an unspoken party leadership rule, I think.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. It isn't so much that guys like Will are bald-faced liars,
it is that the mainstream news outlets seemingly have no problem with printing the lies. It is the nakedness of the whole thing that bothers me. As is shown above, George Will is fucking lying about the facts of Dean's speech. The newspapers that run his column are actually more culpable than Will if they do not run an editorial calling him out on his lies.

Remember! This is not a lie about a nuanced subject. Will is flat out lying about the facts and dares anyone to challenge his insanity.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Exactly! nt.
.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. Fuck George Will.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. maybe we should start a campaign
to remove George from the Post. After all, Helen Thomas was removed for inappropriate comments...George told a deceptive lie. (as if any lie wasn't a deception)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Good idea.
But never would happen. Would be nice though.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I know
sigh
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. George Will is grasping at straws, and no wonder
An old school Catholic conservative, he has been thoroughly bypassed by the screaming crazies. In an unsuccessful
attempt to retain legitimacy on the right, he tries to adopt the Ailes tactic of selecting quotes out of context
or selectively editing them to indicate someone said something diametrically opposed to what they really said.

But as Will identifies with Sarah Palin and Louie Gohmert no more than he identifies with Howard, he looks more
like "Little Boy Lost," trying to grab a seat in a game of musical chairs when he is the slowest kid in his class
after the music has stopped. Will tries to preach, but even the choir has left.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. "he looks more like "Little Boy Lost," trying to grab a seat in a game of musical chairs
Very descriptive, DFW :)
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Looks like he need an enema. n/t
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm not Howard-so I can say they are racist scum
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
36. Interesting observation by Dean of the racist T-BAGGERS ... and why would Geo. Will like it?
George Will has done nothing but support the right wing elites his entire career --

and their right to profit from exploitation -- even by race if they wish!

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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. George will is an idiot.
And he doesn't know anything about baseball, either.
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
43. Forgot who George Will so I google for a image found this funny one:

http://bkmarcus.com/2007/02/20/george-will-libertarian/




“Anthony Gregory says:
February 20, 2007 at 2:10 pm

It is an extraordinary privilege for me to be able to be associated with the name Milton Friedman in this tangential way tonight. I am the son of a professor of philosophy at the University of Illinois. I was briefly an academic before I turned to journalism. And it is interesting, surely, and a tribute to the man whom we’ve just celebrated in that video that economics is the only academic field in the last 30 or 40 years that has actually moved to the right. And one of the reasons the country has moved to the right is the Cato Institute, which we’re celebrating here.”

— George Will giving the Keynote Address at the dinner for the Cato Institute’s 2006 Milton Friedman Prize for Advancing Liberty

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