I Don't Buy The "Just A Nut" Thing Either

[KingOfLostSouls]

a random nutcase doesn't calmly walk up to people and begin shooting.

the shooter hit people with 20 rounds out of 31


every description says he was calm the entire time


he's smiling in his mug shot.


no, this isn't someone who's just a crack pot. especially if he's been stalking the congresswoman. everyones writing this off to quick as just a crack pot. it's going to be a lot more than that. you don't plan an assassination because someone made you angry. he obviously had some issues but there's gotta be more there. you don't go from zero to 100 without something being there.


you get angry when someone cuts you off in traffic and honk your horn. you get angry when someone talks in a movie theater and ask them to be quiet. you do not get angry and plan an assassination attempt and go on a rampage on a crowd.


there's a reason people are in full damage control mode. something's gonna drop.

[begin_within]

1. Premeditated murder, with a political aspect.

[droidamus2]

2. Another thing

These guys are always labeled as 'loners' after they commit some dastardly deeds. Answer me this, 'what person would come forward after the fact and admit that they were bosom buddies with the guy that just killed a bunch of people?'. If they weren't loners before the deed they certainly will be after.

[KingOfLostSouls]

3. "lone wolves"

how many "lone wolf" incidents do we need to have a pattern yet?

[ZombieHorde]

4. If he is not a nut, then what is he? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Let me tell you of one

who did not use a gun, he used a knife. He stabbed his brother... I stooped counting by 20... he was calm, and from the psych evaluation he didn't know what he did.

So yes it is possible.

But... here is the qualifier. This guy didn't leave love notes behind... nor notes that said... You die BITCH!... or my assassination plan.

So yes, being calm... possible... but unlike this kid who stabbed his brother... he knew what he was doing.

By the way... that young man was actually deemed crazy enough by the courts, and sent to the mental hospital. In this case, the love notes left in the safe, will make that defense next to impossible. But the history may buy him life in prison. (For the record I am against the DP, so that is a good thing in my mind)

Now to patterns... the US does have them... and at this point we must start talking of internal terror, with exactly those words... TERRORISM. It will not happen as long as the perpetrator happens to be white... but that is a whole different discussion,

To the mods... I used the B word in the contest of an ongoing criminal investigation and released material. I am aware of the use on this site.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Columbine and VA Tech, though. How would you classify those situations?

[dkf]

7. Wow you don't think it takes someone who IS nuts to calmly shoot up all those people?

Well that isn't MY idea of normal.

[TBF]

26. You could say that about most criminal acts.

That is why there is a strict standard on what constitutes legal insanity.

[jwirr]

8. We have a lot more to learn about this. The articles on the parents

bring up questions as do the careful planning that went into this right down to saying goodbye to friends online. This man is confusing and most of what we have come up with may have to be adjusted quite a bit before we actually know what went on in his mind. As someone old enough to still wonder about JFK - I hope we get that truth. It is hell wondering every November 22 what really happened way back then.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

9. "a random nutcase doesn't calmly walk up to people and begin shooting."

They don't?

There are dozens of cases of it happening over the years. Charles Whitman. James Huberty. Colin Ferguson. Robert Hawkins.

Mark David Chapman didn't really have a good reason for assassinating John Lennon. And John Hinkley was trying to impress Jodie Foster.

[KingOfLostSouls]

10. what I meant was

that dismissing him as just being insane isn't enough here. like people are just like, "oh he's crazy"

I mean more like, ok so whats driving his psychosis?

whats the motivating force behind it?


why did he pick his specific targets?


in other words, what's the motive. everyones just dismissing his motive as "he's insane."

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. There's a report.....

....that he went to a similar event in 2007 and asked the Congresswoman some obtuse question about "the meaning or words", and he felt she didn't answer it to his liking. He harbored a grudge against her because of it. Crazy people do things like that.

[timtom]

15. I'm sorry, but the Bush-Hinckley relationship is way too close for comfort.

[Fleshdancer]

11. and if his beef was just with Giffords, why open fire on the crowd and then try to reload?

He wasn't just trying to assassinate Rep. Giffords, he was trying to take down as many of her supporters as he could.

I've heard of cases where one person is the target and I've heard of cases where a gunman opens fire on a crowd indiscriminately, but how common is it to do one and then the other?

Maybe this isn't weird. Maybe I'm just ignorant when it comes to shootings in general, but this has been bugging me ever since I got over my initial shock.

[immoderate]

16. He isn't just crazy. He is VERY crazy.

I'll bet his world is as distorted as a fun house mirror.

--imm

[Horse with no Name]

12. This guy is the shell of a man

He has crazy eyes.
You can hide the crazy everywhere but in the eyes.

He was obsessed with the Congresswoman.
No doubt about that.

BUT this man is extremely mentally ill. I don't think there is any doubt.

[mfcorey1]

14. If he had enough sense to invoke his fifth amendment rights, then he is not crazy. nt

[CTyankee]

18. on morning jo dr. sneiderman said that "crazy" people always seem to know how to "lawyer up."

It was a good point that she made...

[Amonester]

17. 15 minutes of fame is not long enough for some twisted egos (nt)

[boppers]

19. Grammar and ontology done fucked him up.

He had a fragile mind, and he was trying to understand things far beyond his level.

That's enough to break a great many souls.

Add in level acceleration (pot, in this case), and most folks get a bit.... weird.

Let's take a crisis question, one he asked Giffords:
"What is government if words have no meaning?"

I get his question, and I understand many possible answers, but to most people, the question is bizarre non-sense.

Here's my answer: "Government is a consensual agreement, often in spite of words, or symbols, or meaning, to reach a shared community, and a shared co-habitation. The words have no meaning, they are just words, but the concepts behind the words are what people share, and agree upon."

[upi402]

21. He picked a helluva way to withdraw his consent to be governed

Yes he was sick and needed a safe place - for many of us obviously. No excusing it, though. And no excusing the rightwing hate mongers who incite violence from this type of person every day.

[boppers]

23. No truth, no value to humans, no mercy.

He is consistent. Fucked up, but consistent.

[RadiationTherapy]

24. "Far beyond his level" - what does that mean?

Really? Studying grammar and ontology can 'break' a 'great many souls'. No.

[boppers]

27. Once words have no meaning, people get confused.

Especially if they thought words had meaning.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Corey_Baker08]

22. I Agree While He Was Mentally Ill He Seems Very Intelligent & Cold & Calculated In His Preparation

and planning of the massacre and there is no doubt in my mind that this was a premeditated thought out well in advance as evidence has shown probably since November 2010 or even earlier when the suspect purchased the weapon. While I am highly convinced that this terrible tragedy is a direct result of but not entirely responsible for the actions and more specifically the words of hate and insinuations of violence by radical conservatives like Palin,Beck,Limbaugh,O'Reilly, and many more especially the tea party followers and supporters who are brainwashed into thinking President Obama is a Socialist not born in this country. The amount of absolute misinformation that people are receiving from Fox News, Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly, and Palin as well as countless others.

It is heartbreaking when the radical words and actions by few turn into a tragedy for our entire nation. It is time somebody holds Fox News and Sarah Palin, and so many others as mentioned above accountable for their actions and actually encouraging and implying violence against individuals they disagree with politically.

[boppers]

25. Corey, can you seek mental health help?

Would that work for you?