The right has no intention of turning down the rhetorical hate. Instead, they will turn it up.

[Stinky The Clown]

I was here for JFK, and every political shooting since then. We can talk about motives elsewhere. This thread is about the aftermath.

This feels very different to me. That may be perspective - I'm a geezer now. But I don't think so.

I really do think this one is different.

[Taverner]

1. Then I'll turn mine up as well....

[safeinOhio]

2. I remember that too. Didn't they end

up with Goldwater because of it?

[Tansy_Gold]

3. This is much more like

the guy who murders his father, mother, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, and then begs for mercy because he's an orphan and has no other family to defend him.

But it is important, too, for us to speak up, and to speak up in places other than the choir loft of DU.

I'm on a discussion board for a hobby of mine and some of the members are getting together in a few weeks at a large annual event in, of all places, Tucson, AZ. A few were lamenting the lack of appropriate facilities for the conference and suggested the city should build a huge convention center (the one they got isn't big enough????) that could then be used for other events during the year. The suggestions were, and I quote,

If there would be 3 - 4 more huge events in Tucson during the "dead" season it would help the hotels to stay in business.
Lets say a solar power and alternative energy show, a Mexican trade show, a gun show (not politacal correct yet), a party convention etc. etc.

Again, the subject of the discussion was not the economy or politics or anything remotely connected, but I did post a response in which I said the comments (posted on 10 January, so well after the events of Saturday) were inappropriate.

Remember, the teabaggers never get off message, never miss an opportunity to get that message across. We need to do the same.


TG, TT

[Denninmi]

4. Yup, and more people will die because of it.

It will happen again, and again, and again.

[moondust]

5. Are they fighting for their hate speech now?

Do they see it as the gubmit trying to take away their "freedom of speech" (violent rhetoric)?

[Cerridwen]

6. I agree.

The question is, what is their purpose for ratcheting up the hate? What is their goal?

pat robertson, pat buchanan, viguerie, mellon scaife, norquist, coulter, limbaugh, et. al. are increasing the volume and the "loaded" language.

palin just came out with the "blood libel" dog whistle which, DU has noted, was found in print the day before being used by other neo-cons. buchanan just came out agreeing with the "blood libel" whistle. It apparently went out to their people. Why?

What is their goal? Does the media know? Is the media complicit? This is far beyond "just politics" and winning elections.

Republicans in AZ are resigning in fear of the teabaggers in their state.

Loughner may or may not have been right, left, center, or whatever; but it is the neo-cons who are using this horrific event to catapult their hatred and violence.

Toward what end?

edited awkward sentence.

[jwirr]

7. Good question? One that desperately needs to be answered.

[Cerridwen]

8. Ideas?

Usually that crowd is about money and having power over others or diversion while they acquire money or power over others.

Gun sales went up in AZ but not in numbers that would make this worthwhile. Diversion? From what? Justification for new legislation creating more of a totalitarian state? An actual shooting civil war? A "holy" war?

Who benefits?

[nc4bo]

10. A clash.

A war, this time internal - one more time perhaps. The ultimate divide and conquer? Could usher in a complete police state? Chaos? Perhaps people would begin to put 2 and 2 together and realize we're nothing but feed cattle.

????

What's to be gained? They'd definitely lose some of their control aka $$$.

Yea - great question, absolutely.

[Cerridwen]

15. Not chaos. Control.

Ultimate control. This crowd doesn't care for ambiguity or nuance. Solly Mack just put up a thread about a study done of conservative versus liberal personalities. Conservatives are extremely uncomfortable with change or nuance. They need binary, black and white. Theirs would be a country of control rather than chaos.

I'm starting to smell the security/military industrial complex and its owners on this one. No. That's not quite it either.

Who the hell benefits?

edit to add link to Solly's thread

[Xenotime]

9. The are a grievously savage and hateful group of people...

You actually thought they would do as they are told?!?

[MindPilot]

11. I agree. It is ramping up everywhere.

The comments section of every news blog is rife with anti-Democratic and liberal-hating vitriol.

It's not the left that needs to tone it down.

[hamsterjill]

13. +1

n/t

[TwilightGardener]

14. I'm glad you said this. Our news station posted an update on Gifford's condition, and

the comments to the story...vile. Unbelievable.

[somone]

12. Palin's message to America: "My toxic rhetoric is here to stay. Deal with it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/palin-defiantly-feeds-the_b_807943.html

Palin Defiantly Feeds the Beast
By Andy Ostroy

...While a shocked nation mourns the loss of so many vibrant people, including a 9-year-old girl, and while it attempts to debate and reconcile why it happened and what measures can be taken to prevented a recurrence, Palin continues to feed the toxic beast. She squandered a major opportunity to not just repair her own image but to help heal a nation. In this video statement, what would it have cost her (and to the contrary she'd likely have much to gain) to say something conciliatory and uniting like she recognizes that words and actions may sometimes be deemed offensive and irresponsible to some people and that now, especially in the wake of the Tucson shooting, she understands the need for everyone, including herself, to demonstrate greater sensitivity and be much more judicious in choosing the words and images to punctuate political points? Wouldn't this have been a more thoughtful and prudent strategy? Would people not be rallying behind her instead of continuing to criticize her?

Palin could've used the Tucson tragedy as a mechanism to chart a new, more effective course for herself. Instead, her message to America is, 'My toxic rhetoric is here to stay. Deal with it.'

[BrklynLiberal]

16. There have been several interesting posts supporting your theory, including the

most quoted and reposted from DailyKos:

Well worth reading, bookmarking, printing, remembering and spreading far and wide. It will appear quite prescient sometime in the future.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/10/934890/-Stochastic-Terrorism:-Triggering-the-shooters.

Stochastic Terrorism: Triggering the shooters.

Stochastic terrorism is the use of mass communications to stir up random lone wolves to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.

This is what occurs when Bin Laden releases a video that stirs random extremists halfway around the globe to commit a bombing or shooting.

This is also the term for what Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, and others do. And this is what led directly and predictably to a number of cases of ideologically-motivated murder similar to the Tucson shootings.

<snip>

Here's the mechanism spelled out concisely:

The stochastic terrorist is the person who uses mass media to broadcast memes that incite unstable people to commit violent acts.

One or more unstable people responds to the incitement by becoming a lone wolf and committing a violent act. While their action may have been statistically predictable (e.g. "given the provocation, someone will probably do such-and-such"), the specific person and the specific act are not predictable (yet).

The stochastic terrorist then has plausible deniability: "Oh, it was just a lone nut, nobody could have predicted he would do that, and I'm not responsible for what people in my audience do."

The lone wolf who was the "missile" gets captured and sentenced to life in prison, while the stochastic terrorist keeps his prime time slot and goes on to incite more lone wolves.

Further, the stochastic terrorist may be acting either negligently or deliberately, or may be in complete denial of their impact, just like a drunk driver who runs over a pedestrian without even realizing it.

Finally, there is no conspiracy here: merely the twisted acts of individuals who are promoting extremism, who get access to national media in which to do it, and the rest follows naturally just as an increase in violent storms follows from an increase in average global temperature.

<snip>

Thanks to backscatter712 for bringing this to my attention...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=170870

[unblock]

18. stochastic terrorism! that's it!

that's exactly what it is. just like how you can't prove that any particular cigarette caused any particular cancer, but you can use statistics to get a demonstrable outcome.

shit-stirrers can't be tied to any particular act of violence, but they can stir shit knowing full well that it's going to increase violence.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. Exactly! They spread hate, and claim plausible deniablility for the results.

Considering the consistency of the messages from all the RW talking heads, it is impossible to believe it is not part of an agenda that has been laid out in excruciating details.

The are all part of the repuke version of the Borg Collective.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=183613&mesg_id=184370

[unblock]

20. but unlike the borg, they have a voice.

oy, do they have a voice!

[BrklynLiberal]

22. ...yep.

:scared:

[Cerridwen]

23. Excuse me for buttin' in, but I just watched "First Contact" the other

day (for the *mumble* *mumble* time).

The borg leader was a female who used her (ewwww) sexuality in an attempt to control Picard and Data.

[unblock]

26. yes, i'm not sure they ever explained why she wasn't a suitable "voice"

for some reason they needed picard as "locutus".

maybe the borg leader was effective at internal communication and talking to picard or data but wasn't effective as a external, warship- (warcube-?) commanding voice.

[Cerridwen]

28. Meh. Or maybe Zefram Cochrane getting drunk, wiggin' out and

pissing on trees wasn't entertaining enough so the writers created a "sexy" borg. Or Seven of Mine wasn't available or they couldn't blend the stories or they needed a female temptress and Troi and Chrusher were too wholesome?old?familiar?

I thought the reason for Picard/Locutus was because he was a leader in the Federation as well as human and could, as human, serve as liaison and put a friendly, trusted face on the borg; something a "pure" borg couldn't achieve.

I still think the borg queen was a made for the movie sex-pot. I don't want to see what testing they did to get that idea. Ewwww.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. You're exactly right.

I said that, more inartfully, the day the shooting happened. The "reasonable" people who wanted some direct link to the right shouted me down.

There will *never* be a direct link to the right - or any other group. They spew what they spew to an unknown, but very specific audience - as this article says, the lone wolf nut job.

I said the shooter was either a willing tool (not likely) or a useful idiot. It appears more and more as if he is a useful idiot. I said this an was chastised for the term useful idiot - which actually has an actual meaning, quite apart from mental health.

Anyway, thanks for posting that.

Stochastic Terrorism.

I shall remember that.

[BrklynLiberal]

27. Sadly, I am afraid we will be hearing more and more about Stochastic Terrorism..

Coincidently, the term was used last night on "NCIS:LA"...My jaw dropped.. I had never heard of it all until two days ago. I had to look it up when I first read it..and there it was being used on TV!!!! If I had not read it and looked it up just hours earlier, I probably would not even have understood what they were saying, much less understand what it meant. I would bet the vast majority of viewers had not idea what it meant.

[DainBramaged]

17. They are sick fucks, period. No excuse. They want a war with the Left

They think becasue they have the guns they win, typical Reich-wing mentality.

Sick fucks.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. well it has actually united the Big Warring Factions on this board

because we all recognize that there is a serious common threat to each and every one of us. Yes this is disturbingly different.

[hfojvt]

25. what does the left intend to do?

We already have an answer from the discussion here. We didn't start the fire, but we are gonna carry and use flamer throwers and napalm.

"The nonviolent resister would contend that in the struggle for human dignity, the oppressed people of the world must not succumb to the temptation of becoming bitter or indulging in hate campaigns. To retaliate in kind would do nothing but intensify the existence of hate in the universe. Along the way of life, someone must have sense enough and morality enough to cut off the chain of hate." "Stride ..." p 104

[Stinky The Clown]

29. A part of me is a gun control supporter. A part of me is anxious to do as you suggest

What will the left do?

I don't even know what I want them to do, let alone what they *will* do.

[Fumesucker]

30. There is no "The left"..

If there's one thing DU should show us it is that "the left" is nothing if not diverse in opinion.