No pregnant women allowed - Pregnant Woman Kicked Out of Bar

[RamboLiberal]

When Michelle Lee, 29, walked into her hometown bar in Roselle, Illinois, late last Thursday night she was feeling frumpy, tired and really, really big. Eight months pregnant with her first child, she'd flown into town that day from Denver to attend her baby shower and her friends had talked her into a night out. But her effort at late-night fun lasted a whopping 15 minutes. No sooner than Lee had arrived, a bouncer at the the Coach House Restaurant told her she had to leave; no pregnant women allowed.

"I was stunned," she said. "He said, 'If anything happened to you here, we would be responsible.'"

Lee said she was near the bar sipping water with a friend who'd ordered shots when a bouncer approached her and told her she needed to follow him.

"It was a bunch of malarkey really," she said, recalling the bouncer's comments. "He said to me, 'I have a personal question to ask you, are you pregnant?' I said yes. Then he said, 'I'm going to have to ask you to leave.'"

Lee said she was totally humiliated by the incident and agreed to go home without argument. "I thought maybe there was some sort of pregnant woman ordinance."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/pregnant-lady-turned-illinois-bar/story?id=12600511

She said he asked her to leave shortly after midnight Thursday, telling her the bar would be liable if anything happened to her. She complied, but grew angrier over the weekend, questioning whether she had been discriminated against as a pregnant woman.

"He just said, if anything happens, if a fight breaks out and you get hurt, we are responsible," Lee said. "That can happen anywhere. If I am going somewhere, I am taking responsibility."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-11/news/ct-met-pregnant-woman-in-bar-20110111_1_pregnant-woman-bar-pregnant-person


Michelle Lee, 29, says she was only drinking water at a bar near Roselle when a bouncer kicked her out because she was pregnant. Legal experts contacted by the Tribune said bars can't discriminate against pregnant women. (Benjamin Chernivsky, Photo for the Tribune / January 11, 2011)


Unbelievable!

On review they apparently don't have a website but here is some comments by locals: http://www.yelp.com/biz/coach-house-roselle

[Book Lover]

1. Glad to know the story's getting air time

Yeah, we're so holy and precious when we're pregnant.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Craziness.

Sounds to me as though they're taking a their percieved liability a little too personally.

:shrug:

[HockeyMom]

3. I got one better

When I was pg with my first daughter 30 years ago, I went to a coffee shop and ordered bacon and eggs, and coffee. No only did I get dirty looks for drinking COFFEE, I had some jerk tell me I should be drinking MILK instead of coffee, and bacon was bad too, and that was "abusing" my baby. I turned around and said so throw me in jail for child abuse.

[etherealtruth]

100. It amazed me the number of people that believed I surrendered ...

... autonomy when I was pregnant.

A good rule of thumb ... if you would not walk up to a 220lb 6'2" man (that is a stranger) and comment on the behavior/ choice .... you really should not feel that you can say it to a pregnant woman

Sorry people, pregnant women do not surrender their rights when pregnant

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

4. why so unbelievable - the smokers were kicked out awhile back

The owner has the right to refuse service to anyone, drinking during pregnancy is bad for the child. The owner maybe taking a stand to avoid being sued later.

Yes, I know I will probably get pounded over this but....

[RamboLiberal]

7. Illegal to deny service if not intoxicated

Under state law, bars are required to post a sign that states: "According to the Surgeon General, women should not drink alcoholic beverages during pregnancy because of the risk of birth defects."

In Illinois, it is illegal to serve a guest who shows signs of intoxication, but it can also be illegal to deny service to a woman just because she is pregnant, said Sheila O'Grady, president of the Chicago-based Illinois Restaurant Association, which offers training on responsible alcohol service.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-11/news/ct-met-pregnant-woman-in-bar-20110111_1_pregnant-woman-bar-pregnant-person

BTW she is also African-American.

[enlightenment]

10. Well, yeah . . . but since she wasn't ejecting for drinking,

you're a little off base. She was drinking water (and at eight months, she could have knocked back a couple of shots without harming the fetus).

[Angry Dragon]

13. In the OP it said she was drinking water

What if a unpregnant man got hurt from a fight that he was not involved in??
Sounds like they should not let anyone into that bar.

[WinkyDink]

27. Have you heard of the Civil Rights Movement?

[Codeine]

35. Smokers weren't kicked out at all.

California bars have plenty of smokers in them; they just have to smoke outside.

[liberalhistorian]

45. Except that she wasn't drinking and hadn't asked for

any drinks. People CAN go to bars and not drink, you know.

Why don't we just assign each pregnant woman her own personal government monitor to follow her around everywhere and monitor everything she does to make sure she doesn't eat, drink or do anything that could even possibly cause the slightest harm to the baby; why don't we just put a GPS and ankle bracelet on her? Sheesh.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalhistorian]

54. The owner can and should be sued for

violation of pregnancy discrimination laws. I wonder how he'll like those apples?

[northzax]

93. not at all

she wasn't a paying customer. (she was drinking water). no business is required to accommodate non=paying customers.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Yes, and who better to smoke around, than pregnant women.

No, sorry, your being forced to go to the curb before lighting up a turdboro isn't the same thing.

[blueamy66]

69. I agree.

There are just tooooo many lawsuits out there these days.

[Shagbark Hickory]

5. Makes sense. nt

[JI7]

11. how does it make sense ?

[Shagbark Hickory]

18. Too risky.

Woman may suffer some problem and say it was the bars fault.
Get sued a couple times. It'll make more sense to you then.

[cynatnite]

20. Bars get sued all the time by NON pregnant people..didn't you know that? n/t

[blueamy66]

70. Why would a bar owner

want to add another lawsuit to their lists?

[cynatnite]

79. If they've got liability insurance it doesn't matter...

whether it's a pregnant woman getting knocked over during a fight or a drunk slipping on a wet spot on the floor.

[WinkyDink]

28. Ridiculous. Absolutely stupid.

[Shagbark Hickory]

29. Thanks for being so respectful of my opinion.

[WinkyDink]

44. I don't worship at the "all opinions are worthy of respect" altar.

[Shagbark Hickory]

49. Evidently you don't think the rules of the forum are worthy of respect either.

[liberalhistorian]

46. You're not respectul of the rights of pregnant women.

Pregnant women don't hand their rights in at the door of the doctor's office after getting their test results. Using your logic, pregnant women should just stay confined to their homes under lock and key for nine months. How very....17th century. Fuck that.

And using your logic they shouldn't let anyone into the bar, 'cause things can happen to anyone at any time. Shit, let's just all stay home under lock and key 24/7. Right.

[Shagbark Hickory]

50. What about the rights of people under 21 or 18 who often are not allowed into bars?

There is nothing unreasonable about not allowing pregnant women into a place where their safety may be compromised.

If I didn't respect their rights, I'd open a nude pregnant woman alligator wrestling ranch.

[liberalhistorian]

52. Then you might as well not allow them ANYWHERE during

pregnancy, 'cause their "safety can be compromised" ANYWHERE. PERIOD. I've been pregnant, I know. And you know what? It ain't up to you to decide for a pregnant woman what is a reasonable place for them to be. It just ain't. Why don't you try trusting them enough to make their own damn decisions? They aren't helpless little girls who need paternalistic guidance.

And I've never seen a brawl or fight in a bar, frankly. I've seen them at parties, get-togethers, in public parking lots. But not in bars, because they usually keep a very tight control on their patrons and are alert for any beginning signs of trouble.

[Shagbark Hickory]

72. So you have a problem with Disney World too, keeping Pr. Wm. off Roller Coasters?

Like I said, there is nothing wrong or discriminatory, in my opinion, about taking reasonable steps to bar access to a potentially hazardous establishment by persons who may become injured there. It is common knowledge that certain things can be harmful to pregnant women and evidently some of those things are present at this establishment.

[AnneD]

84. Lets inject a little reality here....

From what I remember about my embeology class-the first 4 weeksare some of the most critical because the foundations for the body systems are being laid down. Most women don't know or suspect they are pregnant until after they miss their period....at the end of this critical time. As once comedian noted, if it weren't for alchol, there would be fewer pregnancies.

So following your argument to it's logical conclusion, any woman of child bearing age should be banned from bars. And what about potentially hazardous establishment like....WORK.

I am a Nurse. I noticed the hospital did not cut me any slack and I promise I was exposed to thing more harmful than alchol. It was my fellow Nurses that would give me lighter paitent loads and would not want me to care for certain patients. The hospital didn't give a rats ass, otherwise I would have had a paid maternity leave from the minute I knew.

I agree with the poster that said my rights do not end when I step out of the obgyn's office. Nothing chapped my ass more than ignorate chuckle heads telling me what I should and shouldn't due. I had I drink a week at most when I was pregnant. I looked so foreward as that was one night I knew that baby and I would get a good night's sleep. I had sharp words with buttinski waiters and people when I had my weekly 'tonic'.

For goodness sake...what happened to just going up to the poor pregnant woman and congradulating her. It is stressful enough having a child. Don't heap on the guilt on top of it all. Let the pregnant mom make the choices. Believe me, if there is a lawsuit, drug and alcohol abuse will come to light.

By the way, I gave birth to a very healthy, beautiful baby girl. I don't know her IQ, but I know it is up there. She went to HSPVA (Houston's Fame HS) and is finishing up at Cal Arts with a degree in Music Tech and Science. She is the least stressed most centered person you will ever meet. If I

[antigone382]

65. Until the age of eighteen they are not LEGAL ADULTS with full rights and privileges of adulthood.

A legally adult pregnant woman doesn't need someone else deciding what is safe for her, and should be allowed anywhere other legal adults are allowed to go. You are suggesting that it is acceptable to take away the autonomy of pregnant women for their safety, as if they are unable to determine what is safe for themselves. This is not the Wild West.

[Shagbark Hickory]

73. MAny bars bar access to younger adults. I used to think that was discriminatory until

I crossed the threshold into majorly adult.

In this case, pregnant women potentially face injury in the establishment, it's not the same as a bunch of annoying college kids mingling with older people.

[jtown1123]

88. Wow, you are so wrong. It's illegal for people under 21 to drink. Not pregnant ladies.

By your reasoning, they could discriminate on age as well. Hey you oldie, you might have a heart attack in my bar, no drinks for you.

Ever heard of the Constitution? It's been ruled time and time again you cannot treat ladies differently because they are pregnant.

[WolverineDG]

106. so every woman has to pee on a stick first before entering a bar?

:eyes:

dg

[PassingFair]

42. You're right, pregnant women should be rounded up and put in camps....

for their own good.

From conception.

:wtf:

[Shagbark Hickory]

75. Why don't you take it up with the hospitals that put them in their own WARD.

You know... For their own protection.

[sarge43]

82. Cost of doing business, especially a bar. Not exactly a low risk environment

People can and do sue for anything.

Bar owner going to run medical checks on every customer? The guy with the heart condition gets caught in the middle of a fight, has a MI and sues the bar owner. Bar owner going to refuse service to any woman under the age of 50 because she might be pregnant? The first trimester (no bump yet) is the most likely time for a miscarriage and other medical disasters.

[jtown1123]

87. That's absurd. This is a civil rights issue. Denying people entrance because of pregnancy is discrim

[CommonSensePLZ]

98. No, it's a health, liability and common sense issue and a pregnant person doesn't need

The temptation or to be in an area of increased likelihood of people who might not be in their right minds because of alcohol.

Would it be discrimination if a minor was thrown out even if they didn't intend to have alcohol, even if they were with their parents?

[CommonSensePLZ]

97. She better have been the designated driver

What's she even doing in a bar knowing she's pregnant? She's a grown woman, if she wants to hang out with whoever she should use sense and do it in a better environment.

[seabeyond]

31. then i guess no business should allow a preg lady in. if after all, they are responsible

as they would be for all people in their bar

nope

not making any sense to me

[harun]

91. I agree, pregnant women shouldn't be around intoxicated people for

the protection of the baby.

[seabeyond]

99. so... no christmas party or summer bbq? no office party? no weddings? hm thinking that one thru

[SoCalNative]

6. And if something would have happened to her in there

I'll bet she'd have made a dash to her lawyer's office to sue the bar.

Some people truly lack common sense. It's a bar. If there would have been a drunken brawl and she was injured, causing injury or worse to her baby, what would she have done then?

[RamboLiberal]

9. Oh good grief - sometimes RW'ers are right about the nanny state

[guitar man]

17. a lot of us left wingers

...don't care much for a nanny state either ;)

[krabigirl]

62. +1

[liberalhistorian]

48. No shit.

This shit drives me crazy. And having been pregnant myself, I well know how differently you're looked at by almost everyone everywhere.

[TorchTheWitch]

68. this isn't about "nanny state" because the state isn't involved

Instead of being a nanny state and making laws as to who can do what and where the law stays out of it and allows the owners of private businesses to refuse service to anyone except those in protected classes like race and gender. Pregnant women aren't part of one of those protected classes. This is why bars/clubs/restaurants can eject anyone they want for reasons as insignificant as not wearing certain attire or wearing prohibited attire. Frankly, this instance is an example of NON-nanny statism.

I see a whole lot more legitimate reason for this very pregnant woman being ejected from the bar than some dude not wearing a tie.

[cynatnite]

12. Plenty of people have sued bars for things that happened to them...

and they weren't pregnant.

[pinboy3niner]

63. Exactly

She presents no greater liability risk than a male patron who is subject to to heart attack from stress or excitement, or any patron having a medical condition which makes him or her more susceptible to injury or death. They're not screened for liability risk.

By the bar's reasoning, pregnant women can't be allowed to go ANYWHERE, not even to a local grocery store (especially when a congressional Rep. is holding a political event).

The policy is sexist--it discriminates on the basis of sex, and that is illegal.

[RainDog]

14. she should just stay home in her bare feet - cause if she walked down the street

someone might run over her in a car, too.

She is an adult. She was drinking water and minding her own business.

What a DISGUSTING remark for you to make to assume she would try to sue when NOTHING she did indicated this.

honestly. repulsive.

[WinkyDink]

26. Don't be daft.

[Shagbark Hickory]

30. I agree! Plus I like when a bar owner thinks outside the box.

[seabeyond]

33. no airplane, no driving, no walking a sidewalk, no restaraunt.... nt

[Luminous Animal]

39. I've seen more brawls on a city bus than I've seen in bars.

[seabeyond]

53. silly, huh. lol. nt

[darkstar3]

56. One point:

CAN you fly during the 8th month of pregnancy? I really thought you couldn't...

[Foo Fighter]

109. Well hell, Palin flew from Texas to Alaska after her water broke.

Or so she says.

[liberalhistorian]

47. The way that bar owner thinks, he's lucky he has

any customers at all. What's next, refusing entry to anyone who may appear even slightly disabled? Or too old? Or not "strong" enough? What utter horseshit. Maybe we should just all stay home under lock and key 24/7. Then idiot business owners like this one wouldn't have to worry about "something happening" to any customer now, would they?

Oh, and newsflash-pregnancy discrimination has been ILLEGAL for over thirty years now, as it good and damn well should be. The bar owner can be sued for pregnancy discrimination, and maybe damn well should be.

[darkstar3]

60. I don't think he CAN be sued.

Private establishments "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", right?

That's the sign I see everywhere...

[tammywammy]

81. Pregnancy anti-discrimination laws are regarding employment.

I doubt this bar owner could be successfully sued, as it's a private business.

[Caretha]

101. Tell you what

when you can get pregnant get back to us. Until then, it's none of your business. It's non of your business if a woman has an abortion or she has a drink.

Neither is illegal, and it is not any of your business.

[seabeyond]

32. really, must be all men saying this. pregnant isnt infirmed.... nt

[Luminous Animal]

38. Anybody, pregnant or not can get hurt in a bar brawl and sue.

A pregnant woman (or anybody) can get assaulted on a bus. Would you advocate they stay at home? In fact, given that a bar has bouncers that look for potential trouble and nip it in the bud, she's probably safer there.

As an aside, what kind of bars do you hang out in? I've not seen a drunken bar brawl in my 37 years of drinking regularly in bars from the east coast to the west.

[Angry Dragon]

80. I had a fight break out right next to me

First time I was ever in the bar
and I was not pregnant

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Jesus, you people hang out in some shitty bars.

I'm envisioning something like this:



Even back in my dive drinking days, there was usually some stocky welsh owner who no one wanted to fuck with.

[PassingFair]

76. Are you proposing that bars should ban pregnant women altogether?

Or just that it is OK to ban pregnant
women from entering certain establishments.

Will the doormen hand out pregnancy tests?

[zazen]

8. pregnant women are the Vestal Virgins of the modern western world

Your behavior when pregnant is subject to others admonition and control. People get some weird collective reassurance from the purity of pregnant women.

I get that society has a vested interest in fetuses not being given crack or heroin and thus inflicting millions in healthcare costs and heartbreak on others, most of all the innocent child. But the obsession with pregnant women's purity goes far beyond that.

I'm glad I had the experience of two pregnancies, and am glad I'm past it. You younger folks have my sympathy.

[mrs_p]

15. gee - i wouldn't be allowed to go anywhere with my friends, then

as we are in a college town and the pubs are where we go out for dinner.

[Cerridwen]

16. I wish I understood what it was about pregnancy that makes

other people so fucking stupid and invasive. I've seen total strangers walk up and "pet" a woman's pregnant belly; I've heard total strangers "offer" the most insulting advice to pregnant women.

Pregnant women aren't public property, fer fuck's sake.

/rant

[seabeyond]

34. their men. they never have been. they dont get it. as far as i can figure. nt

[BlueJazz]

19. Someone should put a sign up outside the Bar>>

"Your Mother was not good enough to walk into this Bar"

[Mojeoux]

21. What if she just lied and said "I'm Just Fat, how RUDE of you!!!"

Honestly, how many bar brawls have y'all witnessed, or started?

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

22. Now, that would have been funny !

[BlueJazz]

43. I played in Bands for years...some nice places and some..ah..Shitholes...

:)
In all of that I only saw 2 fights and they were short lived and very late at night. (1-2 AM)

[TorchTheWitch]

71. witnessed more than I can count

I've worked in bars for years some better than others as far as general behavior of customers go. There's a very good reason that most bars have bouncers in the first place.

It isn't just bar fights that's at issue here either. Quite a number of bars - maybe even most - it's common for there to be crowded rough behavior that has nothing to do with fighting. Twice I've been injured as a bystander in situations where there wasn't any fight at all but clumsy tipsy behavior or energetic dancing - in one situation I had my nose broken and in the other sprained my ankle just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I didn't sue in either situation because neither injury required anything more than a doctor's visit which in both cases was at the time covered under the health insurance I used to have. Had I needed any medical attention that required any out of pocket expense or loss of work, damn bloody right I'd sue the bar as would pretty much anyone else.

[Norrin Radd]

23. Damn it!

How am I supposed to pick up pregnant women now? :evilgrin:

[cynatnite]

25. Go to a hospital OB ward, you perv...

:rofl:

[WinkyDink]

24. Couldn't she just eat the free peanuts?

[seabeyond]

36. she couldnt even drink water, lol. might get hurt.... bah haha. nt

[Ilsa]

37. "Am I pregnant? None of your damn business."

She could be five months pregnant andi bet the bouncer wouldn't have known.

[RB TexLa]

40. No one in America, citizen or not ever has to answer any medical question asked of them.

[LuvNewcastle]

41. I worked in the service industry for

many years, most of that time in casinos and bars. I worked with some people who wouldn't serve pregnant women alcohol, but I always did. A woman's body is her own. If she wants to have a couple of glasses of wine or a beer, that's her business. It is up to the woman to decide what's best for herself and the fetus. I would never serve a pregnant woman to the point of drunkenness, but I was never asked to. All the pregnant women I have ever served drank moderately. I'm no doctor, but I think a little wine or beer might even be beneficial to a pregnant woman if it helps her relax and take her mind off her condition for a little while.

[seabeyond]

55. actually the new thing is a glass of wine good, i never did it. but i have issue with alcohol. BUT

this woman just wanted water. lol.

[shimmergal]

77. Thanks so much for your

post. It brings some sense to an issue we've gone overboard on. If _any_ alcohol is a danger to pregnant women, or their fetuses, why don't France and Italy have sky-high rates of mental retardation? And what about pregnant women going to church where communion involves a sip of wine? This "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality makes pregnancy seem like a prison sentence.

I'm so glad I had my children back in the day when the thinking was different! Not that I drank much then, or ever. But at least there weren't all those "thou shalt nots" hanging over my head.

[LisaL]

89. Ever heard of fetal alcohol syndrome?

Prevalence is ~1 case per 1,000 of live births in the Western world. I wouldn't call that a minor problem.
"Fetal alcohol syndrome, or FAS, is a collection of mental and physical defects that can occur in an unborn child if the mother consumes alcohol during pregnancy. It’s the leading known cause of mental disability in the Western world, with a prevalence rate of roughly one case per 1,000 live births."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/04/thinking-of-getting-pregnant-dont-drink/

[AnneD]

96. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...

One case per 1000. One baby had it and 999 babies didn't. OMG, we have an epidemic.

One in 18 people is an alcoholic in this country. I am no math wiz but that means that 55 people in one thousand are alcoholics. I think the moms are doing well.

Take a chill pill and let the mom to be have an occasional drink. It is the heavy drinking in a short time that causes the FAS, and frankly I can't remember ever seeing a pregnant woman do shots to the point of passing out. :eyes:

[LisaL]

102. You have got to be kidding.

FAS is the leading known cause of mental retardation in North America. How would you like to be that baby?

[etherealtruth]

103. Actually, the leading cause of mental retardation is unknown

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Mental-retardation.html


"The three most common causes of mental retardation, accounting for about 30% of cases, are Down syndrome, fragile X, and fetal alcohol syndrome."


In about 40% of cases, the cause of mental retardation cannot be found. Biological and environmental factors that can cause mental retardation include:


"About 30% of cases of mental retardation is caused by hereditary factors. Mental retardation may be caused by an inherited genetic abnormality, such as fragile X syndrome. Fragile X, a defect in the chromosome that determines sex, is the most common inherited cause of mental retardation."

No one is encouraging women to drink large quantities of alcohol, or drink alcohol with any frequency ... the truth is in Europe there are not the prohibitions against all alcohol consumption that we have here (and the stats for impairment are similar).

at no point does a women become anything less than an autonomous adult ... pregnant or not.

By the way, I rarely drink and never drink more than one when I do. I didn't drink any alcohol during any of my pregnancies

[LisaL]

104. Pardon me. One of the most common causes then.

But unlike Down syndrome or fragile X, FAS is preventable.

[etherealtruth]

107. Facts (when they are facts) are fun

No one has insinuated pregnant women should drink heavily.

Compare the epidemiology of mental retardation between Europe and the U.S .... all industrialized nations come out the same. The rates of mental retardation increase when prenatal care is not available (attributable to things like maternal hypertension/ pre-eclampsia and poor maternal nutrition).

Fetal alcohol syndrome is a terrible thing ... but, a drink in the third trimester WILL NOT cause this.

The largest concern for maternal and child health is lack of prenatal care.

[AnneD]

108. Bingo......

Give the winner a cigar...uh bubble gum cigar that is. I can't understand all the fuss about drinking in moderation during pregnancy. If abstinence is to preserve brain function, what is the point. From some of the irrational posts, that organ is not used used much anyway.:eyes:

[LisaL]

110. FAS is preventable, unlike Down syndrome or fragile X syndrome.

Do you know how much alcohol is safe vs. the amount that would cause FAS?

[AnneD]

113. Took Genetics...

Embryology, and helped do early gene mapping in college. Helped do blood draws at the local state school. Saw and mapped more genetic anomalies than 95% of the population. The Human Genome project was new then.

Without going into too much detail, the liver can process alcohol (some ethnicities have less of this enzyme than others but we all have some). If the woman drinks in moderation say one serving with dinner, the alcohol is chemically processed, just like her dinner. No harm done. A pregnant woman can have one drink every day and be fine. A pregnant woman cannot have seven drinks in one day (my pregnant woman drinking shots analogy).

The danger comes when the woman drinks more alcohol than her liver can safely process. The alcohol level rises in the mother blood system and crosses into the fetal blood stream. That is when you can cause fetal distress.

I would rather a woman feel comfortable enough to tell me she drinks with meals so we can safely accommodate her than her feeling pressured to lie and tell me she doesn't drink. And it is these holier than thou people treating her uterus like it is public property that is responsible for women to be secretive on this subject. People that form an opinion before they know the facts are just plain ignorant.

I never let the fact that I was pregnant stop me from having a drink if I wanted. I had one drink a week generally as as I said earlier, the only effects were that baby and I have a good nights sleep. She turned out just fine, better than fine actually. We drank wine with our meals and I had more of a European attitude. She had small amounts of diluted wine on occasions as a kid and graduated to small amounts of full strength drinks as a teen. The pay offs were great. While some parents worried about their teenager getting drunk and driving, my daughter always volunteered to be the designated driver. More than one time she saved a drunk friend's life by driving them home. She said that she was never tempted to over drink or even drink sometimes because "the mystery" was not there-she grew up around it. I would rather have a balanced talk and responsible actions than preach hysteria. It doesn't take in to account real human nature.

Does that answer your question?

[Mushroom]

57. OMG He bounced a pregnant woman?

There's never ever been a pregnant woman in that restaurant before? Something's weird. Maybe he has territorial issues. He certainly lacks in the sense of direction department.

[kath]

58. Oh, she's black?? I see now...

[darkstar3]

59. This was a cover IMHO.

Pregnant women aren't supposed to drink, just like people under age 21. Any bar that allows people between the ages of 18 and 21 generally charges a cover for them because they won't be purchasing any alcohol, but how do you charge a cover for a pregnant adult without seeming like a total jackass?

No, I'll bet this was a convenient excuse for the real policy, which is "if you're not gonna drink, get your ass outta my bar."

[Liquorice]

61. In Europe it's common for pregnant women to drink a little; Drinking a glass of wine

is not dangerous to a fetus. It's only if a woman repeatedly gets rip-roaring drunk that there would be problems. They've got women in America so terrified of consuming any alcohol while pregnant that they won't even eat salad dressing with some alcohol in it. It's ridiculous.

I mean think about it; if it were true that any amount of alcohol would harm a fetus, millions of people would have fetal alcohol syndrome because a lot of conceptions occur after a night of partying. And many women drink a lot before they find out they're pregnant.

[darkstar3]

83. Which is entirely beside my point.

The Surgeon General tells pregnant women they shouldn't drink alcohol, as does a large and judgmental part of public society. Ergo, as you point out, a large majority of pregnant women in this country, whether for good reason or not, don't drink. Bars don't like people who don't drink, and will find an excuse to extract money from them or kick them out.

[Liquorice]

92. I know that wasn't your main point, but you did say that pregnant women "aren't supposed to drink,"

and that made me start thinking about how stupid the propaganda against all alcohol while pregnant is in this country.

[Hippo_Tron]

85. She brought several female friends with her

If they wanted to maximize the amount of drinking customers they should probably not have kicked her out, knowing her friends would go with her. Additionally, bars generally want to maximize the amount of drinking female customers so that's an additional reason why I don't understand this.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

78. Because, of course, no-one goes to a bar or pub except to drink alcohol.

I'm teetotal; I spend a lot of time sitting around in pubs with my friends because it's a good place to go to sit, especially in the evening after something else has finished.

Extrapolating from "pregnant women shouldn't drink alcohol" to "pregnant women shouldn't go into places that serve alcohol" strikes me as foolish.

[snooper2]

74. This is better than a circumcision thread

not quite at the level of a pit bull thread, but getting close!

Greatness! A new one for the list :rofl:

[madmom]

86. I think the real reason she was kicked out is because she was drinking water, NOT spending money!

[TorchTheWitch]

90. I never buy alcohol at a bar or allow anyone to buy it for me

Bars don't kick people out for not purchasing alcohol. Just doesn't happen. Bars WANT warm bodies in the bar because the more warm bodies the more likely people will stay. Nothing chases away customers like not enough warm bodies in the bar. They don't care if you aren't purchasing alcohol and are perfectly happy for you to be there taking up space to help provide "atmosphere" in order to encourage the alcohol purchasing customers to stay. It's bars that encouraged the designated driver buddy system after all, and many provide free non-alcoholic beverages for non-alcohol purchasing customers acting as designated drivers in order to encourage the behavior.

I think she was kicked out for the reason given. If this was a crowded unruly type of bar I think they made a reasonable choice. Seeing as a bar can kick you out for not wearing a tie or for wearing jeans or any other reason other than those reasons associated with protected classes, I'm not seeing what the big deal is here. Private businesses are allowed to decide who to allow on their premises, and it tends to work out well that way. Frankly, after working in and socializing in bars for years they generally don't kick out nearly enough people.

[madmom]

94. I beg to differ. I was kicked out because all I was drinking was "the free coffee". I was

the designated driver, I don't drink pop (not free) they didn't like it, I was asked to leave "so people with money" could have my seat. It DOES happen.

[Liquorice]

95. That's very unusual behavior from my experiences. Designated drivers are

treated like royalty in the bars I've been to--they are almost always given all the free non-alcoholic drinks they want and celebrated for doing the responsible thing.

[TorchTheWitch]

111. isolated incident that is BAD business and not common

And the issue probably had more to do with your drinking coffee in a crowded bar where a non-spending customer was taking up a seat when a purchasing one had to stand. Even still, it's REALLY bad business. Since you were the designated driver the bar was not just losing you, a non-paying customer, but at least one other alcohol purchasing one. Only a total imbicile would have chosen to throw you out and it probably wasn't the manager since management already offered "the free coffee" and that's offered for designated drivers (and sometimes sobering up customers when necessary).

The point being, it's never a bar POLICY to throw out non-alcohol drinking customers ESPECIALLY designated drivers, and your isolated incident probably had a lot more to do with a disgruntled bar worker that management would have been pissed off at for tossing you out. After all, there's a REASON they even HAVE that free coffee offer, and tossing you out as the designated driver meant they were losing at least one alcohol purchasing customer.

[madmom]

112. Actually it wasn't a crowded bar, it was on a Saturday afternoon. I was there with a

group of about 6, I was secretary for of pool shooting team and it was during a match. The "lady" that kicked me out was the owner/manager's wife. The only reason she kicked me out was ..our team was playing her team and I called a foul on her and she didn't like it. She is/was a win at any price kinda person. But the point is/was it still does happen.

[TorchTheWitch]

114. except in your case it didn't happen because you weren't drinking alcohol

You admit yourself that the person who kicked you out did it for personal reasons and used the EXCUSE of your not drinking alcohol to do it. Your experience has nothing at all to do with your not being an alcohol purchasing customer which is what was being discussed in the subthread. So even your isolated incident doesn't count because you admit yourself you weren't REALLY thrown out because you weren't purchasing alcohol.

[Taverner]

105. And the war on free will continues!