HCR mandate unconstitutional?

[abelenkpe]

I hear this all the time from my tea party relatives and friends. They rant on and on about how their freedom is taken away from them because they are being forced to purchase health insurance. They ofter bring up car insurance and say no one is forced to have a car, blah blah blah. (Clearly they don't live in los angeles but I'll give them that one.) Then they usually rant on about personal freedom and say they are livid that someone is forcing them to purchase insurance just because they are alive.

Yes, they are alive. Funny, cause I have yet to meet a living human being who never required health care. No one can choose to never have to see a doctor can they?

So I don't get it. Tea partiers also like to rant and rave about personal responsibility but they want to be able to choose to not purchase insurance for health care? Do they think they should get it for free?

I have one friend with a family who I asked: "Are you saying that given the choice between purchasing health care for your family and not buying any you would choose to not buy any?" He says: "No, I would buy insurance." So then I said: "So given that HCR is expected to lower costs on something you admit you would purchase anyway why are you upset?"

Why are they so upset? I just don't get it....

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. DU and Free Republic agree on this one.

[yurbud]

2. John Adams, one of the founding fathers, signed a mandate into law LINK

Adams is the same founding father right wingers spooge over because of his Aliens and Sedition Act, which they liken to the Patriot Act, and the dynastic politics of father and son.

But on healthcare, he was decidedly a big government socialist.

In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating this Act as many of its members were the drafters of the Constitution.

And when the Bill came to the desk of President John Adams for signature, I think it’s safe to assume that the man in that chair had a pretty good grasp on what the framers had in mind.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socialized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/

[abelenkpe]

5. I saw that too!

What's up with Forbes lately? That's the second article I've seen recently from them countering right wing talking points. :)

[quaker bill]

8. Nice

There was also a requirement that all males privately purchase a musket and ammo. Just in case another well regulated militia (army) was needed.

BTW from antique flyers I have seen, "well regulated" meant uniformed troops matching up and marching in precise close order drills.

[Mojambo]

3. I would welcome a mandate were it to provide an option where I did NOT

have to pay money to soulless, parasitic private corporations whose main interest is in seeing me NOT receive benefits.

Since this law doesn't include such an option, I'm forced to oppose it.

[abelenkpe]

4. So you wanted single payer?

That's what I wanted.

I would love to cut out insurance companies.

I just don't get tea partiers who on one hand rant about people not pulling their own weight and then complain when everyone is forced to pull their own weight. Or that are bothered about HCR when it's designed to make health care less expensive for them. I would think they'd be overjoyed.

[Desertrose]

7. They don't take it that far....

they only see that THEY have to pay it.


Single payer/universal medicare for all would solve solve a lot of problems.

[Mojambo]

9. Wanted single payer. Would have accepted a public option.

Won't accept forced payments to health insurance racketeers.

[WinkyDink]

6. We really have been over this territory a million times here.

[Shagbark Hickory]

10. Simple. Because it is unconstitutional.

[Drew Richards]

11. The Individual Mandate was a Republican compromise...

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act in regards to Individual Mandate:



In some current active threads on the Internet, people are still spewing out conservative talking points or as I like to call it...blatant bulls**t... about the PPACA and how it got passed.



Here is the fact of the matter on the Individual Mandate Proposal:



HOUSE BILL:



Liberals and Moderates wanted Universal Health Care or Expansion of Medicare...a Public Option... Pelosi and her assistants had to spend months hammering out difficult compromises to satisfy the Liberal, Moderate and Conservative wings of both parties.



The House Bill had the Public Option, and the Individual Mandate was added as an appeasement to Republicans in the House.



The exact same individual mandate proposed in the 90's by Republicans...BOB DOLE, RICHARD LUGAR, CHARLES GRASSLEY, ORIN HATCH, JESSE HELMS and TRENT LOTT. Exactly the same, Word for Word...



Individual Mandate was and is a Republican proposal added on in negotiations for Republican support prior to the bill being sent to the Senate. The legislation was passed 220-215 shortly after House members added an additional provision that prohibits federally subsidized insurance plans from offering abortion services. Only one House Republican, Rep. Anh "Joseph" Cao of Louisiana, voted for the bill. Thirty-nine Democrats voted against it.





SENATE BILL:



The Individual Mandate was part of the agreement required for the Republicans to support the Health Care Bill...and still they 99% voted against the updated bill... (Senator George V. Voinovich, Republican of Ohio, was not present and did not vote.) This also was a way for the Republicans to continue to fight the bill, citing it as unConstitutional to force citizens to purchase insurance from a private company...Just as the Democrats cited in the 90's. Which is one of the reasons it did not pass the first time the Republicans attempted passing the Individual Mandate.



In the Senate, only one Republican, Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, voted for either of two committee bills being merged by Democratic majority leader Harry Reid.

To carry the bill forward, Democrats needed to appease DINO's, Social Conservatives, and the two Independent senators. One point of contention: abortion funding. a final hour agreement was made with some 40 social conservatives to exclude public funding of abortions. The amendment passed, 240 to 197, with 64 Democrats voting with Republicans on the measure.

The Senate Republicans then Stripped the Public Option out in negotiations prior to the final vote; saying they would "consider" voting for the bill, if it did not contain the Public Option... Harry Reid agreed to the removal of the Public Option to get Health Care passed...but of course, the Republicans reneged and still voted 99% against...

The PPACA passed the Senate on December 24, 2009, by a vote of 60–39 with all Democrats and two Independents voting for, and all Republicans except one voting against. Republican Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky was the lone senator to miss voting on the bill.

The PPACA passed the House of Representatives on March 21, 2010, by a vote of 219–212, with 178 Republicans and 34 Democrats voting against the bill.

President Obama did not Veto the PPACA bill containing the Individual Mandate but no Public Option because; even a partial bill gave additional coverage to millions of men, women and children.



Pretty slick on the Republicans part! You have to admire how they keep moving the central goal post further and further to the extreme Right and never capitulate on anything in negotiations...



It is time to stop blaming President Obama for the Republicans duplicity in the Health Care Bill in regards to the Individual Mandate and the Public Option.



If we just have to blame a Democrat rather than the Republicans for the way the bill came out...blame the one in charge...Harry Reid.



We should praise Obama for getting any health care passed, and instead of complaining, help Democratic Moderates and Liberals retake the House and strengthen the Senate, Dump the DINO's! in both the House and Senate and demand Democrats Fix This Bill!



We need to amend the law and reinstate the Public Option Now!



Addendum:

VA and Florida conservative high courts have already handed down opinions that it is unconstitutional vs the commerce clause and there are currently 10 cases headed to the Supreme Court on this issue...so I would not unequivocally claim individual mandate is constitutional.

The conservative states are using these decisions currently to not implement the PPACA in their states and holding it hostage until it gets through the "conservative" Supreme Court. Where they are hoping, as was their original intent by adding the individual mandate, the bill is unconstitutional and we will have to start over...a "win" against Obama...or...it is constitutional and they get to bleed the entire populous via private insurance companies...this is a WIN WIN for the Republicans and the private sector...

The mandate as written HAS a financial penalty of pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2085).

Here are links to a NYT article on Health care states rights and fights and a PDF of the specific policies and procedures contained in the entire PPACA as it was passed....

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/index.html

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf