Can We Call Them "Nazis" Yet ???

[WillyT]

Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'
Ryan J. Reilly | TPMMuckraker
September 2, 2011, 10:40AM



<snip>

Conservative columnist Matthew Vadum is just going to come right out and say it: registering the poor to vote is un-American and "like handing out burglary tools to criminals."

"It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country -- which is precisely why Barack Obama zealously supports registering welfare recipients to vote," Vadum, the author of a book published by World Net Daily that attacks the now-defunct community organizing group ACORN, writes in a column for the American Thinker.

"Encouraging those who burden society to participate in elections isn't about helping the poor," Vadum writes. "It's about helping the poor to help themselves to others' money. It's about raw so-called social justice. It's about moving America ever farther away from the small-government ideals of the Founding Fathers."

Most conservative criticism of voter registration drives aimed at poor and minority communities has been under the guise of worries about voter fraud. Vadum's column is notable because he isn't just pretending to be worried about the nearly non-existent threat of in-person voter fraud -- he just doesn't think poor people should be voting.

<snip>

Link: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/columnist_registering_poor_to_vote_like_handing_out_burglary_tools_to_criminals.php

:evilfrown:

[upi402]

1. The REAL fraud is from Diebold, Choicepoint etc...

and NOT from poor folks.

You can't even acknowledge that BushCo tactics parallel Nazi tactics here without getting flamed. So we replay history...

[helderheid]

42. AGREED!!!!!

[Angry Dragon]

2. Terrorists and Traitors are the words for today

Nazi is so old school

[Faygo Kid]

3. No, the Nazis stand alone. But we can call them evil.

And Matthew Vadum is clearly just that.

[autorank]

24. ...or just Republicans

Hagel went off on his party recently on the debt ceiling. I think his term for their behavior was "ridiculous." It was quite a statement.

[GodlessBiker]

4. No! Nazi crimes went far beyond denying people the right to vote. They are fascists.

They are undemocratic assholes. They are any number of things without having to go down the Nazi road. Nazi crimes were just too enormous to pin that label on these people.

[WillyT]

6. I Agree... So Far...

:shrug:

[backscatter712]

32. The Nazis started small.

They only started putting people in ovens on a large scale in the 40's. They had to build up to that. Before that, they were merely non-epic authoritarian monsters.

Give the Republicans enough breathing room, and they'll start their own equivalent of putting people in ovens. The psychology is EXACTLY the same. Right-Wing Authoritarianism as discussed by Bob Altemeyer.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[atreides1]

39. Even the Nazis started somewhere

The death and labor camps didn't show up on day one either!

[GodlessBiker]

46. The Nazis were Nazis, so to speak, not because of where they started but because of where ...

they ended up.

It's lazy and inaccurate, and just meant to be an emotional grabber and not an intellectually honest statement, to call the people referred to in the OP Nazis.

[Imajika]

5. You never win by pulling the Nazi card...

Just don't do it. The minute you do you've lost the argument.

[nebenaube]

11. bullshit..

What some of you don't realize is that we are really experiencing the final battles of WWII. The Fifth Column is winning.

[Imajika]

23. Absolute nonsense...

Every bad government or person is not a Nazi. The National Socialist German Workers' Party was it's own unique form of evil, bearing absolutely no resemblance to the modern American Republican party or even 99.99% of the most vile conservatives that are active within it.

Your argument that we "experiencing the final battles of WWII" is completely and utterly ridiculous. I'd recommend you brush up on the history of the Nazi party and the circumstances that led to it's rise to power before you go on making ignorant posts. Here are some good places to start:

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Third-Reich-Richard-Evans/dp/0143034693/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-Power-Richard-Evans/dp/0143037900/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

http://www.amazon.com/Third-Reich-at-War/dp/0143116711/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c

[pnorman]

44. Thanks. I may get the Audible.com version.

I've read the Shirer book a few times long ago, and have just recently gone about 1/3 way through the audible.com version. But this one might be more to my purpose,

Born in 1930, the Third Reich was a vital part of my intellectual/emotional development.

[backscatter712]

33. This whole "Don't go Godwin" shit needs to stop. Sometimes, the analogy fits. n/t

[Imajika]

37. No, the analogy almost never fits...

Those who make the analogy are generally completely ignorant about what the Nazi Party actually was, how it came to power, how it governed, how it waged war, or pretty much anything else about the subject.

[backscatter712]

47. I know perfectly well how the Nazi Party got started and got into power.

And I'm seeing the same pattern - the Nazis started off as two-bit thugs who tried getting power through low-level street violence.

That didn't work, but a few years later, the Great Depression hit, so they were able to ride that and get a minority in power.

They allied with other conservative parties, as well as the business big-wigs, got enough veto points in the Reichstag that they could block things like increasing funding for unemployment compensation, and held the country hostage to get things that they wanted. Sound familiar?

Through hostage-taking politics, and through the dumbfuckery of the previous leaders, Hitler got himself appointed as chancellor.

It's going pretty much according to the same gameplan the Republicans are using today. The only difference is that the GOP hasn't had the opportunity to start putting people in ovens yet... But they have the same psychology. They're always looking for groups to demonize. For the Nazis, it was the Jews. Today, the GOP can pick between Muslims, blacks, Latinos, Democrats... Give them enough power and they will start oppressing with physical force, maybe throwing people into camps...

[BOG PERSON]

7. no, because nazism/fascism was not some kind of aggressive form of elitism

[notadmblnd]

8. How arrogant they are- to think that they produce anything

These types of people are the real burden on the country. They produce nothing. They get theirs by scheming, cheating, stealing, killing and taking advantage of others.

What this individual produces is nothing! A conglomeration of words that in reality doesn't mean a thing to anyone. He and people like him are nothing but human leeches.

[arcane1]

17. Exactly, they don't produce SHIT!!!!!

One wealthy CEO and 10,000 crap-paid workers, and they think THEY are the ones making it happen :eyes:

[Shagbark Hickory]

9. Nope. Still inappropriate. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Well in that respect I'd rather call them... TORIES

That is a race to 1750...

[socialist_n_TN]

12. So many people forget that Nazism did NOT spring

full blown like Aphrodite from Zeus' head. It developed in stages and steps. Steps kind of like this.

[WillyT]

20. THANK YOU !!!

It almost boils down to... if you don't have Auswitch, you don't have Nazism.

The concentration/death camps/crematoriums/Zyclon B showers... ALL came from a way of thinking, promoted by government, and adopted by the masses.

I also think the word "Nazi" is over used, and thrown about too casually...

But if it is my duty to see it, miles before it becomes a reality... "Never Again", then...

I will use it, and I will not apologize for it.

:shrug:

:hi:

[backscatter712]

36. EXACTLY!!! The psychology, Right Wing Authoritarianism, is exactly the same.

The people going "HURRRRR! GODWIN!" can all kiss my ass.

The Nazis started small - with petty street-thuggery and hostage-taking stunts in the Reichstag (sound familiar?) The Germans fell for it because of the economic devastation of the Great Depression, and before long, Hitler took power, the Reichstag burned, the Enabling Act was passed, the rest is history.

But it started small. They didn't go from zero to millions-in-ovens overnight. They had to work up to it.

It's our job to ensure the Republicans NEVER have the opportunity to work up to it.

[one_voice]

13. Just when you think they can't get anymore..

fucked up they prove you wrong. Horribly disgusting!!!

K&R

[autorank]

14. #5 Here - great point - rate this sucker up

Antebellum might be another way of tagging them;)

[arcane1]

15. No, but you can call them FLAMING GREEDY ASSHOLES any time of day

:) :hi:

[Dragonfli]

16. No that was a special branch of Fascism, but they are fascists, just call them that, it is accurate

They are Fascists by all of the definitions I am aware of, if I am wrong I am sure someone can supply a definition of fascism that does not actually apply to them. I doubt any one can.

[one_voice]

18. One more thing...

does he think that the only poor in this country are welfare recipients? Cuz he's terribly mistaken.

There are people that work their asses off that are poor. There are disabled people that are poor. There are seniors that are poor.

I guess he doesn't realize that many poor folks vote for conservatives. Don't know why they vote against their own interests, but they do.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Fascists is a more accurate term

The Nazis were a subset of Fascists peculiar to Germany in the 1920s through 1945.

[Dragonfli]

21. I just said basically the same thing, great minds and all

:hi:

[BOG PERSON]

22. what is fascism but militant social-democracy?

in a sense it seeks the same end as social democracy. i.e. preserving class society while smoothing over the contradictions of capitalism. fascism is the shape social-democracy takes in times of acute class antagonism. this means the fascist programme contains a similar paternalistic-egalitarian component as social-democracy, only as interpreted by its mass base, i.e. white collar workers and different layers of the petit-bourgeoisie, instead of the ordinary bourgeoisie. however this mass base does not possess the internationalist orientation, discipline and capacity for self-organization of the industrial proletariat. thatr is why fascism is a big bogeyman that will inevitably tire itself out every time it gains power.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. German fascism got 'tired out' right about the time it reached the

banks of the Volga River at Stalingrad in 1942-43 :)

On a sadder note, an estimated 20 million Soviet citizens lost their lives before German fascism tired itself out.

In case you're missing my point, I don't think fascism inevitably does anything. It was nip and tuck at Stalingrad for about 6 months before Zhukov gave the Wehrmacht a taste of its own medicine.

[newspeak]

48. So, Hitler used and befriended american big business

for his concept of militant social democracy? And families, like DuPont loved his "social" ideology? And my german great grandfather, a democratic socialist, wasn't really an enemy of Hitler; after all, he was a socialist. And, the unionists weren't killed by Hitler because hitler embraced german workers over business?

[BOG PERSON]

57. yes, pretty much?

except for that last part about embracing workers over business. after all, even social-democracy of the second international variety doesnt aim to overthrow capitalism. it isnt a stranger to anticommunism either. do you know who was a "socialist" before he saw the light and became a fascist? that's right. mussolini.

[autorank]

25. Kick for the truth

:kick:

[Major Hogwash]

26. Hell, yeah. That's a great picture of the most famous movie Nazi.

We should all be landowners to vote!!
College kids don't get any say in voting.

Oh, shit, changed that law clear back in 1972.

LoL

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. remember the old Jack Kemp kind of line that conservative economics would be good for the poor and

help raise them out of their dire conditions? I guess the paradigm has so shifted to the far right that there doesn't need to be any pretense anymore.

These people are just plain unbelievable.

[pokerfan]

28. Voting is for white male property owners

Says so right in the constitution.

Scratch a strict constructionist, reveal a sexist, racist (wannabe) elitist.

[newspeak]

49. so, that also excludes the women folk

who should get their arses back in the kitchen and produce more "white" babies. And, sadly, there are some women who believe it.

[pokerfan]

54. Women, vote? Surely you jest!

Barefoot and preggers, that's what I say!

[gordianot]

29. They have a long ways to go to ever equal the German brand but they are classic fascist

[Nye Bevan]

30. No, because that is disrespectful to the victims of the *actual* Nazis (nt)

[backscatter712]

31. Good evening, Fraulein!

You Americans, you're all ze same! Always overdressing for ze wrong occasions.

[Zanzoobar]

34. Could someone please explain to me what that halfwit is on about?

I mean, in fewer than fortyseven nonsensical sentences.

[Skittles]

35. what a pig

white conservative men in suits are the REAL threat to America

[WillyT]

40. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

:kick:

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[kestrel91316]

41. No, we are never allowed to make that comparison. They have got some people

convinced that to do so would be mean to Jews.

Clever trick, there, really.

[backscatter712]

45. Well, look at where Godwin's Law originally came in.

It was when some dumbass played the Nazi card in a completely idiotic context, say over the vi vs. emacs flamewar among Unix/Linux geeks that people cited Godwin's law and called him out.

Does that mean the Nazi comparison should never, never, ever be used?

Well, not for vi vs. emacs flamewars. That's just moronic.

But here, we have the Republicans seriously suggesting that college students be deprived of their civil rights, specifically the right to vote. Just because the Republicans are afraid they'll vote for Democrats.

I think the Nazi comparison fits. Add in the party's now-institutionalized bigotry against blacks, Latinos, Muslims, the GLBT community, etc. The Republicans are bigots. The Nazis are bigots.

And the Nazis weren't some one-off aberration that can never happen again. Lots of states have fallen victim to fascism, and the U.S. is not special. There are lots of would-be-Hitlers out there, and an army of people who would be willing concentration camp guards and enforcers thanks to the psychological effects demonstrated by the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Don't tell me I can't say Nazi when it truly does fit.

[hughee99]

50. Is suggesting that students should vote in the place

that they came from and not the place where they go to school really "Nazi"? Yes, they should be able to vote in whichever place they want (either/or, of course) but is this Really "Nazi"? Come on...

[backscatter712]

51. It's part of the larger strategy of vote suppression.

Add in the voter-ID laws in many places, the requirements for registering months in advance of an election (as opposed to other countries where if you're not registered to vote, on election day, they drop you at the registration table to fill out a form, then you vote,) the use of police to harass minorities who attempt to vote, the practice of giving poor/inner-city/Democratic districts not enough voting machines or broken machines so there are long lines to vote, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, a determined campaign to disenfranchise millions of Americans of their civil right to vote? I'll go Godwin on that.

[hughee99]

52. So are the Dems who suggested that out-of-state students

shouldn't participate in the Iowa Caucus in '08 also "Nazis"?

[kestrel91316]

53. It started in a geek war over programming?????? ROFLMAO.

Godwin's Law has ZERO application when we are talking about civil liberties, racism, and fascism. You are 110% correct in that.

[Rex]

55. Not Nazis...more like slave owners!

They want to own slaves! :mad:

[BOG PERSON]

58. nazis also used slave labor

[Rex]

60. True, but that still does not make them Nazis.

So did a lot of nations over time; I mean more like a 'working for 13cents and hour slave labor' type nation. More akin to a third world country and not a supposed superpower.

[Quantess]

56. No. You automatically lose points

when you make comparisons to Hitler or Nazis in your argument.

[Remember Me]

59. No, it would be inaccurate

They aren't Nazis, though they are Nazi-like in many ways. So Fascists would be better.

[SunDrop23]

61. Yet? I have been referring to the bastards as Nazis since the mid 90s. (nfm)

[bobthedrummer]

62. Of course-since these are American RW FASCISTS influenced by the unknown number of NAZIS

that were given identities and jobs as Americans in national security to combat the COMMUNIST MENACE immediately following WWII.

NAZIS were part of the US Intelligence community at it's birth in 1947, NAZIS were part of the post-war US medical community, NAZIS were presented as AMERICANS to we, the people.

So with those facts, yep, they are NAZI influenced American NAZIS imo, Willy T.