I give up discussing Obama here

[Taverner]

Both sides are maddening, and neither will budge in their opinion. If one holds a nuanced, measured opinion, you get flack from both sides. Called an "Obamabot" by the anti crowd, and a "Republican Shill" or "Naderlover" from the other side.

There will be no consensus here, and there will be no lukewarm.

So fuck it.

I'll talk about everything but.

[FarLeftFist]

1. Seriously!

[monmouth]

2. The Venice Film festival is looking great, Madonna's film did NOT get

the raves she was looking for and George Clooney is NOT contemplating running for President.."Who would want that job?" was Clooney's inquiry and can't say I blame him....LOL.

[MrMickeysMom]

57. Madonna did a film?

God, she's done everyone else!

:rofl:

[monmouth]

60. Bwahahaha, I just got back to read replies..Good thing I wasn't drinking

anything. Look out keyboard. Anyway she directed or produced or both "WE" for Wallace and Edward. Venice hated it from what I can gather but they do seem too polite to say it. She wants to be seen these days as an "important" person doncha know...I'm still chucking on your reply..Oh lordy..

[pintobean]

3. K/R

:applause:

[rbnyc]

4. Don't give up...

...it's a fine art and requires practice.

:evilgrin:

Also, remember, often those with the more nuanced point of view appreciate reading, but don't post replies.

[leftstreet]

5. Good. Obama Talk is supposed to be over in GD:P n/t

[SidDithers]

6. K&R for nuanced, measured opinions...nt

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. For the most part I reached same a while ago

You know what is worst? It's twenty posters at most.

Oh and even worst, things that for sure will be discussed by academes, or already are, can't be even brought up either.

[Rex]

8. A few years ago you would see a lot of threads with really good

discussion going on - no trolls or operatives, just good deep chitchat. Now, DU has been taken over by a very small but extremely vocal group that has one agenda - to force you to quit DU or to hate your own party so much that you won't vote next year.

Pathetic, but here we are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yep...i'd say it's 20... Albeit this includes

Both sides... I could even name names. It is predictable.

[monmouth]

13. A few years ago we had so many great posters/writers and

others who have since left, most likely for the reasons you have stated. It was a very educational and interesting place to be. Now, not so much..

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Mind you, some of us still try

But it is to the point of frack it.

[monmouth]

20. And you do a great job nadin, it's just that there are now so few of you all...n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. And as you pointed out...there is a method

As to why people have left. Myself my more controversial posts...will go on my own blog from now on. At least they will be out there, beyond academe. I concluded this place is like an ostrich with certain issues.

[monmouth]

48. This used to be my first visit when logging on, now it's the last..LOL..n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. The twitter, at 240 characters...

At times is better anymore...

:-(

[Taverner]

55. NB is one of the last of the thinkers here...

Someone who has seen the dark side of damn near everything

I take NB's word more seriously than most

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Check this out

http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779

I posted the op here but the whole article is a scary read.

[Obamanaut]

72. More like ALL sides of everything under the sun. Everything. nt

[Taverner]

77. Yup

[RandomKoolzip]

19. Edited.

Deleted because of errors in judgement.

[Rex]

23. Deleted message

Because I can!

[RandomKoolzip]

28. My sincere apologies, then.

If I mistook your tone or content, it's because I'm chafing from having been accused, alongside ALL critics of Obama on DU, of being paid operatives and disruptors and I responded to what I mistakenly thought were weasel words. I apologize.

[Rex]

33. No problem, I can understand - a tombstoned troll use to love

to call me a teabagger operative in PMs. No this is a problem of a very few that do not have sincere reasons for being here, you and I are here to talk about politics - they are here to disrupt and make sure the Democratic Party loses next year. And they are on bothsides - ie - proObama and antiObama and make sure we all keep at eachothers throats.

[RandomKoolzip]

36. Agreed. I mean, I'm voting for Obama and I'm going to vote for Dem congresspeople...

And no one is either all bad or all good. I think we could all stand a little more nuance around here.

[Rex]

44. As much as I rant about Obama he gets my vote (again).

Because I REFUSE to believe that enough Dems would stay home to help elect Rich Perry.

When I started to see those posts...well it just screams TROLL imo. We all know that there are good things about the POTUS and bad things and the ones that treat him like a human with flaws and not God or the Devil are the ones I want to have a discussion with.

I'm not so sure about Dick Cheney - I think he is all evil and then some!

[Taverner]

58. He gets my vote. Nothing else.

He is the best we are going to get.

And I would argue, at this time, still better than a Bill Clinton...

[Rex]

68. I don't agree, Bill Clinton created 23 million jobs and left us with a surplus.

Obama can only dream of doing that. Maybe in his second term.

[Taverner]

69. That's when Clinton did it

Wasn't during his first term - he had to put out Bush I fires at that time.

[Rex]

70. True and he agreed to a Bush policy - NAFTA.

Horrible decision imo. We shall see if Obama can recreate Clinton's second term! Minus the witch hunt!

[GoCubsGo]

46. Well said. n/t

[HappyMe]

40. This. Exactly.

Rather than rail against their repuke congress critter and senators, cantor or boner....


The guy was handed a hellish mess.

[NBachers]

51. I'm stayin' here, and I'm noticing a backlash against the rabid hate-Obama anti-Democrat vipers

Your venom is not allowed in my blood

[End Of The Road]

9. At this point, what's left to discuss about Obama?

The next move is his, and then we'll have something new to discuss. And whatever his move may be, both sides will budge in their opinions for better or worse.

Meanwhile, let's talk about solar storms!

[Obamanaut]

27. He's tall, and wears nice suits. nt

[HopeHoops]

10. Yeah. Lets get some good ol' fashion sex threads going. What Obama needs is a Monica.

[wtmusic]

11. Just put extremists on Ignore.

Try it, it works.

[Iggo]

31. 'Extremists'...that's the word I was looking for.

Thank you!

:fistbump:

[tblue]

14. I saw the new movie "The Debt." Do not miss it!

Loved it! Riveting. Best movie I've seen all year.

[Iggo]

24. That looks good!

I was gonna see Apollo 18, but after the Conan disappointment last week, I'd rather see a movie with more depth.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. I came to the same realization a little while back for the same reasons

It's been the mission of a few to make it impossible to discuss anything but their biased and extreme views where Obama is involved.

[Rex]

18. +1

[Iggo]

29. 'Extremists'...that's the word I was looking for.

Thank you!

:fistbump:

[Number23]

80. Yep. And you find their names 100 times in every thread

Someone types something, even something as simple as "I agree" or "rec," and they'll have 20 replies from people foaming at the mouth determined to "change their mind." It's nothing short of insane.

[liberal N proud]

17. Good luck

[ZombieHorde]

21. "I'll talk about everything but." Um, don't you mean

"I'll talk about everything butt." Just joking.

There are some posters here who try to judge each policy on its own, which is why I usually put the phrase "both sides" in quotes. There are more than just two sides here on DU. Not everyone here equates President Obama to a sports team they either cheer for or cheer against.

[RandomKoolzip]

25. Exactly. When he does something I like, I praise. When he does something I dislike, i criticize.

And if there's too much of the latter, I'm not going to just not talk about it because the guy's got a (D) by his name. No one is immune from criticism.

I can only speak for myself, but my own criticisms of the President are based on his Administrations' policies and actions. The person - who he is apart from his function as a part of the machinery of statecraft - I don't give a fuck about. I don't care about his personality or his dog or his background; I just want shit to get fixed and good policy to get passed.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

42. I have defended President Obama on numerous occasions.

I made a positive President Obama post just earlier today... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=761772&mesg_id=762052

Here I argued for someone to vote for President Obama... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=1731477 I think I made a pretty good argument for voting for him.

[Taverner]

59. My butt is my, well, seating device!

Are you saying I have an improper seating device there ZH???

How dare you!

:P

[Iggo]

22. Yep.

There's more than the two sides. But BOY are those two LOUD.

:patriot:

[Obamanaut]

26. Is starting a thread saying you are not discussing an issue discussing that issue. Could

you not simply refrain from responding to anything in a thread you don't want to be a part of?


This was quite similar to a GBCW thread.

[jpak]

30. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[TwilightGardener]

32. There's an "overpraising children" thread. Now that's a problem I'm sure we all

feel needs addressing. :eyes:

[Eddie Haskell]

34. It's been changed to O'bowalot.

x(

[BeyondGeography]

35. Hey, good post

Please stick around.

[Taverner]

61. I ain't going nowhere :)

My strategy has always been wear the bastards out, and don't let them grind you down :)

[GeorgeGist]

38. Post turtle.

Be damned.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. "Difference of opinion are what make horse races." Mark Twain

[treestar]

41. You're claiming to be the objective one?

[Taverner]

56. Not. At. All.

I am merely claiming to have an opinion. One among many.

But I am claiming to be the nuanced one, the one who sees more than black or white

[cottonseed]

43. It's a site full of activists from both sides. To give a little is to give up entirely your position

The site became big enough long ago, for activists for all sides to recognize that it should be targeted. Big social sites all run into the same problem. Once the size of the thing can be manipulated for big profit or some other end, it's overrun with marketers, activists, and trolls. It's time to move on.

[readmoreoften]

45. There's a song about it. It's called "Which side are you on?"

There is no middle ground between disastrously caving to the enemy and standing up to the enemy.

[Taverner]

52. "You're either with us, or with the terrorists"

"He who is not with me, is against me"

"The lukewarm shall be spat out"

Yeah yeah yeah, save your binary conclusions for your side job in the Evangelical Christian Church

Those of us with brains have to discuss adult things

[Rex]

54. I never knew multitasking was so hard for people!

Binary indeed!

[Claudia Jones]

65. how far could we go with that?

Would you have applied your formula to the battle for Emancipation? The battle to organize Labor? The battle for Women's Suffrage? The Civil Rights struggle?

How is it "adult" to not pick a side?

[Taverner]

66. You don't get it do you?

Look at who the GOP is running. Don't give me the 'boogeyman fallacy' - do you want Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry or, really, any of them near the football?

They aren't acting this time around. This is their push for a full on theocracy. Go re-read everything Bachmann and Perry have said about, well, anything.

The best of these, Romney, is no different than our current President. Except he's a little worse.

Vladimir Lenin thought it will get worse before it gets better. I disagree. It will get worse before it gets worse.

------------------

Elect Progressives locally, that is literally, our only hope

[Claudia Jones]

71. you proved my point

As the Whigs discovered in the 1850's, compromising with the opposition helps them, it doesn't hurt them. Standing up to the compromising hurts the opposition, it does not help them.

It is illogical to say we must not criticize the rightward drift of the party because that helps the right, just as it was illogical to say that people must not criticize the Wigs for compromising with the slave power because such criticism would help the slave power. The opposite is true in both cases.

[Taverner]

73. I have no problem criticizing the rightward drift, or Obama. I do have a problem with handing..

...the election to the theocrats

[Claudia Jones]

74. agreed

The question is this: does criticizing the rightward drift of the party hand the election to the theocrats, or is it the rightward drift itself that gives life and hope to the theocrats? I would maintain that it is the latter.

[Taverner]

75. It's neither - the theocrats will try to take power by any means necesarry

Stop them

[Claudia Jones]

79. they are over-rated

They are not the real enemy. In any case, if "neither" helps or hurts them, then what are all of the arguments here about?

[Taverner]

81. "They are not the real enemy" - Um, yeah

Okay

Enjoy that delusion

[Claudia Jones]

82. suggestion

Don't accept the cable TV news framing of the political landscape.

[Taverner]

83. Sorry, denial doesn't work

No matter how much you wish it weren't so...

[Claudia Jones]

84. denial of what?

You lost me there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. And I know what side the bidness friendly democratic party

Is not on...

[kentuck]

49. Perhaps if we ignore them, they will go away?

Obviously, they are all trolls or freepers who hate this President.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucian]

62. I can know an electron's current position,

but I cannot precisely know where it will be in the future.

Damn that uncertainty principle.

[Taverner]

67. Yes

Bloody Heisenberg!

:P

[lunatica]

76. I think you just have to be true to yourself. Fuck them

[CTyankee]

78. Many of us feel the same way. No need to discuss. Wait and see is my attitude.

Will anything bring out Obama's fighting spirit? Don't know.

Many depressed liberals in New Haven now...and we're one of the strongest redoubts of liberalism as you'll find...

[Vinnie From Indy]

85. Maybe baking tips would be less frustrating

Cheers!