For everyone here saying "I judge by what someone does, and not by what they say"

[truedelphi]

What are you really saying?

Where and when and by whom do you feel betrayed?

All explanations welcome.

[Rex]

1. Well, not really me, but I think it goes like this

'Actions speak louder then words.'

[pocoloco]

2. Not that fucking complicated! LOL

[Rex]

24. Then...than?

Shit. :P

[pipi_k]

3. Who knows, but my take on it all is

that people seem to have judged Obama by what he said in 2008. Or what they thought he said.

They voted for him based on what he said...or what they thought he said.

Now that he doesn't seem to be doing what he said...or what they thought he said...they're judging him based on his actions.

Because actions speak louder than words. Except when people hear what they want to hear in someone's words...


:shrug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. Which is why his numbers have tanked.

That strange indie "middle" finds that he is no leader, but a hands off observer and conciliator. Fatal, when strong leadership is sought and hoped for.

[truedelphi]

5. He not only promised us he'd be a leader, he promised us that we would

Restore America to its greatness "together."

And this was not something that we "thought" he said, it is something he actually said.

He was saying very progressive things -- Listen to this six minutes and it is easy to remember that he did say the things we thought he did.

Six minutes of a very progressive Obama addrssing a progressive crowd in Wisconsin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGcCcwJB4G8


But then he got elected, and Rahm came in as his right hand man, and the two of them colletively gave most of us the middle finger.

[Morning Dew]

29. Good God, it's sad to listen to that now.

:(

[truedelphi]

42. I know, it is very sad. b/t

[Fumesucker]

6. So we were supposed to judge him on his actions before he'd actually performed any actions?

It's not like Obama came with this long and outstanding track record to judge him on.

Hope, change.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Can you say Nobel Peace Prize? n/t

[Little Star]

40. That was something!!!! Could not believe it!

[truedelphi]

43. Those two expressions: "Hope" - "Change" were

Used by Margaret Thatcher to unify the British people in voting her in.

They soon found out how misled they'd been.

I didn't know that till about six months ago, when watching a British TV show.

[Claudia Jones]

7. not quite

People vote based on what the politicians say. They then compare that to what the politicians do. After all, the politicians talk about what they are going to do and get people to vote based on that.

:shrug:

The convoluted logic you are using here obscures what should be a very simple and straightforward thing.

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. Speak for yourself

I don't give a shit what politicians and political candidates are shoveling. They are after all notoriously unrealiable with a motive to decieve.

The single best method to choose a political candidate to support IMHO is to follow the frickin money.

[Claudia Jones]

15. agreed

That is self-evident, I would think.

[patrice]

10. 1+ especially for the last line. nt

[Demit]

14. 'I will put on a comfortable pair of shoes and I will walk on that picket line with you as President

I thought he said that on the campaign trail. Other people thought he did too, because that's how he was quoted in news reports. Gee, I wonder what he really meant, that I and everyone else must've been reading into? I guess we iz really stoopit.

[Little Star]

39. And that is their fault? No, see what Obama wrote about himself...

"The Audacity of Hope”
In the book's prologue. "I serve as a blank screen," Obama writes, "on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."


He decided to be that blank screen so how can you think that they voted for him based on what he said...or what they thought he said. That was his own plan to leave people without a clear understanding of what he stood for. He did it on purpose!

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. If I'm hungry and malnourished

I don't give a shit if somebody promises to buy me lunch. Talk is cheap.

I think the guy is deceptive if he expects me to contribute toward the cost of the meal - or if he tries to pay the tab in a foreign currency (or using an expired credit card) - and then blames the resturant for refusing his payment.

And I think the guy is a smarmy SOB if he chooses to dine on steak and lobster while plying me with dollar menu discards.

[tblue]

11. I don't care about promises, parties, or politicians.

Policy. Only policy matters in the end. Don't tell me you're, say, closing Gitmo and 2 years later say, "You mean you believed me?" And stop being everybody's victim!!! That's not leadership. Who wants a president they have to pity?

[Exilednight]

12. Where to start? Let's start here:

"There, there—here’s what I’ll say, Tim. We will have the vast majority of the troops who are there gone. This war will be over; there will be no permanent bases."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21738432/

Now the administration is talking permanent bases in Iraq.

[jefferson_dem]

13. I feel betrayed by supposed progressives who don't actually support or acknowledge progress...

Rather they prefer to stoke intra-party division, encourage cynicism, and misdirect their concerns (real or not) at those on our own side.

[Demit]

16. Stop supposing you know people's motives.

That's all you have, isn't it? You can't stick to substance so you attack motives. Oh, suddenly people who have been on DU for years, people who worked their hearts out for this supposedly Democratic president, suddenly what they really secretly want is to divide the party. What a ridiculous argument to make.

If you want to make excuses for why the man who ran as a Democrat is governing like a Republican, knock yourself out. But you don't have the right to blame the people who don't like it for saying so.

[jefferson_dem]

18. Save your lecture.

...and your boring sanctimony.

I was very clear. My letdown is with those who claim to be "progressive" but aren't really too much for actual progress in terms of policy. It with those who claim to be such staunch Democrats but actually advocate for abstaining on election day or stoke party division. Most obviously, this includes the "let's primary him" chorus. That's the very purpose AND outcome of primarying a sitting president, isn't it?

...not to say I DO NOT question the motives of some of the critics here. But that was not the point of my post.

[Exilednight]

20. Claim to be progressive? Do you even know what progressivism is? It's a forward

thinking philosophy that will have positive ramifications down the road. Social Security is progressivism.

Progressive + ism = progressive ideology.

And I've heard your argument before about progressivism not being an ideology, but that's exactly what an ism is.

[jefferson_dem]

21. Of course, I know what progressivism is.

Silly.

I think you may be confusing me with someone else because I know well what progressivism (i.e. "liberalism) is and also know it to be an ideology.

[Exilednight]

22. Alright, so put forward one legislative achievement that could be considered

an ideology of progressivism. It sure as hell isn't HCR.

[Union Scribe]

30. Take your own advice.

[Demit]

31. Obama claimed to support progressive policies. Obama claimed to be a staunch Democrat.

So you were let down, all right. You just don't seem to want to face the fact.

[Occulus]

33. He also claimed to be a fierce advocate for GLBTs

He out-and-out lied about that one.

[Romulox]

38. The War in Libya, Bankster Bailouts and mandatory private insurance isn't "progress"

to many of us. :hi:

[Little Star]

41. Maybe if supposed progressives would join us in holding his feet to the fire..

This would stop the intra-party division. We need to stand together for principles and policies. I urge all to stop doing what they accuse others of doing.

[nenagh]

17. ....

[alc]

someone said he was "focused like a laser on jobs"

That was well over a year ago. He's giving a speech on jobs next week. I won't give any credit for those words.

[truedelphi]

49. And with the trillions of dollars we would have had,

If this Administration hadn't gotten so cozy with the Upper Elite of the Banking Class, the story might be different. But the money no longer there.

So how can he find money for jobs anyway?

Even if he says he will, Congress cannot find it. Someone needs to make the banks give it back, but who would that be?

[alc]

19. Dup

[Lorien]

23. How is the concept confusing?

"Actions speak louder than words." "Ye shall know them by their works". It's really not complicated at all.

[JoseGaspar]

26. It is the most basic political concept there is...

...but, in case the OP is serious, let me help.

This government sucks. It sucks, not because of what it says but because of what it does. This government promotes and extends Imperial wars and alliances. This government defends and deepens globalization which continues to grind down the bulk of the people on the planet. This government kills more people than any other on earth.

This government also refuses to prosecute war criminals and corporate criminals. This government continues and deepens the politicization of "justice" and ignores equality before the law. This government undermines human rights both nationally and internationally.

This government has abandoned working people, the unemployed, those losing their houses or their social benefits to the worst economic depression since the 1930s. This government ignores the poor. This government, conversely, supports and promotes the biggest banks and corporations as they cannibalize the society.

In comparison to the above, what this or that section of the government thinks of itself or claims for itself - whether it calls itself conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican - is entirely secondary. It is like dust in the wind. So too, the fact that the last government sucked... and the one before that and the one before that, going back as far as is practical to look... that is a specialists concern. It appears that all U.S. governments of the recent past must be opposed.

This government must be opposed on its own merits. If some claim that other governments are "worse", they are merely underlining why all recent governments must be opposed.

There is no slick path out of this. There is no such thing as clean air through smog. There is no path to heaven which goes through hell. There is only a path to hell.

Or, in a slogan of a previous time, we are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

This government is the current problem and where people stand politically is determined almost entirely by where they stand in relation to it... and not by their testimonials to their own beliefs, intents, opinions, or "true loyalties".

[truedelphi]

45. Wow.

Just wow.

And my spouse adds: "Bravo!"

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Are you saying that you do not look at actions at all, but just

whatever a person tells you? Do you have kids that you raise that way? Actions matter not? Is that what you are really saying?

[Zanzoobar]

28. I love you, that's why I am going to beat the daylight out of you.

Or...You are stupid, a worthless halfwit. Here, take this money so you can live freely.

I've lived both. It's tremendously confusing. Mankind is quite an animal.

[truedelphi]

44. Sorry that you had to hear the one you cite in your header.

(if you had to hear that one.) That is where it all begins, isn't it?

Many kids from abusive homes learn by the time they are three that what they are told is very different from what they will experience.

And of course, that old canard, "Now this won't hurt." Or its variant: "This will only hurt for a second."

[timtom]

32. Actually, in the case of the current President,

my most damning judgment is by what he has NOT done.

We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan.
My non-negotiable. Game over. Case closed.

[LWolf]

34. I'm really saying that I don't give a flying fuck what any politician says

in any calculated political speech. I care about what they work for.

For example, I don't care what any politician says about health care. If they are supporting private insurance, they are full of shit and don't have any support from me.

For example, I don't care what any politician says about jobs. If they support NAFTA/CAFTA, they are full of shit and don't have my support.

For example, I don't care what any politician says about the middle east. If they support continuing the bullshit "war on terror" and continuing our military presence in the ME, they don't get my support.

For example, I don't care what any politician says about education. If they support privatization, high-stakes testing, merit pay, charter schools, and are anti-teacher, they are full of shit and don't get my support.

I feel betrayed by every Democrat who has voted for a neo-liberal in my lifetime.

[WinkyDink]

35. SRSLY?

English not your native tongue?

[truedelphi]

46. I was letting the cat get my tongue.

I wanted to see what people are thinking.

I wanted to hear what people meant.

So far my favorite answer is reply 26. Though many others were very good too.

[Aerows]

36. If a person's actions don't match their words

If they say they want to do one thing, but turn right around and do another, trust their actions. If you say "I don't want any ice cream" and then proceed to eat an entire half gallon of it, I'm inclined to believe that you did, in fact, want some ice cream LOL.

[truedelphi]

47. MMM. Ice Cream. It's now after midnight, and

Of course I am telling myself I don't want any ice cream.

But I am thinking it might be "disappeared" sometime soon.

[Romulox]

37. 8/07/2007: Obama promises to "immediately" renegotiate NAFTA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9gpvI2UfU

12/4/2010: Promises "Free Trade" with South Korea. NAFTA renegotiations still not scheduled. :hi:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/obama-south-korea-free-trade-deal-will-create-us-jobs/1

[truedelphi]

48. Hi there,

Romulox.

A small :toast: to thank you for the links.