I just got turned down as a substitute teacher.

[no_hypocrisy]

A SUBSTITUTE teacher. In an affluent county in New Jersey.

I quote: Even though your credentials were good, we have selected another candidate who more closely meets our needs. (Signed by the principal of the Middle School)

1. It's "whom" not "who" Mr. Principal.
2. My credentials were "good" but not good enough? Let's review them again:
a. Nine years of college, five of which are two graduate degrees, one of which is a juris doctor, the other a masters in education. Undergraduate degree in liberal arts.
b. I am certified to teach K-8 in New Jersey.
c. Four foreign languages.
d. Five-plus years of teaching experience.
3. What more do you need to better "closely meet (your) needs"?

[DavidDvorkin]

1. That sucks.

However, he wrote it correctly. It's "who," not "whom."

[strategery blunder]

The answer to your Question Number Three:

"We found someone who would work for less." :(

[mistertrickster]

36. Or isn't as smart, so he/she doesn't threaten my insecure ass as much

Or plays tennis with my daughter

Or the son-in-law to my neighbor's friend.

Or you're so qualified you won't stay long.

You never know what the REAL reason is that you get hired or don't get hired, and I've sat on many a hiring committee . . .

[XanaDUer]

37. I remember one committee I was on

we already had someone (awful) the boss was going to hire but we had to do through the "rule of five" and I felt so bad for those people who didn't know they weren't going to get the job.

One guy was fantastic, way, way better than the hiree...

It was my first professional position, and I saw the BS of it all right there.

Nothing is as it appears.

[XanaDUer]

2. I'm so very sorry

:(

[greyl]

3. Someone else was a better fit. Move on to the next opportunity and don't take it personally. nt

[Ohio Joe]

4. In an affuent county in Jersey?

You need to know someone or forget it.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. It's worse in Pennsylvania. You have to PAY someone to get a job there teaching.

[Mz Pip]

6. That's ridiculous

Is there really such a teacher glut in NJ? Around here all you need is a BA and an emergency credential which is pretty easy to get. Schools are desperate for qualified substitutes.

This a really mind boggling.

[dionysus]

18. in NY state, at least this part, you need a masters to get a teaching job.

that said, the OP sounds as qualified as you could hope to get.

[Curmudgeoness]

7. I see your problem...you are overqualified.

They certainly are no longer looking for people who are too smart. I will not ask your age, but I will say that I was one of a few adult teaching graduates in my class. Every one of us had trouble finding jobs because we they found people who more closely meet their needs. We had no way to prove it, but it seemed that education was not a good second career.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. But it's to be a substitute teacher. I've been hired before with the same

credentials. You can more readily hired as a substitute teacher as you aren't on a sliding union scale. Subs get the same pay not matter their education and experience.

[dkf]

10. I'm guessing your resume intimidated them.

It would be kind of odd to have the most qualified person as the sub, no?

[gkhouston]

58. Not necessarily. I would think that a knowledgable and experienced

teacher might be better able to handle the inherent chaos of subbing.

[mdavies013]

9. My wife is a teacher in NC...she said that here subs with credentials cost

more than one without.

[JVS]

11. You got #1 wrong. It's who because who is the subject and meeting the needs is what is being done.

If the subject of the relative clause were someone else, it would be "whom. For example: "We have already selected another candidate whom we like better."

[aquart]

13. Thank you! It's what I thought but whom is so intimidating.

[thereismore]

65. Correct. nt

[alphafemale]

72. yep. If you strive to be a grammer nanny.

You'd best make sure you ain't an idiot.

The Bell Tolled for Thee

It Also Just Tore a Hole in Your Ass on the Way Out the Door.

[woo me with science]

12. No, the principal is correct. It should be "who."

"Who" is the subject of the clause, "who more closely meets our needs."

[XanaDUer]

14. I always try to remember

who = he

whom = him

"He more closely meets our needs." So it is

"Who more closely meets our needs."

Not that rejection in any form doesn't hurt, even a little.

[TBF]

22. That's how I was taught as well -

who = he

whom = him

I usually have to say it that way in my head to make sure I choose the right one, you can't simply choose the one that "sounds right".

[RebelOne]

23. Yes, the principal's use of who is correct.

I an a retired copy editor, and my job was to correct poor grammar, spelling, etc.

[FarCenter]

15. The JD is a killer -- who wants to be sued?

The information you list is only what was on your resume. You don't know what other information they turned up.

[aikoaiko]

16. Sometimes it is a matter of fit as opposed to level or number of credentials.

sorry, and good luck with the job search.

I declined to hire someone who was overqualified once because I wanted someone who was the right match to the level of the position.

BTW. Was it Bergen County?

[Obamanaut]

17. Your item #1 puts a cloud on some ot the other items ->

"It's "whom" not "who" Mr. Principal...."

As to your #3, refer to your #1.

[boston bean]

19. you are over qualified.

[stillrockin]

20. Sorry to hear about that. Hope something turns up for you soon.

[TBF]

21. Translation: You might be too expensive, we are going with someone who will take less. nt

[AdHocSolver]

24. You are "over-qualified" for the position: meaning you are a potential source of trouble.

I once applied for a technical job in which I first had to take a test. I got 100 percent correct.

At the interview, the boss congratulated me on such a good result. Then he added that in the several years he was manager, no one ever got 100 percent correct. Then he admitted, that he took the same test and didn't get 100 percent correct.

End of interview. I did not get the job.

I recommend that you edit your credentials so that you don't come across as a "smart ass".

Tailor your resume and your interview to a middle level of qualifications for the job for which you are applying. Skip mentioning the law degree. Don't mention the number of languages that you have studied unless one is relevant to the position for which you are applying.

For any position for which you are applying, you are hired on the basis of meeting the requirements of the person doing the hiring.

By the way, "who" is correct in this usage, not "whom".

[dsc]

25. I have to say that in this economy it isn't surprising that sub lists would be full

My district won't let traditional teachers sub in year round schools for instance. That said, I do find the letter you got rather odd. Most districts have sub lists that they let fill up and then that is that. Qualifications have little to do with it. Then teachers pick from the list and tend to pick good ones when they can. That is the way it has worked in every district I have worked in. And for us best meant they would keep order, leave a note for us upon our return, and attempt to do the lesson as planned.

[NNN0LHI]

26. Not sure about your state but here in Illinois it requires some pull to get any public job

Got to know someone who will recommend you for the position. Put in a good word.

Been that way for as long as I can remember here.

Don

[Zoigal]

27. I got to the point of leaving degrees off my resume when applying for

some jobs. Worked for me...Of course, they were
menial, however in a field in which i was interested an
wanted to learn more about. However, in education
one would need to be a bit more specific..And it really
helps to know someone in the field...Better luck next
time. I was on a "hiring committee" once and asked the
group politely why we were going through all the process when
everyone already knew who was going to be chosen. The
principal called me a "horse's ass) for that. Truth sometimes
hurts....z

[msanthrope]

28. I don't think the JD helps your resume. It begs the question--why aren't you licensed?

Are you doing the teaching gig until you pass the bar? If you haven't passed the NJ bar, then why?

It's better to understate academic credentials, IMHO--the smart people get it, the stupid are not intimidated.

[XanaDUer]

31. But what can a person do

if they do a background check and they see they have a JD or something? Then they'll slam you for lying.

I do think a lot of folks don't want to hire an attorney, for whatever reason.

[msanthrope]

56. Omission is not 'lying' unless it materially affects your ability to do the job.

Omitting that one has a degree is not the same as omitting that one has been arresting for assault on a minor when applying for a teaching job.

FYI--the OP is not an attorney. He merely has a JD. When one passes a bar, one is an attorney.

[OmahaBlueDog]

32. I was thinking somewhat along the same lines

I've posted on this before. There is a widespread sentiment among employers that if you've been unemployed for a long time, there must be a reason beyond the bad economy. Someone looks at that resume and says "hmmmm - why the Hell does this guy want to be a substitute teacher."

[msanthrope]

57. Yes. I was hired as a sub after a long period of non-employment because I had an "excuse."

Both my parents were ill. This coincided with a want of career change.

[sammytko]

63. Our small town mayor has a JD, but no license and boy do people point that out

She lost re-election because there were rumours running all over town that she had failed the bar TEN times. I don't even know if she sat for it. Lots of them were people who probably didn't even know what it means.

[notGaryOldman]

29. Yor one o dem everlotionists, aintcha?

You don'tt eevin beleeve dat Jeezus cree ated da wurld, eye bette!

[lunatica]

30. I remember my mother being told she was overqualified

For a teaching job. Just like you.

I'm sorry. Maybe you should have a second resume where you're not quite that qualified. They just assume you'll leave for a better job.

[livetohike]

33. They hired a relative.....try not to let it get to you

Cronyism at work.

[XanaDUer]

34. You know, you're probably correct

:hi:

[livetohike]

48. It took me a while to learn that, but the education system

especially is full of nepotism. :hi:

[XanaDUer]

50. See, I never knew that

You'd think it wouldn't be, but there you go.

[marions ghost]

35. your 5 years of teaching experience

what level? College? Though you are certified to teach K-8 have you ever done that?

[no_hypocrisy]

38. I've taught students K-8 and sub taught up to 12th grade.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. Sorry, but "who" is correct there

as in "who meets."

But despite that, you should have been hired with your qualifications.

[HockeyMom]

40. In Florida all you need is an Associates to Sub Teach

Moron State. They DESERVE to be 38th place. When I quit my TA position and asked to sub as a NON-INSTRUCTIONAL SUB, they said to me, "But you can Sub as a TEACHER". No, thanks. I am NOT QUALIFIED to teach. I got blank stares from that one.

[theaocp]

41. It's not "what" you know, but

"who" you know. Your credentials intimidate me.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Your attitude plus your ignorance of "who" vs "whom" sort of sink you. nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. what's your religion and were you applying to a private school?

[no_hypocrisy]

44. Public school and religion never came up.

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. Very weird.

[no_hypocrisy]

46. Yeah.

And the district next to the one that turned me down hired me as a sub. Same demographics.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. could it be that there was someone with an inside connection who already had the job?

Could it be that posting the vacancy was simply going through the motions in order to to fulfill a legal requirement? I'm sure that happens all the time especially for positions when the law requires a public posting.

[no_hypocrisy]

49. THAT would explain it to me.

[XanaDUer]

51. Yes, the "Rule of Five"

nt.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. I'd suggest leaving the J.D. off your resume.

I have one as well, and when I decided to go into another field it nearly sunk me. After I was hired for the job I have now, I found out that they almost decided not to hire me because of it - they were afraid I'd turn out to be a troublemaker.

[DCBob]

53. that really is absurd but I suspect they thought you were over qualified.

I am sure that does not make you feel any better but clearly you are more than qualified to be a substitute teacher.. in fact you are probably more qualified than the Principal. Hope your luck changes.. maybe try to something higher level.

[jwirr]

54. I think I would ask them to explain number 3 more precisely. You

do have a right to know what that means. You sound like I would welcome you as my child's teacher.

[malaise]

55. They don't need substitutes teachers

because they are busy substituting education with propaganda. Mediocre dunces like themselves will continue to reject those with real qualifications.

[gkhouston]

59. They may not have hired anyone, despite what you were told.

If so, you wouldn't be the first person to interview for a non-existent job.

[MineralMan]

60. "who" is correct. "whom" would be incorrect in that sentence.

The principal was right. Sorry.

[GreenStormCloud]

61. Grossly overqualified.

They would be afraid that you would quit as soon as your search for something better found that better job.

[sammytko]

62. Maybe needed someone with more math or science??

[no_hypocrisy]

64. Concession!

All right. I consulted the Hodges Hambrace College Handbook (grammar/usage). I was wrong and you all were right.

Who was appropriate. Whom was incorrect on my part.

[w8liftinglady]

66. My partner said the trend is to hire younger, more easily manipulated

.... NON-union teachers here in Texas. The younger teachers aren't seen as a threat, won't argue class size, and can be paid less than seasoned,experienced teachers. He's seen it a lot in DISD.

[Igel]

67. Sorry.

The districts around here are playing an odd sort of game.

They're continuing all the subs from last year. The subs that they're hiring this year are different: They want people that really do fit their needs. So if you're special ed trained, you get a job as a sub. If you have life experiences they want in the classroom, they hire you.

Why? Because the sub and paraprofessional jobs around here are often hooks, a way of keeping a qualified candidate they'd like to hire as a teacher in the field until the economy or attrition allows the districts to hire them as teachers.

In other words, if they're doing the same thing where you live they may well have decided that there were people they'd like to hire full time if they get the funding, but for now they're on their sub list.

Last year some districts around here were short subs. Administrators were filling in, combining classes in teaching theaters. They would pay teachers to sub during their conference periods, even. This year the sub lists are full.

[BrendaBrick]

68. Sorry to hear that. Since you mentioned 4 foreign languages...

Have you thought about doing a search for multilingual jobs? Here's one for starters:

http://careerlingual.com/

Hang in there!

[Drahthaardogs]

69. You got slammed for a friend I suspect!

Unless something else is going on, and you wear dreadlocks and rasta T-shirts in a real conservative town, my guess is, Principal knew someone or more than likely someone's kid, and gave them the job. Hell, I just got slammed about a month ago at work. Kid with five years experience got a promotion over me. I have 17 years. However, the kid's dad is my boss's best friend. It happens.

[GoCubsGo]

70. I feel your pain.

I can't tell you how many times I have gotten that letter, but written in a more grammatically-correct form. I have more than 20 years of experience in my field and a Masters degree, yet there's always someone who has "slightly more experience". Usually, that "more experience" comes in the form of being the hirer's ex-grad student, who has only been out a few years. Or, some other bullshit like that. I once applied for a "senior" position for which I was quite qualified, yet had my resume placed in the running for a goddamn internship instead. Most likely, the HR person had a friend or family member who wanted the "senior" job. (Found that out via my former neighbor who works in that department. Nepotism is rampant at this federal contractor.) Two to one this principal gave the job to a friend or relative.

I'm sorry you are having to put up with this kind of shit. Thank you for posting it, though. It gives me a small comfort to know that this kind of shit is rampant, and it's not just me. I have been feeling like I'm on some sort of hiring black list for some time now.

[no_hypocrisy]

71. Thanks.

We are NOT over qualified. The standards have been reduced to cronyism and status quo.

[B Calm]

73. Substitute teachers here in Indiana don't make but around $350.00 per wk

[JustAnotherGen]

74. Is this in the 7th district

Ed Potosnak might find that interesting if you are. He's running against Lance. At one time he was a teacher in the Bridgewater School District. Here's how I'm thinking: We turn down the best and the brightest who can actually teach our children something other than what is in the book.

I'm telling you - this is why I'm hesitant to purchase a home in general (re-set needs to settle first) and extremely cautious about purchasing a home in Central NJ. Our property taxes are too high to be turning our noses up at someone with your credentials as a substitute teacher or full time/permanent teacher. I don't want to throw money away on less qualified individuals . . .

[no_hypocrisy]

76. It's a town in Northwest Bergen County.

[Codeine]

75. Subs are often chosen from area teachers who have been laid off.

With the number of teachers looking for work people with connections to a district or school are much more likely (and fairly so, IMO) to be given sub positions.

You've already been corrected on the who/whom issue, but that was perhaps representative of an attitude issue that could be impeding you as well.

[RayOfHope]

77. "I have lots of credentials" doesn't mean "I will be an awesome teacher!"

5 years of teaching experience--was it all the same grade or in the same district? I'm a teacher and am on hiring committees all the time. Sometimes we come across people that have lots of experience, but at many different schools/positions, which is always a bit of a red flag.

Of course its possible that they might have hired someone that was laid off from that school or district and is therefore already familiar with the school.

It may have come down to personality.

Whatever the case, I know it isn't easy to be without a job and I hope the perfect situation for you comes along soon.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. I take it you aren't related to anyone in the district office

30+ years ago, I applied for a teaching job and was told that I had no chance of being hired in that district because I wasn't related to any of the administrators.