"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is not, in any way shape or form, an example of "backing down" or

[scheming daemons]

"apologizing".


Geezus.


"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is EXACTLY the answer the President should give.


If you're outraged about that, then you are looking for reasons to be outraged.

[HappyMe]

1. Thank you.

I don't know what it is people expected him to say.

[Scurrilous]

2. K & R

:thumbsup:

[dennis4868]

3. wasting your time...

there is a certain large group of people here who will never approve of ANYTHING oabam does...they are like the obstructionist repubs in the congress.

[scheming daemons]

4. I'm not talking about the sock puppets.. I'm talking to people who should know better

[dennis4868]

5. okay...

there are a few of us left here :-)

[DontTreadOnMe]

6. Bullshit, Obama needed to AFFIRM, not back AWAY from Hoffa's statement

You are WITH LABOR, or against it!

So where does he stand!

How many more people of the Left is Obama going to throw under the bus?

Let's count the Liberals who are now opening talking about the FAILURE of Obama:

1. Paul Krugman
2. Matt Taibbi
3. everyone at HuffingtonPost.com
4. Erza Klein
5. Cornel West
6. Drew Westen
7. ...let's not forget the "Professional Left"

should I keep this list going? there are many more to add and the list keeps getting longer as we get more into the Election Cycle.

[scheming daemons]

8. Saying "he speaks for himself" is more affirming than backing away.... you're off base

It is EXACTLY what a President says when he agrees with the wording but can't say he agrees.



If John McCain said that "the birthers speak for themselves" he would be AFFIRMING what they said.

[progressoid]

10. How the hell is that an affirmation?

Those words were deliberately ambiguous.

If the WH wanted to affirm, they would have said so. Instead, it was a parsed response.

[scheming daemons]

13. "What does the President think of Mr. Hoffa's comments?"

"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself".


That's an affirmation.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Not a chance

Nice try though.

I give you 8/10 for the spin and a 10/10 for effort.

[progressoid]

18. That statement says he neither agrees or disagrees with Hoffa.

Just that "Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself".

Not, "we AGREE with his statement" or "we DISAGREE with his statement".

It's an eqivocation; a wimpy avoidance of the issue.



:goodgodalmighty:

[joshcryer]

26. When there are CALLS for repudiation, and NONE COME...

...that is an AFFIRMATION or at the bare minimum an implicit nod.

[scheming daemons]

38. Bingo

[demwing]

41. So you're changing you tune?

I thought it was an affirmation, cut and dried?

Now it's what? Neither an affirmation, nor a non affirmation?

Wait, I get it! Its a Nonfirmation!

Thank you for adding a new word to the lexicon - you rock :)

[Skittles]

14. BULLSHIT

it's not AFFIRMING - it's a DISAVOWAL

[joshcryer]

28. Exactly. The President is in no position to explicitly agree with such rhetoric.

But by not repudiating the statement he's effectively affirming or implicitly acknowledging or giving it a nod.

[LoZoccolo]

15. If Mr. Hoffa decided to publicly shit on the floor of a Wal-Mart to protest it's union busting then

I really wouldn't think of the people who think that that is just too gross to be "against labor".

Nice try.

[LoZoccolo]

16. "everyone at HuffingtonPost.com": you mean the STRIKE-BREAKERS?

There's a virtual picket line, you know?

[Avalux]

7. It was an appropriate comment, and I might even say a way of agreeing.

Those who call it 'backing down' might, perhaps, have hidden motives?

[scheming daemons]

9. EXACTLY. It is what one says when they AGREE with a comment

It's a tactful affirmation.

[gkhouston]

31. I have NEVER heard that phrase used as an affirmation. Always the opposite. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

33. It's been opposite world on DU since the election.

[joshcryer]

36. Res ipsa loquitur?

[gkhouston]

37. Non sequitur. n/t

[demwing]

39. Silly rabbit

See my post 25.

If Carney's response was "Mr. Hoffa's comment speaks for itself" you would have a point, but it wasn't, so you don't!

To sum up - During the primary, someone who spoke before McCain at a rally, insulted Obama. The Obama campaign asked for an apology, and got it. The reporter sees a correlation here, and is asking if we can expect an apology. Carney want to hold the middle ground, and not upset anyone. In doing so, he offends everyone. No direct apology to the Tea Baggies, clear distancing from Hoffa's statement.

The dialog, in full, was clear:

Q Okay. Well, some of us covered the campaign and recall a time when somebody made some harsh comments about then-Senator Obama while — during the introduction of a McCain rally and the Obama campaign was offended and expected an apology, and Senator McCain came out and did so.

MR. CARNEY: Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, the AFL-CIO. The President speaks for himself. I speak for the President. What the President was glad to do yesterday was have the opportunity to present his views on the importance of working Americans and on the importance of taking measures to help working Americans – to create jobs and grow the economy.

Q So the precedent you’re setting right now for the 2012 election is, the candidate — the Republican candidates are the ones that we need to pay attention to, and those who introduce them at rallies, their surrogates — you don’t have to pay attention to anything that they say.

MR. CARNEY: Jake, I really — I think I’ve said what I can say about this.

That's not even CLOSE to an affirmation, you know it, and you're carrying dirt water for Carney, and (since he speaks for the President - NOT Mr. Hoffa!), you're carrying dirt water for the President.

[demwing]

24. Oh please, just stop

:rofl: my sides hurt :rofl:

[joshcryer]

29. May I have some of what you're smoking please?

[demwing]

40. Sure, it's called Realilty Express. it's free.

take a hit :)

[spanone]

11. ssshhhhhh....

:silly: :freak:

[pacalo]

12. "Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" was appropriate because it wasn't Obama's choice of word in question.

If they want to ask someone about Hoffa's adept command of the English language, ask Hoffa.

[RetroLounge]

19. Careful you don't break a hip twisting like that

:rofl:

RL

[cry baby]

20. yep! knr

[FarLeftFist]

21. All Carney did was state a fact. Calm down people.

[JI7]

22. it's Politics as Entertainment

too many people see it that way .

[SidDithers]

23. K&R. Well said...nt

Sid

[demwing]

25. You're mistaken

If the response was "The COMMENT speaks for itself" I might see your point.

But cmon! We know that's not what was said, and we know the context in which it wasn't said...

What I want to know is who are you speaking for?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

27. As POTUS, I don't think he necessarily wants to be seen as endorsing such remarks

but he's not throwing Hoffa under the bus by denouncing him and/or condemning his remarks, so..................?:shrug:

[flamingdem]

30. Exactly Scheming - it's quite clear what they mean nt

[Luminous Animal]

32. It's one hell of a wimpy reply, though. Certainly the wordsmiths in the admin

could have come up with something that revealed gratitude for the sentiment without endorsing the way it was expressed.

This is a remarkably unwitty administration.

[Number23]

34. The fact that you even need to post this here is embarassing.

It's just mortifying.

If you're outraged about that, then you are looking for reasons to be outraged.

That goes without saying.

[Waiting For Everyman]

35. That depends on what the definition of 'is' is. (Clinton's famous weasel-clause)

That's what Carney's statement reminds me of. It isn't apologizing but it certainly isn't taking a position of strength either.

As this would've been, for instance:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1888324

I'm not one who is always criticizing Obama, but it is disappointing to watch him flub a golden opportunity to drive home an important point. I'm beginning to think that if he does get re-elected, it will be by sheer accident.

[malaise]

42. Thank you

Rec