This is one case where I don't feel racist when I say, if you don't like it, go home

[HEyHEY]

Dozens of angry Asian residents of a posh, University of B.C., highrise building aim to stage a placard-waving protest rally to protest a 15-bed hospice being planned next door.

“We cannot have dying people in our backyard,” said rally organizer Janet Fan, Wednesday “It’s a cultural taboo to us and we cannot be close to so many dying people. It’s like you open your door and step into a graveyard.”

Fan lives on the 17th floor at Promontory, at 2688 West Mall, near Thunderbird Stadium.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/Angry+Asian+condo+owners+protest+luck+hospice/4100264/story.html#ixzz1At41rJl6

-------------------

Seriously, I don't give a fuck WHAT they do where you're from. I live in China and if I were to tell them to stop lighting fireworks on Chinese new year they'd tell me to fuck off. So, if they don't like a hospice being built near then they can fuck off.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Wait till they need it.

You move into a new culture, and there's bound to be some clashes.

IF you didn't want anything to change, then you should have stayed home.

For crying out loud.

:eyes:

[HEyHEY]

2. I once saw a man in court try to argue that smacking his wife was acceptable in his country

Luckily the judge said it isn't acceptable in this one.

[gateley]

3. Are they Canadian citizens? nt

[HEyHEY]

4. likely not natural ones

Most born-in-Canada Asians don't subscribe to these old traditions with such vigor.

[gateley]

12. I've always felt it was so rude and disrespectful for someone to move to another

country and try to impose their country of birth's traditions and way of life on their new home. I would never dream of doing that. I'm the visitor, the interloper. I feel as you -- if you don't like it here, go home.

[HEyHEY]

13. Yeah, I don't have an issue if they want to complain about things

Like maybe they don't like the food, or the way the work culture is, whatever. But when you start telling us we can't build a hospice or something cause of your culture it's time to zip it. There's also issues of racism, which is more acceptable in Asia. Every now and then you hear about a Chinese guy refusing to serve and Indian or something.

[Odin2005]

18. That's why a lot of people in Europe are getting pissed off at immigrants.

They don't assimilate they they do here, they congregate in urban gettos and retain oppressive cultural practices from the old country.

[HEyHEY]

21. We welcome that in Canada, it's our schtick

ANd if they wanna do that, fine, but don't start telling us what to do.

[Orrex]

41. And I have it on good authority that they practice human sacrifice and don't love their children.

[Bluebear]

42. !

[rug]

5. I don't know about race but the squeals of the bourgeoisie are always disgusting.

“Units here are worth $1 million,” she added. “We put our life savings into this.”

She said residents are worried the hospice will have a negative impact on their property values.

Asian residents living in other buildings in the upscale Hawthorn Place neighborhood have signed a 200-name petition, including 65 from Fan’s building.

Qing Lin, who bought a Promontory apartment for $900,000 almost a year ago, said she and her seven year old daughter will have nightmares if the hospice goes ahead.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/Angry+Asian+condo+owners+protest+luck+hospice/4100264/story.html#ixzz1At5hsfLK

[leftstreet]

6. +1

:puke:

[frazzled]

7. Go home? It IS their home.

Good heavens. Whatever you think of their opposition to the hospice, please don't show such neanderthal cultural attitudes. These are B.C.'ers (living in million-dollar condos), not some immigrants off a boat. More than 10% of the population of Vancouver is Chinese.

While I don't agree with them, I have to respect that their cultural values are different than ours: they think it's unlucky to live next to the dying. It's myopic not to respect cultural values, even if we can't quite see the world through the same lens.

[HEyHEY]

9. I'm from Vancouver, thank you and it's much more than ten per cent

I sincerely doubt that these people are from Canada originally as most born o Canada Chinese A: Don't have names that are traditional chinese ones and also don't subscribe to these kind of barbaric traditions.

[frazzled]

38. Thank you for your xenophobia.

When we disagree with people, we don't say obnoxious things like "go home to where you came from." Why couldn't you just write a post disagreeing with their position? Why turn it into an immigration tirade? Why not reflect on cultural difference and then say, despite their views about death, which are foreign to me, I believe that Canadian law should prevail? Why make it ugly and racist?

[Orrex]

40. It's not about xenophobia--it's about being afraid of different-looking so-called foreigners.

Um...

[HEyHEY]

44. No it isn't, I grew up in Vancouver

THe most diverse city on the planet, I live in Beijing now, I'm getting married to a Chinese woman. I'm not the least bit scared of different looking people. I am scared, however, of people living in Canada bringing up old superstitions to discriminate against sick and dying people. People who do that should leave. WHo needs them around?

[Orrex]

49. If you're afraid of people and their superstitions, you'll need to move off of the planet

[Quantess]

47. Hey,

did you read that it centers around unfounded superstition?

[Orrex]

52. Well, so do all religions.

Sauce for the goose.

[HEyHEY]

45. Are people who discriminate against the dying a race?

I am FAR from xenophobic, I live in China, for christ sakes.. my fiancee is Chinese. I just refuse to accept ANY group of people using old cultural excuses to oppress the sick and dying. Canada isn't about that. So, leave if you don't like it.

Two of my Chinese Canadian friends and my fiancee said the same thing, not that that qualifies it. I won't stand for it. It's disrespectful and rude to play that card when you're just trying to get money out of the whole thing.

These people are going to PROTEST A HOSPICE... they aren't planning a Chinese new year parade.

[Orrex]

50. Oh--my mistake. I didn't realize that this was the *noble* form of xenophobia

What was I thinking?

[blondeatlast]

8. Not race, class--and personally, I hav e no objection to that. They just don't want

their property values to lower.

[HEyHEY]

10. Then protest it on those grounds, don't bring out some BS argument about culture

[blondeatlast]

11. I'm with you--but that's bad PR. "Oppressed" sells better than "wealthy." nt

[petronius]

48. That's true. And if it wasn't a hospice - say a group home or a pot dispensary or

a reform school or a walmart - they'd have some other high-falutin' argument that sounded better than "Whaaahh! Me Me Me!" But the motive is always the same...

[somone]

14. “We cannot have dying people in our backyard”?

In China, the vast majority of people die at home - right inside their house!

[HEyHEY]

15. There's places here that sell death clothes and are open 24 hours

Cause they have to be put in their death clothes before rig sets in. So, if grandma kicks it at three AM, someone runs out to by her a burial suit right then.

[AngryAmish]

51. Actually in China people are immortal for the most part

It is the unlucky and cursed who actually die. It is considered bad form.

I think your xenophobia is showing.

[Quantess]

16. I don't get it. Is it a superstition or something?

Bad luck for your home to be too close to dying people? As long as the dying people aren't contagious, I would say that's an ignorant cultural throwback that does not deserve to be taken seriously.

[HEyHEY]

19. Yeah, that's what it is

I asked my fiancee about it, she's Chinese (actually from China) and she was mortified that these people are trying this. That said, she's a weirdo of a Chinese person.

[Odin2005]

17. Fuck their taboos. This is the 21st century!

[Tigress DEM]

20. Tolerance and self education could help this solution along.

I don't know a whole lot about the specifics, I had to look it up, but there are 3 components that I can think of and with some negotiation with the hospice and families a way could be found to keep this from becoming a shit storm.

IF there was a real committment on the part of the hospice to educate this group on our way of helping people pass on and work to address some sort of way to symbolically help them feel that our people are going to respect those who go to hospice in such a way that they won't be a problem for others, then calmer minds will probably prevail.


1) This group of people seem to venerate their ancestors and it isn't like how we suddenly get curious at some point in our life and research our Geneology. Every day some respect is paid to family members who have passed on and the cultural payoff is a continuity to family and a loyalty that is a good thing.

So there is a sense that non-Taoist people leave their family to die in other people's community space and no one will help those souls find peace so they will search for people who will. Don't have to agree with it, but show a tiny bit of restraint in your verbage.

For us if a mother or father passes on that made our life miserable we can breathe a sigh of relief and for us it's mostly over. For this group, it's still same old same old, but now since they are dead it's a whole new set of rules to make the grade with everyone watching and judging.

2) Wholistic healing in China deals with your organs and keeping the energy fields passing through them clear. A pissed off ancestor (yours or someone elses) can mess up your health and your life in their concept. Kind of like not wanting a poultry farm with it's mounds of droppings wafting fumes into your backyard. Whatever would be a really negative thing that you can't say for sure would hurt you, but still don't want to have in the near-near vicinity to your home where you go to de-stress.

3) Property values are about the feng-shui. If you look at your city ordinances you know people will pick anything and object to whatever; no culture is immune to that. But a sense of unity with all life force, beings and nature that has been around for 1000's of years really makes the Chinese look at it as a whole package of wellness. Their own, their community, their families including those who have passed.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneration_of_the_dead
http://www.tcmpage.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feng_shui

[HEyHEY]

22. Well, these are "Asians" not just chinese, first off

Secondly, as someone who lives in China, I can tell you that many people in that woman's age group are taoists the way catholics are catholics at christmas. If you think they're getting up every day and saying prayers and burnign incense you're mistaken. This is about them thinking they can take advantage of Canada's usually sympathetic ear to cultural differences to get what they really want... their property values to remain high. It's that simple.

My fiancee, from Hennan, a very traditional part of China was mortified at this. It's a scam.

[Tigress DEM]

24. OK. How can you help them "save face" then and still meet your goal?

It's kind of like when I deal with "Christians" that have all this hate mongering going on, I just keep finding stuff I know they know that paints them into a corner. Then I offer them a way out that allows for them to be people of faith and drop all the "bs" that they are dumping into the pot claiming it's Christianity.

Cool deal you living in China by the way. Must be a bit bizarre at times. My husband's friend is a college professor and he went there for an extended visit and talked to us about how where people sat in the room determined or was determined by their importance.

[HEyHEY]

25. Don't care about their face..... I know it sounds harse

But we run our government based on logic and what is best for the community. We don't make concessions for religion, so why make if for culture?

Again, I get no concessions for my culture here, I had to work on Christmas Day last year. I'm usually not one to compare ourselves to other places as our moral compass, but in this case I think it's correct.

[Bluebear]

23. Good heavens.

[pinboy3niner]

26. +1

And, apparently, even if you're a Canadian citizen, if you're not a native Canadian, you're just visiting.

[HEyHEY]

27. Hey, man if you wanna come to Canada learn the rules

And having protests to prevent the building of a place where people can die in dignity and falling back on cultural nonsense to stop the construction of one is against those rules. They are exploiting their culture to reject something good and decent. Screw that.

And I'm a huge supporter of immigration!

[pinboy3niner]

29. I've been to Canada

Had some great times with friends in Vancouver, Surrey, Vancouver Island and elsewhere.

On this local issue, I'm confident that Canadians are perfectly capable of resolving the issue, one way or the other. Those on any side of the issue have the right to conduct protests and express their views.

But telling Canadians who are not "native" to "go home" seems a bit inconsistent with support for immigration. Or does Canada have two types of citizenship--first-class and second-class?

[HEyHEY]

31. Hey

As I said, I live in China. I don't get any concessions on my culture here. Why should we give them there? I don't come here and tell them what to do either, cause they'd tell me to go home. And most of these folks may be citizens, but likely not born in Canada. Just cause you have the passport doesn't make superstitious nonsense from your homeland anymore valid.

I doubt you'd find any Canadian born Asian among that crowd. In fact I was talking to my friend today, she's a born and bred Vancouverite with Chinese parents and her comment was the same as mine.

I'm actually very pro immigration (my future wife is Chinese and I hope to bring her home with me), I'm happy to leave people to live in their own communities and not assimilate even. But, as soon as you start bringing your old school crap and using it (falsely in this case) to disrupt the attempts of the country to do something good, then yeah, get lost.

PS: Even my fiance thought these people are idiots.

[Quantess]

28. How would you feel if you were one of the dying people

going to live in the hospice, only to have protesters complaining that you are cramping their style, you on your death bed... to be told you are an unlucky omen, unwelcome in their neighborhood?

[Bluebear]

30. I would feel terrible. But you could also disagree without the ugly rhetoric of "go home, foreigner"

Yes?

[HEyHEY]

32. I didn't say "go home foreigner" I said "go home foreigner protesting a hospice"

They are saying they don't want dying people in their neighbourhood, so I'm saying I don't want rich jerks exploiting their culture and insulting sick people in my country.

[Bluebear]

34. "My country" - OK, whatever. If you could just hear yourself objectively.

[HEyHEY]

35. Okay "The country"

Sorry, but I've really lost my sympathy for this kind of stuff since moving abroad. Racism? Hate it. Anti-immigration assholes? Hate them. Do I think everyone should openly engage in their cultural activities and life? of course.

Insulting dying people by saying your culture doesn't want them around? If it's a problem then leave, I don't wanna hear it we don't do that stuff in Canada maybe you be more comfortable in a place that does.

[pinboy3niner]

33. I didn't express a position for or against the hospice

That's a local issue for Canadians to decide.

My comment was a reaction to the notion that Canadian citizens who are not "native" Canadians can be told to "go home" by those who disagree with their views on an issue. I thought a citizen is a citizen--whether native-born or naturalized.

It seems rather xenophobic to be able to tell a Canadian citizen to "go home" if the citizen happened to be born elsewhere.

[HEyHEY]

36. Maybe it is.

But I don't mind being xenophobic when it comes to people insulting the dying.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. The culture they refer to as "ours" is one in which hospices are taboo.

That suggests that they don't see themselves as entirely Canadian. There's nothing wrong with that, of course - there's no moral requirement to abandon your heritage and identity when you emigrate - but I think it does potentially make a difference as to the extent to which they are Canadian (although it's by no means the only factor).

[baldguy]

37. There are a million people around you...I got some bad news.

[Lance_Boyle]

43. Couldn't they replace the hospice with a nice woodcarving studio? n/t

[Name removed]

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