Apocalyptic GOP is dragging us to civil war

[nadinbrzezinski]

Had a friend send me this article by former Republican staffer Mike Lofgren under the subject line, "Informative reading for tonight's Republican showcase." I'm probably late in seeing it, but Lofgren's piece raises fascinating and terrifying questions about the future of our political system and the increasing possibility that we are headed toward something like a civil war, or a constitutional crisis.

Lofgren, in describing the reasons for his defection from the Republican party, describes a Republican camp that increasingly acts not like a traditional peacetime political organization, but more like an apocalyptic cult or one of the authoritarian movements from early 20th century European history.

In particular, the insane decision to turn the once-routine procedure of raising the debt ceiling (Lofgren notes it was done 87 times since WWII) into a political crisis revealed that the GOP party mainstream had sunk to the level of terrorism – holding our economic system hostage in exchange for political concessions. 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/how-the-apocalyptic-gop-is-dragging-us-into-a-civil-war-20110907

I almost expect this to be sent to the gungeon too. But we need to start facing the facts..it will be too late when the lead starts flying.

[Mr Deltoid]

1. It will come down to unions vs corporations

And in the end the unions will win. It should be Democrats against corporations, but I do not see that happening at all.

[abelenkpe]

2. +1 long road though nt

[FiveGoodMen]

3. The corporations will have Blackwater (Xe) and all its toys to use in the battle

You sure the unions will win?

[hifiguy]

11. That is why Blackwater/Xe exists

TPTB have no fail that the army will mow down the citizenry when the shit hits the fan. And for good reason, because they probably wouldn't.

They have complete faith that Blackwater/Xe WILL mow down the citizenry, and I'd bet my life that the mulitarized police will happily join them in the slaughter. Unlike the military, cops almost always see citizens as "the enemy."

[FiveGoodMen]

22. Agreed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Don't think it will be that easy of a line

But that is my opinion. But the time is comming where sides will be forced on all of us.

[Douglas Carpenter]

5. In a globalized economy union power can only decrease and corporate power can only increase.

As we see now with unions having far less power than they did forty years ago and corporations having far more. Under current configurations union power is hopelessly out muscled. However, that is not say that it is not possible for that in time to change but only in the aftermath of an apocalyptic upheaval such as a total global economic collapse and a catastrophic world war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Or labor organizing at least at continental level

If not outright international.

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. vast differences in pay scales and economic levels simply make internationalized labor organizing

impossible. In the Philippines for example 350 pesos for an eight to ten hour day (approximately $8.00)would be considered a fairly good wage for a factory worker - most certainly well above average and way above what the rural agricultural worker could ever hope to receive. Their economy and most third world economies could not possibly survive increasing their minimum wage any more than that. To do so would simply grind their entire economy to a halt and completely close down what limited indigenous enterprise is functioning at all. Yet Philippines wages and the wages in most other developing countries are still way too expensive to compete with China or India. Close to half the world lives in either China or India where there are still hundred of millions of rural peasants dreaming of working for a fraction of that amount. I just don't see any solution to this - except perhaps when energy cost make transport cost prohibitive and the globalized industrial economy simply cannot function any longer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Alas that should be the goal

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[patrice]

8. There are too many people who don't understand what that buzzzzzzz is when you feel it. There's not

enough honest self-critique and reality checking. Too many reactionaries, following other reactionaries, following whatever triggers the current jism.

I don't even think that, on an average, the majority of people in this country even authentically understand, let alone place a high priority value on, rationalism.

This is a very dangerous path.

[chrisa]

9. UnRec for "SHTF" type talk. Don't take it personally.

[pintobean]

10. It's all doom and gloom.

[patrice]

12. That's you're assumption. Others believe that real revolution begins with honest self-critique, so

it's not SHTF; it's more like let's **ALL** be courageous enough to be honest with ourselves and others.

[chrisa]

13. It's a piece based on hyperbole. Even the OP admits that it might be DUngeon material.

I've seen so many supposed "journalistic" pieces screaming that we're all going to die tomorrow that I get instantly annoyed when I see another one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Read his links

One to a GOP operative and another to one of the top political scientists in the country. Neither will say this for effect.

[patrice]

17. I can dig that! Too many of anything is cause to do a reality check. I'm just proposing

that a bit more honest OBJECTIVE analysis on all sides, but especially on one's own for how effectively that puts one into a more authentic power-position, would be a good thing.

The latest flap over the EPA smog regs is a good example of people reacting in an extreme manner to something that they quite likely had not validated with first hand resources very closely, i.e. reacting to reactions that they deny have any bias whatsoever, when, in fact, all reactions have a bias (because if there were no bias there would be no reaction). This kind of dynamic disturbs me deeply, because it undercuts whatever possibility we have of arriving at some consensus about what reality is; it just repeats the same old FAILED cognitive dynamic with different labels on it at a time when it appears that we may just possibly be running out of time.

As an example of what I'm talking about, here's Amy Goodman's staff interview on the matter of what that flap over the EPA smog regs was about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x615052

Dr. McClellan's explanation also sheds some much needed light on this administrative letter to the EPA:

http://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/USEOPWHPO/2011/09/02/file_attachments/56091/Letter.pdf

. . . and yet to see it around here, it was about the President being pro-polluter and afraid to enforce regs that some say would cost jobs. There were even calls for his impeachment over this matter. :eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Bingo, and people are afraid of that

[patrice]

21. One must show that you have the courage to do it yourself before you can use it on/with/for/against

others.

And doing so sets one on the high road, which really is a VERY good, very powerful, rhetorical advantage, because that makes your negative assessments more valid. It is possible to OWN the discourse from that position.

[SteveM]

14. We'll know when the Far Right has gained complete control of government...

...when they advocate for gun confiscation.

From the Washington Post's right-winger in residence:

"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic - purely symbolic - move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."

http://www.secondamendment.net/2amd6.htm

[Dover]

19. What if we focused instead on the real players behind the politicians...

-those entities who are backing both parties and benefiting by keeping this house divided so it can't stand together - then it would be easier to come together. I'm speaking of course of corporations. The msm can't be relied on to inform, as Assange and others have made clear. And our courts and voting apparatus are also corrupted. So social media and local efforts from the grassroots is the only means of collective change. If you'll recall, the mission is to drown the government and then fill the power gap through corporate control. BOTH parties have a hand in this shift of power and are bent on privatizing. The corporate model, no matter how benign their claims and stated intentions, is not a democratic system. Corporations are by nature profit driven hierarchies with minimal or no mechanism for input or shared power.

By the way, the kind of divisiveness that feeds their plan is very much in evidence at DU. We have to get past the "us vs. them" mentality and broaden our understanding and perspective on how we have become pawns in our own destruction. By changing our own perspectives and activities and refusing to buy into their model, we become powerful and self sustaining.

[DearAbby]

23. +1

[patrice]

26. "fill the power gap through corporate control" + ChurchCo/"Faith"-based Initiatives, which will be

guaranteed jobs, delivered by churches hand-in-hand with CoC, on the backs of the poor and suffering.

[hfojvt]

20. again, I do not know how many times I have to say it

but raising the debt ceiling has not always been routine. Check out a couple of times it happened during the Bush administration.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/149

[DirkGently]

24. It's a fair question to ask & not just based on the debt ceiling debacle. There's no more money to

steal, and we're seeing increasingly organized, naked attacks on the middle class and democracy, in order to squeeze out a few more drops of blood.

- Nationwide voter suppression.
- Union busting.
- Everything about the derivatives crash and the massive transfer of wealth from the people to the banks that caused it.
- The destruction of public education.
- A determined, sustained effort to destroy the social safety net.
- An emphasis on private security forces.
-A surge of increasingly violent, destructive rhetoric from the right and its proudly "armed" base.
- An increasingly brazen ideology that the rich will pay less and the poor and middle class will pay more. No matter WHAT.

There's a difference between shouting that the building's on fire, and noticing that someone is running around pouring gasoline and lighting matches.

[Denninmi]

27. I think we're on the brink.

The closest parallel in US history is the 1850s. In world history, Germany or Spain in the early 1930s. Of course, each event in history is unique, but there are many parallels.

Honestly, I think that there are three possible paths this country can take. One is a slow spiral into a Haiti-like society, with open oppression of the masses by the oligarchy to keep them under control. The second is an open descent into pure fascism, with Nazi style destruction of "enemies". The third possible scenario I see is a Spanish civil war scenario where right and left battle it out.

I like to think that I'm a reasonably intelligent guy. Back in the early 1990s, I told people that the US was spiraling downward economically because of anti-unionism, low wage/no benefit jobs, the attack on the social safety net, NAFTA and globalization, etc. I think I called it right. I've been watching our journey to the brink for this past decade, and I fear I have called that one right as well. Maybe I'm a doomsayer, but honestly, I can't help but think that Germany in 1930-1932 must have felt a LOT like this.

[tigereye]

29. yes their tactics seem incredibly destructive,but I wonder

if you can find similar behavior in past Congresses...

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Yup...under John Calhoun in the 1850's

Ain't that a warm fuzzy?

[tigereye]

31. ack...the arch nullifier. That kind of fits- sadly. :(

[roamer65]

32. Closest parallel is the Soviet Union after the Afghan War.

Except the Goopers think they can control the disintegration and form their little fascist heaven. Truth is if the US disintegrates, it will be pure anarchy and no one will be able to control it.