NYT: Obama Aims Economic Plans At Independents

[Maven]

Here we go again. :eyes:

WASHINGTON — By proposing a jobs package filled with items that Republicans have supported in the past, President Obama is betting that moderate and independent voters he so desperately needs in next year’s elections will flock to his camp.

The trouble is, Mr. Obama has been pursuing those voters for much of the past two years, and they have continued to drift away. His approval rating among independents plunged to 39 percent in August from 52 percent in May in a Pew Research Center poll broadly in line with other polls. Absent an improvement in the economy, there is little sign yet that Mr. Obama is gaining traction with independents.

For the president, it is the ultimate vexation: How much do moderate voters care about the specific positions a candidate takes?

Mr. Obama has managed, the pollsters say, to come out of this summer with slightly less blame among voters for the debt ceiling and budget fights than have his Congressional Republican adversaries. But his attempts to appear willing to compromise have not cut any slack with moderates and independents so far because not only has the economic picture worsened, so, too, has public confidence in Washington’s ability to fix it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/politics/08obama.html

[jtown1123]

1. Independents a.k.a "republicans who won't verbally commit" will never vote for him

he's got to stop with this shit.

Independents don't like GOP deficit reduction nonsense like cutting SS and MEdicare. Hope he's aware of that...

[FiveGoodMen]

4. He knows that.

But that's his cover for doing the bidding of the pukes.

[jtown1123]

7. Certainly. Or it's what he actually believes. He's always pushed for major spending cuts

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. If those independents and moderates had wanted to vote for someone who supported Rep. policies,

they would have voted for a Republican.

[DonCoquixote]

29. not really

The idea is that there are many republicans that are "scared" of the tea party. These are also the same types to whom Obama will always be a black man. Obama thinks he can cater to these folks, he is wrong.

[myrna minx]

3. *Sigh*

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. "Not as bad" is the aim of this bit of his campaign.

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine

[TwilightGardener]

8. This is key:

"In June, independents prioritized deficit reduction over spending to bolster the economy, 54 percent to 39 percent, according to Pew. But in a poll taken Sept. 1-4 and released Wednesday, that number had dropped to 46 percent of independents favoring deficit reduction.

“When we look at it by party, what you see is that independents don’t stand out as supporting any particular strategy to a great degree,” said the director of the Pew Research Center poll, Andrew Kohut. “So there’s no one thing he can say that’s going to set off a light bulb among independents.” Rather, Mr. Kohut suggests, what Mr. Obama must do is try many proposals, “and if he gets blocked, go negative.”


I understand what he's shooting for. I don't know if it will work or not, either in terms of actual results or in public perception, but I think his team feels that they have to try to get something passed--something that the President can defend as not being too "Democrat spendy".

[jtown1123]

9. Deficit reduction in theory is popular. When you explain how those cuts wld be administered, pple

change their tunes. Poll after poll has shown this.

What do people support? Letting the Bush tax cuts expire. That's deficit reduction that is actually popular when you spell it out.

[TwilightGardener]

12. I agree, to some extent. However, there's a natural wariness among modern

Democrats in office to raise taxes (which isn't the same as letting cuts expire, but you know the case will be made that he raised them). They don't want to be the stereotypical tax and spender. Republican framing has put Democrats in a box for a long time now. I also believe there was real hesitation to allow a tax increase when it appeared a fragile recovery was still underway at the end of 2010--didn't want to derail that, and it got derailed anyway, so he gambled and lost. People are very confused and conflicted (and sometimes ignorant and contradictory) about what they want to have happen. Obama can read and consider polls about public opinion RE spending, taxes, deficit, debt--not sure he should base strategy on them, though, since nobody knows what they fucking want beyond a better situation for themselves.

[0rganism]

20. nothing "natural" about it - 100% artificial result of careful GOP strategy

The sooner a healthy majority of Americans own up that we've been played like a harp by big money for the last 30 years, the sooner we can start repairing decades of severe economic and environmental damage.

I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.

[TwilightGardener]

21. True--I just meant that Dems are naturally hesitant now to even give the whiff

of raising taxes. In my (largely Republican) community, the uproar over any sort of new tax or tax increase is enough to silence anyone who would dare suggest that, for example, perhaps they ought to finish building the high school that was started 13 years ago.

[Maven]

14. Well that's exactly the wrong strategy because it will solve nothing

Not to mention it will come across as weak and directionless, which is how he's been perceived generally.

People want bold action and results. If he isn't creative enough to frame spending in a way that doesn't play into Republican hands, then he's totally out of his depth.

[MadHound]

10. And thus the economy is going to continue to limp along

Because Obama and the Dems don't have the political will to do what needs to be done. They are basing their actions on politics, not economic reality.

[boston bean]

11. Good luck to us all! They don't like what he's been doing, so he's going to do some more of it!

makes perfect sense...

Why didn't I think of that??

D'oh

[gratuitous]

13. At least, those who are paying attention don't like what he's been doing

So, naturally, instead of doing to the right thing (which would be summarily dismissed by the Republicans and the Wise Men of Washington as pandering to the Democratic base), the president is once again going to try to reach out to people who either (a) can't be bothered to pay attention in the first place; or (2) hate his guts and will never support any program coming out of his administration, but who are too chickenshit to self-identify as Republican with a "bipartisan" package of "compromise" proposals which will be . . . summarily dismissed by the Republicans and the Wise Men of Washington as pandering to the Democratic base.

Another brilliant maneuver by the Master Strategist!

[Vincardog]

15. Bingo. What happened to a Democratic President enacting DEMOCRATIC policies?

[TwilightGardener]

19. Which Democratic policies, specifically, can he enact now?

[Vincardog]

30. He can start by PROPOSING and STANDING by a ROBUST Jobs PLAN on the order of $1T

If the Greedy Oil and Privilege party wants to stop it let the people wee who stands on their side.

[sufrommich]

32. A 1 trillion jobs plan won't pass and most voters would not

accept it.

[Vincardog]

35. A Trillion dollar Jobs plan is a good plan. The PEOPLE would support it

[chill_wind]

26. That's it. Their #1 issue in the mid-terms was joblessness/the economy

and it's hard to see how they would feel that's improved. 2012 will tell the whole true tale.

[mopinko]

16. here we go with the spin from nyt designed to piss off the base.

lets decide what it is with our own eyes, shall we?

[gratuitous]

18. Could you please identify the Goldilocks Moment?

That is, when it's just the right time to offer criticism? Because in the past, I've had a lot of trouble with complaining too soon, then it was too late to do anything, but the moment when it was ju-u-u-u-st right seemed to slip by without any notice at all. If you could let us know ahead of time when the optimum moment arrives, I would greatly appreciate it. I think others might, as well.

[deutsey]

24. +1

[mopinko]

27. well it's certainly too late when the speech is written.

but never too soon to split the left.

[blm]

17. Independents who voted for Obama in 08 expected him to REVERSE Bush policies that failed.

They no longer expect him to do it because they believe he's been proven ineffective as a leader by a GOP unafraid to wield every ounce of power they can. They admire power and those who PROVE they'll use it. In their view they GAVE Obama a chance to use it.

[Horse with no Name]

22. He keep chasing the elusive 20 pound fish that is rumored to be "out there"

but whose existence has never been confirmed, while ignoring the thousands of fish at his feet. Pretty soon, the thousands of fish migrate to other areas.

[TheKentuckian]

23. I've got a novel idea...propose policies that have some chance of working, sell them, and run on

them.

Get your fucking fingers out of the air and push actual solutions to actual problems.
Tell the people what the obstacles to remedies are and ask for the support of all patriotic Americans in giving him a Congress that wants and is willing to solve problems, attack the opposition in their hearts by going after Reagan and BushCo, outlining how we got here.
Explain how their fucked up policies have led us to this low pass and how they have proven not to work time and time again starting before the long Depression, how we got into the Great Depression, how our manufacturing base was decimated, how our jobs are going away, throw a jab or two about needing computer support and speaking to someone half a world away when our people need those jobs, and hammer away at the obstruction and contempt have stalled about every effort to move this country forward. Speak plainly and grant no quarter instead of flailing about seeking a non-existent "center".

[Vincardog]

31. TK has it right. Unfortunately BO is constitutionally unable to firmly oppose anyone except his BASE

[sufrommich]

34. Well said. I would love to hear a speech like that. nt

[chill_wind]

25. K & R

[xchrom]

28. So much for the Democratic Party - it was nice while it lasted. Nt

[hifiguy]

33. Oy vey...

"Independent" voters are mostly indecisive idiots. They often have no idea what they want and are low-information. Playing to them will accomplish nothing. :banghead: