"We can't afford both." And not a single mention of the wars.

[woo me with science]

I guess wars are completely off the table when deciding what we can and can't afford.

Payroll tax cuts that will threaten Social Security.

"Modest adjustments" to Medicare and Medicaid.

And now the Super Theft Committee gets to go looking for LOTS MORE SPENDING CUTS in this economy.

And what did he mean by people gaining job experience by working at temporary jobs? Did he mean this, where people work for free? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1863174

Let's see how the economy benefits from all this. Let's see how hard he fights for these tax cuts for the wealthy.

[Fumesucker]

1. Everybody knows wars pay for themselves...

Or at least they do when a Democrat is POTUS, when a Republican is POTUS Democrats complain about military spending.

Funny how that works, innit?

[MineralMan]

2. Sorry. Have to unrec this.

This speech was not about that.

[Logical]

5. No surprise from you. This was about PAYING for a job program also! Get It???

[MineralMan]

7. No, it's not a surprise. Thanks for noticing me.

I thought I was pretty anonymous. Drawing down Iraqi forces to 3000 by the end of the year? Did you miss that?

[Lasher]

13. You're giving him credit for meeting the SOFA deadline negotiated by George W Bush?

Obama didn't keep his own promises for withdrawal from Iraq and he's not going to keep Bush's either. It was supposed to be zero US soldiers there by the end of this year.

[MineralMan]

15. Have it your way, then.

:shrug:

[bahrbearian]

27. Have your way, how about having it the way it was supposed to be.

No troops after the 1st of the year, not 3000 and 50,000 contractors, what are the troops going to do? protect and clean up after contractors?

[lark]

124. Yes as well as protect our oil investments

As in, Maliki, if you give the favored oil contracts to China or Russia we will take you out. Have to have boots on ground to effectively enforce the will of the real masters - the major oil companies.

:puke:

[Divernan]

107. It was on "TEH LIST" of O's supposed accomplishments. End the war/out of Iraq by end of 2011!

Disingenuous does not play here, with your refusal to acknowledge cold hard facts. But you've known that all along. Your purpose is simply to irritate with your faux obtuseness. The content/quality of your responses are as predictable as the sun setting in the evening.

[adhd_what_huh]

160. don't waste your time with the Obama haters

[cui bono]

166. No one is a hater, just a critic, as we all should be. Your dismissiveness says wonders about your

lack of critical thinking and acceptance of the facts.

[Logical]

23. While leaving over 50,000 private contractors on the payroll. Do you really....

think the $2 billion we spend a week is dropping anytime soon?

[OwnedByFerrets]

26. Ding Ding Ding...amazing how some seem to forget that little point

[bluethruandthru]

90. [phone] n/t

[Vattel]

164. yes there is reason to think we will be spending less.

Obama's FY2012 budget request for OCO in Iraq is 11 billion.

[Broderick]

46. We are merely moving forward on outsourcing

Our military to then claim we are doing a troop drawdown.

[trud]

82. MIneral Man

"Drawing down Iraqi forces to 3000 by the end of the year? Did you miss that?"

No, I didn't miss that. Did you miss the exactly offsetting increase in the Afghanistan war?

[valerief]

130. To be replaced by how many Xes? nt

[AverageJoe90]

121. Let's hope he can accomplish that.

[Hawkowl]

141. 150K contractors in Iraq

Otherwise known as mercenaries. How much do you think those cost? :puke:

[stockholmer]

142. 3000?, lolol!!, number 1, there will still be over 20,000 private contractors, number 2, the State

Department will have its own 'security' force of 6000 to 7000 http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/07/21/97915/state-dept-planning-to-field-a.html, number 3, the CIA will still have a couple of thousand, and number 4, that 3000 number is NOT flying with the Pentagon, they want upwards of 18,000.

'US military commanders, led by Gen. Lloyd Austin III, the senior commander in Iraq, are proposing that up to 18,000 US troops remain in Iraq after the year-end pull-out date. Currently, about 45,000 US troops are in Iraq.' http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2011/0907/Iraq-withdrawal-How-many-US-troops-will-remain

Add those up (lets even say that you actually do get all but 3000 official military troops out), and you come up with 32,000 plus. And if Obama caves in to the Pentagon as usual, you are looking at damn near 50,000 USA war machine personnel of one stripe or another in the country.


3000 my sweet FA.

This all will lead to this:

http://gorillasguides.com/2011/04/09/we-are-all-ticking-time-bombs/

We Are All Ticking Time Bombs

original Arabic source :

http://www.aliraqnet.net/2010-09-16-20-35-07/3821--qq-.html

الصدر يهدد برفع التجميد عن جيش المهدي في حال عدم خروج "المحتل" ويدعو لمقاومة عسكرية


Muqtada al-Sadr: "In the absence of the exit of the occupiers of the country, this will mean two things, escalation of military resistance work, and the escalation of peaceful resistance.

Hazem al-Arajii: "We are all ticking time bombs".

Who’s Hazem al-Araji? Hazem al-Araji, is the Imam of the largest Shia mosque in Baghdad. He and his brother Baha al-Araji (who leads the Sadrist bloc in parliament) are both very senior Sadrist leaders. You can take it that his "ticking time bombs" remark was cleared in advance. What else can can you take for granted?

You can take for granted that when Muqtada al-Sadr says flat out that he’ll order the resumption of military operations by the Jaish al-Mahdi if the hated American invaders don’t depart on time that he means it.

You can take it that when Hazem al-Araji says that they’re all "ticking time bombs" that he knows what he’s talking about and that he means it.

You can also take it that their audience approves, I was invited to witness the demonstration in al- Mustansiriyah Square, when the part of al-Sadr’s statement in which he discussed escalating military operations was read out there was a full throated roar of approval from the crowd the same was true when al-Araji made his ticking time bombs comment.

Finally you should not take for granted that the Jaish al-Mahdi have been inactive. They haven’t, they’ve been training. Some of them have been to training courses run by Hizbollah who, I’m reliably told, were more than pleased with their pupils’

[alfredo]

96. If the super committee fails to come to an agreement, and

it will fail, the military budget will face cuts.

[tblue]

139. Those cuts and $5 will get you a latte at Starbucks. Vent!

With soy milk and sugar-free vanilla syrup.

Jay Carney just said there's no decision yet on the drawdown. And Panetta is advising against it.

[alfredo]

143. Panetta has to say that because he is still a new guy at

the Pentagon and will have to prove himself. Anyway, part of the agreement on the debt ceiling is defense cuts if the commission fails. The Reps on the commission have shown, through their statements and past performance, they will bring the whole commission down if a rich man is inconvenienced in any way.

[chill_wind]

149. Crocodile tears

from Panetta.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1883583#top

[chill_wind]

10. He included talking points about SS and "entitlements" in his speech

and it's true - not a word about the war spending.

[MineralMan]

11. He did, yes. And I'm an SS and Medicare recipient, too.

I still call it a masterful speech. I don't agree with everything in it, but...I never agree with everything in anything.

[chill_wind]

18. It's a legitimate discussion of specific points in his speech. Whether you (or I) personally are

recipients of either program. We're talking about content. Let people decide for themselves what they think about the specifics.

[MineralMan]

19. I assume that everyone will decide for themselves what they think.

I'm writing what I think. You can write what you think. That's how this all works.

[chill_wind]

21. Then your zeal to unrec and chide certain notions of what you deem the speech was and "wasn't

about" seems a tad unjustified. It was indeed a significant point in his speech.
And there IS the very real matter of what the priorities and trade-offs are in terms of what is afforded to Americans and how it is paid for.

Actually, I didn't expect to hear him insert social security into his jobs speech tonight, but since he did, it is in fact topical.

:shrug:

[Autumn]

69. He seems to always get in republican

points somewhere in his speeches.

[fascisthunter]

88. he is a republican as far as I am concerned

[spooked911]

100. but at least he's a "moderate Republican"

:)

[indepat]

114. But seemingly light-years to the right of that of the last moderate Republican president,

Dwight D. Eisenhower, but what does a solitary progressive observer of history for more than 75 years know? Not much apparently! :patriot:

[Enthusiast]

127. If the wars only represented an honest

and noble purpose -but they do not.

[spooked911]

177. I agree totally

[SammyWinstonJack]

101. He should just admit that he is and we can go from there.

:thumbsup:

[markpkessinger]

136. I said sonmething like a couple of months ago .,..

... that he should run for the GOP nomination and free up Democrats to nominate an actual Democrat!

[cui bono]

167. I think I told him that when I was still emailing the WH.

I've long since given up.

[Wind Dancer]

109. Yes,

and probably a Trojan Horse.

[cui bono]

168. That is what I now believe. No one is that much like Charlie Brown in that position without purpose

[Romulox]

116. "EX" Republican points, you must surely mean!

:silly:

[Enthusiast]

126. Military spending was the elephant in the room

that Obama didn't mention. That is the point.

[chill_wind]

146. +1

[bahrbearian]

28. As long as you got yours, I quess it would be, how about those who don't?

[SugarShack]

120. Well then, you are in the group that he says will have NO CHANGES! Your op doesn't count.

[BiggJawn]

29. Sorry, have to cancel out your un-rec. n/t

[Maven]

31. Yes, and that's part of the PROBLEM.

Another one canceling out your unrec.

[ThomCat]

37. That's the problem.

He mentioned cutting services for seniors and people with disabilities.

He mentioned cutting the payroll tax, which will undermine services for seniors and people with disabilities even more.

But he wasn't willing to mention whether or not any cuts might come from Defense?

So far all we know is that the budget is going to be balanced on the backs of seniors and people with disabilities. We're going to be sacrificed because we don't have jobs.

Will they at least build and nice big altar and sacrifice us with style?
:grr:

Of course, he did mention 3 new free trade agreements, and we know what kind of damage even 1 free trade agreement causes the economy. So it looks like he's planning to give with one hand and snatch it right back with the other.

We'll see massive downward pressure on wages. Those jobs will all be temp jobs, and probably part time, minimum wage. We'll see more bills to lower the minimum wage in the name of being competitive in no time, and then we'll really be a 3rd world country.

[trud]

84. Let;s stop calling it the payroll tax

Let's call it what it is, the Social security tax, so it doesn't escape people's notice what he's doing.

[KansDem]

104. "Will they at least build and nice big altar and sacrifice us with style?"

Do we see a no-bid contract in Halliburton's future?

Sorry, levity sometime helps during times like these...:(

[cui bono]

169. And let's stop calling it Defense and call it Military.

People are more likely to be scared of cutting "Defense" with all the terra talk that still goes on.

[Bonobo]

67. OK to include SS talk in a "Jobs" speech, but not wars, eh?

I cancel your stupid-ass unrec.

[julian09]

105. He mentioned medicare and medicaid not ss

BECAUSE there will be others needing it after current reciepients.

[obxhead]

77. This speech was about EXACTLY that.

Every single thing in the OP was in the speech.

[truth2power]

94. Please don't nit-pick. It is related. If we we weren't fighting,

what is it, 5 needless wars, now, there would be money for jobs and infrastructure repair etc.

Pouring money down a rat-hole to enrich the MIC doesn't seem to be a reasonable plan, to me. YMMV.

[cui bono]

170. Not only to enrich the MIC but to enrich Big Oil, which doesn't need it.

They don't need our free protection. Let them pay for their own damn contractors and bombs if they want to go somewhere to get oil.

[Romulox]

115. LOL. How out of character! nt

[lark]

117. Clue

The OP knows that and this thread is directly a response to President Obama leaving this important and urgent way to save billions of $$ off the table. Duh!!!

[girl gone mad]

132. Rude.

The OP presents a valid point. I cancel your unrec.

[Lucian]

138. Obama's shill unrec'd this.

No surprise there.

[ZombieHorde]

3. War is a fetish in the US. nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. Perfect word

[Marrah_G]

4. so frustrating

[FarLeftFist]

6. You're right, let's see. Pass the Bill!

[Solomon]

20. Lol

:rofl: Nailed it!

[obxhead]

81. We'll fix it later!

[roamer65]

8. Don't worry, these bastards eventually will come up with the ultimate jobs package.

World War III.


World War II is what ended the GD, so guess where this one will be heading.

[Mimosa]

175. You may be right. n/t

[abelenkpe]

9. Bridge to Work

Bridge To Work: Obama's Plan For Long-Term Unemployed

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/08/obama-jobs-plan-bridge-to-work-program-long-term-unemployed_n_953838.html?ir=Business

WASHINGTON -- President Obama announced Thursday evening a plan to put the long-term jobless back to work by encouraging states to adopt "Bridge to Work" programs that would let businesses try out workers without having to pay them.

The scheme, which would only be open to workers receiving federal unemployment benefits, would be modeled mainly on a Georgia program designed to reduce hiring costs and make it easier for the jobless to get back to work. The program, called Georgia Works, is voluntary for workers and employers and allows businesses to train workers for eight weeks with no obligation to pay or hire.

(more at link)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[roamer65]

14. I can see businesses misusing this immediately.

Use one batch for eight weeks, then dump 'em and get another batch.

[gkhouston]

22. So, the 99ers get screwed again. Rah. n/t

[stockholmer]

148. over 7 million now have run out of UE benefits or soon will,another 1.5 million will by Nov 2012

at current job loss rates. Maybe they will start counting prison inmates making slave-labour 25 cents per hour as 'full time' workers to lower that pesky BLS UE number.

I got it! Put 4 packs of prison cigarettes in the bushel basket they use to calculate CPI!

:puke:

[DrunkenBoat]

33. He went for the slave labor option. Unbelievable.

[hifiguy]

118. Seriously, you expected anything else? nt

[TheKentuckian]

49. You are touting wage destruction and giving the greedheads that are sitting on incredible

piles of money free labor?

This piece of shit is gas on the fire that consumes us, a truly obscene idea worthy of the worst of Republicans or fucking Pollyanna fools that still kind of believe Reagan's fairy tales and/or think these companies give dry mercy fuck about the country or anything beyond the next buck.

[sad sally]

64. Looks like the Georgia Plan has some troubles - note there are only 19 trainees currently enrolled.

The program has received mixed reviews from unemployment advocates and economists though. Some question whether it really helps the jobless return to work, while others are concerned about the quality of training participants receive.

Also, the state has had to dramatically scale back the program as officials seek the money needed to continue it. Georgia Works' financial troubles began last fall when the labor department increased the stipend to $600, from $300, and opened it up to anyone without a job, not only those receiving benefits. That expansion essentially drained the programs of funds within a few months, forcing officials to cut back the stipend to $240 and restrict it once again to those getting unemployment checks.

Now, the unemployment funds used to pay the stipend must go to paying the interest on the state's loan from the federal government to cover benefits. So the department has basically stopped marketing it. There are only 19 trainees currently enrolled, down from 950 a year ago.

Since the inception of Georgia Works in 2003, more than 23,000 participants have completed training programs at more than 16,500 employers. A quarter of them were hired at the firm by the end of the eight weeks, while nearly 60% were employed somewhere within three months of completing the program, state labor officials said.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/29/news/economy/georgia_jo...

[stockholmer]

151. don't worry, it soon will be MANDATORY, and those numbers hired are bloated towards 2003-2008

Like Max Keiser always says, Americans better learn this song QUICK:

Leadbelly 'Pick A Bale Of Cotton'(1940)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CfxwnTa-6M

[davidwparker]

161. Yes. When we have another Republican-, and this time

Democratic-caused depression, our generation will be doing what my grandparents did during the Republican-caused Depression: picking cotton and digging potatoes.

Unless O can put some balls behind his speechifying, Bill and Hill may want to register in Iowa.

During the 2008 campaign, the worry from that campaign was what would happen if O got a 3am phone call. As we can see now, we've had to worry about what O does from 3:01 am to 2:59 am (i.e., all the other minutes of the day).

[cui bono]

173. That is so sad but I love what you said about all the other minutes. n/t

[JoeyT]

71. Well, he deserves some kudos for that.

I think it's quite possibly the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard come out of a politician from either party, and that's quite an impressive feat considering there was a continental drift denier.

I know, let's let companies endlessly rotate out unpaid labor so they never have to hire anyone again! I bet that fixes the economy and lowers unemployment too! It's entirely voluntary, so they can't claim we're forcing them to do it. They'll never get another job unless they do, but we won't be *forcing* them, as such. Desperate peasants are so good for business.

[krabigirl]

92. Lol, yeah, that will work out well. No wonder corporate types love Obama.

[paparush]

108. Pay attention to the language there....

"..only be open to workers receiving federal unemployment benefits.."

What about those who've expired off the rolls?

[cui bono]

171. WTF??? I'm not voting for anyone who does that. Fuck it.

[sabrina 1]

172. Corporations are going to love all that free labor.

It might even end outsourcing. Even in third world countries they have to pay their slave labor something.

Do they seriously think we are stupid?

What would I do if I were a Multi National Corp who doesn't care one bit about the country I am doing business in? If they offered me this deal? I would take it! FREE labor, not even cheap labor. Is there a chance in hell any of these people will be hired for a real salary? Not so long as the next group of free laborers is ready and waiting.

A truly Machiavellian and cynical plan to take advantage of people who are out of work. It really gets more and more sickening every day. America For Sale!

I wonder which Corporation came up with that idea? I'm sure just for proposing it, he will get a very nice donation from whoever did.

[wisteria]

12. This was a speech about the millions of American's hurting because they don't have a job,

are working part-time or temp. A talk about the cost of our engagements would not of been appropriate. And, as one of those still hurting because of this economy-I find your post hurtful.

[EFerrari]

32. As another underemployed American, I want to know why Obama is in six

wars but has no real plan to generate the jobs we need.

[DrunkenBoat]

35. Me too. "Hurtful"? wtf?

[roamer65]

44. After hearing about more tax cuts and spending cuts tonite...

that is it. No way is he getting my vote in 2012.

[Dragonfli]

65. He has a plan, a near perfect one borrowed from

the smartest guys in the country http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1905093

[woo me with science]

66. [phone] Republican policies through and through.

It is sick-making and sad beyond words to see Democrats actually *cheering* this SS and Medicare-destroying Republican assault.

[dflprincess]

34. Given that he plans to pay for any new programs by making cuts elsewhere,

it would have been entirely appropriate to discuss the cost of his wars.

[area51]

56. +1 n/t

[dkf]

16. Hello... the baseline already assumes the wars are cut by $1 trillion.

How many times must I post this?

[Hydra]

47. You can keep doing it until it actually happens

Which will be sometime between doomsday and never. Why? Because war is profitable to the people making the campaign donations. The Presidency is a bought and paid for position now. Thank Citizens United, Scotus and your friendly neighborhood Capitalists.

[dkf]

58. The funding is already assumed to be cut. If they keep it, they are off track.

[Hydra]

59. We're also supposed to be leaving Iraq and Afghanistan

That somehow just didn't happen. Coincidence? Besides, for off track, we're talking about cutting SSI, Disability, Medicare and Medicaid while expanding our theaters of operation militarily. Off track? You betcha!

[dkf]

62. Yet we have been reducing troops

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/US-Continues-Troop-Drawdown-in-Iraq-Despite-Dilemma-129488313.html

[Hydra]

63. Sure, but not even to pre-surge levels

Meanwhile, we have more "contractors" in Iraq than soldiers, and we have plenty of those too...in a "training" role.

We're not leaving. the DOD is not losing their almost $1 trillion a year subsidization...but the solders might get retirement and VA cuts. Cool, huh?

[Autumn]

145. Post it until it's a done deal, until then, the wars are NOT

cut by $1 trillion. An old saying. Assumption is the Mother of all fuck ups.

[chill_wind]

17. Cost of war in lost jobs and DOD spending over all

Key findings:

War spending created fewer jobs over the last decade than would have other forms of federal spending

This is because war spending is less labor-intensive and more often goes overseas

An additional 300,000 jobs per year could have been created in construction

Instead, an additional 900,000 jobs per year could have been created in education

One and a half times as many jobs could have been created in home weatherization

More in report at the link: http://costsofwar.org/article/lost-jobs

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other costs and treade-offs (DOD spending) just for 2012 alone:

Taxpayers in The United States will pay $553.0 billion for proposed Department of Defense for FY2012. For the same amount of money, the following could be provided:

283.5 million Children Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year
OR
8.1 million Elementary School Teachers for One Year
OR
9.3 million Firefighters for One Year
OR
72.8 million Head Start Slots for Children for One Year
OR
238.5 million Households with Renewable Electricity - Solar Photovoltaic for One Year
OR
500.9 million Households with Renewable Electricity-Wind Power for One Year
OR
70.9 million Military Veterans Receiving VA Medical Care for One Year
OR
113.7 million People Receiving Low-Income Healthcare for One Year
OR
8.0 million Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officers for One Year
OR
70.1 million Scholarships for University Students for One Year
OR
99.6 million Students receiving Pell Grants of $5550

http://nationalpriorities.org/en/tools/tradeoffs/state/US/program/14/tradeoff/0

[hifiguy]

119. You just won the thread,

demolished the apologists and proved your point spectacularly. :applause: :yourock:

[chill_wind]

144. Appreciated hifiguy. *The giant elephant in the room*, as someone upthread

put it. Incredibly depressing.

[Enthusiast]

129. Nice!

Great perspective.

[woo me with science]

162. Marvelous post.

Thank you so much for posting this. You should make it an OP.

[Mimosa]

176. Chill_Wind, that's an awesome article and link, of course. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

24. knr nt

[Raine]

25. There's always money for what they want, like wars

[Solomon]

41. and when he tries to give us

Money, you guys shoo it away.

People complained to hell about bail outs to corporations and Wall street. When he tries to do something for working people, you don't want it. Well I do want the fucking bridges roads and schools repaired.

[trud]

87. Solomon

He's trying to do something for working people? I missed that, please elaborate. Money to corporations, Wall street, and wars is not money to working people.

[Solomon]

158. That's the point I'm making!

They bailed out the banks and wall street so we wouldn't go over a financial cliff.
Everybody yelled and whined about it, me included, with cries of "where's the help to the working class"

And then we tries to do that, people here proceed to tear it apart rather than take what you can get right away, and then continue fighting for the rest

It's like a thirsty man in the desert, refusing to drink the water that's in the glass, because the glass is not full of water.

Idiotic imo.

[xiamiam]

30. i didnt listen to the speech but i came here looking for the content

and whether the waste on wars would be addressed..until it is, we're all lying to ourselves..thanks for posting this

[jaxx]

36. Unrec

This is just the same old gripes we see everyday here.

[tkmorris]

42. If so, they are no less true for that

Nickel and diming the sick and the aged while spending untold billions on an unnecessary war machine makes me question what our priorities are.

[amborin]

38. kr

[Octafish]

39. We're lucky to have the wars.

Imagine what unemployment would be without them.

[grahamhgreen]

54. Well if the money was spent building alternative energy, much better.

[Octafish]

68. Agree. Sorry, I was being facetious.

Among the reasons I voted for Obama are his stated goals of instituting fiscal policies that would benefit ALL the people. These included plans to boost employment, build clean renewable energy systems, and help protedt the environment. Over the last three years, I've been reduced to hoping to catch a nice re-run of The West Wing on the tee vee.

[Autumn]

70. Which is probably why they keep the wars going on.

It's all about political survival. Obama will never end the best jobs program he has going on.

[ProSense]

40. What

"'We can't afford both.' And not a single mention of the wars."

...are you suggesting: that he should have stated that we need to end the wars in order to pay for tax breaks for oil companies and the rich and teachers' jobs?

I rather the President's plan: end the oil subsidies and tax cuts for the rich to pay for teachers' jobs.

There comes a time when the point made is good enough, actually best, and doesn't need to be convoluted.

The wars are ending, the baseline already includes defense cuts.

[Fumesucker]

48. They might be miserable little wars..

But they're the only wars we have, we should cherish and nurture them.

[ProSense]

51. Here's

"But they're the only wars we have, we should cherish and nurture them."

...another idea, end them:

- In June 2009, U.S. Forces occupied 357 bases. U.S. Forces currently occupy 121 bases, and are expected to reduce that number to 94 bases by the end of August.

link

Operation New Dawn began with 94 military sites in Iraq, in September 2010. Today, that's down to 48 sites. Seven more sites will shut down in August, Richardson said.

more

On June 22, 2011 the President addressed the American people about the way forward in Afghanistan. We have made substantial progress on the objectives the President laid out at West Point in 2009, and he made clear that we will begin the drawdown of U.S. troops from a position of strength. We have exceeded our expectations on our core goal of defeating al-Qa’ida – killing 20 of its top 30 leaders, including Osama bin Laden. We have broken the Taliban’s momentum, and trained over 100,000 Afghan National Security Forces. The U.S. will withdraw 10,000 U.S. troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2011, and the 33,000 “surge” troops he approved in December 2009 will leave Afghanistan by the end of summer 2012.

link

It's surprising that anyone would take issue with the President calling for ending oil subsidies and tax cuts for the rich, but suppose that's how outrage for the sake of outrgage goes.

[Fumesucker]

If I post something criticizing Republicans I get no responses..

If I post something critical of Obama I get swarmed.

If you actually cared about people being critical of Republicans you'd support those efforts, I don't see that, what I see is you berating anyone who dares to be at all to the left of Obama.

IMO your efforts are counterproductive, you drive away more people than you bring in with the tactics you use.

[ProSense]

55. Wait

"If I post something criticizing Republicans I get no responses..

If I post something critical of Obama I get swarmed.

If you actually cared about people being critical of Republicans you'd support those efforts, I don't see that, what I see is you berating anyone who dares to be at all to the left of Obama.

IMO your efforts are counterproductive, you drive away more people than you bring in with the tactics you use."

...you're a victim? Isn't the first comment in this subthread mine? How many other people have responded to it and to your comment?

[Fumesucker]

57. As I said, you're far more interested in people critical of Obama..

Than you are people critical of Republicans.

I posted a really strong critique of Rick Perry and the revolting basis of his appeal to Republican Primary voters early today, the cricket chorus was deafening.

I post a sardonic aside on an Obama thread and you will pursue me to the end of time.

:hi:

[tgal]

153. That is the point

You get it, I am starting to figure this out.

"you drive away more people than you bring in with the tactics you use."

Exactly their point.

[Fumesucker]

174. Watch this thread, brilliantly critical of Rick Perry and it will sink like a stone..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1911880

No one who constantly berates anyone even slightly to the left of Obama will post on that thread, or even rec it for that matter.

[Broderick]

78. A question on that

How does that relate to the growth in Big Corporations taking over many of the roles as outsourced military? Like Blackwater, etc. They seem to be hiring quite a bit over here and I keep getting glimpses in reports that contractor forces are growing over there?

[Broderick]

43. What wars??????

You know we only have wars and troops dying when a president has an R behind his name. Let's stop being silly. Jeez.





:sarcasm:

[robinlynne]

45. problem is the super committee is going to recommend the cuts. that is what 8 republicans, 4 dems?

[Poll_Blind]

50. Those? Oh those are old musty nothings. Not important. Unless you knew this fellow:

He died last Saturday in Afghanistan. His name was Christopher Scott and he was in the Army. I don't know him. Do you? I'll bet a lot of people did, though, and they're tearing their hair out in grief over his loss. He should never have passed. Not like that.

Would he and I have hit it off if I had met him? Maybe. One thing I can say is that I would have something to say to him, if we did meet: "Thank your for your service" and let him know that people like him should be treated with more care and respect.

He was willing to put his life on the line to defend his country. That's what a soldier does.

I try to stop him and hundreds of thousands like him from being unnecessarily put into harm's way. I'd like to think that that's what a responsible citizen does.

Because people like Mr. Scott are a valuable national commodity, a national treasure as the late Senator Byrd said, and we should not waste such treasure on meaningless wars.

PB

[Amonester]

60. +infinity, and RIP Cristopher Scott, and all the others like him, like the SEALs, and all

And for WHAT? (exactly?)

What a total waste.

Tell all congresscriters they are responsible for it, and that their responsability is to cut funding and bring them home!


Thanks for posting.

[abelenkpe]

131. Every once in a while there will be a tribute to all the soldiers lost in our

unnecessary wars on the beach at Santa Monica. Rows and rows of crosses for each person killed. My seven year old son asked me about it recently. I told him each cross represents a person killed in war, a family grieving for their loss, a hole cut through a community so that rich corporations can corner resources in a foreign country and sell them back to us at profit. That many would prefer that we give those same kids who become soldiers jobs here developing sustainable energy like solar and wind power but that the same corporations who profit from resources found abroad have a heavy influence on our government. That is what it all really comes down to for me. We have the brains and ability to pursue alternative energy, to end our need for resource wars, to grow our families and society, to protect the environment and it is shameful that we let a few powerful and greedy people stop us from doing that. I used to think democrats supported ending war, protecting the environment and developing alternative power. Not so sure anymore...

[Poll_Blind]

156. Indeed. I'm not so sure about anything, anymore. n/t

PB

[grahamhgreen]

52. He wants to "cut payroll taxes in half".

[deutsey]

53. Our lords and masters are handsomely profiting from them so what's the problem?

:evilfrown:

[and-justice-for-all]

61. Our continued overseas occupations are the primary drain.nt

[Lorien]

72. It's vile. 2012 isn't going to be pretty for anyone but the wealthiest

I can't believe that the cheerleaders are still having orgasms whenever he opens his mouth. They don't listen to what he says at all; policy means squat to them.

[woo me with science]

73. +100000 This is a Republican plan, and a Republican Presidency.

This is the Chamber of Commerce plan, slightly tweaked. It is one more step in the assault on Social Security and Medicare.

And people here are cheering?

What the hell has happened to our party? :puke: :nuke:

[xiamiam]

102. starstruck..he is charismatic and has a great smile..nt

[Divernan]

112. Ah yes, those true believers who think he's their knight in shining armor.

Cue the Disney chorus: "Someday, my prince will come . . . ."

Well Election Night was the equivalent of Cinderella's ball. Midnight has come and gone and guess who turned into a frog. Every time he waxes eloquent speechifying, all I hear is "Ribet. Ribet. Ribet."

[SugarShack]

122. Yep...straight out of the Chambers of Commerce

[Jim_Shorts]

106. If you just hear his tone & delivery and ignore past promises, his speech was perfect

I would be happy if Obama was even a speed bump on this road to destroy the middle class and pummel the poor by this corpratocracy.

While Barack has his campaign shoes on in public, behind the scenes he is pressuring the Super Duper Committee to cut as much as possible, including social programs.

Obama said "this isn't class warfare" but it is and the Economic Royalists side is just picking up steam.

[joeybee12]

75. Amazing, and people think this was a great speech and was "progressive"

Some people never learn.

[Zorra]

76. "And not a single mention of the wars."

Straussians are not in any way concerned with morals and ethics.

Their philosophy is to deceive and lie to the masses in service to plutarchs. In their eyes, if peasants get sick and die, it's one less loser taking up air and space. The murder of peasants is of no consequence, and does not have to be justified, particularly in war, because war is a service designed to increase the comfort and profits of plutarchs.

I sincerely hope that our President is not a follower of the philosophy of Leo Strauss.

[Enthusiast]

133. Whatever his ideology is, it

is carefully hidden from view. Straussian is the most likely as fascism is often rooted in deep racial hatred. He sure doesn't want us to know what it is.

[Myrina]

79. If anyone has any doubts now that he's Repub Lite ...

... I really want some of what they're smoking.

[SugarShack]

123. It's "hopium" and it's has not worn off everyone yet.....

[JEB]

80. I'm becoming cynical.

I'm sorry to say that I think this jobs program is more about electoral politics than anything to actually create jobs...kind of like claims of ending our wars of aggression.

[spooked911]

97. ding ding ding

we have a winner

[xiamiam]

140. he has begun his 2012 campaign..nt

[LarryNM]

152. 2012 Congressional and State Elections Are the Important Things

Gaining control of House while keeping Senate, hopefully with a good number of real Dems/Progressives, will be our best defense/offense against Corporatist agendas regardless of who is POTUS until we can get a favorable Candidate into the White House. Progressive Ideas/Ideals are under Attack and We must act accordingly.

[sarcasmo]

83. War and Greed good, social programs bad, the new American morals.

[NorthCarolina]

85. Social Safety Net or Wars against 'TERROR'? We can't afford both! nt

[russspeakeasy]

86. Good for you woo...I thought my thinker was broken...

:toast:

[mother earth]

89. The elephant in the room are the 2 wars we got lied into.

You are absolutely correct, to not mention one thing about the incredible drain continued war is wreaking on this nation is shameless. No doubt the super committee will forget it too. K & R

[krabigirl]

91. Also, the four other wars we are involved in.

[mother earth]

95. Is it 6 now? This is what I mean, there's no end in sight.

[spooked911]

98. yes, I hope you will protest on October 6th

http://october2011.org/welcome

[mother earth]

178. I hope this and every progressive website joins in that event

online and physically if possible.

[DeSwiss]

93. K&R

We all know that massive cuts to defense spending could free up the funds to pay for universal healthcare across the board and actually lower taxes in the process.

We also know that by eliminating the CIA and Homeland Insecurity, we could provide the funds necessary to have improved education and less expensive education for colleges and universities.

We all know that by pledging the funds to alternative energy, we could wean ourselves off of oil once and for all while retaking the lead in advanced technologies.

We all know that ending the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq while simultaneously closing all of our imperial bases abroad would make the U.S. as well as the rest of the world a much safer place to live in.

We all know that by increasing corporate taxes and taxes on the wealthiest Americans, we could seriously tackle the problems of poverty and unemployment.

"But none of these issues are even mentioned by any of the candidates. No such visions are forthcoming simply because these are messages that corporate America don't permit corporate media to address. The end result is Americans being stuck with the current broken system while misdirecting their anger with the help of the mainstream media."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/11/07-3">~Space Cadet - November 7th, 2010 - Common Dreams

[spooked911]

99. Protest the madness! http://october2011.org

http://october2011.org

[a2liberal]

103. K&R (n/t)

[Wind Dancer]

110. K&R n/t

[gtar100]

111. That's because the US Military no longer protects the US.

It feeds off of it.

[Enthusiast]

134. While the military feeds off the U.S. it

protects and furthers the interests of powerful multinational corporations. This is the very definition of fascism.

[AntiFascist]

113. It's obvious that everyone in Washington favors Military Socialism....

over anything else that even looks like a social program.

[chill_wind]

150. Military Socialism and Corporate Fascism

Working out very well for the rich and the ruthless. The other 95% not so much.

[AntiFascist]

157. At the risk of reinforcing Godwin's law....

with the wrong Republicans (or others) in power, it could become like the Nazi Party but without the extreme brutality of Hitler. Everyone else serves at the pleasure of those at the very top of The Party.

[Enthusiast]

125. K&R! Wars of choice and wars of

unnecessary aggression.

[go west young man]

128. Stop the wars, tax the rich, prosecute the banks, give the money to the fucking people.

There! Fixed it.

[Enthusiast]

135. That would fix it......nt

[Raster]

155. Hear! Hear!

[wial]

137. would be nice if there were a pledge

for candidates swearing they will vote for all military budget reductions. Which document could someday be applied to Grover Norquist forcibly, once America is free of the military-industrial-congressional complex again.

[Plucketeer]

147. Anyone remember....

W's fantasies about how Iraqi oil was gonna foot the bill for our war on them??? Where was Joe Wilson then???

[Raster]

154. I will recommend this post. Social Security is paid for by the people.

The United States Government has no business doing anything with SS except administration. Lift the cap, and fund it fully for decades to come.

Allow Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate with the for-profit providers for the best prices, including negotiating for drugs in bulk.

No further tax cuts for wealthy. Main Street has paid far more than it's fair share. It's time for Wall Street to ante up.

Eliminate any mortgage interest deduction on any but primary homes. No vacation homes. No third cottage by the beach.

And finally, END THE FUCKING WARS!

[WillyT]

159. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

163. And not a mention of the wars.

That really sums up the speech, as well as our problem as a country. Not a mention of the wars..

[Dragonfli]

165. We have always been at war with (fill in the blank) and the Chocolate ration is to be raised! /nt