The DoD And Air Force Want This $243 Million Dollar POS

[unhappycamper]

unhappycamper note: Since the ‘Pentagon’ (DoD? Gannett?) has ‘requested’ that I only post one paragraph from articles on Army Times, and Airforce Times, To keep in that same (new) tradition, I will also do the same for for articles on Navy Times, Marine Corps Times, stripes.com and military.com.
To read the article in the military's own words, you will need to click the link.

Read all about Fair Use here. It sure is beginning to smell like fascism.

unhappycamper summary of this article: Lockheed is digging in for the long haul.





The initial opearting capability date for the Air Force version of the F-35, shown above, likely will slip even further, Air Force Secretary Michael Donley said Jan. 12.


Donley: IOC for F-35A probably will see delay
By Dave Mujumdar - Defense News
Posted : Wednesday Jan 12, 2011 13:23:41 EST

The initial operational capability date for the Air Force version of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is likely to slip due to recent program changes to help right the troubled tri-service effort, Air Force Secretary Michael Donley said Wednesday during an Air Force Association-sponsored breakfast with reporters.

[Catherina]

1. Let them hold a bake sale. rec'd n/t

[Statistical]

2. Where do you get your pricetags from? On almost every single weapon system it is some random number

Pricetag of the F-35 is $130 million each. Now that is an insanely large number. No need to pad it.
The budget for entire program is $323 billion over 2443 aircraft.

[unhappycamper]

3. Here's where that numbah came from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8124128#8124155

[Statistical]

4. Well that is a whole bunch of bogus assumptions.

http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-100128-072.pdf

In 2011. The AF will receive 22 aircraft for $4.07B giving a unit cost of $182 million.
Once production ramps up that price will fall. There has never been a contract where price rose 50% after the first year production run.

Another couple of datapoints is the price that Lockheed is selling exports to other countries (roughly $140 mil ea).
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/stealth-fighters-cheap-at-140m/story-e6frf7l6-1225909569574
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20100904.aspx

Lastly Lockheed interest in moving to a fixed cost contract indicates there belief they can produce the aircraft far cheaper
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0111242120100601?type=marketsNews

In a fixed cost Lockheed pricetag to the US would be fixed and only adjusted by inflation. Lockheed could potentially make a larger profit if the difference between its build cost and the fixed fly away cost is greater than the markup in the current cost-plus contract.

I am glad you admit your $243 million pricetag is simply a price you made up. That would be consistant with all the other pricetags you post.

The funny thing is I am not sure why you do it. $130 million vs $243 million, to most people they are both insanely large and difficult to comprehend numbers. One just happens to be accurate. I doubt the story comes off any more "excessive" by using the false bloated number. In other words I doubt there would be anyone who thinks $130 mil is reasonable but you would convince them it is unreasonable with the $243 mil number.

What is more insane to me isn't the per unit pricetag but the total pricetag. $323 billion! Roughly $1000 per person from every man, woman, and child in the country.

[DCKit]

6. IMO, even at $20 million a pop, they're too expensive to send into a fight.

Think about it.

[Statistical]

7. Why? Every fighter we have built in the last 40 years was more than $20 mil a pop.

A lot depends on kill ratios. If the enemy is fielding $20 mil planes and you are fielding $80 mil planes but you achieve 20:1 kill ratios than it is fine. If your economy is 10x the enemy than it works out even more in your favor.

[DCKit]

8. Alternatively, we could send up 100x more pilots in these:

[Statistical]

9. True. Actually I think the F-22 and F-35 will be the last "traditional jets".

Drones will continue to gain grown, getting more complex.

There are two costs when a jet is shot down. One is the material cost but the second is the pilot cost. The lost training and expertise has a tangible cost. Drones reduce the cost of each "jet". They also eliminate the "pilot loss".

Those two combined will see air combat eventually evolving into drone swarms. Where a single "pilot" controls a swarm of drones working together to engage target. The swarm could even "sacrifice" individual drones to eliminate threats. i.e. air superiority swarm, sends couple drones on "suicide" run to close and detonate near enemy jets.

The ability to never lose pilots when individual drones "die" will change everything.

[Ezlivin]

5. Keeping this POS is sacred in the D/FW area

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram has articles weekly on how important this program is and how it keeps jobs in the area. Our senators are "fighting" to "keep this vital program" going.