When Will America Start Seeing Economic Refugees?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Maybe Canada will need a fence to keep Americans out.

[teddy51]

1. Corporations, The very Rich, and Repugs would like to see the US become a 2nd Mexico.

I think they are well under way with this plan.

[Warpy]

10. In the meantime, Mexico's economy is starting to improve

while a handful of obscenely rich men try to push us into being a third world hellhole of a country.

[Romulox]

19. Exactly this. Mexico is the model for the new US. nt

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Emigres?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Yes

.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Every day.

Just like always.

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. People Are Really Leaving This Land Of Opportunity

:sarcasm:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. They're staying in droves, too.

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Most People In Haiti Are Staying In Droves, Too

.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Indeed.

[kenny blankenship]

4. America will refuse to see them, just as Mexico refuses to see theirs

Canada will be the one seeing them.

(If you're going, get out now. Soon it'll be too late.)

[Fumesucker]

8. We've been seeing economic refugees for a long time..

http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe30s/water_06.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I Am Referring To Folks Leaving The Entire Country

.

[Fumesucker]

15. To go where?

If you are wealthy you can go other places, some educated people are welcome, it helps to be young in both cases.

Other than that there really isn't room for very many Americans in other nations.

[Hart2008]

17. Asia and Europe

Many young college grads are taking jobs teaching English in China, Korea, and other places in Asia. For those with student loan debt and who are unable to find a job in the U.S., they don't have a choice.

Some people are asserting dual citizenship rights to return to Europe. Studying one's genealogy can result in surprising discoveries, because most of Europe does not award citizenship by accident of birth, nor recognize it. In the EU a citizen of one nation has the right to establish his/herself in any other EU nation. Many find that although the taxes are higher and they might need to live in smaller apartments, that their quality of life is better. If an American marries a European citizen, they have similar rights to residency to live with a spouse.

[Fumesucker]

18. As I pointed out that's an option for the young..

For the middle aged and older it's not a realistic alternative.

[Hart2008]

20. I also know middle aged people who have "outsourced" themselves.

Many Americans become expats after retirement. They find countries where the cost of living is cheaper and supplement their retirement working in a less stressful environment teaching.

[Fumesucker]

21. And I know people who have built multi-million dollar businesses.

So of course anyone and everyone can build a multi-million dollar business, right?

[Hart2008]

22. Ah, an invitation to compare apples and oranges. Your fallacy doesn't work.

What is needed for people to become expats isn't business skills but a passport, and the ability to get a visa. China and Korea will hire English teachers with only a university degree, which need not be in linguistics or English. Many people have those.

There are many retired U.S. citizens who can live abroad if they choose.

You fallacy doesn't work.

[Fumesucker]

23. Trying to imply that moving overseas is the answer for older Americans is the fallacy..

Only a small percentage of older Americans will be able to take advantage of living overseas, to even imply otherwise is profoundly dishonest.

[Hart2008]

24. Fallacy refers to an illogical appeal to emotion or prejudice, not unsupported assertions like yours

Support your argument.

[Fumesucker]

25. I already won the argument..

You claimed that moving out of the US was a practical alternative for older Americans, that's only true for a small percentage and that percentage will be ever shrinking as the economic downturn accelerates our misery.

ETA: Not to mention the fact that "refugee" and "retiree" are two entirely different terms with entirely separate meanings.

This OP was originally about "refugees" and you have turned it into an argument over "retirees".

[Hart2008]

26. Anyone with a fixed income sufficient to support themselves can get residency in most of Europe.

Some move to Latin America, or Asia where their retirement money goes further.

Now, not all will want to do that. They may prefer to stay near their family, but it is a practical solution for those who choose to do it.

Your argument rests on nothing but your own ipse dixit and comparing apples to oranges.

You have no facts, and you have no argument.

[Fumesucker]

27. Your stipulation narrows down the overseas choices just as I said..

"Anyone with a fixed income sufficient to support themselves ".

That's a not particularly large and indeed rapidly shrinking portion of the population, exactly as I have already pointed out multiple times now.

[Hart2008]

29. That was just one example, not narrowing anything down. Examples are not stipulations!

Every retired person collecting social security has an income, and that income will go further in other parts of the world.

Middle age people can and do relocate to Asia, Europe and the Middle East. Many do it.

What appears to be narrow is your mind.

[Safetykitten]

13. Walk in to a big box store. They say hello to you right there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Are You Refererring To People Coming Or Going?

I am referring to the latter...

[Spike89]

16. Good jobs leave, but they don't go anywhere

Offshoring isn't helping at all, but it isn't the big player in the job loss scenario. Even when a company like Ford closes a plant in the U.S. and opens one in Mexico, more often than not, the new plant will be more automated to require fewer (sometimes far fewer) and less skilled employees. So, we lose 1,000 jobs in the US, Mexico picks up 750 new jobs at 1/2 the average salary. Not exactly a big gain for the Mexicans, even though it is a huge blow to us.
The automobile industry isn't even the most affected by automation. I've seen a single man running a log harvester machine basically do in an hour what a dozen well-paid loggers would need a full day to do just a decade ago. The log harvester operator is safer (and maybe even less skilled than most loggers) and therefore likely to get paid less. In ideal conditions, a logging company could pay for the machine almost immediately. Freight trains can be gang-operated from a remote terminal--what was once a trained crew of 3-4 per train is now .2 semi-skilled operator per train (assuming 5 trains per operator, but they can handle more).
You can chase the jobs to Mexico, Canada, China, anywhere you want--you won't catch them any more than you're likely to catch a rainbow by running toward it.

[DrunkenBoat]

28. what do you think americans in mexico are a lot of the time? they go there to be able

to live adequately on their retirement, get medical care, etc.

[LadyInAZ]

30. lol too funny... but possible reality