The voice mails of Charles Habermann, the $3 million trust funder who threatened Rep. McDermott

[brentspeak]

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/01/12/the-voice-mails-of-charles-habermann-the-man-accused-of-threatening-to-kill-congressman-jim-mcdermott

During a conversation with FBI agents last month, according to the complaint, "Habermann stated that he never had any intention of hurting anyone, and that he had too much to lose—referring to his $3,000,000 trust fund—to ever do anything that would get him sent to prison."

Hey I was going to McDermott my name’s Charles uh, Habermann, uh my number is 312-59 uh, 312-59X-XXXX. I was calling Jim McDermott because I saw him on television the other night and I realized what a disgusting, filthy, murderous cock-sucker he was. What a criminal was, the idea that he said that uh, poor people’s uh, money, poor people’s money that the Government gives belongs to him. That, that, that, that reducing taxes on rich people is, is in effect a tax cut in effect, it effected the Government spending program. Jim, Jim McDermott’s uh, theft of tax payer dollars, the less he steals, means that the, that the less the Government spends. Uh, I, I, I’d like to remind you McDermott that if you read the constitution all the money belongs to the people. None of it belongs to Government. Okay! So, if Jim McDermott says they’re spending money on a tax cut, he’s a piece of human dog shit, okay. He’s a piece of human filth. He’s a liar, he’s a communist, he’s a piece of fucking garbage. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, if any of them had ever met uh, uh Jim McDermott, they would all blow his brains out. They’d shoot him, in the head. They’d kill him, because he’s a piece of, of, of disgusting garbage. He’s a piece of filth. He’s a criminal. He advocates stealing people’s money to give it to losers. That’s a criminal conspiracy to commit fraud, okay., That is what the majority of the democratic party engage in every day of every week of every fucking year because they’re scum bags. They are disgusting filthy fucking scum bags. And you let that fucking scum bag know, that if he ever fucks around with my money, ever the fuck again, I’ll fucking kill him, okay. I’ll round them up, I’ll kill them, I’ll kill his friends, I’ll kill his family, I will kill everybody he fucking knows. Alright! So if you want to fuck with me, you go ahead but you let that fucker know, the next time he fucks around, I’ll kill him, okay! Good night and good bye, you fucker.

Then, ten minutes later, at 12:10 a.m. on Dec. 10, according to the complaint:

My name is Charles Char Habermann, my phone number is 312-59X-XXXX. I’m calling because your congressman is a piece of human garbage. Um, I’m calling because your congressman is, is a communist. I’m calling because your congressman is a piece of filth. Um, does he understand when he says that they’re giving money to tax breaks for rich? Does he understand that, that the wealthy people that, that’s their money? They earn that money. Has he ever read “Federalist Paper Number Ten”? Has he ever read John Lock’s “Second Treaties of Government”? Has he ever read the of property section of John Lock’s “Second Treaties of Government?” No, probably not because he’s not an intellectual, he doesn’t understand the rules and the political theory that set up the basis for our Government. That’s why he thinks he can steal money from people and give it away to losers and get away with it. Well guess what, you’re crooked, criminal, cock-sucking Jim McDermott will never get away with it. And I’ll tell you something right now, I’ll fucking hunt that guy down and I’ll fucking get rid of him. Do you understand that? I’ll get the fuck rid of him. I’ll pay people, I’ll pay my friends, I, I grew up in Chicago just like your scum bag fucking Jim McDermott did. I grew up in downtown Chicago, you understand that? Does, does your fucking boy understand that? I grew up in Chicago just like him. But guess what, I’m not a criminal like he is, I’m not a thief like he is. I don’t steal other people’s money to give it to losers like he does. Your congressman, Jim McDermott is a piece of garbage. And I’ll tell you something right now, garbage belongs in the trash that’s exactly where he’s gonna end up. You understand that? You understand it you fuckers? You worthless stupid Democrat cock-sucking fuckers. You think you can steal my money and get away with it? You think you’re gonna steal my fucking money and get away with it, you fuckers. You people are criminal scum bags and I ha, I hate you. I hate Jim McDermott. I have your friends, I hate his family, I hate his kids, I hate every, everybody fuck…do you know, I could round them all up, you know, I could look for them. I got a lot of money, you understand? I got a lot of money and I got a lot of friends and that cock-sucker is going down, you understand it? Your cock-sucking loser is going down, and guess what, tell your fagot fucking friend, I’m from Chicago too, and I fucking take care of his ass. Good bye, mother fucker!

[Kingofalldems]

1. It wasn't political though, and we should just forget about it

[justiceischeap]

2. He's obviously mentally ill

Do we know anything about this guy other than he's a greedy millionaire who thought he could threaten someone to save his greed?

[rurallib]

3. Going to lose his trust fund over this.

Now that is funny in a just desserts kind of way.
Hey, Charles Char Habermann, you may be qualified for a minimum wage job. Bet you worked hard to keep those wages down! Hope you enjoy trying to live on them.

[Wickerman]

4. I'd like to sugges that Mr. Habermann invest some of his 3 million

in some anger management therapy.

I don't suppose you have to be completely unhinged to be a Tea Bagger, but it would certainly help.

[malaise]

7. You mean what's left after the lawyers take their cut

and he still heads to prison. :rofl:

[Ghost in the Machine]

5. So, he admits he is just like most other repugs..

a fucking loudmouth douchebag who cowers down when confronted. A classic example of "alligator mouth with a canary ass". Piss off, little douchebag, enjoy prison!

[Enrique]

6. The founding fathers would have shot McDermott?

all of them?

Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, or George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, if any of them had ever met uh, uh Jim McDermott, they would all blow his brains out. They’d shoot him, in the head.


I think the Founding Fathers would have washed this guy's mouth out with soap. :spank:

[NBachers]

8. Just another lone mental defective who's ideas originated only within his own knotted brain matter

Sounds like a Savage Weiner wannabe.

[LeftinOH]

9. He thinks the Founding Fathers were a bunch of wig-wearing, shit-stomping commandos;

a lot of the RWers seem to think that.

[xchrom]

12. +1

[disillusioned73]

10. Wow, that was something..

I know there are a lot of nervous baggers today wondering if their messages over the last two years have been saved and it's just a matter of time before the FBI knocks on their doors. Priceless

Oh, and for the "it's not political crowd" - how u like them apples?

[Toucano]

11. He's just an evil, deranged madman. It's not political.

:rofl:

[cherish44]

13. A TRUST FUND?? Would love to know if he lifted a finger to earn that 3 mil

well guess he's gonna be using some of it to pay a lawyer to get his ass out of trouble. Oh well at least it didn't go to some "loser" via taxes...

[pnwmom]

16. Probably not. n/t

[spooky3]

17. yeah, the hypocrisy is amazing...

how people who did nothing to earn their millions can call others "losers" for not earning more is just unbelievable. Narcissistic a$$holes - and this one is dangerously so.

[Gold Metal Flake]

14. Trust-funders are taxed at the lowest percentages.

The only people taxed less are those in poverty, although this trust fund baby does not pay nearly the same percentage of his wealth for daily living as does the very poor.

There are few more privileged in modern USA than the trust-funders. The Founders would have been disgusted with this cretin.

[pnwmom]

15. Look at your federal return. There are no special tax rates for trust funds.

They pay income taxes at rates based on the amount of their total income, including trust funds, salary, and any other income, using the same table that everyone else does.

[spooky3]

18. but capital gains are taxed at a lower level - if the trust distributes taxable gains

he may pay only 20% (formerly 15%) on those. Ordinary income (e.g., on work earnings) rates would be much higher.

[pnwmom]

22. True. But the rate isn't affected by whether it's in a trust or not.

And people without trusts who have capital gains pay also pay lower rates.

Anyone who sells a house, stock, or other appreciated asset can pay the lower capital gains rate -- it has nothing to do with having a trust.

[Hannah Bell]

25. and most people who sell such things for appreciated value have done nothing.

[pnwmom]

26. Not true. They bought a house or stocks and waited for some time

before they sold it.

And most of the people who bought those houses or stocks paid for them out of the money they earned at a job, working.

[Hannah Bell]

27. they did nothing.

[pnwmom]

28. They earned the money they used to buy their houses,

and they put that money into their houses instead of a bank account. And they maintained their houses, putting even more money into them. That's hardly "nothing."

[Hannah Bell]

30. it's nothing that justifies a lower tax rate on the gains. and there is no uniform investment in

maintenance.

and if the property is an income-producing property, maintenance costs can be deducted from taxes. so big whoop, they maintained the property & got a write-off.

and if they lived in the house, big whoop, they maintained it so they could continue living in it or so it was the way they liked it. what's so special about that that it entitles them to a lower tax rate on the gains?

[pnwmom]

31. You're off the point here. This thread was about

"special" rates that went to trusts, and I pointed out that the same rates applied to trusts as income outside of trusts; and, specifically, that the capital gains rates are the same whether property is in or outside of a trust.

[Hannah Bell]

32. i understand the conversation, thanks. they did nothing, & trust fund income is taxed at a lower

rate than regular wage income.

and it's not just the taxation of disbursements as cap gains, it's also in non-taxation of the trust assets and gains.

just because *you* think it's off-point doesn't mean it is.

[pnwmom]

36. No, it isn't. If trust fund monies consist of interest income,

then the trust is taxed at exactly the same rate as wage income. And assets held in a trust are subject to taxation on the same basis that they would be if they weren't in the trust. A gain in the value of a stock, for example, isn't taxed until the stock is sold -- whether or not the stock is held in a trust.

What determines the income tax rates isn't whether the property is held in or out of a trust; it's what type of property it is. Capital gains rates, for example, are lower whether the property is held inside or outside of a trust.

[Hannah Bell]

37. the interest in my savings account is taxed. the gains in a trust fund are not.

[spooky3]

41. actually, they are--and there is some ordinary income in a lot of trust distributions.

But I think we're in agreement on the principles.

[Hannah Bell]

42. no, they're not, until disbursed, & then at less than my savings account.

[spooky3]

44. Actually, not true. I have a number of gains in mutual funds that have never

been distributed to me, but because the manager sold the stocks and bought others, these gains were recognized for the purposes of income taxes, and I had to pay tax on them, as do other people.

More importantly, if this guy (or anyone else) is living off trust funds, some money is going to be distributed to him for him to live on. He's going to have to pay taxes on it, then, if not before (as in the mutual fund example).

As I said in other posts, the bigger point about differential tax rates for work-related (W-2) vs. investment income is good, as is the point that this particular idiot appeared to have done nothing and taken no risks to get his gains, unlike people who might have scrimped and saved and made good investment choices.

If people want to argue about the income tax law, the best thing to do is probably to look up the tax laws. I used to be a tax auditor for the IRS.

[spooky3]

39. If you had a $3 mill. trust and your trustee was so incompetent as to

invest all or most of it in ordinary income investments, rather than those producing capital gains, you would fire that trustee.

[spooky3]

40. but Gold Metal Flake didn't make that claim. His/her point is true--that

people with trust fund income generally pay a lower rate than the very poor (especially when you consider all taxes, not just income taxes).

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. Income from capital gains is taxed about half the rate as wages.

[pnwmom]

23. What does that have to do with trusts?

Trusts can hold almost any type of asset. And capital gains rates apply to capital gains, whether the property is inside or outside of a trust.

[spooky3]

38. You are missing or sidestepping the larger point and focusing on a smaller point.

The larger point is not that it matters whether capital gains are in a trust or not in a trust--and GMF and I didn't claim that, anyway. The larger point is that a substantial amount of trust fund distributions are taxed at lower capital gains rates, whereas NONE of one's W-2 income is. Further, lower income people pay a higher proportion of their income in other types of taxes than do the very wealthy, a point that Warren Buffett has made clear famously.

Another larger point that is getting lost is that the the person who threatened McDermott inherited this money. This is not the same as your examples, in which someone earns and invests his/her own money.

The reactions stem from the comments by the person who threatened McDermott, which included "(McDermott) advocates stealing people’s money to give it to losers." The thrust of his comments is that he is deserving of wealth and others are not deserving of anything. People here are simply pointing out that the government is already giving this guy a break by taxing (probably a substantial chunk of) his unearned income at a lower rate than that of the income of most of the people that he is attacking.

[defendandprotect]

20. And this guy isn't in jail .... ????

[defendandprotect]

21. Just want to comment on the alleged "redistribution" of wealth from the few to the many ... NO ....

the wealth of any nation is based in its natural resources, its nature, its property,

it's ability to tax --

And, I'm sure many have noticed that when our country was formed first on line for

handouts/welfare were the elites! Plenty of the nation's property was doled out to them --

and with it the glorious nature and animal-life that went with it which added to elite riches.

There is no business which operates without in one way or another damaging the environemnt --

we have had great harm done to the environment and the planet by many a business!

From the bleaching of paper to make it suitable to print -- why not hemp? -- to the BP "spill"

which went on 6 months, every business is an attack on nature.

In other words, if bus-i-ness had never been invented we would still have our planet --

fresh air, unpolluted waters, unpolluted skies -- unpolluted soil.

Why bus-i-ness? When elites could no longer survive as Royalty they morphed into bus-i-ness/

corporations. Do they actually want to build cars and furniture? Especially for 10% profit?

No -- and NO again.

What they actually want is total control over our government and its wealth and natural resources.

Total control over its citizens and the government power to tax. Total control over our military.


Capitalism is a suicidal system which exploits nature and natural resources -- and even other

human beings according to various myths of "inferiority."

It is suicidal because in its exploitation of nature, it is also destroying us -- we are part

of nature.

Capitalism is intended to move the wealth and natural resources of a nation from the many to

the few -- and it does that quite successfully.


A nation is a commonwealth -- I've never seen a DEED with any "Creator's" name on it!

[Hannah Bell]

24. lol. chicago trust funder. wonder what he did with his tax breaks -- spent it on long distance ?

[Warren DeMontague]

29. He's gonna need that money

to pay for a really, really good lawyer. Idiot.

[JoePhilly]

33. I hope he enjoys government housing!!!

I'm pretty sure that's where he's heading.

And my tax dollars will be used to pay for his meals and lodging.

[Tsiyu]

34. I will never, ever, ever understand why

someone with that much $$$$ can be so freaking miserable and angry.

[Rex]

35. Obviously he acted on his own without any influence from hate radio/tvee

and must be mentally ill, because words have no impact on others brains according to Repukers. So he should be let go as well...word mean nothing blah blah blah.

HEY ASSHOLE HAVE FUN IN PRISON! :rofl:

[JanMichael]

43. I fucking hate smug-assed filthy trust fund babies.

Flush them all down the toilet that their affluent-non-bootstrap lives belong in.

I've known far too many in my life and the smug self satisfaction of being from the egg or sperm from a rich fuck pisses me off to no end.

The trustafarians are the worst. Faux hippies that dress and act like poor street people or musicians that walk around with $10 lattes and live in apartments or condos paid for by their personal Sweden/Norway social welfare net - IE. Mommy Daddy and or Grammy and Granddaddy.

I know more than you could ever imagine. Total lives of privilege yet act like they actually EARNED the 700k or 7mil. Like they somehow deserve respect for being push out of a golden uterus.

Oh give me a fucking break.