Libya: Jihadists Take Over, As Warned

[marmar]

PARIS, Sep 8, 2011 (IPS) - The official euphoria with which the U.S. and European governments celebrated the fall of the regime of Muammar Gaddafi in Libya has given way to growing concern that many among the new Libyan leadership are radical Muslims with links to al-Qaeda. Revelations are surfacing also of a close collaboration of Western governments with the deposed dictator.

The overwhelming presence of radical Muslims among the rebel Libyan leadership has been known in Paris at least since early March. But the dangers from this are now beginning to be discussed openly in Western capitals.

On Mar. 8, François Gouyette, ambassador to Tripoli until late February, told a select group of deputies at a closed session of the French parliamentary commission of foreign affairs that the rebellion, especially in the east of the country, comprised mostly "radical Muslims".

"In the east of the country, especially in the city of Derna, which was taken very easily by the insurrection, there is without question a high concentration of radical Muslims," Gouyette told the deputies. "Hundreds of Libyan combatants taking part in the international jihad in Afghanistan and in Iraq originate from this region. ...........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=105024

[theoldman]

1. Just what is a radical Muslim?

Is it a Muslim that does not kiss our ass?

[unblock]

34. anyone in the middle east who wants too much of a cut of their own oil.

[tabatha]

2. Oh, please what a load of BS.

Did you listen to Jalil's speech today?

[sudopod]

4. Who voted for Jalil? nt

[DrunkenBoat]

7. LOL. He was Gaddafi's Justice Minister until he was a 'rebel'. New faces, new places.

"In classified US diplomatic cables leaked recently by the website Wikileaks, he is described as open and cooperative."

[joshcryer]

11. Jalil is well respected in Libya and was the face of the new reforms.

It was incredible that he was the first to defect.

[Distant Observer]

47. These were reforms UNDER THE "NOMINALY" GADDAFI REGIME. Now "justice" is covered in blood

[Cerridwen]

9. Who voted against him? Who voted for gaddafi?

Your question makes no sense in the context of what is happening in Libya.

[sudopod]

10. Well, apparently his speech represents the sense of the rebellion across the breadth of Libya.

On what basis can he claim any knowledge of what's on people's minds? Work experience? :3

[joshcryer]

12. We'll see if his ideas are accepted when they have the refrendum.

Until then he represents what he believes is a just Libya, and his support goes way back.

[Cerridwen]

13. That was not what you asked. You asked, "who voted for...".

I responded in kind.

[sudopod]

16. ok? nt

[inna]

32. no tabatha, that's a pure projection on your part

[joshcryer]

3. Libya's new leader calls for civil state

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G9LmGuljAs">Libya's new leader calls for civil state
The chief of Libya's transitional government urged a cheering crowd in Tripoli to strive for a civil, democratic state, while loyalists of fugitive leader Muammar Gaddafi killed at least 15 opposition fighters in an attack on a key oil town in Libya's east.

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra reports.

I find the term "jihadist" highly islamaphobic to the core, particularly as it relates to a moderate Muslim country that is taking pains to resist any islamist element.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

6. That's okay, they knew all along who they were dealing with but

the Western forces who organized this, will make sure they get a compliant government. So long as they are willing to hand over their resources, it won't matter who they are.

We are still, after all, supporting some of the most vicious dictators like Karamov, because he has been smart, smarter than Qadaffi, in not making a fuss over the Military Bases he allowed to be built in his country. In the Wikileaks cables on Uzbekistan, it was clear there was no doubt that they knew how brutal this guy is, 'he's not a nice guy, but he lets us keep our bases there'.

Whichever jihadist ends up running Libya, will simply be rehabilitated. He will be provided with a PR firm to help him create a new image. and before long we will see him wearing western clothes and visiting Downing St. and the State Dept.

He can install a religious government, take away the rights women had under, as has happened in Iraq, and everyone will turn a blind eye. All he has to do is not threaten their profits.

But if he does, then he will meet the same fate all of our other formerly friendly dictators, like Saddam and Qadaffi have met.

I read in the British press that they intend to have a religious government. Fine, it's their country, but for the women there, how sad.

[joshcryer]

14. Unlike Egypt, Libyan women have gained a lot.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/07/30/no-revolution-for-egypt’s-women.html">No revolution for Egypt’s women
CAIRO: Helping drive the January revolution in Egypt were women: young, old, married, single, mothers, daughters and sisters. Their contribution to the cause could not be overstated. They were in Cairo’s Tahrir Square in droves, creating the change that had eluded Egypt for decades. It was not just a man’s world on the streets.

Now, as Egypt looks to a new future, women are again being pushed aside in favor of the “politicians” (read here, men). There are no women on the constitutional committee; there were no women among the ten opposition leaders chosen to “negotiate” with the government during the revolution. It is a sad fact that Egypt must come to terms with in order to promote a new vision, and new society, that can be Egypt.

...

According to the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) nearly 70 per cent of Egyptian women can relate a story of sexual violence. It is the hard truth facing Egypt in this transition period.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/egypts-revolution-is-leaving-women-behind/article1973918/">Egypt’s revolution is leaving women behind
...

Yet, it seems the revolution may be leaving women behind.

During the protests at Tahrir Square, women worked alongside men, organizing, demonstrating, calling for Mr. Mubarak’s ouster. Endemic sexual harassment, like dictatorship, seemed a thing of the past. Many revelled in the new-found societal respect and appreciation of women as partners.

Then came the March 8 rally to commemorate International Women’s Day. About 200 women, along with a smattering of men, gathered in Tahrir Square to urge Egypt to give women a voice in building its future. Many had been alarmed by an ominous turn of political events deemed unfavourable to women: Only one woman had been selected to the interim cabinet; the eight-member committee tasked with formulating constitutional amendments was all male; one of the proposed amendments suggested that future presidents could only be male; and the quota of 64 parliamentary seats for women had been abolished.

The reaction in Tahrir Square that day was swift and brutal, as groups of men accosted the women, hurling insults, and much worse. They were told to go home and wash clothes, that their actions were “un-Islamic.” Some of the women were sexually harassed or groped.

Meanwhile in Libya:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/world/africa/13women.html">Libya’s Battle-Tested Women Hope Gains Last
TRIPOLI, Libya — Aisha Gdour, a school psychologist, smuggled bullets in her brown leather handbag. Fatima Bredan, a hairdresser, tended wounded rebels. Hweida Shibadi, a family lawyer, helped NATO find airstrike targets. And Amal Bashir, an art teacher, used a secret code to collect orders for munitions: Small-caliber rounds were called “pins,” larger rounds were “nails.” A “bottle of milk” meant a Kalashnikov.

In the Libyan rebels’ unlikely victory over Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, women did far more than send sons and husbands to the front. They hid fighters and cooked them meals. They sewed flags, collected money, contacted journalists. They ran guns and, in a few cases, used them. The six-month uprising against Colonel Qaddafi has propelled women in this traditional society into roles they never imagined. And now, though they already face obstacles to preserving their influence, many women never want to go back.

“Maybe I can be the new president or the mayor,” Ms. Gdour, 44, said Monday afternoon as she savored victory with other members of her rebel cell. They are three women who under the old government ran an underground charity that they transformed into a pipeline for rebel arms.

But in the emerging new Libya, women are so far almost invisible in the leadership. Libya’s 45-member Transitional National Council includes just one woman. The council’s headquarters does not have a women’s bathroom.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/12/a-woman-on-libyas-front-lines/">A Woman on Libya’s Front Lines
NEAR BANI WALID, Libya — The rebel fighter, in a billowing white “Free Libya” T-shirt, jeans, scarf and camouflage cap, was leaning against a car, talking in a businesslike manner with other rebels.

It took a few long stares to realize that this fighter was a woman, the only Libyan woman in sight.

...

Her name was Miriam Talyeb. She was 32 years old, a dentist and seven months pregnant with her first child. Her husband was part of the brigade of fighters who carried assault rifles and drove trucks mounted with rocket launchers.

...

Women have played a large part in Libya’s revolution, buying and delivering arms, sheltering fighters, demonstrating, cooking and spying on the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. Since the colonel’s forces fled Tripoli, it has been common to see women posing for pictures with guns in the newly renamed Martyrs’ Square. But in carrying her own weapon into battle, Ms. Talyeb is unusual, as is her husband, for supporting her decision to fight.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-libya-woman-spy-idUSTRE78B3C320110912">Exclusive: Libyan woman guided NATO bombs to Gaddafi targets
The NATO bombing campaign which fatally weakened Muammar Gaddafi's rule had a secret asset: a 24-year-old Libyan woman who spent months spying on military facilities and passing on the details to the alliance.

The woman, operating under the codename Nomidia, used elaborate methods to evade capture -- constantly changing her location, using multiple mobile telephone SIM cards and hiding her activities from all but the closest members of her family.

Her biggest protection against arrest by Gaddafi's security forces though was her gender: as a young woman in Libya's conservative Muslim society, they did not suspect her.

"I was not on the radar," the woman, an engineer, told Reuters in an interview in the lobby of a Tripoli hotel, two weeks on from a rebellion that broke Gaddafi's control over the Libyan capital after 42 years in power.

The women of Libya would appreciate your concern I'm sure, if they were aware of it on an internet forum. But they don't rely on it nor would they consider it necessary.

I hope one day you'll apologize for the dishonest smears against the Libyan people, because nothing you have said will come to fruition. There will be no "jihadist running Libya." There will be no "taking away the rights women had," indeed, the constitution enumerates equal rights for women, a first outside of Turkey.

[Cerridwen]

18. Josh, you know which "side" I'm on...however...

I would not be surprised, in the least, to discover after the fact, that women were shoved back into "their place."

It has happened in the US; see union history, xtian history, civil rights history, as examined from a women's perspective. It ain't so pretty.

I would love to believe the FFs of Libya will -allow- women to participate in what I hope is the coming democracy. I'll believe it when I see it.

That would be one of the biggest issues I have with the upcoming government in Libya.

It would not be the first time in anyone's history that women's labor and contribution has been exploited to help the men while minimizing the role of women.

See for example, Dolores Huerta.

[joshcryer]

19. I honestly would be surprised if it returns to pre-Gaddafi oppression.

Libya has undergone a civil war, a very bloody civil war. In the United States it took us a civil war for women to be granted suffrage. Clara Barton, founder of the Red Cross, started because she was a nurse during the American Civil War. Lucretia Mott pushed suffrage. Harriet Tubman was a spy and was a head of the civil rights movement, etc.

I'm not, mind you, saying that they'll get abortion rights overnight (Latin America still bans abortion, for example) and that they'll be perfect equals, but contrasted with the rest of the Arab world, I believe the Libyan people have made significant, overwhelming gains since the fall of Gaddafi, and I believe they will only continue to do so. Meanwhile the slanders about jihadists and islamists and so on will fall on deaf ears and those people who insist on spreading this dishonest misinformation should be ashamed of themselves.

[Cerridwen]

20. Women in the US had suffrage prior to the Civil War. Did you know that?

Yes. Women, in some parts of the US had the right to vote. It was sketchy and hardly universal, but it was there. That right was universally removed right after the Civil War.

I'm not talking about abortion rights; that is hardly the be all and end all of women's rights. I'm talking about the role women will play in an Islamic government.

I hope you are right; I am less comfortable with thinking that may be the case.

Western culture has a long history of exploiting women's labor for the benefit of "men" and then discarding the women. I've not yet seen anything to disabuse me of that concern with regards to the Arab Spring.

But I'll keep on hoping.

[joshcryer]

22. Fair enough and I can respect that.

I'm as cynical as the rest but as I've observed the Libyan revolution it is difficult for me to pin a super negative outcome on the events.

[sabrina 1]

24. We saw lots of reports like that in the middle of the Egyptian

rebellion. I posted them myself actually. And don't worry, the women of Egypt are going to make sure they have equality.

Iraq was supposed to leave the rights of women alone also, they also had a Constitution. But with the rise of the fundamentalists there, women's rights have been taken back to the dark ages in many parts of the country. I am aware of the Constitution. I am also aware of what you did not post, maybe are not aware of, but there will be a battle between the fundamentalists for a religious government, and they have said already, they want to bring Sharia law to Libya.

The raping of the sub-Saharan women by rebels, doesn't give me much hope for the future of women there. They are afraid to go out and this has been going on for months. Unless of course you think so many women could be lying.

One of the reasons I could no longer support this travesty.

[joshcryer]

25. I still support the Egyptian Revolution despite reports of 70% sexual violence there.

That is, 70% of all Egyptian women have been sexually attacked. Or 28 million women. Or 4 times the entire population of Libya. Meanwhile you give away your bias, with the invocation of "Sharia law," which I have been over before. The draft constitution grants women equality, something no other Arab state except the US backed military junta of Turkey created, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives.

Between you and me I'm glad the US has not installed a junta in Libya because the free Libyan people won't allow it.

[xchrom]

8. Recommend

[Bozita]

15. Just wonderin' if "Jihadist" is Arabic for "anti-corporatist"

Seriously!

[amborin]

17. K&R

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

23. Libya is going to leap ahead of Turkey (Turkey, which had a bloody US backed military junta).

And it will be a beacon of light in the Arab world, I truly believe that.

And just so you know, the people bashing the Libyan Revolution have been repeatedly proven wrong time and time again, it doesn't appear to bother them, being wrong, they just keep going. I personally would be mortified and ashamed if predictions or claims that I made didn't come true (which is why I didn't make very many predictions about Libya, and have admitted when I've been wrong).

[Distant Observer]

49. Libya was ahead of Turkey. Check out the World Bank stats and HRW reports for past 20 years

[EFerrari]

26. LMAO. What a slender thread to hang an attack on the left.

Embarrassing, really. If you can't do better than that, you should go post in the lounge. They need a few more cat threads over there.

[Whats_Happening]

28. Here's an attempt -

[EFerrari]

27. I remember an indy journalist ticking off 20 factions in Iraq

when Uncle Don thought there were only three.

Libya has many more and the money changers haven't seen anything yet, imo.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

29. Libya's transitional leader pledges no extremism

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/africa/news/article_1662595.php/Libya-s-transitional-leader-pledges-no-extremism">Libya's transitional leader pledges no extremism
Cairo - The leader of Libya's Transitional National Council said in Tripoli that it will rule without 'extremist ideology,' reports said Tuesday.

'We are Muslim people calling for a moderate Islam, and will stay on this road,' Mustapha Abdul Jalil told thousands of cheering supporters late Monday, according to Dubai-based Al Arabiya television.

'We are Muslim people of forgiveness,' he said, urging Libyans not to seek revenge against former officials of fugitive leader Moamer Gaddafi.

The families of former government figures 'are not responsible for crimes' of their relatives, he said.

[joshcryer]

31. Libya rebel leader calls for democratic state

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/12/MN5E1L3ISH.DTL">Libya rebel leader calls for democratic state
The chief of Libya's revolutionary movement told thousands of cheering Libyans in Tripoli on Monday to strive for a civil, democratic state, while loyalists of the hunted dictator Moammar Khadafy killed at least 15 opposition fighters in an attack on a key oil town in Libya's east.

From hiding, Khadafy urged his remaining followers to keep up the fight, a sign that Libya's six-month civil is not over even though revolutionary forces now control most of the country and have begun setting up a new government in the capital.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil addressed a rowdy crowd of thousands in Martyrs' Square in central Tripoli, a site that until recently was famous for pro-Khadafy rallies. Flanked by a few dozen revolutionary leaders in their largest public gathering since rebel forces stormed into the capital on Aug. 21, he called on Libyans to build a state based on the rule of law.

"No retribution, no taking matters into your own hands and no oppression. I hope that the revolution will not stumble because of any of these things," he said.

[inna]

33. wow, i missed all the 'excitement', as usual. i wonder what the deleted subthreads

were all about.

[pampango]

35. We need a dictator to protect us from the bad guys?

Propping up dictators in order to crack down on terrorists is not a strategy that we should be supporting. Even if (and that is a big IF) it were successful in "keeping America safe", it sacrifices the rights of millions of Egyptians, Tunisians, Libyans, et al for the good of the US. Repubs may accept that trade-off, but we should not.

[Romulox]

41. So who's next? Plenty of iron bombs, plenty of "human rights abuses"

What is the mathematical formula whereby we decide just whom to bomb next. Because I KNOW you aren't arguing Ghadaffi was the worst human rights abuser in the world. :hi:

[blindpig]

36. But, but, 'freedom fighters', humanitarian mission, evil Ghadiffi....

All hogwash.

Imperialism, and as usual allied(sic) with the most reactionary elements of local society.

k&r

[blindpig]

37. What happened in Tripoli?

Here's a clue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpM_kSfT1w&feature=player_embedded

'Freedom fighters', hah, more like 'freedom' scavengers.

[Skidmore]

38. So the people of a nation rise up against a well entrenched dictator and

we're supposed to be outraged by the choice they make to replace him?

[Romulox]

39. You forgot the part about NATO. nt

[blindpig]

43. A nation? hardly....

rather a gang of disgruntled exiles, out of favor tribal leaders and islamic extremists. Nato did most of the (winning) fighting for them, they are little more than a fig leaf for imperialism.

[Skidmore]

44. We got it.

Qaddafi is pure as the driven snow. A veritable Abraham Lincoln clone.

[blindpig]

45. Sez who?

The Colonel is hardly a boy scout, however he has preserved Libyan sovereignty, brought many material benefits to the Libyan people, improved the status of women(not perfect but beyond the regional norm) and led the fight against neo-colonialism on the African continent. For these things he should be commended. Yes, he has been hard on his opponents, but so are our so-called friends(suckfish) in the region, it seems the opprobrium is quite selective.

[Romulox]

40. "Regime change" is only dangerous (not to say morally repugnant) if done in Iraq!

:shrug:

[Starry Messenger]

42. recommend.

[Distant Observer]

46. Even Amnesty Int. has noted TORTURE AND MURDER as modus operandi of new "leaders"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j9KdNc0fsv6tQ1pul0fJPH1YUl_g?docId=7d70ac1c022d41f89681aff2cd2b96d9

[blindpig]

48. Ah, but they have already peddled Libya's ass to the imperialists.

So we can overlook these 'indescretions...

[Distant Observer]

50. Now we can finally do a POLL to show how everyone supports the new regime

Of course any opposition would be been killed or silenced -- or will be soon.

Long live FREEDOM AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!

[blindpig]

51. When it comes to koolaid flavor does matter...

gotta be selective or you'll have a bad case of cognitive dissidence.

[Bucky]

52. If not for "moderates" like Qaddafi doing the torturing for the CIA, there'd be fewer jihadists.

I wouldn't be surprised if extremists eventually prevail in Libya. If a nutjob so wacked out he makes Michelle Bachmann look like a Phil Donohue groupie took over my country for 40 years, I might become an extremist too. But so far the news seems to indicate the new regime is pro-tolerance.

[SoCalDem]

53. "Westerners" do not "own" the world. . We don't get to tell others how to run their countries

Not every country WANTS to be like us, and we should just leave them the hell alone.. Extend a hand of friendship if they ever WANT our input, offer to trade with them, but let them determine how they will govern themselves.,

[EFerrari]

54. I have a thousand military bases that disgree with that.

:)

You'd think by now, we'd have figured out that we suck at manipulating other countries. It's like watching a bad cook plan a holiday mean.