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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 11:56 AM
Original message
Arizona Ranked 2nd In Per Capita Gun Deaths
http://www.alternet.org/news/149502/arizona_has_turned_into_a_gun_lover%27s_paradise_--_and_that%27s_why_it_ranks_2nd_in_per_capita_gun_deaths/

AlterNet / By Joshua Holland 65 COMMENTS
Arizona Has Turned into a Gun Lover's Paradise -- and That's Why It Ranks 2nd in Per Capita Gun Deaths
Arizona is a mecca for gun-lovers, but having lots of heavily armed citizens running around has made it a more dangerous place to live.
January 12, 2011 |

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik calls Arizona “an ultra-right, ultra-conservative state” that has been “victimized by the gun lobby.” He said legislators in Phoenix “don’t seem capable of doing anything reasonable when it comes to weapons in this state,” and that the political climate in the Grand Canyon state is pushing the law in the direction of “letting everybody in this state carry weapons under any circumstances that they want.” As a result, Arizona provides ample evidence that the presence of a large number of untrained but heavily armed citizens running around doesn't make anyone safer. The state ranks dead last in gun controls, according to the Legal Community Against Violence (LCAV), a group that advocates for tighter gun laws. Arizona doesn't require background checks for private gun sales; it doesn't prohibit assault weapons, 50 caliber rifles, high capacity magazines; it doesn't impose a waiting period or limit the number of guns that can be acquired in a single purchase, and it doesn't regulate “junk guns” – cheap and often unsafe “Saturday Night Specials.” Last year, the state passed a law allowing individuals to carry concealed firearms in public without a license or permit.

Has this made the citizens of Arizona, a gun-lover's paradise, safe? Well, the state ranked second in the country in per capita gun deaths, according to statistics compiled by The Daily Beast, and eighth in terms of the overall rate of violent crime, according to Census data. And its lax gun laws spill over its borders; according to LCAV, “Arizona ranked 11th among the states in terms of number of crime guns supplied to other states per capita. Perhaps more shockingly, in 2009, Arizona provided more crime guns per capita to Mexico than any other state.”

But the narrative that an armed citizenry makes for a safe community persists. Since the shootings, gun enthusiasts have touted the “courage” of one supposedly heroic figure in that Tucson parking lot, a young man named Joseph Zamudio. As the Wall Street Journal put it, his experience “speaks to why many gun-rights supporters think carrying a legal weapon can save lives.”
When he realized there was an incident occurring at the Tucson Safeway supermarket Saturday where Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was holding a constituent event, Mr. Zamudio thought he could help, since he was legally carrying a 9mm semiautomatic.

"If I'd gone down there sooner, maybe I could have shot him myself," Zamudio told reporters. But Slate's William Saletan offered the “rest of the story.” When Zamudio rounded the corner, with his finger on the trigger of the gun in his pocket and the safety off, he saw a man holding a gun and was prepared to shoot him. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!'" he recalled. Only it turned out that the man was not the shooter, later identified as Jared Lee Loughner, but a bystander who had wrested the gun away from Loughner. Zamudio, who has no formal weapons training, conceded that he was “really lucky” to have made the right call. “I made a lot of really big decisions really fast,” he said.
One of the reasons he hesitated was he feared that if he drew his weapon police would believe he had been the perpetrator of the deadly shooting spree...
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. recommend
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Are you sure? /nt
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. B, b, but... it's brown drug smugglers, not nice, middle class White people
who kill each other with guns here, so MYOB!

Y'all don't understand our culture here, we're different!

:sarcasm:

Fear rules the day here--outsiders just cannot get it. I hate it so I stay and try to make it better.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. The state is completely run by Hate Radio and Fox News
It is totally bankrupt, but makes legislators take "no tax increase" pledges. The real estate market is in the toilet. The health services are a disgrace. The hate radio mindset won't let the elected officials address these problems. In order to distract the voters from malfeasance like that, they make a big show of passing "Professors can pack weapons in class" laws.

Look carefully folks. They may be leading the pack now, but pretty soon the whole country will be like that.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. I saw an interview with that gun nut Zamudio and he nearly
killed an innocent man.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. What's the point of this?
Stricter gun control is a non starter. President Obama and most Democrats realize it's a losing issue. The American public has this to say:

And there is little sense that stricter gun control laws in Arizona might have averted the tragedy. Only one in five say they would have prevented the shooting; 72% say tighter controls wouldn't have prevented it.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-01-12-poll-ariz-shooting_N.htm
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. i thought it's because you don't like gun control
no?
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. You're very perceptive..
Of course, I oppose any and all efforts to further restrict my right to keep and bear arms. However, there's nothing wrong with a little evidence to show the majority of the American people stand with me...
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. delete
Edited on Thu Jan-13-11 12:25 PM by Upton
..
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. In 2009, Arizonas laws were not significantly different than about 28 other states.
Edited on Thu Jan-13-11 12:51 PM by OneTenthofOnePercent
In 2009, Arizona's laws were not significantly different than about 28 states... with 28 states receiving "zero out of 4 stars" awarded by the republican-led Brady Campaign. In fact, using the Brady Scorecard (which ranks states by strengh of gun laws) Arizona was tied or stricter than 6 other states when it comes to the strength of gun laws. I'm looking at 2009 because that the year which the article is using for gun-crime statistics.

The only real law change for Arizona since 2009 was the adoption of being allowed to carry a concealed handgun without a permit - making Arizona the 3rd state in America (along with Vermont and Alaska) to adopt such a policy.

So pointing to lax gun laws and commenting "Arizona Has Turned into a Gun Lover's Paradise -- and That's Why It Ranks 2nd in Per Capita Gun Deaths" doesn't quite make total sense because most other states share VERY similar laws with some states being even less restrictive. In fact, when you consider that the nuber #1 state scored 5X higher than AZ on the Brady Scorecard, the statement is simply intellectual dishonesty.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/bcam/stategunlaws/scorecard/StateRatings.pdf
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. you can link to republican websites...
you just shouldn't believe them
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Lurks Often Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. So why are you supporting their viewpoint?
If the Brady Campaign is a Republican website and should not be believed, then why are you supporting their position on further restrictions (and their ultimate goal of a complete firearms ban) on firearms?
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. actually it's non-partisan
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Lurks Often Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. You stated in your post #12 that it is a Republican website and
not to be trusted. So is it a Republican web site or a bipartisan website?

In other words, which post are you wrong in?
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. i was answering post # 6...
he apologized to linking to a repug web-site and I made a joke about it

now, it seems he has scrubbed the link from his post
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reformist2 Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think more people should watch Zamudio's interviews
Edited on Thu Jan-13-11 12:21 PM by reformist2
I suspect he is fairly representative of the kind of citizen who carries a concealed weapon, for better or worse.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. And, my state is ranked first.
Oh, joy. But, I am not surprised. They are as nutty here in SC as in AZ.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Those stats don't line up..
Edited on Thu Jan-13-11 01:01 PM by X_Digger
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_20.html

Those are the homicides in the various states


Oh wait, I see..

The staff at the Beast weighted their ranking 75% on number of gun deaths per 1000 people, and 25% on a comprehensive ranking of gun safety laws put together by the "Legal Community Against Violence," a watchdog group.


So a state with a lower rate, but permissive laws is weighted higher than a state with a state with a rate higher, but strict gun control laws.

Here are the actual homicide rates from the above table from the FBI, not weighted..


District of Columbia...24.01
Louisiana..............10.82
Maryland................7.68
Tennessee...............7.32
New Mexico..............7.17
Alabama.................6.75
Missouri................6.36
South Carolina..........6.27
Michigan................6.27
Oklahoma................6.10


And here are the murder by guns rate, top ten

District of Columbia...18.84
Louisiana...............8.95
Maryland................5.35
Alabama.................4.86
Tennessee...............4.69
Missouri................4.61
Michigan................4.38
South Carolina..........4.32
New Mexico..............3.88
Georgia.................3.85


eta: formatting

eta2: They used 2007 CDC data, which includes suicide.. which still doesn't line up..

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
Select 'all intents', 'firearm', group by 'state'

District of Columbia....24.56
Louisiana...............19.86
Mississippi.............18.31
Alaska..................17.59
Alabama.................17.51
Nevada..................16.12
Arkansas................14.99
New Mexico..............14.98
Tennessee...............14.97
Arizona.................14.95

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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. >-- #10 IS THE MUST SEE POST IN THIS THREAD.
I find it bothersome that now that Repubs have the House, we'd want to make filibusters harder, for ourselves.

Now that the media seems taken by the right wing, we now want to take guns from the people.

These stories seem manufactured.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Their murder rate dropped 23 percent in 2009
from 7 per thousand to 5.4 per thousand. Looks like they are on the right track.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_04.html
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. unrec for mendacious stats -- see post 10. n/t
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Unrec for dishonest propaganda. The "statistics" are contrived, meaningless bullshit.
:nuke:
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
21. K and R for the unreccers
Truth hurts.
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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. "truth hurts"?
did you even see post 10?

The "stats" themselves in the OP are weighted based on political agenda. See that AZ's gun laws are typically inline with other states and the OP's premise as AZ being a "gun-utopia" due to it's especially lax laws falls apart. Convenient FACTS to ignore, eh?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Read reply #10 if you want to see the real truth in this story
:hi:
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-11 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. I wouldn't visit that state or live there if you paid me.
It's Backwardistan, part of the ignorant section of this country.
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