Bob Turner: Another glorious victory of "Who the &@#$ else ya gonna vote for, chumps?!" politics

[MannyGoldstein]

I know I'm the turd in the punch bowl, but it has to be said: nobody should be surprised that a Republican took Weiner's seat. It was absolutely inevitable, as predictable as the sun coming up in the morning.

After Clinton became president in 1993, the Third-Way crowd took over our Party and instituted their "We can go hard right because who the fuck else ya gonna vote for, chumps?! We suck a little less than the Republicans, so you have no choice but to vote for us." brand of politics. In the very next election, 1994, Democrats lost both houses of Congress. The Third-Way crowd ran the next four election cycles as well, and the Republicans maintained control of both houses of Congress every single time. The third way strategy couldn't win shit, but it did force the Republicans further to the right in order to differentiate themselves from the "Democrats".

Dr. Dean wrested control of our Party from the feckless Third-Wayers in 2005, and Democrats took control of both houses of Congress in the very next election. In 2008, with the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party still in control, Democrats held both houses of Congress and won the Presidency. But when Candidate Obama shed his skin to become Third-Way President Obama, Dean was kicked to the curb and the Third Way was back in charge.

"Who the fuck else ya gonna vote for, chumps?!" was once again the battle cry of the Democrats. And, once again, the American people showed who the fuck else they'd vote for: Republicans. First Scott Brown won. Then the Republicans slaughtered us in the 2010 elections. And now New York City has a new Republican Representative.

History is crystal clear: until we rid ourselves of the Third Way, we will lose elections. Democrats need to be Democrats, not Republicans. End of story.

[mitchtv]

1. K&R

that about says it

[piratefish08]

2. why do you LOVE President Perry??!

what do I get for saying it first?

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Well, you brightened my night.

I think that counts for something.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

5. Emphatic K&R. This probably violates some arcane DU rule, but

in 2012 all real Dems should be voting Democratic Socialist. I will be.

[TheKentuckian]

6. Fuckin A!

[Jack Rabbit]

7. K/R

Firebaggers unite!

[BzaDem]

8. You might be correct that people might vote against the Democrat if they don't experience the

consequences of that action. It's easy to make a protest vote when nothing's on the line. But when people do see the consequences of their actions (see Nader's share of the vote in 2004 vs. 2000), they generally wake up. In an election like this, it's easier to succumb to confused and muddled thinking (when the result of one seat isn't going to change much). It's just a shame that the wake-up moment doesn't occur before the damage is done, when there is time to see things clearly and self-correct.

Unfortunately, the damage might already be done. If PA/MI/OH switch their electoral vote allocation (given their sweep in 2010 into state government), that might stop any progressive from winning the Presidency regardless of who wins the popular vote. Furthermore, if the Republicans win in 2012, the justices they appoint could very well overrule most future progressive legislation (even if progressives ever do get a solid majority).

The people who decided not to vote for who they perceive to be the lesser of two evils will be regretting their actions every single day for the rest of their lives. But it won't matter, since regret won't bring them back in time to make a different choice. The damage will have been done to policy and people in this country for a generation.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. This would all be easy if Obama just fought for working Americans

Alas, no dice.

[BzaDem]

11. Most members of the Democratic party believe that he is. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

12. It's certainly true that most working Americans do not nt

[BzaDem]

13. If you include in the tally working Americans that are Republicans, of course that is true.

But I don't see how that is surprising. Members of the Republican party will always tend to say that a Democratic President is not fighting for them. The same is true of conservatives (regardless of party). Including them in the tally doesn't necessarily give an accurate picture.

That's why it is misleading to just ask about working Americans in general. To do that is to ignore the lurking variables of party identification and ideology. Liberals and Democrats (and particularly liberal Democrats) support Obama at a higher rate than any President in decades. It is impossible to please everyone of any subgroup, but Obama is certainly doing better among the left than any President in recent memory.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. But isn't it the *entire* electorate that counts?

The electorate voted for Obama - obviously, they don't believe that he's delivered the Change he promised. His Third-Way agenda of co-opting the middle by going hard right is not working, and that strategy has never worked.

We need true Democratic values and action - that's the Change we all voted for.

[Brickbat]

9. K&R

[abelenkpe]

14. K&R

Need Dean fer sure

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. No, not really

this has nothing at all to do with Third Way neoliberalism, nor has it anything to do with health care, or the economy, or any of the other things people like to point at. The reason Turner beat Weprin? Very simple. The district has a very large number of Hasidic and Orthodox Jewish voters for whom foreign-policy concerns vis-à-vis Israel trump any domestic political concerns; these voters are by and large on the extreme right of the issue, and reject a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine question, reject any compromise or negotiation, support the construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and believe in "Greater Israel" stretching from the Mediterranean to the River Jordan. Obama's stated position of support for a two-state solution using 1967 borders with land swaps as a starting point for negotiations alienated a good many of these voters from voting for any Democrat (despite the fact that the Democratic candidate was an Orthodox Jew with an extremist position on Israel). The election was a referendum in this one district on the administration's Israel policy, and has no real wider implications.

[BzaDem]

16. Your post brings up the main problem with these posts: they diagnose the problem exactly wrong.

If you were to read this OP and you had no more information, you would think that the reason we lost 2010, and the reason we lost Scott Brown's seat, and the reason we lost this seat, was that voters voted against Democrats from the left.

But that is nonsensical. The data bears out the exact opposite. The vast majority of those that voted for the Republican want a smaller government with fewer services, less spending, and fewer programs. Poll after poll shows this.

This doesn't mean that they are correct, or that the Democratic party should respond by changing their policy in the direction of those views. The answer is an emphatic "NO" to each. But that doesn't mean we can just pretend our election losses are occurring for the exact opposite reason than they are in reality.,

[Vincardog]

26. BzaDem has it exactly correct. We need to go LEFT act like real Democrats and the elections are ours

fuck the new/blue/conserva/dems

[Major Hogwash]

20. Weiner didn't support all of that though, did he?

I thought that Weiner believed in the two-state solution.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Weiner supported all of that.

On the issue of Israel he was and is a hawkish right-wing extremist.

[garybeck]

18. Link?

is this a DU post or an article from somewhere else?

[MannyGoldstein]

24. For better or worse, it's my original work. nt

[Major Hogwash]

19. Ed Koch was making robocalls for Turner.

So figure it out New York, Koch is not a freaking Democrat!!

He endorsed Bush over Kerry in 2004!!

[sabrina 1]

22. So, where are you going to go?

:rofl:

Seriously, I think that game is over. It's not working anymore. But then my question regarding the Third Way is, do they really care if Republicans win? They are far closer to Republicans regarding policies than they are to Progressive Democrats.

The only way to stop them from losing more elections and/or dragging the party further to the right, is to ignore them, not to donate to any of their pacs but directly to progressive candidates, and we definitely need some new leadership. But who?

[scheming daemons]

23. Howard Dean disagrees with you about Obama. Nfm.

[Pooka Fey]

25. K&R

[truebrit71]

27. Absolutely one hundred-fucking-percent spot on...

Instead of Dr. Dean we got Tim Kaine...that worked out well, so he left and we got Debbie Wasserman-Shulz who does a very good impression of a hippie-puncher with her DLC-loving ways...

History is 100% crystal clear, the only way we get to win is if our candidates ACT and BEHAVE like goddamned DEMOCRATS!!! If they go rep-lite (or blue-dog...a phrase that makes me want to :puke:) they will vote for the REAL republican everytime...

Better to lose standing and fighting for what you believe in, than compromise away your values and beliefs and get kicked in the nuts anyway...

[Ignis]

30. ^^^ This.

:thumbsup:

[Laelth]

28. k&r for the truth. Well said. n/t

-Laelth

[Mimosa]

29. Excellent Commentary, Manny

When I see a Manny Golstein authored OP I know clicking on it will be worthwhile. :D

[merkins]

31. Democratic party politicians prefer to lose

I missed this comment on another thread but Corrente picked up on it for the quote of the day. Thank you to DU's Claudia Jones for a summation I have been feeling in my heart these last few years:

Democratic party politicians are in an unenviable position. They must convince people that they are fighting for the everyday working class people while they are actually working for the wealthy few. This is a delicate balancing act. When they gain power, as in 2006 and 2008, they have an enormous problem because people have an expectation that they will actually do something to benefit the working class people. Convoluted and improbable excuses and rationales must be concocted lest people see through the ruse. Of course, part of the game is denying that any of this is going on. It was remarkable to see the relief - almost glee - among party politicians, flacks and liberal pundits after the 2010 drubbing. They paid lip service to being unhappy over the results, yes. But they were very happy to be back in their comfort zone and go back to pointing the finger at the Republicans and claiming impotence and to blaming the general public for the state of the country.

[mike_c]

32. rec'd!

and agreed!