Can someone please tell me what Obama's values are?

[eridani]

And I said VALUES, not laundry lists.

[Zynx]

1. I don't rightly give a shit at this point. We should turn most of our attention to the Republicans.

[eridani]

3. And those Republicans clearly state their values

What VALUES do we have to counter their values message?

[HappyMe]

4. I wasn't aware that republiCONS had values. nt

[eridani]

7. They've controlled the airwaves shouting about them for the last 40 years

Taxes are bad, there should be lees regulation, less government. Government is illegitimate and bad unless it is killing or imprisoning people. Freedom! Freedom! Freedom to shit in the reservoir is of course what they mean.

What values do you suggest to counter those?

[LWolf]

60. You aren't going to elect Obama if you don't give a shit what he stands for.

That's a Republican win.

Of course, the '08 election of Obama was a Republican win. With Obama, they win either way.

[Pigheaded]

72. Huh??

[LWolf]

73. What is hard to comprehend? It seems simply obvious to me. nt

[HappyMe]

2. ...

:eyes:

[Owlet]

5. Interesting question

Not being snarky, but I'd be curious to see YOUR values (or anyone else's, for that matter) reduced to something that doesn't look remarkably like a laundry list. But, I'll take a stab at it. I sort of think Hippocrates says it for me: "First, do no harm." And, no, I'm not a physician. Just a garden-variety progressive. :)

[eridani]

9. Very briefly, public goods are GOOD

This very simple phrase covers environmental and consumer protection, education, investment in infrastructure, health care, public safety, retirement security and a really big laundry list of lots of other things.. Thom Hartman says "the commons." Michael Moore says "the we society."

Taxes are good when they are used for public goods and fairly assessed.

[Fumesucker]

16. Do you consider the drug war to be a "public good"? n/t

[eridani]

20. Nope. That's why I defend PUBLIC GOODS, and not government per se

If the government is not serving the public good in a particular area, that needs to be changed by active citizenship.

[alc]

6. reelection

[Selatius]

8. With enough money, you can make his values whatever you want it to be. nt

[A wise Man]

10. From 2000 to the present...

"LIKE IT OR NOT ANYTHING BETTER THAN BUSH OR ANY REPUBLICAN. I guess toooo many of you have short memories OF 2000 to 2008. If you let republicans back in you might as well SHOOT...POISON...JUMP FROM A HIGH WINDOW....OR HANG ALL YOURSELVES FOR DELIVERING YOURSELVE TO EVIL. WTFU and stop asking stupid ass questions!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chan790]

13. This attitude is rather quite the problem.

Oh noes...if we don't utterly capitulate on progressive values or stand up to oppose when Democrats act like Republicans...we might end up with Republicans in office instead of Democrats who are really Republicans and that would be like electing the wrong laundry.

If it walks, talks and shits like a Republican Duck...it's a Republican Duck. What has Barack Obama quacked about today?

[Erose999]

15. These times are worse than Bush's presidency, are they not?

Pretty much all the bad policies from that era have been doubled down on.

[dionysus]

33. LOL, uh yeah...

:rofl:

[eridani]

22. Sorry, but "we suck less" is not a value n/t

[MisterP]

40. maybe NEXT time you should probably break

THE Prozacs IN HALF

[Lasher]

11. Anthony Weiner said he's not a values kind of guy.

He had a point.

[Exilednight]

49. It's also probably why he's not in office anymore. n/t

[Mugweed]

12. Machine wash, warm water

Do not use bleach
Tumble dry, medium heat

He's a politician.

[ananda]

14. Pleasing rich, corporate, and GOP assholes.

nt

[Bragi]

17. He values consensus and compromise

In another time and place, that could be seen as an admirable and useful set of values.

In the toxic polarized winner-take-all U.S political culture, it is seen as being unprincipled, and can be a weakness.

[eridani]

23. Excellent. The first really appropriate answer

And I agree--those values have to be secondary in this toxic environment.

[Mr Deltoid]

26. Right, the process is more important than the end result

Sad thing is, nobody remembers the process, only the end result.

[Little Star]

38. Consensus and compromise require more than just him...

He can't have either the way our political system works. Our system functions like yin and yang and I think it was developed that way for a reason.

He's in the wrong profession if he values consensus and compromise.

[Pholus]

18. Above all else, at the end of the day he needs to appear as "the only adult in the room."

I find that phrase arrogant, egotistical, wrongheaded, and pretty much the source of all the friction with the "hippies" on the "professional left" who keep getting punched by the WH to please the bullies. How can you be the "only adult in the room" and an actual real and functioning member of the Democratic Party at the same time? Every time we had "closed door negotiations" with the Tea-ror-rists where our own leadership had been shut out, I kept hearing that phrase in my head.

The hardest thing about being a bit unhappy is that, left alone, I'd probably get over it. Overall the President did okay, much better than he could have, but still not as good as the campaign hype. But then you get the Blue Link Brigade out there. They still won't accept that the guy is actually human. Every act has to be interpreted as a "MAJOR VICTORY!!!!!," every failure has to be reinterpreted through a funhouse mirror so it becomes some "GRAND STRATEGIC MOVE!!!!" whose consequences are merely obscured because we aren't enlightened enough to understand the masterful depths of the maneuver.
There was a greatest post yesterday called "2.8 years of pictures" or something like that. I scanned through the pictures and there are some real wins in there, but I also am aware of the fine print in there as well, the little qualifiers that make the victories a little less sweeping than the one sentence capsules which proclaimed "WINNING" kind of like Charlie Sheen. It makes the "signature photo" on each category something that grates on you like a little blackboard scratch each time.

Sorry guys, I get it all right. I saw parts of our social safety net placed on the block as a desperate incentive to get some kind of "deal" moving during the debt battle. The *first* time I saw the President call out the Republicans with any real anger at all, it was because they HADN'T taken his deal, not because they have this destructive vision of where America should be going. That deal was not a benefit for me and mine and I'm glad it failed. Now I was told on DU that the offer was part of some great strategy because the President KNEW the deal would not be made. Great, BUT WHAT IF THEY HAD AGREED? Would we have seen that football taken away from them in that case? Don't make me laugh. In contrast, his anger with his own party has a longer history, as the phrase "professional left" shows.

Anyway, I find that the Blue Link propoganda continually hardens my unhappiness with the President and it isn't actually his fault -- after all I identify with the Democrats because we're realistic and clear headed and *not* prone to hero-worship -- and it has been consistently getting harder to separate my opinion of him from my opinion of them.

So, I think I'm taking a break from DU for a while, probably until next year. The less I have the Blue Linkers trying to convince me that those occasional yellow sprays running down my leg are rain, the more enthusiasm I might have in 2012. I am actually VERY enthused about the local level, but in my case the President is riding on the Democratic downstream coattails this time instead of the other way around.

Until next year, take care guys. I hope we win in 2012, I hope the President wins in 2012, but I've had enough of the apologists for a few months.

[eridani]

27. "They have this destructive vision of where America should be going."

Yep. And we need the president to assert positive values against this. Compromise and consensus aren't working.

The Blue Link threads don't bother me, and I try not to piss all over them. But I am raising this values question so that even if the president won't articulate strong values, we will have thought it over enough to do it ourselves.

[SwampG8r]

53. bravo!! you have also spoken my own heart on this

i can live with the constant disappointments better if i dont have to be told how foolish i am to expect a politician to do as he said he would.

[blindpig]

19. irrelevant.

Don't matter what's going on in his head, what matters is what he does, and particular things he does not do.

That is the only thing that matters and the record speaks for itself, a raft of insult for working class and planet.

[eridani]

28. Policy wise, yes. Communicating to the public? Unfortunately we need clear

--expositions of values counter to Repuke ones.

[blindpig]

37. As both parties are capitalist...

the differences are those of degree, not of kind.

We need the latter.

[hifiguy]

39. +1

Agreed 1000%, pig.

[eridani]

42. Let me know when you find an anti-capitalist party with a voter contact list n/t

[blindpig]

48. Organization first.

Serious attention to the ballot can only be considered after a working class party is established and has the strength to be credible. Much work to do.

[eridani]

66. You learn to do elections by doing elections

A party by definition has to have a plan for winning elections as well as an agenda on what they want to do after winning. No party can ever be strong unless it successfully contests elections. Do or do not do. There is no "try."

[Upton]

21. Drones and Drug Wars..

[eridani]

31. Those aren't values. They are policies n/t

[Exilednight]

50. You develop your policies based on your values. Well, at least I do. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. Same as they were in '08. Getting elected.

“Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)”

Bob Dylan

[JoePhilly]

25. He clearly hates us.

That's what Rush tells us.

[eridani]

29. Could you try to answer the question? n/t

[JNinWB]

34. Why? I'm not a mind-reader.

I would have a hard time describing my very own values....

[eridani]

36. I don't, and neither do most people. With politicians, you shouldn't have to read their minds n/t

[JoePhilly]

55. I did ... clearly he hates America.

Because its the one thing the right and the left seem to agree on.

[Major Hogwash]

30. This thread is a waste of time.

And another nail in the coffin of DU.

[eridani]

32. Silly me. Of course we don't need a strong values message to counter

--the nasty vision that conservatives have been promulgating for 40 years. Let's just keep playing on the field that they have defined for us.

[SwampG8r]

54. yes

who would ever want to discuss anything on a discussion board?

[bluestate10]

61. I agree. The MODs should immediately delete bullshit OPs like this one.

But they don't and that is a problem.

[Claudia Jones]

35. politics is not driven by "values"

"Values" is Republican framing of the political battle.

The battle is between the haves and the have nots. The Republicans fight relentlessly for the haves. This administration does not fight for the have nots. The people controlling the Democratic party fear (and profit from) the haves more than they do the have nots.

If we try to fight the right wing in the "values" arena, they will always win.

[Cosmocat]

41. THANK YOU ...

Cause, you know, there are people on Free Republic starting threads, "SOMEONE TELL ME HOW PERRY IS GOING TO WORK TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT!"

I swear, people at Democratic Underground using fricken Republican frames to tear down the democratic president ...

WHISKY
TANGO
FOXTROT

[eridani]

43. You mean that fighting for the have nots isn't a value?

I always thought it was. All we need to do here is stop mentally appending the word "traditional" to "values". Public goods = GOOD is a value too.

[Claudia Jones]

56. I see what you are saying

Certainly the fight has value. The value doesn't have much fight in it, though. It is passive - something people claim to have as an invisible interior state of mind. Many politicians say "I share your values" even when they act in ways that contradict those values. "Don't get me wrong, I share your values, but we need to be realistic (and so act in direct opposition to those values.) There is no way to measure these "values" that people supposedly have. They are used as cover, to deceive people. "I share your commitment" or "I will share in the fight" mean something. "I share your values" does not.

The right wing uses "values" as a code word for feelings - aggression, hatred, bigotry.

[eridani]

67. "I share your values" is bullshit unless you state what your values are

Being in favor of public goods, and being in favor of turning to each other instead of on each other are values. Ihe very important FEELING is solidarity, which is quite different from bigotry and hatred, also feelings.

[Claudia Jones]

68. yep

We are sure getting schooled on that one, aren't we though?

[quinnox]

44. An empty suit apparently

I got nothing.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

45. Not your pony anyhow.

:rofl:

[jefferson_dem]

64. We agree...

On your second point.

[B Calm]

46. Cash for Clunkers

[bhikkhu]

47. He's stated his values many times, and demonstrated them consistently

He believes that one role of the president is to guide the nation into a more perfect union, as he layed out in the "race speech".

He believes that the nation is strongest when we work together toward a common goal.

He believes that cooperative effort is the best approach to any task.

He believes that we can overcome any problem, if we put aside our differences and come together as a people, working cooperatively toward our common goals.

...basically saying the same thing in several different ways, as it has appeared in some form or other in every major speech, and it explains a great deal of the president's approach.

If you want to know soemone's values, the easiest way is to listen, and the second easiest is to watch.

[Exilednight]

51. In other words, compromise then capitulate when the other side doesn't compromise. n/t

[LWolf]

65. The easiest way is to watch. He is a neo-liberal.

He has demonstrated THAT with consistency.

[PurityOfEssence]

52. Getting elected

and being revered as a transcendent something-or-other.

[woo me with science]

57. Go here for a nice summary:

www.thirdway.org

[Claudia Jones]

58. "what we believe"

Too often, our national debates are defined by the rigid or outdated orthodoxies of both the left and right. This polarization leads to ideologically driven policies and political gridlock, and it drowns out the voices of millions of Americans in the forgotten middle.

We believe there is a better way, a "third way" — one that discards the false choices presented by both sides. This third way philosophy is ideal for fostering the most effective and emergent approaches to major problems — ones that can attract the plurality of citizens who represent the political center and whose support is crucial to effective and credible governance.


Here are a few of the people in the organization.


John L. Vogelstein is the Chairman of New Providence Asset Management, LLC and Senior Advisor to Warburg Pincus, LLC.

Bernard L. Schwartz is Chairman and CEO of BLS Investments, LLC.

David Heller lives in New York City and is the Global Head of Equity Trading for Goldman Sachs.

Dwight Anderson is a Principal and Portfolio Manager of Ospraie Management, LLC, an $8 billion investment firm focused on four investment strategies in the basic industry and commodity sectors—hedge fund, private equity, incubation/seeding and long-only.

Joseph Zimlich is the Chief Executive Officer of Bohemian Companies, a group of family-owned real estate and private equity holdings.

Barbara Manfrey Vogelstein has over 24 years of experience in venture capital and specialized equity investing. From 1991 to 2000, she was a Partner of Apax Partners & Co. Ventures, a leading worldwide venture capital firm, where she was responsible for the firm’s media investments and chaired the firm’s international media investment group. Prior to joining Apax, she was a Partner of Warburg Pincus, one of the world’s largest private equity firms.

Howard Rossman is a President and Founder of Mesirow Advanced Strategies, Inc. and a Vice Chairman of its parent, Mesirow Financial Holdings Inc. He is responsible for all aspects of fund management, including manager due diligence, strategy analysis and asset allocation.

David Roberts is a Senior Managing Director of Angelo, Gordon & Co. and a member of the firm’s executive committee. He joined Angelo, Gordon in 1993. Mr. Roberts manages the firm’s private equity and special situations area and was the founder of the firm’s opportunistic real estate area.

Andrew Parmentier is a Founding and Managing Partner of Height Analytics. He and fellow Managing Partner John Akridge formed the company in January 2009. He has worked in the financial services industry since 1997 both in Washington, DC and London, England, with a brief tenure on Capitol Hill where he worked on financial services and capital markets issues for Majority Leader Richard Armey and House Banking Committee Chairman Jim Leach. Most recently, he was Group Head and Managing Director at FBR Capital Markets, where he founded and managed FBR’s Washington Policy Analysis team from 2000 until his December 2008 departure.

Michael Novogratz has been President and Director of Fortress Investment Group LLC since February 2007 and was a principal and a member of the Management Committee since March 2002. Mr. Novogratz is responsible for the liquid markets business which includes running the Drawbridge Global Macro Fund. Prior to joining Fortress, Mr. Novogratz spent 11 years at Goldman Sachs, where he became a Partner in 1998. Mr. Novogratz held the positions of President of Goldman Sachs Latin America, and the Head of Fixed Income, Currencies and Commodities Risk in Asia, where he lived from 1992 to 1999.

Herbert Miller, former CEO and Chairman of The Mills Corporation, one of America’s most innovative and successful mall developers and managers, founded Western Development Corporation (WDC) in 1967 and serves as its Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and Principal Stockholder.

Derek Kirkland is a Managing Director and Co-Head of the Global Financial Institutions Group at Morgan Stanley’s Financial Institutions Group in Investment Banking.

Brian Frank is a Director and Portfolio Manager at MSD Capital, L.P., the private investment firm founded by Michael Dell. Brian manages a fund, MSD Energy Investments, LLC, that is focused on investments in public and private companies in the energy sector. Prior to joining MSD, he was a portfolio manager at Cumberland Associates from 2005 to 2008. Before joining Cumberland, Brian served as a Director of Harman International, a Principal at W.R. Hambrecht + Co, and an Analyst in the merger & acquisitions group at Lazard Freres.

[woo me with science]

59. Superb post .

Thank you very much.

[LetTimmySmoke]

62. Getting through news cycles?

[jefferson_dem]

63. He values doing stuff to make you mad.

:shrug:

[Safetykitten]

69. Ya got me.

[scentopine]

70. Genital inspections in airports, amnesty for Wall Street crooks and torturers -nt

[Honeycombe8]

71. Translation: I don't think Obama has good values!

And if you list too many so-called values, I will diss that as a "laundry list"!

[eridani]

74. Only two values have been listed in the whole thread

Consensus and compromise. Actually, those are pretty good values when you are holding the nuclear football. When you are up against people who want to destroy the economy for the benefit of the rich, not so much.