What is the best way to refute the 'class warfare' argument when Obama proposes tax hikes on rich?

[WI_DEM]

and they already are out there saying that the president is promoting 'class warfare.' I would respond by saying, 'what is wrong with asking those who have the most to pay a little bit more when the republicans are proposing to balance the budgets on the backs of the middle class and poor.'

Any other ideas?

[kentuck]

1. The top 400 families own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans.

Yep, they are right. It is class warfare. I agree with them.

[BzaDem]

3. +1

[elocs]

5. As Buffett has said, it IS class warfare and HIS class is winning. n/t

[Raschel]

18. Yes. They have more loopholes, write-offs and incentives, don't they?

And I may be wrong, but don't they pay less in taxes as far as percentage of their income goes?

[BzaDem]

2. The Republicans are the ones that engage in class warfare. Paul Ryan's plan raises taxes on the

middle class significantly, while simultaneously reducing taxes on the wealthy massively. All at a time when inequality is vastly greater than at any point in recent history.

[slackmaster]

4. What's to refute?

It actually IS class warfare, is it not?

[baldguy]

7. It's about time the rest of us fought back.

[OnionPatch]

34. +1000

Any non-rich person who buys into this "class warfare" meme is a chump, pure and simple.

[Proud Public Servant]

14. Exactly. The GOP's miscalculating.

They imagine that Americans have no stomach for "warfare" on the rich; they have no idea how many of us would enlist. For a lot of folks, calling it class warfare should make it that much more appealing (though if we rebrand it as "attacking the fat cats" it'll be even more popular). So keep mouthing those talking points, Republicans!

[salin]

23. only in the side of firing back to the class warfare waged for the past decade or so

on the middle and lower classes. Think of it as a return volley.

[Ian David]

6. Why did Ronald Reagan hate rich people more than Obama does? n/t

[mmonk]

8. Easy. The rich started it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Beat me to it.

[deutsey]

46. Ding ding ding

That's about it for about 30 years or so...a one-sided class war waged by the rich on the middle class and poor.

[Politicub]

9. Don't bother arguing with republicans?

They're the only ones talking about class warfare, and they do it cynically.

Anyone whose paying attention already understands that the rich are wielding their wealth to strip what middle class protections still exist.

Class warfare indeed.

[David Sky]

10. Having all people pay their "fair share" is NOT "warfare", it's ....

taking responsibility for the mess we are in, and helping to get us out of the mess.

Anyone who advocates playing favorites, giving special breaks to some, or any OTHER scheme is pitting one group against another, and making the whole system unfair for the majority.


Turn the argument right back on them. Who are the ones calling for special treatment? Certainly NOT the majority of American taxpayers, only the rich and their (well paid) supporters in Congress!

[raccoon]

11. A dignified, well-chosen response. Recd. nt

[CTyankee]

12. Depends on who you are talking to.

Smart ass kids who think they'll be rich some day will just tell you "Hey, I'm gonna be rich one day so I don't want taxes on the rich." Well, good luck with that...

Others, those that have been truly down and out for a long time would probably agree...but I've lost more arguments with just average folks on this subject than I've won. Go ahead and try and good luck. Let me know if you get a positive response...maybe I'm arguing the wrong way. I'm open to suggestions...

[csziggy]

13. Show how the bottom 90% earn less than 30 years ago

The charts have been posted here, over and over. In real spending power, middle class wages have been dropping for a generation. Now the wealthy are going after the social safety nets that protect us as we age without the ability to save for retirement.

As another poster says, "The rich started it!"

[nonpareil]

15. They fired first

They declared class war on us (the middle class and the poor) and have been sticking knives in our backs for more than thirty years. Why is it that class warfare only gets mentioned (or more exactly whined about) when one of us says,"Hey, there's a knife in my back?" It seems to me that the message that needs to get out there is that the war has been going on for a long time, we're just finally fighting back.

[reoneo]

16. ...class warfare hypocrisy

If repealing the Bush tax cuts is "class warfare" then the inverse must also be true...shifting the tax burden toward the lower end of the income spectrum was "class warfare" as well.

[eShirl]

17. "We're done funding their wartime tax cuts with our Social Security."

[Angry Dragon]

19. DU Beartracks had this to say last night

"Class warfare makes for bad economics." Rep. Paul Ryan quote He's right!


'That's why our economy is in the shitter after the corporate class began the current undeclared class war. For the middle and working classes to now "declare" an intent to fight back is not the start of the problem, but rather the beginning of a solution.' ~~~~~ Beartracks

[CanonRay]

20. Say, "It's about fucking time"

and end the conversation.

[Little Star]

21. The rich started it, we have to fight back!!!!!!! That's my answer.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. I'd only take that argument as acceptable from a person whose

income will be taxed more, and of the dozen or so I know in that boat, not one of them would oppose paying more taxes, all of them see the current situation as class warfare against those with less. Like Buffet, all the rich people I know would gladly pay more taxes, they would be thrilled to see the Social Security cap eliminated, and so on.
But if some chump who makes 50k wants to rave about 'class warfare' against others of higher income, I'd just laugh in their faces.

[bemildred]

25. That's impossilbe, the US is a classless society. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

26. That Reagan started it with his massive cuts to taxes for the wealthy

and what Obama is doing is simply to undo a small percentage of Reagan's damage to this country.

[hedgehog]

27. We need to refute this?

[backscatter712]

28. Mention that the billionaire banksters have been waging class-war against the middle class. n/t

[westerebus]

29. What's the best way to rob a bank?

Own one.

What's the best way to recover the money?

Tax the rich.


How's that work for you?

[TomClash]

30. We had higher growth rates when the rich paid more in taxes nt

[blogslut]

31. A new word I learned today

Casuist

Used in a sentence:

When republicans throw up their hands and yell, "Class Warfare!" - in response to the suggestion that the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, they are being casuists. They are hoping this misused term scares up images of pitchforks and mobs. When in fact, they are the ones waging war on the middle class and the poor by forcing them to continually sacrifice while their rich supporters skate away, virtually unburdened by taxation or social responsibility.

[gateley]

32. Heard a caller on Bill Press this morning call it "economical class genocide". And..

as someone upstream said, simple -- the rich started it.

[David Sky]

33. I like the response Obama just gave on his live presentation on the TV just now...

"It's NOT class warfare, it's math"

[newspeak]

45. yeah, I like that

say it's not class warfare, it's class genocide. And then show how wages have stagnated for the middle class while the cost of living has gone up. Show how corporations have increased profits by about 88% while wages have remained low. Then show how the wealthy have accumulated more wealth while the poor and middle class have lost and a chart showing no job growth for americans with over ten years of tax decreases. Could also show that decent jobs are disappearing-ones that actually pay a living wage. And since some of our truly ignorant plebes don't get it, I'd suggest big charts with bright colors. Especially showing that pie chart of wealth disparity. And while it is shown, state that this much wealth disparity hasn't been seen since before the great depression. Maybe some of the clueless will actually get it.

Then read Buffet's statement "yeah it's class warfare, and my class is winning."

[potone]

35. I just heard a GOP strategist bring up the fact that the bottom 47% pay no federal income taxes.

The democratic response was the usual: they do pay state and local taxes, as well as other taxes and fees. Why doesn't anyone ever state the simple truth: that 47% don't pay federal income tax (if indeed that is an accurate figure) became they make too little money! That statistic is an indictment of the low wages in this country and is a disgrace! If wages had kept up with inflation over the last few decades they WOULD be paying federal income tax.

[kentuck]

36. And we have 46 million below the poverty level...

So what's his point?

[potone]

37. His point is that everyone should pay federal income taxes.

He actually said that, and that it is unfair to ask the wealthiest Americans to pay more in federal taxes when other people (i.w.the poor) don't pay any.

[David Sky]

40. Hard to pay taxes when there's no money to pay with! Why does...

that simple fact get left out of their supposedly "logical" memes?

If you're making minimum wage, working full time, as a single parent, with one kid, you make about $14,500 or so $ a year!

In 2011, the FICA tax rate for employees was lowered to 5.65%. The employer tax rate remained unchanged, while the Social Security rate for employees was lowered to 4.20%. That's real money paid out of GROSS earnings...about $700 out of that annual minimum wage, leaving that worker with LESS THAN 14,000 !!!

And that's just FICA and Medicare... state and local and sales and gas and other taxes also are paid by wage earners

Yes, all wage earners pay taxes. It depends upon which taxes but they ALL pay taxes.

[CrispyQ]

39. "Broaden the tax base" is what Michelle Bachmann was touting last week.

Of course, the republican way to broaden the tax base is to tax the least among us - families of four living on $19k a year. Yes, that will really broaden the damned tax base & spur the economy. :eyes:

How about putting people back to work in good paying jobs - how about doing that to broaden the tax base? What a fucking clueless piece of shit she is & the whole damned repub/teabagger party to boot. I can't begin to describe the amount of disdain I feel for these people.

[CrispyQ]

38. "To those whom much has been given . . ."

[David Sky]

41. For those.... Republicans will attempt to make sure nothing is taken away! n/t

[MzNov]

42. Take their slogans and tweak them

"Yes, it IS class warfare! RepubliCON warfare on the middle class."

[Stinky The Clown]

43. That ought to be self evident. See: Buffet, Warren/Secretary

[BanTheGOP]

44. Since this is WAR, we MUST DESTROY THE GOP

It is simple, and yet we all cringe. Since the GOP has declared war on the vast majority of progressives, we must respond in THEIR language and process. To that end it is NOT ENOUGH to defeat the GOP politically, because the GOP is NOT a political party as it is a destructive organization that far surpasses the extremes of Nazism and mob rule. It is, in fact, the most dangerous, murderuous organization in the history of the world with the capability of destroying humanity and the planet.

It MUST be destroyed... permanently. Would SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW I'M WRONG?

Didn't think so.

[The Second Stone]

47. Warfare is when people get killed in organized violence

if that isn't what is happening, then you are engaged in class rhetoric.

[BanTheGOP]

49. I STRONGLY disagree,,,this is WAR

People ARE being killed in great numbers through the exploitative politics that the repukes have engineered for over a century.

Sorry, this is WAR. Pure and simple. And in a war, the enemy must be destroyed, ANY WAY POSSIBLE. That is ALSO pure and simple.

[Festivito]

48. We're losing the class war and Obama politely negotiates. Ask him to SURGE!

We need a battle surge! Surging is the new CHARGE in the class warfare war against them as has and keeps gitt'n more.