I write this to tell those who have known me for all the years I have been on DU…

[WCGreen]

that I am in awe of the true spirit of the Christ but fear those who use his name to gain temporal power.

I respect the message and yet feel compelled to question those who wield that message of peace to peruse personal glory and riches.

They ask to be trusted and to be heard above all other voices in this nation they dare call a nation of Christ because they call themselves Christians and so they must be honorable men of god.

It’s not for me to decide if this Jesus was real, nor is it my desire to profess my fealty to this man made god by men, but I do say this, I have always tried my hardest to live by the simple nature of his message. Do unto others and you would have done to you.

So I ask all of those who care to go further in my post..

How can those who proclaim they hear his word and yet look down upon those who are less fortunate than they? Perhaps it is because they wish to help the people by charity. But by choosing that path, they have appointed themselves as the arbiter of who shall receive and who shall be denied. A naked personal power driven by ego and vainglorious tendencies does not make you a virtuous man.

But this is acceptable because they are Christians and so are honorable men of god.

How can those who wish to pass judgment on those who are different from them and proclaim themselves superior to others who don’t see the world as they do. Where does this appear in the teachings of Jesus? They persecute and profane all who are different.

But this is acceptable because they are Christians and so are honorable men of god.

How can those who wish to fight in honor of the Christ with blood soaked hands of revenge not hear the call of turn the other check? That they believe violence in the name of a man in peace is acceptable.

But it must be so because they are Christians and so are honorable men of god.

How is it that self-proclaimed men of god speak of personal glory and seek praise on earth for what they do when the man who is at the head of their spiritual heart proclaimed to not seek adulation for doing what is just and right.

But it must be so because they are Christians and so are honorable men of god.

How is it that those who take to the pulpit are more often than not living a life that the followers of this Jesus would be ashamed of, the wealth, the trapping of wealth they drape themselves in?

But it must be so because they are Christians and so are honorable men of god.

Is there a more heinous historical contradiction than killing in the name of Christ...?

The polluted stream of vile and vitriol that spills from the lips of self-proclaimed spiritual men and women does an injury to the message of this ancient man of peace….

Again, I do not proclaim myself a man of a faith and truly hold that there is only true salvation found from within.

That I am not a Christian but I live my life by the humble yet honorable teachings of the man called Christ should be enough.

And that is why I am a democrat.

Because the self-proclaimed men of god fall so far short of the true message of the Christ that we, the citizens of this country, must take care of those who need help, to comfort the afflicted and to sooth those who are in dire need of medical help.

Some might call me a communist, but I think I am more of a Christian, a fallen Christian, perhaps, who is not an honorable man of Christ but a man who honors the message…

my 40,000th post...

[librechik]

1. God Bless You, WC

[banned from Kos]

2. Gandhi was the finest example of Christianity in 100 years

yet he never claimed the religion.

Go figure.

[WCGreen]

4. Self proclaimed Christians lead the charge against him...

[loyalsister]

3. This atheist thanks you

We need more Christians like you.

[Avalux]

5. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you.....

so much of what you've written are thoughts I have in my own head. Thank you.

[redwitch]

6. The Rebel Jesus lyrics Jackson Brown

All the streets are filled with laughter and light
And the music of the season
And the merchants' windows are all bright
With the faces of the children
And the families hurrying to their homes
As the sky darkens and freezes
They'll be gathering around the hearths and tales
Giving thanks for all god's graces
And the birth of the rebel jesus
< Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jackson+browne/the+rebel+jesus_20068653.html >
Well they call him by the prince of peace
And they call him by the savior
And they pray to him upon the seas
And in every bold endeavor
As they fill his churches with their pride and gold
And their faith in him increases
But they've turned the nature that I worshipped in
From a temple to a robber's den
In the words of the rebel jesus

We guard our world with locks and guns
And we guard our fine possessions
And once a year when christmas comes
We give to our relations
And perhaps we give a little to the poor
If the generosity should seize us
But if any one of us should interfere
In the business of why they are poor
They get the same as the rebel jesus

But please forgive me if I seem
To take the tone of judgement
For I've no wish to come between
This day and your enjoyment
In this life of hardship and of earthly toil
We have need for anything that frees us
So I bid you pleasure
And I bid you cheer
From a heathen and a pagan
On the side of the rebel jesus.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. So beautifully and perfectly written...

You have shown the so-called men of god what it truly means to be a Christian...

They cannot hold a candle to you and your worth.

Thank you, Chris, for all the enlightenment and joy you have brought to all of us lucky enough to know you...

:hug:

[patrice]

8. Sat nam!

:cry: happy tears for truth . . .

[w8liftinglady]

9. beautiful, brother!

and I'm right there with you.We must care for those, the least of us.

healing thoughts your way.

[jberryhill]

10. It's time for a new brand

The "Christian" brand is broken beyond repair.

Someone needs to pick a new one.

[Dragonfli]

11. The Wiccan brand is harder to break, only one common rule, one that Jesus would have liked I think

I went from Seminary, to Taoism/Buddhism to this, I have not had to sacrifice any of my Taoist/Buddhist Ideals (nor quite frankly what I learned from the teachings of Jesus) In order to be a Wiccan Priest.

I don't quite understand why people are frightened by this attempt to understand and re-create a religion far older than Christianity in Europe. It is a worthy attempt and the most christ like people I have ever met I have met at Pagan festivals.

We do not proselytize however (mostly because it is rude but also because no one will accept a faith until they are ready to investigate it themselves)

In my opinion the grand imperative of Christianity to proselytize makes it more of a harmful virus than an a spiritual journey as evidenced by the disease of fundamentalism, Christians should really stop doing that.

JMHO

[WCGreen]

12. All that came after pay homage to the so called pagans...

I just try to live my life according to the true nature of the message.

I know several devout Catholics who truly practice what they preach.

And I also know dozens of non-religious people who have a moral base built on nothing more than the belief in mankind.

That's why I believe that salvation, what ever that means, comes from inside.

[Dragonfli]

18. To use different terminology, it is a choice to internally evolve or devolve

Or in other terminology, to become more of what is good as opposed to more of what is bad.

It matters little to me what path someone chooses to take a path toward evolution, my fear is that many more have chosen to devolve than evolve and use religion, philosophy, or rationality as an excuse to do so.

Organised groups that choose to devolve are growing in number and power, quite frankly they scare me because of the power they have accumulated, the fundamentalists have become as much of a threat in this country as the Fascists were in Europe in the thirties.

They have so tainted the actual teachings of Christ that they are destroying the reputation of the name "Christian".
If I speak out against them (as I have and will continue to do so) it is because of this.

[Raksha]

42. Thanks for posting this. I only know the "short form" of the Wiccan Rede...

"Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
An it harm none, do as ye will."

I'm familiar with the rest from other contexts, though. And I try my best to live by it.

[RebelOne]

13. I do not believe that Jesus was god, because I do not believe in any god.

Jesus was a great prophet, Even thought I do not believe in the mythical stories of the bible, I do live by the Golden Rule.

[WCGreen]

16. we are on the same page...

[RebelOne]

22. Right. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

You do not have to believe in any other passages in the bible, but this one makes sense.

[Maccagirl]

14. Thank you Chris

As I sit in the pew at Catholic Mass every Sunday, I feel like the the people that call themselves "The Church" (The Pope and all of the hierarchy) simply would be happier if I wasn't there. I feel as an orphan. I know in my heart I can have a relationship with Jesus without the Church. As George Harrison sang on "Awaiting On You All"-

You don't need no churchouse
And you don't need no temple.
You don't need no rosery beads, or them books to read
to see that you have fallen.
Just open up your heart, you'll see him right there
He always was and will be. He'll relieve you of your cares.

Your assessment of the "Christians" is so full of truth nothing needs to be added

[WCGreen]

15. My spirit was awakened a while back while attending an AA meeting

in the basement of the Church I received my first communion.

It was a spiritual awakening of sorts, a jolt to my moral fiber. I felt as if I was failing and floundering as a person.

I have been more reflective and think about what I can do to perhaps comfort those in need.

It takes more than just writing a check and believe you me, I do not in any shape or form look down on people who are too busy to do more than write that check. It is their way of participating.

Myself, I am so compromised healthwise that I can do little.

But I still look for ways in order to make a difference.

Helping someone when they need and I can help is the best I can do.

[Major Hogwash]

27. I called those guys to fix a flat tire I had once.

They said, we don't fix flats, you're talking to the wrong guys.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. It is said that a person shall be known by their actions

[WCGreen]

19. That is the truth.....

[sabrina 1]

20. Beautiful post, thank you.

I think the answer is that con artists latch on to anything that is pure and beautiful and then use it to manipulate people with.

I also think they actually want to distort Jesus' message of peace and love. Imagine if everyone who calls themselves a Christian actually listened to that message? There would be no more wars, no military profiteering etc. So, we can't have that.

As Gandhi said 'I love your Christ, but I don't like your Christians' or words to that effect.

[me b zola]

21. What a beautiful post

And I've always struggled with how to describe myself, and you have put to words at least part of my spiritual beliefs: Some might call me a communist, but I think I am more of a Christian, a fallen Christian, perhaps, who is not an honorable {wo}man of Christ but a {wo}man who honors the message…

[madfloridian]

23. Impressive and thoughtful post.

:hi:

[Zax2me]

24. As a fellow Christian I don't feel that way at all.

I see my religion as not fearing those types of people.

[gkhouston]

26. That's possibly because you see your religion as a genuine expression

of your personal beliefs, not a cloak or a bludgeon you use to manipulate others.

[WCGreen]

33. It is a very personal reflection on my search for a spiritual life...

[Yon_Yonson]

25. Thank you for this thought provoking post ...

I am at peace with Mother Earth, I try to live by the teaching of Jesus Christ but I am divorced from the Christian religion!

[Vidar]

28. Well said. Though I no longer classify myself as a Christian, you do them proud.

[FarLeftFist]

29. Excuse my language, but this is a goddamn masterpiece!

[libodem]

30. thank you

For the thoughts.

[Joe Fields]

31. very well put. thanks for the very thoughtful and thought provoking post.

[azul]

32. Christain mindful love flowered in respect for all life

in the the words and lives of St Francis and Albert Schweitzer, IMHO. Now if that plant would only grow and propagate, maybe Christian soldiers will stop marching off to war.


“If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.”
-St. Francis

“A man is truly ethical only when he obeys the compulsion to help all life which he is able to assist, and shrinks from injuring anything that lives.”
-Albert Schweitzer


How can you love your enemy if you don't love and respect yourself? How can you even have an enemy if you truly love all of God's work or all of creation?

[HappyMe]

34. Breathtakingly awesome post.

Thank you.

[SalviaBlue]

35. K&R

[sinkingfeeling]

36. Hear! Hear!

[leftguard55]

37. K&R...

You are absolutely right. A lot of people pick and choose passages from biblical scripture to conform to THEIR biases.

That has nothing to do with "God", and everything to do with human prejudice.

[Permanut]

38. Right on, WC, K&R

Nicely said.

[av8rdave]

39. Wow. Wish this could be posted far and wide!

[kentuck]

40. I hear you.

I'm sure if there is a Jesus, he hears you too...

[Raksha]

41. Beatiful - too late to recommend, but kicking anyway.

[Beartracks]

43. Kicking! ... Btw, Christ's distribution of loaves and fishes...

... was kind of a "socialist" thing to do, wasn't it? He brought the bread and fish into existence from nothing -- like capital gains! -- and then re-distributed the wealth.

:rofl:

========================