Read These Stories Then Tell Me Why I Should Respect People Just for Being Rich?

[McCamy Taylor]

The Rothschild’s made their fortune the old fashioned way---from war, by financing the British military effort during the Napoleonic War. They then enlarged their fortune the new fashioned way, by stock market manipulation. After the Battle of Waterloo, Rothschild put his early knowledge of the British victory to use by selling a few shares in order to convince other investors that Napolean had won. When a mad selling spree erupted, he got bargains---and ripped off a lot of other investors in the process.

http://napoleon.thepodcastnetwork.com/2006/11/09/the-rothschild-family-and-the-napoleonic-wars/

J.P. Morgan also made his fortune from war. In his case, he bought a bunch of worthless rifles cheap and then turned around and sold them to the Union Army. Not only were the rifles worthless as combat weapons, they also shot off the thumbs of soldiers who tried to use them. Morgan went to court to ensure that he would get paid for his treason.

http://iulzzang.hubpages.com/hub/johnpmorgan

John D. Rockefeller Jr. literally committed murder for the sake of profit in Ludlow, Colorado, when the state militia was used to suppress a mine strike. After months of violence directed at the strikers, the company finally decided to clear out all the workers and their families. They did this by enlisting the aid of the Colorado National Guard, which machine gunned the workers and set fire to their tent camp, suffocating women and children.

http://libcom.org/history/1914-the-ludlow-massacre

Henry Ford helped finance Adolph Hitler. He also made a bundle from the Nazi German division of his company. Prior to 1938, he made passenger cars for Hitler. After 1938, he made trucks and other vehicles for the German war effort. Profits were enormous, because Ford used slave labor supplied by the Nazis.

http://www.bulldognews.net/issues_ford_slave_labor.html

Cap. James Brown. Never heard of him? Maybe you have heard of Brown University. Brown made his money the really old fashioned way---as a slave merchant, dragging Africans from their native countries to the Americas to be sold as laborers. Apparently, the richest man in Rome, Marcus Licinius Crassus was also a slave merchant. Some say he was the richest man of all time. And the Sauds of Saudi Arabia, who hold themselves up to be the ultimate defenders of Allah---they still own slaves.

http://www.eblackstudies.org/intro/chapter3.htm

So tell me, why do the rich whine and stamp their feet when asked to contribute their fair share? Their money does not make them better than anyone else. In some cases, it makes them much, much worse. They will call this “Class Warfare”, but I think maybe rich folks ought to pay a little bit more than others (rather than less) in order to make up for all the sins they commit amassing those great big piles of money.

[provis99]

1. Cornelius Vanderbilt was a monster, too.

And his descendants practically wrote the book on how inherited wealth turns people into lazy, spendthrift degenerates.

and look at the Forbes top 10 billionaire list. Everyone of them is a criminal sociopath, who made their money either through unethical or outright illegal means (with the (possible) exception of Warren Buffet).

[DonCoquixote]

6. with the notable exception

of Anderson Cooper, who is a good human being despite being a Vanderbilt.

[DrunkenBoat]

11. But no better a newscaster than most local talking heads. He's on the national news, & bumped some-

one more experienced, because he's connected, period.

[DrunkenBoat]

12. It's my recollection that his father Howard was a millionaire before him.

BTW, he's related to Obama through his grandmother, Henrietta Duvall.

And to Cheney.

[ChandlerJr]

2. And don't forget Joseph P. Kennedy

But then I fail to understand who is asking you to "respect" any of them. They're all dead.

[bhikkhu]

4. People aspire to be like them

ask any bunch of kids what they want to be when they grow up - the roles may be various, but "rich" is a very common denominator. The guys listed in the OP are thought of as heroes fairly often, the "big men" of the past age.

I wanted to be rich when I was young, but thinking about it when I was a teenager I realized that individuals only produce so much, and real wealth usually comes from skimming off small amounts from the earnings of very large numbers of people, by one means or other. I decided I'd rather have just some normal amount of money and fewer needs - to skim very little, and to not be skimmed from much.

[DrunkenBoat]

9. the amounts aren't so small in a lot of cases.

[dotymed]

25. Me too,

I still could be "well off" financially. I still have offers, but I can't take advantage of people anymore. I used to own several small construction business' and was considered "comfortable, in my twenties. I ended them, joined the carpenters Union and wouldn't even be a supervisor until my health was failing. I moved back to Tn. and I convince very few of the benefits of becoming Unionized. I could hire them all day for $10 an hour, make 5 times that off each one and be considered "smart."... categorize them as "contact labor, no taxes or healthcare...:wtf:

[DrunkenBoat]

8. Their descendants live, & their position is the result of that ill-gotten wealth.

Joseph P. Kennedy grew up wealthy (in regional terms) & married well.

His father Patrick (businessman, 5-term Mass. Rep, two-term Mass Senator, & "backroom boss of Boston's second ward") financed a Harvard education for him.

He married the daughter of the mayor of Boston.

Patrick's parents (b. circa 1820s) were refugees from the potato famine: father died young but mother eventually bought a stationery store, expanded into liquor, & that was the start of the family liquor business. The Kennedys have been rich for generations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._J._Kennedy

[YellowRubberDuckie]

27. Joe Kennedy taught his children a sense of responsibilty.

They never treated the poor like the dirt beneath their feet. Teddy, Bobby, and Jack all fought for them. Teddy did some really stupid, criminal things as a youth, but think of all the shit he waded through in the Senate, how much he got done for the regular folk, and how it just isn't the same without him. No one is fighting to cross aisles and get the job done like he did.
Jack and Bobby were trying to make this country a little more equal, a little less "work your ass off just to be able to survive" and they killed them. Sure his daddy was a bootlegger, but do not ever speak ill of the Kennedys to me. I like to imagine a world with them having lived into old age as public servants. We'd be much further ahead and in space travel and socially. I guarantee it.
Duckie

[DrunkenBoat]

28. You don't get it. It doesn't matter if they were saints (which they weren't). Good, bad,

or indifferent, their position in life & their achievements were based on inherited wealth.

Joe Kennedy grew up in wealth. He may have smuggled liquor during prohibition, but he was rich before that.

Nothing against the kennedys, but they're part of the same hereditary ruling class that george bush is.

Jackie Bouvier, the same only more so.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

30. No, I do get it...

Do not put the Kennedys into the same ilk as the Bushes. That is disgusting and nauseating.

[DrunkenBoat]

31. They *are* in the same category so far as class background goes. I didn't put them there.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a simple fact.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

32. The HUGE difference is the Bush family are idle, spoiled and douche bags.

The Kennedys could have just lived off their trust funds, but no. They were public servants in the real sense of the word.

[DrunkenBoat]

35. bushies may be spoiled, but they're not idle at all. I know, you hate the bushes & love

the kennedys & you're mad because i said they have the same class background.

Sorry, it's true. Nothing more to say.

[Donnachaidh]

44. *idle*? Really? So we just *handed* them the presidential chairs

AND the CIA head job etc.

Take the blinkers off -- the Kennedy's are *just* as *idle* as the Bushes. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they ARE the same. Elitist groups are elitist groups. :shrug:

[emcguffie]

47. The Bushes made money from and through the Nazis.

Did Joe Kennedy have any businesses confiscated for trading with the enemy?

[saras]

70. If you're saying their "class background" is more important than how they behave...

...I believe that's called bigotry.

It's reasonable to not want an upper class to exist for them to join, but they can't help being born into it. That, at least, is NOT their personal choice.

My own objection to the ultra-wealthy is EXACTLY the same as my objection to MOST of the middle class - which is that, regardless of where they were born, they spend their TIME and ENERGY - 40 to 80 hours a week, creating and sustaining the oppression that CREATED the wealth imbalance. It's THAT WORK that's wrong, not who your parents were.

[DrunkenBoat]

71. It's only called "bigotry" by the non-comprehending.

[McCamy Taylor]

33. Being rich while Catholic can make a difference. Puritans believe that wealth sanctifies.

Catholics believe being rich corrupts. And so, if you are rich and Catholic and you care about your soul, or about how you appear to the neighbors, you have to do good works to atone for your wealth. That does not mean that all rich Catholics are saints or all rich puritans are selfish.

[begin_within]

3. The rich create poverty, by taking more than they need, thereby leaving less for others.

[JDPriestly]

7. But the secret to a life of wisdom, to a sacred life of balance and peace

is to take only what you need. Leave the rest for others. That is how to be happy.

[Deep13]

64. Bingo! nt

[Odin2005]

5. Behind every great fortune is a great crime.

[Exilednight]

22. I agree. Even people like Limbaugh. Sure he might not have stuck a gun in someone's face

and taken their money, but he robs people of their intelligence every day.

[DrunkenBoat]

26. Limbaugh comes from money. Regional bigshots.

Rush Hudson Limbaugh III was born in Cape Girardeau, Missouri, the son of Mildred Carolyn "Millie" (née Armstrong) and Rush Hudson Limbaugh, Jr. His father was a lawyer and a U.S. fighter pilot who served in the China Burma India Theater of World War II. His mother was a native of Searcy, Arkansas. The name "Rush" was originally chosen for his grandfather to honor the maiden name of family member Edna Rush.<2>

His family has many lawyers, including his grandfather, father and brother David. His uncle, Stephen N. Limbaugh, Sr. is a Ronald Reagan-appointed federal judge in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri. His cousin, Stephen N. Limbaugh, Jr., is currently a judge in the same court, appointed by George W. Bush. Rush Limbaugh, Sr., Limbaugh's grandfather, was a Missouri prosecutor, judge, special commissioner, member of the Missouri House of Representatives from 1930 until 1932, and longtime president of the Missouri Historical Society.<3> The Federal Courthouse in Cape Girardeau is named for Limbaugh's grandfather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_limbaugh


10 to 1 that's how he got where he is: connections.

[Nye Bevan]

49. So when Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield started Ben and Jerry's

they committed a "great crime"?

Derek Jeter's baseball career has been one enormous crime?

And I guess the Kennedys were no more than a giant crime family?

[Exilednight]

53. The Kennedy's were a crime family. Read The Dark Side of Camelot. n/t

[DrunkenBoat]

10. Where American inherited wealth came from:

1. Stealing from the Indians
2. Government contracts & graft
3. Slave labor
4. Drugs

It's nearly 100% likely that if you look into it, you'll find one or more of the above.

You will also find that once they accumulated any significant amount of capital they started their own banks. That is phase two of capital accumulation.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. There's the problem right there... NO ONE deserves respect "just for being..."

finish that with your favorite adjective or noun.

NO ONE deserves my respect. NO ONE.

[bhikkhu]

14. I respect people who have valuable roles in society

...which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how much money they have or make. I think it comes down to having an idea of what a healthy society looks like.

If you go back to how every person starts out as a child - looking in wonder at the whole complex world of adults, and wishing to have some role to play in it all. We all use and consume daily so many things - all products of the labor of others - and live in a world built and managed by many hands. The most normal thing is to wish to give in return for what we receive - to make things for others, or to do something of value to balance what we use. A healthy society is a fabric of people living so.

Of course, we find it most convenient to mediate exchanges with cash, and one role in society is managing the transactions...and it is unfortunately very easy to replace the natural desire to be a part of society with the desire to accumulate a bunch of cash, and then live "above it all".

The cruelest thing, I think, is to refuse people a role, as we do to many of the poor, while to some extent "the rich" are simply pitiable.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Everyone deserves respect for "being"....then they lose points for greed and inhumanity.

[Tsiyu]

42. An all-american philosophy

these days.

"Rugged individualists" want to see somebody repeatedly hoist himself on bootstraps - or flash a lot of bling - before respect is earned.

Some people believe everyone deserves respect - even the amputee Vet who has no legs on which to place bootstraps or high dollar shoes - unless they prove unworthy of that respect.

I'm with the latter mindset. We've had enough uncalled-for disrespect in this nation and it has done us no good at all.

[pauljulian]

50. Re: NO ONE deserves my respect. NO ONE.

While a certain basic amount of respect is due each human being, further than that, like trust, is earned.

[Initech]

15. Most of the uber-elite got rich by doing something evil.

And the people that are in charge now are inheriting money that was built on evil. Even companies that claim to do good - also do a lot of evil.

As proof - I offer a comparison that was made here between Julian Assange and Mark Zuckerberg:

Assange: "I give you private information regarding corporations and governments for free, and I'm public enemy number one!"

Zuckerberg: "I sell your private and personal information to corporations and advertisers for huge sums of money and I'm Time Magazine's Man Of The Year!"

[Hydra]

62. You can draw another parallel with Assange and Zuckerberg

Assange is shining a light on things the powerful don't want seen. He's on the outside.

Zuckerberg was gifted with DARPA tech and sold it to people, who are now happily giving up all of their secrets to him, and by proxy everyone else. He's helping TPTB, he's on the inside.

Boiled down further: Gov'ts: "We tell you what to think. We'll destroy anyone who disturbs the message."

[Initech]

69. You certainly can't argue with that!

[Selatius]

16. Henry Ford also sold vehicles and equipment to Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin at the time.

The suspension system used on the Russian T-34 tank was a copy of those sold to Russia by Ford. Ford was an equal opportunity salesman. No matter who was winning the war, he was making money, and millions died in that war on both sides.

[AverageJoe90]

20. So totally true.In his mind, maximum profit was supreme.

[FogerRox]

21. The mans name was Christie not Ford.

T-34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34

It also had an 8×6-wheel convertible drive similar to the BT tank's 8×2, which allowed it to run on wheels without caterpillar tracks.

BT tank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_tank

Christie, a race car mechanic from New Jersey, had tried unsuccessfully to convince the U.S. Army Ordnance Bureau to adopt his Christie tank design. In 1930, Soviet agents at Amtorg, ostensibly a Soviet trade organization, used their New York political contacts to persuade U.S. military and civilian officials to provide plans and specifications of the Christie tank to the Soviet Union. At least two of Christie's M1931 tanks (without turrets) were later purchased in the United States and sent to the Soviet Union under false documentation in which they were described as "agricultural tractors." Both tanks were successfully delivered to the Kharkov Komintern Locomotive Plant (KhPZ).

Suspension
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christie_tank

IIRC the Sherman tanks used a 500 Hp Mercury V-8 made by Ford, and 15 cyl rotary aircraft engines. Ford did produces M-4's, but the T-34 predates the M-4 by 2-3 years in development.

[white_wolf]

45. I didn't know that. I thought he would have opposed the soviets on ideological grounds.

Considering what a big fan of Nazi Germany he was.

[DrunkenBoat]

51. Most of the big capitalists dealt with the nazis *and* the communists.

[upi402]

17. eat the rich

they do too much harm


done

[OHdem10]

18. You should not respect people for just being rich. Too often

Rich is an accident of birth. It is what they
do with their money that determines whether they deserve respect.

[DemVoter2012]

23. Not just that...

I'm not sure there's any room for respecting a rich person, regardless of what they do with their money. Even if they throw a couple of dollars at a charity, does that actually mean anything in terms of their character? There's a difference between someone who was just smart with their savings and is financially secure and someone who is stinkin' rich...

[AverageJoe90]

19. All true. And sadly, Henry Ford...........

.....was a willing, albeit perhaps not fully aware, puppet of the Establishment of the day, perhaps their most prominent one! He allowed hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to the Nazi Party, and even spurred them on(why else would Hitler mention Ford in 'Mein Kampf'?), for the sake of 'fighting Communism', and for the preservation of insane profit.
I don't think H.F. really knew all of what the Nazis had planned, to be honest, but you know what? He probably wouldn't have cared much then! It was all about keeping labor down and his incredibly reckless greed, and he utilized any means he could muster to achieve his goals.
It wasn't until 1944 when he finally realized his folly; he had a stroke after seeing some of the early pictures taken of the horrors of Auschwitz........he had spent 25 years as one of the top pawns for the elites up until then. After that day, who knows?
(It is ironic to consider that that his company was actually one of the first to allow blacks to work there......)

In any case, his gullibility and stubbornness allowed him to be manipulated on an incredible level, and he became a fool of almost the worst kind; dozens of crooked figures surrounded him from about the end of WWI to the end of the Second World War.
His rather extraordinary complexity & paranoia didn't help matters in the least: He is said to have been old friends with a rabbi, but yet at the same time, attacked 'Jewish bankers'. Here's another contradiction for you: He was suspicious of Jewish workers, but occasionally allowed black foremen to dictate to white workers! He also supported the women's movement.
And to top it all off, he had some WEIRD fixations: How's about trying to find out if the title character from 'Mary had a little lamb' actually existed, for starters? He also believed milk could be contaminated by air brushing up against it!

In all honesty, Ford didn't start out as the pro-corporatist fool he ended up becoming; he actually had genuinely tried to make motoring available to the masses, and with great success! But sadly, he allowed his gullibility, greed, & paranoia to dictate his thinking; the fact that people like Paquita de Shishmareff & Ernest Liebold were able to come into his life without much hindrance, made things all that much worse.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Drahthaardogs]

29. My grandfather was at Ludlow...

They fought like hell against these corporate pigs. Blood was shed when it was the only option. We have grown soft and roll over, waiting for our next handout from the corporations. The old timers, they knew what was at stake. If grandpa were alive today, he would be shocked to see the country in this condition, especially labor. He always said that the union members were their own worst enemies, and that internal strife would be their downfall.

[Jakes Progress]

36. But, but they must be superior.

Why else would the administration ask people like Gates how to fix schools? He must know everything because he is so rich.

[McCamy Taylor]

57. Exactly. And Donald Trump thinks he can be president.

Pretty sure Gates is in education to sell computers and software to schools. Make all our babies Microserfs.

[Jakes Progress]

72. His motives only matter to his God.

Whether he is out to make bucks on the backs of our children or just so self-deluded that he buys his own PR, his plans suck. His ideas of how schools would work, dredged up form conservative think tanks and his own experience-free imagination, will doom our children for the foreseeable future.

[JoeyT]

37. Crassus was an insanely huge dick, beyond even being a slave merchant.

He would go to burning houses and buy the house and the houses that surrounded it for almost nothing, then use what amounted to a slave army to destroy the burning house so it didn't spread to the other properties he'd purchased.

[Odin2005]

40. His dickishness lead to his demise when he was killed trying to invade Persia.

[white_wolf]

65. If I recall corrctly, he was part of the First Triumvirate and supported Julius Caesar.

We all know how well that ended for the Roman Republic.

[Sanity Claws]

38. Behind every great fortune there is a crime

Honore de Balzac

[spanone]

39. basing an opinion of many on five people ?

[mnhtnbb]

41. Don't forget the source of the Bush family money--helping to finance

Germany in the 30's as they prepared to commit genocide.

[October]

46. I was wondering why no one had mentioned the Bush family yet!

Too many scoundrels!

[McCamy Taylor]

58. W. made his (only) million by using eminent domain to seize private property in Arlington

Texas so he could build a Ballpark that he then turned around and sold to the city for a profit. Basically, he used his daddy's influence to steal some other people's land. Then he bragged about it when running for president as if this made him worthy to run a country. No wonder the economy went into the toilet under him. He ran out of other people's stuff to steal.

[ellie]

43. Exactly.

These people are hardly my betters.

[Nye Bevan]

48. Did anyone ever say that people should be respected for just being rich?

I never heard anyone say that, and if they did, it's completely asinine. When Paris Hilton inherits her billions should we respect her for that?

I respect people who have smart ideas, build and expand companies, create jobs and do good for society. And there are plenty of rich people who do this.

[McCamy Taylor]

60. I hear fundies say it everyday. It was a central tenet of puritanism. The current right wing

Christians exist solely to help the rich amass power and wealth---in the name of God, who obviously just adores the uber-rich because He/She made them uber-rich. Oh, and She/He gets a hard on every time someone invades someone else's country to steal their oil/diamonds/gold. Amen.

[white_wolf]

66. The Libertarians say it, the Objectiveists say it, the Calvinists say it.

Pretty much the entire right-wing says it.

[w0nderer]

52. k&r n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

54. k&r&bkmrkd

[Canuckistanian]

55. I always liked this quote

"Money does not change men. It merely unmasks them"

-Mme. Riccoboni

And it's true of almost every rich man I ever knew.

[Utopian Leftist]

56. Adam Smith,

considered the father of modern economic theory, himself was in favor of the progressive tax rate.

It is only fair that the wealthy pay more because higher percentages of their income paid in taxes do not BURDEN THEM or cause them to be unable to meet their most basic NEEDS.

[Hydra]

63. They also need to pay more because they benefit more

They use Gov't services extensively: Roads, ports, patents, courts, police, fire, etc. Everything they do, they have and need gov't backup...and they're saying everyone else needs to pay for it.

They can go somewhere else and take their money with them if they don't realize that.

[Puget Progressive]

59. There is an adage that says

that behind every great fortune there is a great crime. The uber-rich should not be automatically admired. A good number of them probably belong in prison.

[Puget Progressive]

61. Sorry, Sanity Claws

I didn't see your post before I did mine. Thanks for identifying the author of this all too true statement.

[oldbanjo]

67. Kennedy's sold bootleg booze from Canada.

[McCamy Taylor]

68. Kennedy did not make my list, because there is nothing wrong with selling liquor.

It's just like weed. The government should keep its hands off.