Troy Davis Protesters Occupy Wall Street

[sasha031]

Less than twenty-four hours after the state of Georgia injected a cocktail of lethal drugs into the bloodstream of Troy Anthony Davis, the repercussions of his death hit the streets of New York City this Thursday with full force. A rally that was billed online as a “Day of Outrage,” lived up to the name as it snowballed into a massive impromptu march through lower Manhattan.
People young and old, of all classes and colors, joined hands in a moment of silence to honor a man whom many believed died for a crime he didn’t commit. Some cried, many chanted. With references to Jim Crow and legalized lynching, the collective indignation was palpable. There were impassioned monologues from anti-death penalty advocates, poets and people who simply found themselves moved by the moment.

With little warning, the crowd, numbering in the high hundreds, decided to march. The destination was unknown but the resolve was clear. The police did their best to keep up as the mass of mourners moved west down 14th Street, then south onto 5th Avenue.Parents marched with children on their shoulders. Crust-punk activists joined demonstrators in pressed shirts, repeating the refrain, “The system is racist, they killed Troy Davis!” Wide-eyed Manhattanites poured out of restaurants and businesses, camera phones in hand, to capture what was unfolding.
http://www.nationofchange.org/troy-davis-protesters-occupy-wall-street-1316880789

[dkf]

1. I'm beginning to think that Wall Street is synonymous with Government in this protest.

Otherwise this makes zero sense.

[white_wolf]

5. Well they do own the government.

[socialist_n_TN]

47. Of course. It's a surprise to me that

this simple proven fact is a surprise to ANYBODY. That's why this Wall Street protest is, probably, more important than any DC protest. At Wall Street you're protesting the ACTUAL bosses, not the front men/women.

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Wall Street has purchased our government. n/t

[Puregonzo1188]

2. I am not surprised. When I was at Wall Street the first Saturday of the occupation

there were a lot of Troy Davis signs.

The police response is disgusting though.

[MADem]

3. Way to completely obliterate the focus of the Wall Street protests.

Have the FREE MUMIA folks showed up yet?

All that's needed to round out the crowd are a cadre of unrepentant communists and maybe some polygamists to make it a total freak show.

When you play the smorgasbord approach to protesting, you lose. Day of Outrage? More like Day of Diffusion.

WALL STREET has no authority or control over the conduct of officials in the state of Georgia. Why these people think it does makes me question their thought processes and their sense of purpose.

[RainDog]

4. civil rights, human rights, corporations do not deserve more rights than people

if you think that the issues of civil rights, the Vietnam War and women's rights did not find convergence, you're not paying attention to history.

the NAACP is a nation-wide organization. bringing people together is not a bad thing.

[sasha031]

6. I think this is a very good thing

shocked at some of the responses, thank you for your.

This is exposing the whole system as being rigged for the select few.
The more people the better.

[butterfly77]

42. Exactly...

[MADem]

11. That's just not true. The most effective protests are focused ones.

When you DIFFUSE a protest, you take away its effectiveness. That's my only point.

Laundry list protests are seen as UNSERIOUS. I truly don't care if you don't happen to like this comment. My observation has nothing to do with what I "think" about social issues.

I lived through all that old school shit. When you went to an anti-war protest, the focus was on the war--draft card burning, not bra burning. When you went to an equality protest, the focus was on equal rights for women (and for a brief and shining moment, the failed ERA). When you went to a civil rights protest, the focus was on civil rights.

Throwing a bunch of "other issues" into a focused protest is a great way to make people observing the effort from both near and far regard it as a freak show full of people who just want to wave their signs, be seen, take a few "I was there" pics--just to be cool--a dilettante's delight. Fight the power; who cares what "the power" is.

Go on, though--shoot the messenger.

The Troy Davis "insertion" has diluted the Wall Street drink. It's like putting a gallon of water into a shot of scotch.

[Rex]

18. Your opinion is wrong.

But keep trying someone will eventually buy your BS.

[MADem]

27. No, my opinion isn't wrong. It's right on the mark.

If this thing was such a big deal, you'd be there. Instead, you're carping childishly at me for seeing it for what it is--an ineffective little 'rage against the machine' exercise that makes the participants feel good. Problem is, there aren't enough of them and they don't have a unified vision.

I'm watching the live video. There are guys (capitalist tools?) selling sausages and pepsi from fancy food carts on the street, children with their parents taking pictures, pointing, laughing, and then hopping into cabs, policemen very politely saying "Please move into the park" and most of the faces--save the grizzled homeless/toothless out-of-it guys that pop up every so often, no doubt reliving their pasts or maybe looking for a handout--are college-aged kids with the vans, hair color that doesn't appear in nature, chic tattoos, skinny jeans, etc. wandering around aimlessly, with huge amounts of space between them, giving this protest the appearance of a collegiate football game that just let out.

I truly don't care if you don't like my opinion. I'm not "selling" anything. You, OTOH, seem determined to stifle any discussion save mindless cheerleading, which, in itself, is interesting-- though as ineffectual as these demonstrations are.

[Raksha]

36. In Egypt they probably said that about Tahrir Square at first.

"an ineffective little 'rage against the machine' exercise that makes the participants feel good."

[MADem]

40. Oh nonsense. No one in Tahrir Square was holding up a "Free Mumia" sign

or complaining about the excesses of a southern state's government.

They all had a unified, singular purpose in Cairo. They were mature in their approach. They came out in huge numbers--not just small clumps of college kids. Tahrir's crowd was diverse -- old, young, men, women, children, university students, manual laborers, office workers, housewives, engineers, politicians. They maintained their seriousness, and their discipline.

WALL STREET is the Vans-n-Hoodie set, almost exclusively. There are a few old toothless homeless people there with large grins--the camera passed over them quickly. I saw tourists doing the point-n-shoot--they weren't protesting, they were regarding the action like a bit of street theater. It's NOTHING LIKE Egypt. It's a busman's holiday, and a crappy one, too. The "Global Revolution" people took down their live feed, because it was BORING, and are substituting some lame propagandizing and exhortation that people on the live chat are griping about.

If they'd approached this with one one-hundredth of the intensity, organization, maturity and intelligence that the organizers at Tahrir used, they'd be in a better position. This looks like Spring Break for the Politically Active--it's a bust.

This is not a commentary on the validity of some (not all) of the complaints. It's a comment on methodology.

See, that's the sole point I am trying to make--and getting a load of "Waaaaaah" for my trouble.

[shireen]

37. +1

both protest may be about different issues, but they're rooted in the same festering wound that's damaging our country: an abuse of power.

[socialist_n_TN]

49. I'd call it capitalism

But then I'm one of those "unrepentant communists".

[frazzled]

7. I agree, and it's the mistake the left always makes

Not that this group is really "the left": its genesis is from anarchists and hacktivists, both of whose basic aims I don't subscribe to.

But back to the subject: if you want to protest Wall Street policies and influence, don't start bringing capital punishment in the state of Georgia into it.
If you want to protest capital punishment, don't go to Wall Street. No one will take you seriously in the end.

[white_wolf]

9. You can't get much more left than the anarchists...

[frazzled]

16. I don't see anarchists as standing anywhere on a left-right continuum

Anarchy is a tactic, not a position.
Hacking is, well ... a crime.

Those of us who came of age in the sixties had to grapple with these distinctions. We protested peacefully, we got tear-gassed, but when it came to groups like Weather Underground, we basically had to separate ourselves, asking if ends justify means. We had to ask ourselves whether armed bank robbery (involving murder) and bomb building (and in a few cases detonating) were "liberal." Most everybody decided not.

On edit: I should add, I suppose, that this kind of activity in the name of liberal values was a major factor in the repudiation and dissolution of a large-scale left movement in this country for many many decades.

[white_wolf]

19. Anarchy is about as far left a position as you can get.

It is not a tactic, but a political philosophy that holds any type of state to be undesirable, even a socialist workers state. Anarchists seeks to establish socialism by abolishing the state, where as Marxists would argue that you need to create a worker's state to build socialism.

[frazzled]

22. Anarchism can be left wing or right wing (just like libertarianism).

It does not comport with mainstream, left progressivism or liberalism, which believes that governments are necessary and can help to alleviate societies problems through communal efforts. It's nihilism, and has no "what next."

If you want to get into the anarchist mode, knock yourself out ... but it won't be anything that fits into realistic or acceptable political activity, and 99.99% of Americans of any ideological stripe will oppose it.

[white_wolf]

25. I actually am not an anarchist, but you are wrong in you assessment of it.

For starters, libertarians do believe that you need a minimal government, anarchists do not believe in a state at all. It has been tried before, and worked fairly well into it was crushed by Franco's fascists. Read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia to see what Anarchy is like when put into practice. Here is a short excerpt from the opening chapter of the book:

The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags or with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workman. Every shop and cafe had an inscription saying that it had been collectivised;

[frazzled]

28. I never said anarchism and libertarianism were the same philosophies

I said that both can be either of the right wing or the left wing variety (and therefore, are not in themselves able to be placed on an ideological spectrum).

As for anarchist Catalonia--a movement that lasted two and a half years before imploding--is that the model you wish to raise as exemplary? They collaborated with the Catalan government, didn't abolish it, and installed themselves as ministers of finance, economy, and health. Hardly anarchist in any true form. Other parts of the extrem left of those days, particularly the socialists, bitterly opposed them. It's ultimate goal was a kind of libertarian communism (note the libertarian aspect).

A single, several-year, compromised anarchist government (read: government) that was particular to a specific time and place, does not show that anarchism is a viable, lasting goal.

[MADem]

30. Hence, the expression from back in the day "So far left he's right" or vice versa.

I concur with your assessment.

[patrice]

43. a very interesting & possibly significant (pardon me) paradigmatic point

[tama]

56. Depends

on who is defining. There are ideological "orthodox" anarchists who don't want to have anything to do with political left - lot of bad blood history and bitternes behind this attitude, especially with communists.

There are anarchists like Chomsky who are heroes of left.

People in NYC practice anarchy (consensus methods etc.) whether they call themselves anarchists or not.

Anarchy is lifestyle practiced in majority of ecovillages and other intentional communities, and also primitive tribes - regardless of the word and if people living anarchically have ever heard about it.

PS: originally and still libertarianism = anarchism, the modern usage by American and other "orthodox" capitalists is just what it is, stealing a good word and giving it a new bad meaning.

[MADem]

17. I find it interesting that when I point out the obvious, I'm accused of

playing for the other team or "not caring" about the human condition.

I submit that the very opposite is true. If I didn't care about the human condition, I wouldn't bother to call to the attention of these people that the tactics they are employing are woefully ineffective. Instead, I'd keep my mouth shut, rub my hands together with greedy glee and count my (fictional) millions in the gilded counting house on my mansion grounds, while berating my woefully underpaid servants to do my bidding ever more swiftly!

[louslobbs]

51. You are expressing your opinion and anyone who creates the story or intimates that you are "playing

for the other team," or that you do not care, is entitled to do that as well.....just because they create the story and express it, doesn't lend it any truth. I always listen to the opinions of others, but you can easily discard those that just label you or that might come from a place of pure emotion or ideology. I don't agree with you, but you are not my enemy and I can understand your point of view.
Lou

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Just because YOu don't subscribe to them doesn't make them not left

Maybe you're the one who is not left.

:shrug:

[patrice]

32. 1+++

[sulphurdunn]

24. Who exactly is no one?

So far the protesters have been ignored, but should they ever threaten to actually overturn the tables of the moneychangers they will be crucified like Troy Davis, by the same priests and politicians.

[sabrina 1]

10. How silly. The Wall St. protesters are marching right now

down to Union Square, and the crowd is huge and growing. Buses are coming from across the country and car pools are being arranged to keep people coming as long as they are there.

They are receiving support from all over the world now. And 27 other US cities are planning on occupations of their cities in solidarity with them, as well as Spain and France.

The protesters joined the Troy Davis protesters on the night of the execution and together they were able to push past the police, who did not expect such a large crowd. Both groups waited for the execution then joined in a very sad and touching moment of silence. Justice is the concern of all Americans.

The concerns of both groups are the same, justice for the people. Something that has been sorely missing for a long time in this country.

You should go watch the live stream on Wall St. right now, it truly is moving to see the people finally start to speak out.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

26. The crowd is not "huge." It's people out for the weekend, to take a few "I was there" pics.

They aren't packed shoulder to shoulder and nutz2butts as far as the eye can see. They're wandering down the street. I'm sorry, this http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution/video?clipId=pla_b5f67d26-ef99-41b3-8603-415381ec1334 is just not impressive.

There are FOOD CARTS lining the road, making a buck!!

They'll go home after they've had their fun--maybe grab some dinner and a show.

My comments are not directed at the GOALS of the protest, you know--or maybe you don't.

The protests are being "ignored by the media" because they have no singular focus. They are perceived by the public as a bit of a busman's holiday for the hoodie-wearing set.

Go ahead and malign my views about the overreach of corporations, corruption in government, and even my POV WRT "the human condition"--simply because I think these protests are poorly organized, poorly executed, and ... wimpy.

[sabrina 1]

44. You missed the huge crowds at the march and have posted a

clip out of hours of coverage. There have just been over 100 arrests from that huge crowd that was peacefully demonstrating, two separate mass arrests, less than an hour ago.

That will guarantee an even bigger crowd. They intend to be there for months, the crowd this weekend is bigger than last weekend, and with people now coming from around the country, with support from unions and other organizations which keep pouring in as there is hardly anyone who does not agree with this issue, the crowds are only going to grow more.

The police targeted their media, hoping to hide the mass arrests, but people caught them on camera anyhow.

The numbers IN the city are only a tiny fraction of the massive support they have from all over the country and the world. Not everyone can be there, like me right now, but all of us can do things to help a core group to stay there until some of their demands are met.

The fact that you say 'they have no message' is another indication that you do not understand this kind of protest. They wanted this to be a democratic process, and over the past week, during their Assemblies every night and morning, they have made a list of their goals, so far.

But everyone knows the main goal. Surely you know why they chose Wall Street for this protest? I think most people get that. From all over the world they got it.

Today was a huge success so far. They now have legal help, food coming from all over the world, merchants in the city donating to the marchers. This will grow unless it is violently put down. And watching the police attacks today, that may very well happen,.

I can't imagine why you would want it to fail. They are doing it for all of us.

They are also planning a benefit concert, and they are going to join the other protest on Oct 6th in DC. It is movement, it isn't about how many are there at any given time. People come and go all week. And those who can't be there, are helping them from afar.

Oh, and Wisc is sending bus loads of people to join them also.

[MADem]

46. Even the people on the live chat are talking in terms of "five thousand" and that, IMO, is

optimistic.

I am looking at the live feed and I see plenty of journalists (and I am not talking protesting ones) as well as passers-by who look like they have somewhere to go but are curious. Earlier today, there were TOURISTS taking it in, giggling, laughing, chatting with the cops, taking a few pictures and then hopping into a cab.

I do not believe "They have NO message" -- my observation is they have TOO MANY messages, and no COHESIVE SINGULAR message. An execution in Georgia does not belong anywhere NEAR a complaint about the excesses of the corporate world. That's plain and simple product placement, and the reason this effort was a bust.

Again--to be clear--I AM watching the live feed--and have been most of the day. It's LAME, by and large.

It's like those idiotic United For Peace and Justice mishmashes that completely diluted the antiwar effort during the Bush years--people showed up for the "antiwar" bit, and were HORRIFIED to see all the fringe bullshit that droned on for hours from the stage--shit they didn't endorse and weren't there to support.

I understand protests. I was doing this shit during the Vietnam era.

This is a crowd of young kids--it looks like the exiting crowd from a college football game. This is, like it or not, a "niche" effort. There are no old people, no middle class farts, no average schmucks. It's Spring Break for Youthful political activists, a bit early. All they need is a beach ball.

The police did not "attack." They made a few arrests. They weren't even wearing riot gear.

Hyperbole isn't helpful either. You want to see real police brutality? Go look at the film of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago back in the day--that was police brutality.

I am not arguing with (some of) the goals, I think the execution sucks, though.

[sabrina 1]

50. Okay, you're determined to be right. I'll leave you to your version

of the story. Fortunately you are in the minority :- )

Oh, and I was watching when the police began making arrests, they did attack, People were injured, bleedking, during the week on camera fortunately so they cannot lie about it, they hurt other peaceful protesters, knocking out one guy's tooth, dragging along the ground for no reason. Hey, it's the NYPD, what else could we expect? Funny you would try to deny it though. There's lots of footage of the arrests, and they speak for themselves.

[MADem]

52. No, I'm not "determined to be right." I am, to quote the brilliant but

troubled Dave Chappelle, determined to "keep it real."

I hate to tell you this, but I am not "in the minority."

The goal of exposing corruption in the corporate infrastructure and its relationship to our government is admirable (please read that sentence a few times, so you can understand my perspective, here). However, this protest is going about it all wrong. It's all CHILDREN, college students, mostly, by the look of them, and a couple of creepy grizzled grey guys who look like the same creeps who hung around the Vietnam protests, trying to score with the idealistic young ladies.

This thing just doesn't have "critical mass" and it doesn't because it's being directed by "Leadership By Committee." Have you seen that stupid "This is our ONE Demand" document these geniuses ginned up? It has twenty or thirty demands on it!!!! FREE MUMIA isn't one of 'em (yet) but it might as well be. Somehow, abolishment of capital punishment managed to make its way to the TOP of the list, too--talk about overshadowing one's purpose.

Like I said, Spring Break, a bit early, for the politically active students/student-wanna bees.

[NYC Liberal]

55. I agree with you. If the average Joe Schmo can't see your protest and know

exactly for what you're marching and what your message is, you have failed.

There are many specific issues that fall under the umbrella of "corporate and capitalist excess," but when you go out and protest you need one clear, unified message that both the people being protested and Joe Schmo can understand.

It's not that the underlying issues are wrong; it's an issue of marketing them.

[sabrina 1]

57. Again proving you don't know what you are talking about on this

issue, but you do seem determined to keep proving it. Talk to me in a year or so when the people of the US finally have a say in how their government is run. Btw, since you are so 'experienced' and so dismissive of the efforts of others, what are you doing to help change things, or do you think things are just fine the way they are with Global Corporations running every government in the world now? Fine if you are, the top 1% is happy, in fact this was the goal. But if not, what are you doing other than criticizing those who are doing something?

As for them being young, it is always the young who begin the process of change. Know how old the Founding Fathers were when they started? People dismissed them too as a bunch of dangerous radicals who would end up being hung for treason and many wished it on them.

However, they are of many ages, not all young, again showing your lack of knowledge of what they are about.

Try to keep it real. Your opinions are your own, and you are entitled to them. The facts however are what is real. If you want to keep it real, a good start would be to begin collecting actual facts rather than presenting your own 'impressions' as facts.

As for the goals, of course that will keep changing. This is a process, not a one day protest in which many people will be involved, goals will be submitted, voted on, changed etc. Similar to the way the DOI was a process or the Constitution which took years to write with much of what was discussed not even making it into the final document.

Maybe this kind of protest is too knew for some people to understand yet, but over time, that will change as it evolves. I have absolute faith that it will continue. It has already made an incredible start with support from millions around the country and the world. How many movements start out with that kind of support? It is long past due and we in the US were a bit late to make a start. But now we have.

One thing is obvious, the PTBs see this a real threat, most likely did THEIR homework before it began, as we could see by the huge army of law enforcement they sent out to protect their way of life from the people. They really do not want to share the wealth of this country. But, changes are coming and they will just have to accept that. They had a great run while we were not paying attention, and then they got too greedy, screwed up royally and drew attention to what they were up to.

[MADem]

58. What a pathetic argument. You're essentially saying that because

I think this Wall Street effort was a niche exercise, poorly planned and executed, that I have a responsibility (in YOUR mind) to get out there and show the way to a group of elitist overly dramatic angst-ers in vans and hoodies bought with their parents' corporate credit cards?

Screw that. I've done my turn in the barrel. These kids need to use their computers to study 20th Century History, that'll teach 'em how it's done. I'm not doing their homework for them. It's all there if they'd only do some reading. They should start with picking ONE topic--not twenty. And trying to include people from all segments and generations of American society--not just the skinny jeans set. And lastly, dump the anonymous crapola--find a damn spokesman or five who are articulate, measured, know how to stay on message and who are "not jerks." Here's a clue--you only get media when you have a PR person. No one wants to put up random pictures of teenagers wandering between food carts on a city street, holding signs and chatting, and then occasionally chanting. They want to be able to pick up a phone and talk to a reliable and MATURE person who can answer questions about the activities of the group, and who will be a point of contact for information, not just random protesters on the street.

I also have every right to use my eyes and other powers of observation, and call it as I see it. What I saw was total junk. It was a wasted, non-inclusive effort that got weaker by the day. Maybe they will get better with time, but this one SUCKED. I'm not the only one with this POV, either, you know--or maybe you don't; because you WANTED it to go well. Fact is, it didn't.

See, I watched the live stream--carefully. Had it on most of the weekend. There were no old folks there, except fat tourists taking pictures, pointing, laughing and hopping into cabs, and a couple of homeless guys--and the odd creepy old dude waving an iPhone, trying to be cool in too-young clothing, looking to pick up young girls. Ugh!

The thing dwindled down to three hundred people today, and they started taunting police to try to get press. When you muster a half a million to protest, you don't need to go to those sorts of pathetic tactics. Your numbers speak for themselves. But they didn't do that. They ran it like a high school party, and they only invited the "cool kids."

And LIFE WENT ON for everyone else.

You might want to look at the sad little "This is our ONE Demand" document. It's a one page summation of what was wrong with that protest. There were over a dozen "ONE" demands on the thing.

By the end of the exercise, it wasn't about corporate excess and corruption, the linkage between the corporate-military-industrial-congressional complex, the disparity between rich and poor, all of those things that thinking people DO have concerns about....it was about a bunch of young kids looking like refugees from an Abercrombie and Fitch casting call, carrying signs with their personal agendas on them. Example of absurdity: How the hell did END CAPITAL PUNISHMENT end up at the top of the "ONE DEMAND" list at a demonstration on WALL STREET? There were more TROY DAVIS signs than there were signs about wealth disparity and corruption. It was just....amateurish. Those signs belong at a demo in front of the Georgia legislature--not WALL STREET. Unless these sign-waving bozos think Gordon Gecko has the power to pardon prisoners on Georgia's death row.

My critique about how lousy the thing was has nothing to do with my opinions vis a vis the stated goals of the demonstration, and I've stated that clearly in every commentary I've made about this effort--so you just get off that horse. Just because I think the execution of this little festival sucked does not mean I think all is well in corporate America, and for you to suggest that is just wrong of you. When, in the planning stages, it was just about corporate excess, government corruption, and rich bastards getting a free ride, I found that swell. When they pulled a "UNITED FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE" type clown-show and tossed up signs complaining about all sorts of tangential shit, the thing lost its focus and became a total mishmash/joke. The stupid ANONYMOUS masks, and the unwillingness of anyone to stand up and say "I am Joe/Jane Blow and I am the spokesman" also made the whole exercise super-lame.

The "organizers" (that's a kind term--DISorganizers is probably better) have only themselves to blame. They had an opportunity, a REAL opportunity--and they totally blew it. Instead of throwing a demonstration, they threw a private party for their pals, and didn't even bother to get marching permits, which in NYC--and DC, they'd better get a clue--is pretty much a MUST DO. Spring Break in the Fall--all they needed was a ginormous beach ball to bounce around with FREE MUMIA spray painted on it to make it a total goof.

So sorry, I DO know what I'm talking about--and I'm not the only one saying this stuff, either. It's not the goal, it's the EXECUTION. Which SUCKED. Maybe they'll learn from their mistakes, but it's a pity they had to fuck it up at the best possible venue. It would have been better if they'd made their teething mistakes in Podunk, not WALL ST/NYC.

[sabrina 1]

63. With their numbers growing by the day and 27 other cities

now planning similar actions, several of them already started, I think they've demonstrated they know what they are doing.

Maybe the idea is too new for some people to get yet. It's always that way when people try something different. Predictions last weekend were 'they'll be gone by the weekend'. Lol! I didn't think so.

Looks like the brass at the NYPD and the wealthy mayor who is protecting his buddies on Wall St. disagrees with you. Seems they think it is a real threat to their corrupt friends on Wall St. so much so, they have unleashed more cops than anyone has seen on the streets of NY for a long time.

The execution is fine. The reaction of those in power and the response of the MSM to this, in your mind, failed exercise, proves otherwise.

Now they are in week two with more support even without media coverage than they had hoped for, from all over the country and the world.

No one has lost their focus at all. Not to mention that all the best people in this country, are rooting for them. Amy Goodman I think, knows what she's talking about. Maybe read what she has to say. After all she has actually been there.

[MADem]

64. Predictions originally were that there would be "thousands" there.

They couldn't muster eight hundred on a weekend.

Busman's holiday.

They need better organization, a spokesperson, and FOCUS.

Enough with the Troy Davis and a thousand other "causes."

The weather is unseasonably warm. Who doesn't want to go out and do a little gawking?

You plainly DO NOT GET (or refuse to get) that I find the goal of combatting corruption and unhealthy interface between corporate entities and the government a GOOD THING. How many times do I have to repeat that?

I never said "They'd be gone by the weekend." Don't put words in my mouth. I think they'll hang around as long as people order pizzas for them. Who wouldn't?

I just think this effort sucks, and that angers you, for some reason. It's stupid, it's niche, it's lazy. It's a bunch of homeless-acting teens flirting with one another on the live chat, begging for pizza, and acting UNSERIOUS.

I hope they get some adult supervision--they need it.

But whatever--you're just determined to paint me as a Bad Guy because I dare to critique the execution (not the original, stated goal) of this effort. See, that's how these little movements stay little--when people who are so overly invested in a Happy Happy Glad Glad No Problems Here POV just refuse to listen to sincere and well-meaning input from people who have done this kind of shit before.

[sabrina 1]

65. Again you are wrong. Those were not predictions at all.

The original person who came up with the idea said she would 'like to see 20,000 people on the streets of NY. She will, just not right off the bat when no one knew it was happening. This weekend the numbers doubled over last week, and it was not 800 last weekend it was 2,000. Considering the media blackout, the censoring of Emails by Yahoo, the censoring of the hashtag by Twitter, many people did not get the information until the weekend was over. So someone doesn't want this to succeed. On wednesday night, the numbers sleeping over doubled from the first night to 500. Slow, steady progress is far better than a big bang and then nothing.

Now that the word is getting out, buses are being sent from Wisconsin and other states, and car pools are being arranged all over the country so that people can come and join them.

There does not need to be huge crowds at any one time, this is going to last for months, there needs to be people there every day because it is an occupation, not a one day protest.

Israel's recent protests started out with ONE woman but over time the crowds reached numbers equal to one sixth of the population. The numbers that count are those who are supporting them all over the country. And those numbers are in the millions. I have not been to NYC but I will do everything I can to help them. You don't have to be there to be counted.

Anyhow, you seem to want it to fail, so I am not going to waste any more time. I'm sorry you will not get your wish, for your sake, but for the country's sake, I am glad. It will not fail because the country is in a crisis situation and what they are doing resonates with millions of Americans and before it's over, millions of them will have been to NYC or to one of the other cities who are doing the same thing. Finally the people are waking up and getting out and doing something about their country and it's way past time they did.

[patrice]

41. Part of the issue is that people think that because they don't see the results that they have define

d as results, there are no results.

That's not true.

I think, perhaps, anarchists would say whatever results there are that's the results that should be (even though some of us think that, since those results actually have not risen out of freedom, or anarchy if you will, those aren't the results that best contribute to our values).

I'm not an anarchist, more of a democratic populist libertarian, so I think the task is to identify what the results are and make to make authentically co - operative strategic decisions about them.

[Rex]

14. What garbage.

[MADem]

20. Way to contribute to the discussion. Great "exchange of ideas"--not. nt

[Scruffy1]

61. You really need to crack the code.

It's all about human rights versus corporate rights. The state has become a puppet of the money powers and capital punishment is the ultimate extension of state power. It's loved for its symbolism, just like lynching. Capital punishment means those without the capital get the punishment.

[ChandlerJr]

8. What they really need is to free Charlie Manson

now that guy could throw some kick ass fear into the man, and get some media attention to boot!

[EFerrari]

12. People are coming out of their grief and moving. Good!

[duhneece]

13. How I wish I were there

in person. I AM there in spirit.

Troy's murder hit me so effing hard. I am still in deep mourning. But I will be stronger....soon.

[Odin2005]

21. This is why protests fail, too many fools going of-topic because their pet issue is more important.

Protests must be about a single subject only and must be overwhelming to be effective.

[patrice]

29. Perhaps there should be more overt attempts at quid-pro-quo, rather than getting used by whomever.

There's a thread somewhere on here today about unions having a similar problem between themselves.

We tried to work out coalition stuff around here several years ago, but were seriously disrupted by trolls from the American Renaissance Movement (ARM) and consequently failed.

But, I still think there could be synergy if everyone worked harder on how to make it organized and effective. We have soooooooooo many fragmentary issue oriented groups that can't/don't add up to anything by themselves. It would be good to see more strategically thought out co - operation.

[Odin2005]

38. Yup. it seems like everyone thinks their issue is the most important one.

That is why the Left has been weak for the past 30 years, there is no discipline, we have fragmented into dozens of single-issue groups that think their issue is the most important. Instead of working together we fight amongst ourselves for visibility.

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. +! And it would also help if you protest at the correct time and in the correct location!

[MADem]

33. That's the only point I've been trying to make!

I'm catching a share of shit for daring to mention it, though!

[Rex]

45. Bullshit.

[MilesColtrane]

53. I agree.

The protestors are tweeting multiple "One Demands" daily.

The average person on the street can't get behind what isn't clear to them.

To someone seeing the multiple, sometimes conflicting messages this looks like a "Slacker Spring" at best.

[NYC Liberal]

54. Exactly. I saw these people marching around yesterday downtown

and if I hadn't know who they were, I would have had no idea what they were protesting about. Everyone was waving around signs about their own pet issue.

Honestly, I wouldn't have blamed someone for thinking it was a protest over the Troy Davis execution because there were a good number of signs about that.

People here aren't criticizing the (apparent) message of corporate and capitalist excess; they're criticizing the bad organization and poorly thought out execution.

[rollin74]

34. great

another protest about EVERYTHING

[shireen]

35. wow! that was a great read

those people are inspiring.

[MADem]

39. The live feed was cut. It's like Russian TV back in the Cold War!!

I guess the pics of the not-in-riot-gear police chuckling and chatting with chubby tourists taking pictures and grinning, and all the food carts and people strolling by doing the looky-loo ... and huge spaces between groups of college aged teens looking very purposeful and serious, interdispersed with pics of a few people sitting on the ground in front of laptops, just wasn't inspiring. No drama there to keep the fire in the belly burning (unless the fire in the belly comes from one of those roach coach street food vendors),

Instead, they slapped up some more interesting footage from a previous night--kinda obvious because it's DARK OUT (until some people griped on the LIVE message section) and then switched to a lame "Exhort The Peoples" video that included clips from FAUX NEWS that people are still carping about on the LIVE CHAT. Now they are showing archival "why I am here" interviews of earnest-looking youngsters, but still nothing live.

It's a very unprofessional effort. Worst of all, it's BORING. I guess the revolution (or lack thereof) will NOT be televised!

[Rex]

59. So you hate protesting, why is that not surprising.

Your post is boring, not the protests.

[MADem]

60. Reading is fundamental--you should try it sometime.

You've made your issues with comprehension completely apparent with that fit-of-pique comment.

[Fire Walk With Me]

48. Kick and recommend.

[ohheckyeah]

66. I think only time will tell just how effective

this particular protest will be. Just because they aren't doing it the way we did doesn't mean it can't or won't work. Maybe the scatter gun approach will draw in more people because there are more issues and the whole thing will coalesce. I tend to think a more focused approach would be better but I'm not there and I'm not able to be there so I am willing to let the 'kids' do their thing and offer what support I can. Who knows, one small event might tip the scales and attract more people and attention. If I can't be part of the solution by being there and helping with the organization then I won't be part of the problem and sit back and criticize.

Yes, it might all peter out tomorrow and then again it might turn into something huge. With protests you never know just what the spark might be that creates the bonfire.