"He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States."

[Pab Sungenis]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/5251556905/

In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.

The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.

Now, a community activist is fighting to clear Stinney’s name, saying the young boy couldn’t have killed two girls. George Frierson, a school board member and textile inspector, believes Stinney’s confession was coerced, and that his execution was just another injustice blacks suffered in Southern courtrooms in the first half of the 1900s.

The further back you go, the less of a case there is for the death penalty.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

:cry:

[Initech]

9. Remember the freepers, fundies and teabaggers hate history and refuse to learn from it.

If they passed their history classes instead of making shit up, we might be ahead instead of behind.

[roguevalley]

11. poor little angel. god help us all.

[yardwork]

56. Yes. That says it all.

[get the red out]

2. Dear God

He looks a lot like one of the little neighborhood kids that likes to play fetch with my dog....... That's the face of a baby.

[Pab Sungenis]

3. We haven't come all that far.

Now it just takes longer to railroad someone to their death.

[joeybee12]

4. Good lord...only 14...

What bastards. KNR

[rurallib]

6. that's what? an 8th grader, maybe an HS freshman?

[LuckyLib]

22. Given the times and where he lived, he had probably stopped going to school

long before age 14.

[NOLALady]

67. IF there was a school for him to attend.

[madokie]

5. So sad

[LeftinOH]

7. Damn- just 81 days between the crime and the date of execution..

Given the time and place, that kid never had a chance. He was going to die, either by way of the "law" (such as it was), or by a lynch mob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney

[Cali_Democrat]

19. The jury selection, trial and conviction took one day

[Earth_First]

121. Just. Wow. n/t

[midnight]

8. I agree with you... Death penalty has to end...

[Broderick]

10. very very very sad

no excuse

[NNN0LHI]

12. What kind of people could do something like this?

x(

[RKP5637]

14. Sadly, there are many many of them today, just like then, and they are working

hard to seize full control of this country.

[saras]

55. You forgot to mention that DU is full of them. Don't know if they're paid trolls or DLCs

But there's pretty much always a contingent on DU saying everything the authorities do is not only right, but unquestionable, especially if you have done ANYTHING possibly wrong, no matter how trivial. Traffic stop leads to beatings? Sure, the cops MUST have been right and the victim was a CRIMINAL anyways, doing 39 in a 35 zone. Peaceable protests lead to beatings? Sure, the cops told you to not come to New York to protest - disobey a cop, and you deserve every thing that happens to you, no matter how psycho the cop gets. Live in the neigborhood of a protest and get beaten for going home? Duh? Can't you see the cops beating people? You should have abandoned your home and gone to live in a downtown hotel. Cant' afford to? Tough - you must be a criminal if you're poor but still getting by. Have a paid job reporting on a protest and get beaten up? That's what you get for hassling the cops while they're working. They don't need YOU to tell them they're doing the right thing - you're a fucking PERP.

[RKP5637]

89. Yeah, I've noticed that and it constantly surprises me. It always reminds me

of what we used to say a long time ago, that some believe "My Country, right or wrong."

[Bandit]

16. The American people and many are damn proud of it....

:shrug: Sometimes one really just has to cringe at things America has done and still does today..

[Warren Stupidity]

20. us - we did this, within living memory, and many of us would support

doing it again.

[defendandprotect]

78. People effected by the teachings of RW hatefilled propaganda -- especially racist propaganda --!!

The Rush Limbaugh's of the world have always had a real effect on the

minds of citizens --

whether in Germany or in America --

[defendandprotect]

80. How many believe in TORTURE still -- ??

One of the great awakenings is when people come to recognize that the MIC

they believed in and the TORTURE they believed in becomes a threat to their

own freedom and lives --

As we've seen all over the world -- dictatorships will use their military against

their citizens and use TORTURE and intimidation of citizenry to hold power!

[dana_b]

13. omg - that poor child

I feel sick. Our blood lust has got to stop.

[thereismore]

15. This wasn't that long ago. But we are in a post-racial society. Right. nt

[JI7]

17. this was during WWII also, later than i thought it would happen

[Cali_Democrat]

18. Everyone should read the comments and links to lynching stories

Absolutely appalling.

[classof56]

63. Southern Trees Bear Strange Fruit...

That song keeps playing in my head, over and over...

:cry:

[Logical]

21. Many people on the DU still support the death penalty. Unbelievable.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

24. I support it for someone like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy

Do you perhaps think there just might be a difference between them and this young boy?

[Major Nikon]

26. You either support it or you don't

Sorry, but there's no middle ground here. If you support it for someone like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, then you support it for Cameron Todd Willingham or Troy Davis. Juries get to decide guilt and/or punishment, and the human factor in the equation will always be prone to mistake and manipulation.

Even if you could somehow set the bar much higher for the crimes that qualify for the DP, that bar would always be subject to political change, and even if you could somehow prevent that political change, you still have the matter of discrimination in how often and to whom the DP is applied.

The DP is evil. No other way to look at it. It does society no good, it does the taxpayer no good, and it does the victims no good. There's simply no place for it in any type of society that wants to call itself civilized.

[trumad]

36. +1

[bread_and_roses]

43. ++++ thousands

... as for the OP - there are simply no words

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. Well said. nt

[myrna minx]

60. Thank you. The death penalty diminishes us all. n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

70. Sorry, but that is utter bullshit

"If you support it for someone like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, then you support it for Cameron Todd Willingham or Troy Davis."

No, I don't, no matter how you try to spin a false equivalence. That's like saying if I support life in prison for a murderer, I support life for someone who stole a television set.

Some people are guilty, beyond all doubt, they admit to it and take pride in it(like Gacy and Bundy) and to compare them in any way shape or form to Troy Davis is offensive and fails any form of critical thinking.

[defendandprotect]

73. Either the state killing someone is wrong or it isn't --

And it's allegedly being done to teach people not to kill?

There really can't be a concept of PUNISHMENT in law -- only isolating someone

who is harmful to society. And I'm not advocating isolation cells.

Involving a society in degrees of PUNISHMENT is inane --

[Fearless]

74. +1000!

[Ignis]

112. +++

Personal ethics can be situational. The philosophical basis for the law of the land cannot.

[Major Nikon]

108. Sorry, but that is utter bullshit

If you really were capable of "critical thinking", you would be against the DP in the first place. There simply is no rational argument for it. None, zero, zip, nada. There is no deterrent factor. There is no benefit to society. There is no benefit to the taxpayer, and there is no benefit even to the victims. It simply satisfies the completely irrational desire for vengeance and bloodlust, which has zero to do with "critical thinking". So please don't lecture me on critical thinking when you've already proved you are incapable of it in regards to this subject.

You seem to think that there's a universal way to insure that only those that you are convinced are absolutely guilty will receive the death penalty. There isn't. We have 50 different states that are all free to go 50 different directions in regards to how they handle capital murder cases. Remember when Republicans were advocating the DP for drug dealers? I sure do. So you may have the best intentions with your idea that you support the DP only for those you're convinced are absolutely guilty, but there's simply no practical way to get there from here. None, zero, zip, nada. So long as there is a DP available, you're not going to get Texas to lower their standards on what qualifies, and if anything they will continue to expand it to children, non-violent offenders, and dog knows who else if they have the chance. By supporting the death penalty for even one person, you're supporting a system that has no place in civilized society.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

124. Ok, I'm irrational. So cry for Bundy and Gacy then

Sorry it breaks you up so much that those scum are dead, so much so you can compare them to others like Troy Davis.

[Major Nikon]

126. More of your brilliant critical thinking skills displayed for all to see!

Silly jr high antics don't work on me, but they do speak volumes about you.

Just sayin'

[defendandprotect]

128. +1 -- "vengenance and bloodlust" -- and agree re RW aims to expand it --- !!

[gort]

129. Death Penalty is the most premeditated murder of all

I am tired of being an accessory to it.

[Arugula Latte]

136. You are deeply wrong, PTBBIR

[ZombieHorde]

91. There are many failed policies that could work in a perfect world.

But humans make lots of mistakes all of the time. As long as we have capital punishment, there will be mistakes. Life in prison offers us dramatically more opportunities to undo some accidental harm than capital punishment.

We can all imagine a perfect system, but perfect systems are just a fantasy.

[Enthusiast]

103. There will always be that poorly prepared public defender,

an unreasonable vengeful public, crooked cops, an unsympathetic jury or a racist judge.

Consider the number of innocents that have been executed in this nation. It simply isn't worth the risk. Ban the death penalty once and for for all.

[bluestate10]

35. The death penalty is barbaric. Life in prison is the only option.

With life, mistakes can be found before a person dies, and redress for the wrong can be made to the person although the years lost behind bars can't be re-dressed.

[Major Nikon]

133. Believe it or not, Texas went for decades without the option of life without parole

The scum in our state legislature felt that the option of life without parole would deter people from imposing the death penalty. No doubt it did exactly that.

Pretty sick if you think about it much.

[donheld]

23. There is NO NO NO excuse, there is no conscience.

There is no excuse for this state sanctioned murder. It disgraces us all and helps sear our collective conscience. I don't care what he did. HE WAS A KID. I'm not excusing what he did, but to kill him without trying to get him help is just totally wrong. We've become the throw away country. We even throw away our kids. We are also throwing away our conscience.

[Tsiyu]

25. Just a baby

but not even human to those who murdered him in cold blood.

Makes me sick.


:cry:

[DrunkenBoat]

27. family run out of town: he "had to endure the trial & death alone." & still happening, see:

March 2011, two cases are before the U.S. Supreme Court to determine whether children can be interrogated at their schools by social workers or armed police without parental notice, without an attorney, without a warrant, and without a Miranda warning.

For details, please see the article published at MaryLovesJustice: Juvenile Justice: Kids 4 Cash - MaryLovesJustice.blogspot.com

A seventh grader is presently in prison in SC after confessions he made under those circumstances. At least 2,230 children are now serving life in prison without the possibility of parole. There are advocates who want to resume juvenile executions, so the High Court's decision regarding children's rights is extremely important.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/5251556905

[defendandprotect]

75. RW is zealous about making juveniles criminal -- tho it is our male adult population which

is the problem re violence --

We also have slavery and the racism it taught to thank for much of the gun violence

in America --

When our Founders compromised with slavery and slave traders they set in motion our

own demise -- and certainly was the cause of the Civil War from which we have not yet

recovered --

[DrunkenBoat]

28. another i never heard of: burned at the stake, 1893:

Words to describe the awful torture inflicted upon Smith cannot be found. The Negro, for a long time after starting on the journey to Paris, did not realize his plight. At last when he was told that he must die by slow torture he begged for protection. His agony was awful. He pleaded and writhed in bodily and mental pain. Scarcely had the train reached Paris than this torture commenced.

His clothes were torn off piecemeal and scattered in the crowd, people catching the shreds and putting them away as mementos. The child’s father, her brother, and two uncles then gathered about the Negro as he lay fastened to the torture platform and thrust hot irons into his quivering flesh. It was horrible—the man dying by slow torture in the midst of smoke from his own burning flesh. Every groan from the fiend, every contortion of his body was cheered by the thickly packed crowd of 10,000 persons. The mass of beings 600 yards in diameter, the scaffold being the center. After burning the feet and legs, the hot irons—plenty of fresh ones being at hand—were rolled up and down Smith’s stomach, back, and arms. Then the eyes were burned out and irons were thrust down his throat.

The men of the Vance family have wreaked vengeance, the crowd piled all kinds of combustible stuff around the scaffold, poured oil on it and set it afire. The Negro rolled and tossed out of the mass, only to be pushed back by the people nearest him. He tossed out again, and was roped and pulled back.

Hundreds of people turned away, but the vast crowd still looked calmly on. People were here from every part of this section. They came from Dallas, Fort Worth, Sherman, Denison, Bonham, Texarkana, Fort Smith, Ark., and a party of fifteen came from Hempstead County, Arkansas, where he was captured. Every train that came in was loaded to its utmost capacity, and there were demands at many points for special trains to bring the people here to see the unparalleled punishment for an unparalleled crime. When the news of the burning went over the country like wildfire, at every country town anvils boomed forth the announcement.

Newspaper Account: New York Sun, February 2, 1893. Reprinted in Gilbert Osofsky, 'The Burden of Race: A Documentary History of Negro-White Relations in America'

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22067139@N05/2229531413/

[dipsydoodle]

31. Fuck

How can people be so cruel.

[blackspade]

40. Disgusting.

[defendandprotect]

77. "Beware of those with a strong urge to punish" --

[malaise]

29. K & R

for truth

[joshcryer]

30. My mom wrote about this in her law class (online), all the other students mocked her...

...because they didn't believe it was likely to have happened, and that if it did it must've been a "long time ago." Fucking scum pro-deathists.

[tropicanarose]

57. My God......are you serious?!?! they probably went on to become more of the lawyers we hate.

[Ostanes]

32. Maybe it's just me but this seems frivolous. And ridiculous.

So what if the boy is recognized as innocent in the event there is a miracle and enough evidence survives to reasonably claim he was exactly that?

He's still dead. And even if the evidence said he was overwhelmingly guilty, people would still believe otherwise, regardless.


Assuming he was wrongly executed, prejudice to that malevolent extent is scarce and damn hard to come by these days. So as far as reason and logic go these are small victories.

And whether it's for "white" knights or the black community I can't decide.


Reasonable human beings have long abolished the idea that skin color matters a damn. Why you people feel the need to dwell on it and empower those that think skin color makes all the difference, I will never understand. Perhaps I'm just lowly and ignorant, I don't know.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Welcome to DU

And I agree with your assessment that perhaps you are "just lowly and ignorant."

Right on the money.

Don

[strategery blunder]

34. So it doesn't matter just because it happened sixty years ago?

You don't care if a kid was executed after a kangaroo trial, the evidence having never been properly and critically examined to determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, on the sole grounds that skin color SHOULDN'T make a difference and it happened sixty years ago?

I'd love to live in a colorblind world, but it just doesn't work that way. Just in the last ten years, Illinois halted the death penalty because it had posthumously exonerated too many people wrongfully convicted that it had executed. Mind you, one is too many, but the problem became too great for the state to ignore.

Just days ago, the state of Georgia executed a man whose conviction stood upon no physical evidence, and the recanted testimony of seven of nine witnesses. I honestly don't know if the man was innocent, but there were certainly trainloads of reasonable doubt. Oh, and the man was black. He obviously did not have the legal counsel he required to properly ream the prosecutors for the lack of evidence at trial. But I suppose it's OK because he wasn't fourteen?

Miscarriages of justice still happen.

[Papagoose]

37. I am puzzled by your comment

Do you believe that because this happened 60+ years ago that it doesn't matter. Do you believe that skin color had nothing to do with the treatment this CHILD received?

I'm just not clear on how you could call this frivolous or ridiculous...events like this must never be forgotten, we must always learn from our past to keep mistakes, for lack of a better word, such as this one, from happening again.

[Jamastiene]

38. Racism still exists to this day.

It sounds like you need to get out more or just open your eyes to the truth. Either way, if you believe racism is a thing of the past, you aren't seeing the truth.

[dddem]

41. Really?

"Reasonable human beings have long abolished the idea that skin color matters a damn"
Do you really believe that?
There are many of us who wish for that, and strive for that, but really? I'm honestly surprised at that statement. I live in Massachusetts, where in 2011 my daughter, who is a junior in college (at a state school - no pretense here)comes home to me shocked because so many of her friends have to listen to a lot of grief from their peers and parents for dating outside thier race. One friend of my daughter was dating a young man on the football team, who happened to be black, and was told by her parents that they would stop paying her tuition if she didn't stop dating this man. In 2011! In Massachusetts!
Based on your post count, I can't decide whether you really are naive, or you're just trying to stir up trouble, but, with all due respect, please take a look around you. Just because it should be so, doesn't make it so. We need to continue to make efforts to change things. It's a process. A long process that requires commitment.
Peace.

[uponit7771]

45. Notable racism still exist today ESPECIALLY in the judicial system, color DOES matter here

[blackspade]

46. It's just you.

"prejudice to that malevolent extent is scarce and damn hard to come by these days"

Seriously? What strange world do you live in?
These are not isolated incidents or unusual to the human condition.

[FedUp_Queer]

62. Exactly. I seem to recall a fairly recent incident.

A black man executed in Georgia for killing a white man. Yet...there was no DNA, 7 of 9 witnesses recanted and some said the cops coerced them into identifying him. You're right...no racism...move along...nothing to see here. Look away...look away.

[FedUp_Queer]

61. "Assuming he was wrongly executed."

Is there another kind of execution? Especially for a 14 year old?

[classof56]

64. Others have eloquently rebutted your post so I won't bother to try.

Let's just say--you may not be lowly and ignorant, but you are on my ignore list. And of course, you are free to say what you've said. I simply have a problem with your words coming up on my computer screen.

[Gormy Cuss]

66. Every exoneration of a prisoner who was put to death weakens arguments in favor of the DP.

That's one reason why it's important.

And "we people" choose to dwell on skin color because there aren't as many of those reasonable human beings as you seem to believe there are.

[LuckyLib]

72. We can learn from what happens in the past. We just don't ever seem to be able to do it

very well.

[defendandprotect]

85. "Frivolous and ridiculous" .... ???

Assuming he was wrongly executed, -- shocking --

and note you are also overlooking his age --


prejudice to that malevolent extent is scarce and damn hard to come by these days. So as far as reason and logic go these are small victories.

And whether it's for "white" knights or the black community I can't decide.

Shockingly naive -- or dingenuous --


Reasonable human beings have long abolished the idea that skin color matters a damn. Why you people feel the need to dwell on it and empower those that think skin color makes all the difference, I will never understand. Perhaps I'm just lowly and ignorant, I don't know.
All men die.


Reasonable human beings are not prevailing in our society --

We still have a RW intent on creating race wars --

We have those under the influence of RW propaganda arming themselves --

Looking at our historical mistakes certainly does not empower racists or racism in America --

it is consoiousness-raising -- and something which may keep us from similar mistakes in

the future. Especially in understanding the harm that hatefilled propaganda does in creating

violence. And in understanding that hatefilled propaganda is still at work in our nation today!

[DrunkenBoat]

97. It was the 40s. Within the lifetime of many people still living. And that kind of

malevolence is not hard to come by today at all. As witness the "kids for hire" incarcerations, to mention just one recent case.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

99. The truth matters.

If this young man was wrongly executed, it has implications for us still today. Contrary to what some think, his is not irrelevant.

And that kind of bias is not a thing of the past. My friend's mom was on a jury two years ago, and even though the state failed entirely to make any case that a crime had been committed, three of the twelve jurors refused to acquit a black defendant under any circumstances. They returned no verdict.

[Jefferson23]

122. Among other things in your statement, who is YOU people? n/t

[Ilsa]

39. And people have to wonder why the jury in the OJ Simpson trial

acquitted him? Jimmy Carter was interviewed ahead of that trial and he told that reporter that there was no way an African Amrrican jury was going to convict OJ, not with stories like this a part of our cultural history.

[Major Nikon]

115. It just goes to show that too many are swayed by emotion rather than reason

This is true regardless of race. All the more reason not to have a DP, as if there weren't enough already.

[hue]

42. words cannot expresse the horror of this...n/t

[kctim]

44. Youngest?

His victims were executed, they were 11 and 8.

[MadHound]

47. How do you know, for certain, that they were his victims?

Furthermore, it is a known fact that at the age of fourteen, a child can't be held responsible.

Finally, even if he did commit the crime, state sponsored murder is not the answer.

[kctim]

52. The OP is about "the youngest person executed in the United States"

and I say that is false because kids younger than 14 are executed by sick pieces of crap daily.

Fourteen year olds know the difference between right and wrong.

And, IF he did commit the crime, killing a murderer is justified.

[MadHound]

53. An eye for an eye soon makes the whole world blind.

Sorry, but state sponsored murder is just as barbaric as any murder of a man, woman or child. Sanctioning murder by the state leaves a dark spot on our collective soul. Furthermore, our justice system has let far too many innocent people be executed for it to ever be considered valid.

And no, every single child psychologist and child development expert will tell you that a child of that age cannot be held responsible. The reasons are far to long to go into here, so please, go do some research of your own, educate yourself.

The OP is talking about executions, state sponsored murder.

No execution is justified, ever.

[kctim]

58. Sorry, but I have done research

and nothing has convinced me that a teen does not know the difference between right and wrong.

And a state sponsored killing of someone who has murdered is NOTHING like murdering someone who has done nothing.

When a murderer commits the willful murder of a defenseless innocent, it is an execution.

[Gormy Cuss]

68. Illuminate us on that research, please.

Especially the part that leads you to conclude that teens who murder didn't do so because they thought the person had done something worth the penalty. For the record, teens do no the difference between right and wrong. What they don't yet understand in the same way as an adult is the potential consequences for choosing the wrong action. That's why shorter term penalties in the juvenile justice system are available.

[Major Nikon]

119. Crickets

Not surprisingly.

[polly7]

76. I don't know one way or the other about this poor little guys's

innocence or guilt and think what was done to him was horrible regardless, but it's pretty well known their brains aren't developed yet to be able to use the same reasoning we expect of adults.

In calm situations, teenagers can rationalize almost as well as adults. But stress can hijack what Ron Dahl, a pediatrician and child psychiatric researcher at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center calls "hot cognition" and decision-making. The frontal lobes help put the brakes on a desire for thrills and taking risk -- a building block of adolescence; but, they're also one of the last areas of the brain to develop fully.

http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm

[dddem]

100. which is why, historically, young men were drafted, and now, recruited.

They have less fear of danger, and less of a sense of consequence.

[The Magistrate]

79. This Sort Of Semantic Blurring Is Nonesense, Sir, And a Dead Tip-Off Honest Argument Is Not Intended

Execution is by definition a state action; a private individual cannot execute anyone. Granted, calling executions murder is not much better, as murder is unlawful killing, which execution by a government under its laws cannot be, unless it is of a character that constitutes a breach of international humanitarian law, or has been contrived by deliberate personal malice acting under color of law.

[S_E_Fudd]

92. Since study after study shows the death penalty to be useless...

From a crime prevention or cost savings perspective, the only reason for its continued existence is retributive...so I would argue capital punishment has at its core a malicious intent and therefore could be classified as murder!!!

[The Magistrate]

114. The Disctinction Some Claim Between Vengeance And Justice, Sir, Has Always Eluded Me....

Murder in any case is a thing that exists only under law; only a homicide defined as unlawful by an existing statute is murder. Where a law provides for execution, in the normal course of things the killing is not murder,since it is lawful,and indeed, is the course of action the law directs.

Retribution is not a malicious thing in and of itself.

[Major Nikon]

127. So apparently you believe in an emotional response thinly veiled as justice

And not just any emotional response, but one of the most base emotions in the human inventory.

[The Magistrate]

130. A Pretty Basic Fellow, Myself, Sir

"Reality is that which, when you cease to believe it, continues to exist."

[Major Nikon]

131. Good for you

Personally I choose not to imitate the knuckledragging rubes of our society, but to each his own.

[MadHound]

87. And who are you?

A child psychologist? An expert in child development? Or just somebody who slept at a Holiday Inn last night?

And yes, state sponsored murder is very much like murder out on the streets. Some of the same passions are involved, the same disregard for life, the same disregard for justice.

Sorry, but you are not making a good case for the death penalty. Then again, there simply is no good case for the death penalty. Which is why the US is one of the very few developed countries that still practices such barbarity.

[kctim]

93. They are nothing alike

State sponsored killing of a convicted murderer is the known result of one who murders 'on the streets.' The murderer is making a choice to accept the consequences of his actions, and does not afford the actual victim the same choice.
The total disregard for life and justice comes only from the murderer, not the victims or the state.

I am not trying to make a 'good case' for the death penalty. I just use fact rather than emotion when determining if I agree with something or not.

[S_E_Fudd]

94. Just because it has the force of law does not mean...

It is not murder. I would argue there has to be a compelling societal benefit from it. The death penalty provides none. It does not deter crime, it does not save money, and it is not required to defend society from a repeat offense.

To my mind the only reason it continues to exist is for purposes of revenge. To me...that is murder whether or not it has the sanction of law.

[kctim]

105. What revenge does one get

if they are not part of the family or friend of the victim?

[dddem]

101. well then, with all due respect, consider these facts,

Fact - Capital punishment does not deter crime.
Fact - It cost the state (translate - taxpayer) more to execute a criminal than to incarcerate them for life.
Peace.

[kctim]

104. Facts are facts

and I have considered those two facts many times over.

Fact - Human beings are not robots, so therefore there is no way to know why one person may wish to murder, but doesn't.
Fact - The state does not need to spend the money it does in order to execute a convicted murderer.

[dddem]

110. huh?

Your first fact isn't a fact at all, there are many ways to know why one person may wish to murder, but doesnt
And your second fact is false - the state DOES need, under our system of justice, to spend the money it does to execute a convicted murderer; unless you want to change our current system of justice.
You win - we've engaged. I'm assuming this is what you want. I'm also assuming I'm not going to change your mind, and I know you won't change mine, so - peace, my friend.

[kctim]

134. I'm not trying to "win" anything

I am simply pointing out that all the facts do not support only one side.

Unless you can tell me why I have not murdered anyone, or why any one of my neighbors have not, my first fact is indeed a fact.

The state does not need to spend millions trying to set a murderer free, laws can be changed.

I don't care about winning, I am only saying that the anti DP opinion is not the ONLY opinion and those of us who dare not fall in lockstep are not some kind of antichrist.

[MadHound]

132. And what about the innocents that the state murders?

Talk about total disregard for life and justice, there it is. And it happens all the time.

And we're talking about the death of a fourteen year old child, a child who shouldn't be held responsible for his actions because he IS a child. You save you've done research on this, let's hear it, it should be amusing to see you pit yourself against child psychologists and experts in child development. C'mon, let's see what your research says.

Yes, you are using emotion in this case when you refuse to recognize that a child should not be held responsible for a murder.

[Major Nikon]

120. And nothing probably will

Those who think with their arse rather than their head rarely are swayed by such trivialities as facts, logic, and reason.

[caseymoz]

51. Actually, DNA evidence indicates we were executing innocent people all the time.

Statistically speaking, there's no reason to think our justice system was more accurate about convicting the right person in the past than it is now. In fact, it's likely to have been much less accurate since they put complete faith in eyewitness testimony, which been proved unreliable. Given also that the science of forensics did not exist, that police were allowed a lot of leeway in coercion, I'd be surprised if we even usually convicted the right person.

And the higher the emotions ran, the less likely justice was served. At the very least, if the case looks shocking and monstrous, like a heinous murder committed by a fourteen-year old black male against white girls in the South-- anything that stokes the urge for vengeance, you should be skeptical.

[kctim]

59. That has nothing to do with the fact that kids younger are executed daily

and that such actions deserve the death penalty, IMO.

[caseymoz]

69. If you just want to hear you're own point, I suggest a blog.

With the comments turned off.

The two girls weren't executed, they were murdered. The kid in question wasn't murdered, he was executed. The fact that you conflate the two, see no difference between them, and think that a murder is avenged by murder undercuts anything you say about justice.

Execution is done by a governing entity with at least a nominal effort toward justice and governed by laws and procedures. Murder is the deliberate ending of a human life lacking any those. The first is governed by rationality, or should be. The second is governed by nothing.

Up until last week, I thought there should be capital punishment reserved only for child killers. Recent events have changed my mind about that, because I realized, as you have illustrate with your posts, that people can't rationally consider justice if capital punishment is on the table. It seems that when it's being considered, the people making the decision automatically begin to think irrationally in terms of revenge and not in terms justice. It's as to consider it, they have to devalue the life of the person they're sentencing. It matters less to them than exacting some kind of revenge, and they can't seem to reverse the thinking.

So, I would only have capital punishment for child killers who've shown that they can't be kept incarcerated. That is, they escape at will, and kill again. In other words, as the very last to keep innocent people safe. Not the way you would punish, but the way you shoot a rabid dog.

[kctim]

95. You can call

the killing of an unarmed defenseless innocent, murder, if you want, I call it an execution.
I did not say a murder is avenged by murder, I said a murderer deserves to be executed for their actions.

My posts do not illustrate anything in support of your opinion at all. MY reasoning is not based on revenge, it is based totally on justice and, unlike the anti death penalty crowd, I do not allow emotion to interfer with justice being served. The murderer knowingly devalues their own life when they murder, and trying to place blame elsewhere is ridiculous.

Don't blame you for wanting child killers dead, so do I.

[caseymoz]

107. What understanding of the word execution do you have then?

"the killing of an unarmed defenseless innocent, murder, if you want, I call it an execution."

But then you turn around and say,

"I did not say a murder is avenged by murder, I said a murderer deserves to be executed for their actions."

Don't you then mean an "executioner deserves to be executed for their actions" then? If killing unarmed innocents is execution, that would make the person performing it an executioner, right?

It's better in political discussion to use words in a way people understand them, not just to suit your own satisfaction. You show a good example of being led by your emotions without knowing it. So, you call it execution because . . . it makes you happy? Ah, emotion interfering with you again!

"I don't allow emotion to interfer with justice being served"? Oh, how mentally disciplined you are, and how proud you are!

Your emotions are required for you to choose a point where you think the death penalty is appropriate. If you didn't let emotions get in the way, the behavior you would exhibit is to not be upset by murder at all, nor see that anything should be done about it. So, you do let your emotions "interfere," because you're human and not brain damaged. Even if your choice has some logic, you choose where and how to apply the logic.

So, come off the, "I'm more logical than Spock" attitude. You want murderers to die because they disgust you. Disgust is an emotion, plain and simple. Quit making arrogance your main argument.

Now, I think they should die, too, if we can determine they're guilty. However, it seems the very fact of having the death penalty perverts people's ability to assess guilt or innocence. It certainly has with you. I mean, you just looked at this guy's picture, read that he was executed and perhaps a few other details, and pronounced him guilty, exactly what I mean about perverted your judgment.

I don't like what having them executed does to the people performing the execution, the ones still around mentally twisted by the act they committed, and the rest of my neighbors who seem to lose any concern for guilt and innocence. If that's going to happen, it's far better that there's no death penalty whatsoever.

I'm not shifting the blame elsewhere, and you're sounding more and more like a troll.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. And yet, given the circumstances of the murders, there is reason to believe

that he didn't do it.

[rbnyc]

84. STFU!!!!

[kctim]

90. Oh noes

:eyes:

:boring:

[ellie]

49. This fucking country

[Raine]

111. This kind of thing happens around the world

not just here, geesh.

[ellie]

113. Yes, but we are the beacon of democracy and freedom

Geesh yourself.

[Major Nikon]

117. Sure, and those places are known as the 3rd world

With the notable exception that even many 3rd world countries are civilized enough not to have a DP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country

[democrank]

50. Sickening government-sponsored barbarism

[avaistheone1]

65. Reminds me of Steven King's - The Green Mile

k&r

[defendandprotect]

71. One day, these RW courts will be compared to Germany's Nuremberg Judges/Laws --

It's an embarrassment to this nation --

but the power which is keeping the RW in place doesn't permnit our sense of

outrage to be heard -- !!

[Politicub]

81. Somewhere a GOP mob laughs and applauds

This feeds their insatiable appetite for punishment and violence at all costs.

[Arugula Latte]

82. Horrific.

Ain't that America. :cry:

[Citizen Worker]

83. If your psyche can withstand the assault pick up a copy of Without Sanctuary. The images will make

you cry but it's really who we are.

[Uncle Joe]

86. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Pab Sungenis.

[Liberty Belle]

88. Even if you support the death penalty in some cases, it should be illegal for minors.

Fourteen is still a child, and even with solid proof of a crime (questionable in this case) I would vehemently oppose killing young teens.

I oppose the death penalty in most cases, particularly when there is no DNA evidence. Here's why.

As a reporter, I am haunted by the case of a missing teen girl and the mother's heartbreak. She was missing over a year. Eventually her killer murdered another girl. The police suspected the same man killed both, but didn't have enough proof. After arresting the man for the second murder, law enforcement locally told him they wouldn't seek the death penalty if he'd lead them to the body of the first victim, and give her family some closure.

He did.

So....I believe it needs to remain on the books as a tool for law enforcement to solve serial murder cases. But only for adults, only in certain kinds of cases (not crimes of passion, ie) and only when there are multiple forms of evidence including DNA. There may be other restrictions I'd support too, but I would stop short of an outright ban because of cases like the one above, which was Amber Dubois, the Escondido 13-year-old killed by the same man that murdered Chelsea King.


How many families will never know what happened to a lost loved one if we take away the death penalty as a tool for law enforcement to use to solve unsolved crimes?

By the way, there is an interesting turn of fate involving Amber's mom. She started a search dog team to help locate other missing persons. Her dog, named Amber, was trained to find living persons, not cadavers (a separate skill). But during a recent search in the SF area, the dog broke loose, ran off into a canyon, and began barking crazily. Turns out it had located the remains of missing student Michelle Le, bringing closure to another family with a loved one missing for many months.

[Glassunion]

96. But he was black...

Duh...

[greiner3]

98. "the young boy couldn’t have killed two girls"

Uhhh, he doesn't look white to me.

[wryter2000]

102. This is the part that gets me

The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror

What did they think would be going on behind the mask? Where did they think they were going...a garden party? It's okay if they don't have to actually watch him cry?

As far as I'm concerned, any bloodthirsty asshole who thinks executing children is a good idea ought to be forced to watch the execution. Any bloodsucker who thinks torturing "terrorists" is okay, should be forced to watch.

[CopingBarker]

106. The world used to be a much rougher place

And justice was meted out pretty swiftly and mercilessly at times. Care to guess how many "children" were hung in jolly 'ol England back in the day? How about a 12 year old for housebreaking?

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html

Let's not pretend this is some American issue. Society is evolving, how about we give ourselves a break and not reach back 60 years to trash ourselves all day?

[Major Nikon]

118. Society isn't evolving fast enough, and these things remind us of what we are capable

It's only been about 20 years since the execution of people as young as this was ruled unconstitutional. It's only been 9 years since the DP ban on those with the mental faculties of a box turtle. It's only been 6 years since minors were allowed to be executed, and please don't forget that the human brain doesn't fully develop until the mid 20s and the last thing to mature is decision making. People are still being executed today who have the mind of a child. The rest of the civilized world HAS evolved, the US hasn't. So lets not pretend otherwise.

[Blue_Tires]

109. kick

[Raine]

116. I would be interested to see how they clear his name

I hope they can. Three dead children and the real murderer got away with it, very sad. :-(

[Jefferson23]

123. I have never heard of this story before, thanks for posting. It is scandalous the history of the

trial. If accurate from wiki, a complete disgrace. One day trial, same day as the jury was chosen.

The crime took place March 23 the child put on trial April 24th.

Local churches, the N.A.A.C.P., and unions pleaded with Governor Olin D. Johnston to stop the execution and commute the sentence to life imprisonment, citing Stinney's age as a mitigating factor.<3> There was substantial controversy about the pending execution, with one citizen writing to Johnston, stating, "Child execution is only for Hitler."<3> Still, there were supporters of Stinney's execution; another letter to Johnston stated: "Sure glad to hear of your decision regarding the nigger Stinney."<3> Johnston did nothing, thereby allowing the execution to proceed.<3>

[Beacool]

125. Absolutely appalling!!!!!!!!!

"The sheriff at the time said Stinney admitted to the killings, but there is only his word — no written record of the confession has been found. A lawyer helping Frierson with the case figures threats of mob violence and not being able to see his parents rattled the seventh- grader."

He was probably frightened out of his wits, of course he would have confessed to anything. Based on such flimsy evidence they killed him?????

What a sick society, poor child. I can just imagine how lonely and scared he must have felt.

May he rest in peace.

:(

[Alameda]

135. OMG what a baby face! How tragic...and the beat goes on.

[CopingBarker]

137. Kids are very capable or murder

Like, today for example, a 15 yr old executed an innocent father of two in SF

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/29/BAFV1LBC9S.DTL