Many jobs are more dangerous than being a cop

[ThomCat]

If you look at the statistics for work related injuries, cops aren't even high on the list.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/jobs/1108/gallery.dangerous_jobs/10.html

1. Fishermen
   
2. Loggers
   
3. Pilots (included large and small planes)
   
4. Farmers/Ranchers
   
5. Mining machine operators
   
6. Roofers
   
7. Sanitation workers
   
8. Truck drivers and delivery people
   
9. Industrial machine repair-people
   

I saw another list that added in salespeople who drive long distances as part of their job as equal to truck drivers and delivery people.

and Miners were added separately and one slot lower than mining machine operator, and other misc. extraction workers (inspectors, other professionals ect.) in the various extraction industries had their own entry because of their high injury and death rate.

Flight engineers were added in with pilots.

In past years I've frequently seen firefighters and electricians make the list.

So, what is the point of this, you ask?

We frequently hear people say that cops should be given leaway when they get violent, even when they get brutally violent, because they have such a violent job. "They put their lives on the line for us every single day, so cut them some slack!"

Can you imagine anyone telling you that roofers and garbage men put their lives on the line for us every day, so they should be allowed to beat the shit out of anyone they want who looks at them sideways or pisses them off, and that should be perfectly okay? They should be able to walk away without repercussions and get away with it legally?

Can you imagine anyone really telling you that because farmers have a dangerous job, they're entitled to come into town and be violent?

So why do people give cops this excuse? Their job isn't any more dangerous, or even nearly as dangerous as the places where millions of other hard working people go to work every day, and every one of those other people are required to obey the law.

Why can't we expect cops to obey the law too?

Edit to correct typos

[yardwork]

1. Very good points. Things to ponder.

[mitchtv]

2. don't know about the list..

but Taxi drivers have a very dangerous job, too.

[LooseWilly]

64. The police told me, in the mandatory taxi driver class, that taxi driving is the MOST dangerous job

... in the country. This was in Oakland CA, so it was even more more dangerous...

If I were given the leeway of the Bay Area BART cops who murdered Oscar Grant, due to the danger of my job... well, let's just say there would be a couple less assholes working the drug corners of East Oakland.

There might be other casualties too...

Let's just say that the "Travis Bickle" syndrome isn't entirely fictional.

The notion that it's ok for cops is... completely scary, because the job of being police draws people who begin as far bigger authoritarian and aggressive assholes than taxi drivers. The notion of letting them run wild... after what I saw happen to myself as a taxi driver... is fucking scary to think about.

Just saying.

[mitchtv]

74. I drove for Veteran's in SF

I understand completely

[LooseWilly]

75. Metro Yellow in Oakland...

and yes, you do understand completely. :toast:

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. Car haulers (of which I am one)....

get killed regularly.

Decks fail. Hydraulic lines burst. Falling from an upper deck.

If not killed, injured on a regular basis.

How many cops would do their job if you told them they had to get their thumb hit with a hammer and broken every few years?

[Modern_Matthew]

4. There should be extensive psychological exams required for all police officers. nt

[RKP5637]

6. Some cops are really scary people, like unbalanced, I've met them. n/t

[Logical]

9. Being around other cops makes them worse.

[RKP5637]

11. Yeah, I noticed that when they took me into the station. They fed on each

others hatred.

[Logical]

15. I knew friends who went to the academy as nice guys who left being assholes.

[RKP5637]

16. It's infectious today. Particularly where it seems now to be in style to be an asshole.

What a shame about your friends.

[ThomCat]

22. They get trained to join an "us" vs "all of them" mentality.

Once you join, you're expected to be one of them, and support them, act like them, hang around with them, and a big part of that seems to be training a hostility against all of us into the recruits.

We aren't people to them anymore. We're all suspects of crimes that just haven't been identified yet, so it's okay to treat us like suspects, and suspects are all scum who don't deserve rights. :(

[white_wolf]

23. My best friend wants to be a detective. I really hope he doesn't for the reason you mentioned.

I really don't like cops and I don't want to have problems with my best friend, because he buys into that "us vs them" mentality.

[provis99]

18. they are required.

The one who score highest on sadism are the ones who become cops.

[ThomCat]

19. I absolutely agree.

There have been studies about what types of jobs Bullies gravitate towards.

Police Officer
Nurse
Teacher

In each case, you have authority over other people who are powerless against you.

Police can do anything they want to the public.
Nurses can often do anything they want to sick and injured patients.
Teachers can often have a hell of a lot of power over kids, and what will happen to them in a lot of situations.

All three were jobs where bullies could have free reign to bully and harass defenseless people, usually without any repercussions. Or without any repercussions for years at a time.

[October]

37. Wow... amazingly true in my life experience. Just wow! All 3. /nt

[uppityperson]

54. I'd like to see a link about that since I don't see nurses as bullies.

"Nurses can often do anything they want to sick and injured patients." Huh. Must have missed all of that.

[ThomCat]

59. Take a look at this for one relevent comment about it.

http://www.americannursetoday.com/article.aspx?id=3794&fid=3744

The stuff I saw was printed, not online, and it was from a friend who is a nurse. She was the one who first clued me in that bullying is apparently a huge problem in some places among nurses.

If you do a search on the top of bullying in the workplace though, you'll find a lot of information in general about the differences between bullying in male dominated jobs and female dominated jobs. Men who bully tend to target men and women equally, and do so overtly. Women who bully tend to only target women, and do so very covertly, so they undermine other women's careers and they are harder to spot.

The stuff that is online about bullying in the health care field tends to be about doctors who bully. I think that will be a lot less surprising. I think a lot more people have had blatant experiences at least once with abusive and hostile doctors who like to throw their superiority or authority around.

[uppityperson]

60. I've seen this article before, has some interesting and some silly stuff

Silly: " Pit bulls, scorpions, and snakes create conflict in an effort to feel powerful."

I have run across bullying by a nurse, but can only recall 1 in all my yrs. Maybe I've been lucky. Have run across a few abusive and/or hostile doctors, god-complexes there. But again, in the minority.

[RobinA]

76. I Work in a Hospital

but not as a nurse or any other medical person. The nurses treat each other horrendously. No, not all nurses. But in general I've never met a more trash-talking, back stabbing bunch. And I worked for a large law firm.

[TwilightGardener]

106. They are a back stabbing bunch. One of the reasons I got out of the field.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

117. Awesome

Teachers get thrown in now too......this is like a teabagger meme. Keep up the good work!

[Major Nikon]

39. They give them IQ tests

If they score too high, they don't get the job.


And no, I'm not kidding.

[MedicalAdmin]

56. I applied to an academy once.

I failed the entrance exam by scoring too high.

They told me I wouldn't be happy. WTF? I thought bright cops were desirable for solving crimes and shit? I guess having bright enforcers might not work out for TPTB.

[Major Hogwash]

70. And sometimes, some of them pass them, too.

Ohhh, dat's a good one!!

[Iggo]

72. There are.

It's who's doing the testing that you should be worried about.

[Supply Side Jesus]

103. I had to take one

before starting, very extensive..

[RKP5637]

5. K&R!!! n/t

[Oceansaway]

7. K&R...n/t

[Jamastiene]

8. K&R

Cops shouldn't go around attacking non-violent protesters in this country. We are supposed to have the right to protest. The cops just go there to attack people at protests liberals have. Yet, the Tea Partiers can openly threaten violence and carry guns to their protests and nothing is ever done to them. There is something incredibly wrong with that picture.

I'm sick of hearing apologists who are siding with those with power who abuse that power to attack nonviolent people, especially on a supposedly liberal message board. Of course, I've seen the rightward slant of this board in the last couple of years. So, I should not be surprised. Sometimes, it is hard to tell the difference between FR and DU any more. :eyes:

[lonestarnot]

10. K & R for headline.

[virgogal]

12. We would be better off if all police departments were eliminated and we

took care of ourselves.

No more police brutality.

[Zanzoobar]

13. Why can't we expect cops to obey the law too?

Answer: Human nature.

It's simple, really.

[coalition_unwilling]

100. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Roughly translated: "Who

will guard the guardians?")

In my humble opinion, civilian review boards with robust enforcement power offers the best hope for policing the police. When a sadist like Bologna acts out in public, not only he but his entire chain of command needs to be hauled on the carpet immediately and dressed down in the strongest of terms, including suspensions without pay, demotions in rank and, in the case of Bologna, a criminal indictment.

[ixion]

14. big K/R

I've always felt that was a lame excuse for their unacceptable behavior.

[NYC_SKP]

17. How about Active Service Duty US Soldiers?

Hell, veterans for that matter given illnesses, post-traumatic stress disorder, and an average of 18 suicides per day, every day.

x(

[ThomCat]

21. That is very true.

With the stop-losses, and the endless wars for no damned reasons, and all the hells that go with being deployed...

And with the added stresses that some groups of active duty personnel face on top of that, like the threats of rapes and sexual assaults that the women in the military have to deal with, and the harassment that atheist and non-christian personnel have to deal with from the preaching fundamentalists who seem to be taking over...

I am very surprised our service men and women weren't on that list. I'm sure they would rank at the top.

[riderinthestorm]

20. I already knew this as a small farmer

you would not believe my workmen's comp policy rates....

That said, I dunno that being a cop or firemen doesn't have that "adrenaline" rush that makes it appear more sexily "dangerous". Regardless, I don't begrudge them their due - they earn their living in a dangerous occupation same as me. Godspeed.

[Better Believe It]

24. When workers in the occupations listed die on the job they don't make the headlines like cops.

[GKirk]

26. Because they weren't murdered...

...I'm guessing.

[LooseWilly]

79. Watch for stories about taxi drivers...

you might change your guess...

You won't see sections of highways, or even city streets, named after the "fallen taxi drivers" though— that I can guarantee you. Instead you'll see the police ticketing them for stopping when a passenger decides to blithely open a door and climb out in a no-stopping zone.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. You know those are high risk jobs... but they aren't as hard

You've over-rated the accident caused by not following principles towards safety with that of the accident waiting to happen just by showing up for work, and the aggressive behavior to you because you are you. You over-look the house call you go to where there isn't a birthday party going on, but a kid so abused or spousal abuse, or general psychosis, whereby you need to follow (with suppressed feelings) the report, and suppressed feelings). You over-look the stinking behavior of alcohol within these episodes, or some person so fucked up on crack, or other pharmaceuticals.

We can and do expect laws to be followed. When the roofer doesn't, you get a bad roof and he hurts himself. When health care workers don't, you have dead or severely compromised patients, and when cops do, you have persons who are not protected and death on either end of the badge.

[ThomCat]

27. Really? Have you ever done any farming?

Have you ever done any roofing?

Have you ever done any mining or extraction work to know how hard it is?

How about commercial fishing?

How would you know that these aren't as hard?

I do know from talking to more than one cop I've known personally that a large part of their job is really just waiting, and very incredibly boring. It is only dangerous for very short periods of time, very rarely, and all of their regulations are designs to make sure they are not the ones facing that danger. If someone is dangerous, and they know it, they don't approach, they don't confront, and they have remote and long distance ways of dealing with that hostile person or situation.

Any hostility gives them permission to use greater force too, so the moment they see any hostility, they can take someone down in order to make sure they stay safe. Nobody in any other job can eliminate the risks that way.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[MrMickeysMom]

30. On the contrary...

I do know what I'm talking about... Do you?

[ThomCat]

40. Yes, actually.

Having done 2 of those jobs.

[tkmorris]

65. Copping harder than roofing? 100% bullshit

Sorry. While every occupation comes with it's own unique difficulties being a police officer is one of the easiest on that list above.

[MrMickeysMom]

67. Said the roofer ...

:eyes:

Can you see how stupid this argument is? The person with tunnel vision sees all...

[tkmorris]

81. BZZZTT I'm not even remotely a roofer.

The rest of your post is quite accurate madam, but I am not the one with tunnel vision here.

[MrMickeysMom]

91. Well, good for you!

You're just wide open, then!

[tkmorris]

93. Open minded? I certainly do try to be, yes

[ellisonz]

47. Vastly more cops die in traffic accidents than by violent means.

They patrol

[RobinA]

78. It Doesn't Matter

if they ACTUALLY die. A cop has to approach every situation as potentially life or death because now and then it is. This takes an incredible toll. No, I am not a cop.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Yeah, come work with me for even an hour and tell me my farming job isn't as "hard"

Bullshit. Good luck with that. I double dog dare you to come out with me for a day, hell even an hour.

Again, I don't begrudge cops or firemen their due. Just don't diminish what I do in comparison.....

[MrMickeysMom]

31. No one was "diminishing" farming...

For crying out loud... do you not know the difference between incredibly hard work and work that is tremendously stressful?

Hardness scales of work... what a subject. Maybe the components of one are physically and mentally tasking, but NOTHING is as mentally tasking as some of the situations cops have to face.

You need not double dog dare me, cause I've done that for a number of days, and I respect it a lot. Have you been a cop in the inner city for one day? No, I didn't think you ever did that...

[riderinthestorm]

35. Have you ever galloped 1000 lbs of animal for a mile?

And you tell me this isn't stressful?? Or mentally and physically taxing? You do know that jockeys are, lb for lb, the most physically fit of ALL professional athletes doncha?

You have absolutely no fucking idea. You do NOT know of what you speak. My job is both incredibly hard work and tremendously MENTALLY and physically stressful. I wouldn't trade it for the world but don't you DARE tell me that for "crying out loud", I don't know shit.

Have you ever been a large livestock farmer for a day? No I don't think you ever did that. I've done this for 25 years with nary a day off. Try that on for size. Face off with a stupid one ton animal having a bad day (par for the course EVERY day of my life) and we can swap stories. I work "injured" every day of my life but there's never a day off.

I freaking HATE it when someone diminishes farming occupations. Eat REAL shit in my trade.

Cops are NOT on the list of the most dangerous occupations. Got it? Farmers are. And there's a reason for that.

[MrMickeysMom]

45. Because I advocate mental stress in a career, you create this myth...

That I diminish farming occupations. Since you would rather take on a nasty tone to act so humble about what you do, why don't you just save further energy and box yourself in so nobody can touch what you do, know what you know, or top the career you have.

Let's hear it for you! :applause:

[riderinthestorm]

86. Nice. You have marginalized farming occupations,not me.

I was responding to the OP's list, and that farming really IS dangerous. You however, refuse to acknowledge it. Good on ya. It's no skin off MY nose but it is for the rest who labor without honor or real acknowledgement about their profession. It's easy to joke about the other dangerous professions on that list, and prop up the MYTH that cops and firefighters are the only true, daily heroic occupations but I refuse to back down on behalf of my kin.

The American public is so far removed from it's roots, it cannot even remember where it came from. Most of those occupations stem from our real roots.

The vast majority of children of people who are engaged in those occupations RUN far, far away from taking them up because they've seen the hideous workload and STRESS and injury from the job.

[MrMickeysMom]

90. Read for meaning....

... or go start a fight with someone else, as you seem to need to. You see things that are not written, or need to read again. I really don't care what it is, just cut the crap.

By my saying that one occupation is more mentally stressful than another thing is not to "refuse to acknowledge the first" occupation as being dangerous. Of course farming, emergency medicine, mill-working, coal mining, and police work is dangerous. I could think of more, but why bother, as you should have gotten the point already.

I think you post using a logic of absolutes... if so, go make an argument for them with someone else, as you now being ridiculous.

Have a nice day.

[riderinthestorm]

94. Nope, you appear blind to whats plainly writ.

I would never diss firefighters, cops, or any other hazardous occupation NOT on the OP's list....

You however, don't seem to, or want to, acknowledge the truth or facts about farming or logging or other trades. You appear positioned to only rally that YOUR (insert career field here) is MORE stressful/harmful/fatalistic or whatever regardless of the stats.

That's my only point. I'm not making absolutes. I'm dealing with real facts, not crap. Honestly, truly, I weep whenever a staff member is injured here. I pay a small fortune in WC insurance and am vicious with the fools at my ins co who want to try to talk to me out of a claim that an employee was injured "knitting" at home instead of mucking stalls. This biz is incredibly hard on employees and I protect all of us. I know who comprises those stats intimately and anyone who dares to diminish their courage or hard work will come up against MY hard wall immediately.

[blueamy66]

73. My best friend, as a child, lived on a dairy

and those dairyhands worked their asses off...can't imagine doing what you do....

I tip my hat.....

[polly7]

84. I dreaded harvest time most with the ambulance.

This is a pretty sleepy place, and while we do have our continuous fair-share of mva's, getting a call to a farming accident you just know, things are going to be bad. Tired farmers trying to beat the weather and the clock, taking off safety-guards, not shutting down machinery ... some pretty horrific accidents.

I've been run over by cows and thrown off horses ...... yes, farming can be very dangerous. (But, I wouldn't have traded a second of it).

[blueamy66]

I got thrown off a horse into a concrete irrigation ditch

now that hurt

:-)

[polly7]

109. I would say so! I'm glad you're ok. nt.

[blueamy66]

I got thrown off a horse into a concrete irrigation ditch

now that hurt

:-)

[blueamy66]

108. I got thrown off a horse into a concrete irrigation ditch

now that hurt

:-)

[sammytko]

34. Thank you!

Those jobs have their dangers, but you don't go to them thinkingbthat today could be thecday you die. It's a different kind of danger.

[ThomCat]

42. Tell that to the miners who knew about the levels of

safety violations, and said publicly that they knew it was only a matter of time before there would be serious mine cave-ins and accidents. They went to work every day knowing it was only a matter of time.

Do you really think that fire-fighters don't have that kind of stress, and don't have it far more often?

For commercial fishermen, some of the risks they cited were being out in storms on slippery decks, or up in rigging, and doing physically demanding and stressful work in conditions that they knew could sweep them overboard at any moment if they weren't lucky. Do your really think they don't worry about whether they're going to die?

To believe that only police officers think that they face death is delusional!

I've worked in inner city neighborhoods where EVERYONE thinks that they could be facing death every time they walk to or from the subway station because of how dangerous the area is. Everyone worried about it, but had to suck up and deal with it anyway, and simply walk through it to get to and from work, and work in that neighborhood despite the chance that if something bad happened it could spill inside. We didn't even get the protections that cops have. No bullet-proof vests. No guns. No ability to call in back-up who had those things on a moment's notice, no weapons to protect ourselves. It was just us, trying not to end up as targets.

Do you really, honestly believe that only cops have a fear of death because of criminals? Cops probably have the LEAST reason to fear death from those criminals. If criminals are acting violently, cops will avoid putting themselves at risk at all costs. If that means leaving civilians at risk, and people end up killed, hey, it was only civilians. The cops can then get a clear shot and add some murder charges.

Every procedure is designed to keep them safe, first and foremost. Every tool and resource they have available to them is designed to keep them safe. In a dangerous situation, they are the safest people there. It is anyone else unfortunately enough to be there who is going to die first. Civilians first.

[tkmorris]

66. Cops don't do that either.

This idea that cops go to work every day thinking "this could be the day I die" is absolute nonsense, which people only believe if they've had a steady diet of TV cop shows to bolster that belief. The reality isn't like that. Most cops go their entire career without ever even firing their weapon except on the range.

Try driving a cab on the overnight shift. You don't even get to have a gun and a radio to call for backup. It's a bit like being a rabbit in a wolves den. THAT's a job you go to wondering if tonight is the night someone gets in your cab desperate enough to demand the cash they know damned well you have.

[midnight]

44. Nurses are on the front lines dealing with this population everyday...

Most don't get a lunch hour or a pension....and their job is by far as difficult and dangerous....

[aikoaiko]

29. true, but if you screwed around or didn't follow orders on those jobs you can get your ass kicked.

I worked on a tree crew and they were good guys who joked around, but if you screwed around in ways that interfered with the job or even joked about a safety measure, you got roughed up.


When I say this, I am in no way condoning unwarranted usages of force by police.

[treestar]

32. All accidents and injuries vs fatal accidents

I would say fatalities would be a better measure.

A roofer may be likely to sustain many injuries that aren't death.

Cops deal with criminals a lot. Criminals often are crazy and have deadly weapons.

Sorry a local cop just got stabbed to death taking down a routine chase suspect - not in the mood for this.

[ThomCat]

33. The lists address FATALITIES.

It would help if you looked before you jump to conclusions.

I don't care if you're in the mood to be biased in favor on cops and pretend that people don't die on lots of other jobs. That's still no excuse for thinking they're allowed to break the law.

[treestar]

48. I didn't say they could break the law, did I?

But trying to minimize their danger over the idea that roofers are killed more often (if that is so, and this survey may not be accurate) is just evil. Roofers can take precautions. They may have accidents. But some crazed nut stabbing a police officer to death with one blow is not something that arises out of someone's negligence. The others can take precautions - with cops, it is in the nature of the job. There are only so many precautions they can take.

Pisses me off that someone is trying to say fishermen or roofers are "braver" than cops. It's what one is taking on.

[ThomCat]

52. It pisses me off that someone is saying they're not at least

just as brave. There is nothing that shows that cops are any braver than anybody else. There is a hell of a lot of evidence that many cops aren't all that brave. In fact, many are bullies, and one common trait of bullies is not being all that personally brave. They put others in danger but not themselves. They deflect danger to others before facing it themselves.

[buddysmellgood]

36. I don't see it as an excuse and I don't think "danger" is cited as the

reason. Unlike most of the dangerous professions listed, cops deal with the underbelly of society everyday. When you call a cop, or get stopped by a cop, or have to talk to a cop, it's more than likely because something has gone wrong. It's a shitty day for you, and you get to share it with a cop. That shapes a person. It's a reason, not an excuse.

[MrSlayer]

38. The difference is that a truck driver doesn't intentionally drive into a wall.

The garbage men do not intentionally put their arms in the masher. The roofer isn't obligated to stop the 6'9" biker who is tripped out on PCP and hacking people with a machete. The commercial pilots aren't there to protect us from criminals. Spend just one day without the police and the cities would explode.

Now, that is not to say that wanton abuse should be tolerated. Obviously, criminal acts by the police must be prosecuted. However, this image of the knuckledragging, bully, bloodthirsty fascist cop that can't wait to wade into a crowd of peaceful protesters is highly exaggerated. Of course we expect them to obey the law but they do have to get physical with people so really it comes down to what is reasonable force and what is not. When they are being unreasonable it is usually pretty clear.

I'm a construction electrician and it is a very dangerous job. Literally, every day I leave my house for work could be my last, simply because of the nature of my trade. I'm risking myself in (mostly) controlled conditions and very rarely putting myself in danger intentionally. Police do the opposite. They intentionally place themselves in danger for the benefit of everyone. I know what I can reasonably expect every day on the job as can the accountant or baker. Police do not have that luxury. That's why I think it's worse when someone kills a cop than when a road worker gets hit by a car. Mainly because a cop killing is a crime against all of us. A crime against society. The multitude acts of kindness and heroism that get ignored every day far outweigh the heinous actions of the few that really go over the line. You rarely hear about the good things but the bad things get sensationalized.

Police work is much different than catching fish, lumberjacking or making widgets.

[MindPilot]

43. How many times a month, or a week, or a day

does a "knuckledragging, bully, bloodthirsty fascist cop that can't wait to wade into a crowd of peaceful protesters" have to get caught on camera actually wading into a crowd of peaceful protesters before it's not "highly exaggerated"?

Obviously there are a lot of good cops out there, but they sure don't seem to mind having the negative image. I have yet to see an instance where--take recent events for example--a good cop intervenes when the brutality heads toward excessive.

[NNN0LHI]

49. I was number 9 on the list and yes I intentionally put myself into danger every time I went to work

Much of my job duties consisted of working at great heights while walking on oil covered machinery. Usually while working with overhead cranes. One little slip and fall, or one little mistake by the crane operator meant assured death. I witnessed some of my coworkers die on the job. I still went to work because I had a family to support.

So yes, some of us did intentionally put ourselves into harms way. It was our job.

Don

[MrSlayer]

53. I do the same.

However, you and I are not doing it to benefit the public in general, only for personal gain. That's a major difference.

[NNN0LHI]

58. Listen, I have nothing against police generally

I hang around with some that I really like and respect. And they are liberal. But none of them uses the, "I became a cop to help people.", line any more. I haven't heard that one used in 30 years at least. All the cops I know joined the force because it was a way to earn a living. Same reason we go to the factory every day. No difference.

Now do I think a cop has an easy job and is something I would want to do or even be able to do? No, I would not and could not do it. I would not make a good cop and I know it.

Don

[MindPilot]

41. I eat fish with much more reverence these days

A fisherman, a dockworker and a truck driver all put their life on the line to put that lobster on my plate.


Cops wouldn't face so much supposed danger if they hadn't alienated most of the civilian population by being violent thugs.

If you ever want to know what cops really think about us ordinary folks, all you have to do is go to any of the cop forums and see them creaming their jeans over talking about beating suspects.

[slackmaster]

46. President of the United States is statistically one of the most dangerous jobs in the world

:argh:

[Ilsa]

50. You forgot nurses.

In some hospitals, security is poor. Women nurses have been raped, shot, etc. I've had friends in home health get hurt entering dilapidated homes, etc.

Also, nurses are more likely to have back injuries, pick up communicable diseases that they can't be vaccinated against, etc.

It's a hard job, and sometimes dangerous.

Okay, okay, you are addressing fatalities.

[xmas74]

62. Try mental health.

Always, always understaffed, low pay, long hours. You clock in, wait for someone to become belligerent, hope you say the right thing to keep it from escalating. If you don't find the right thing to say it escalates into violence. And there's not much a person can do nowadays to actually protect themselves except cover their heads and run away.

I saw miscarriages from client attacks. I saw a staff tripped by a client and then almost had his head smashed in by said client. I knew a female staff that had been raped because she had been left alone on a hall with 16 sex offenders and no means to actually defend herself. I was personally put on bedrest during my pregnancy because a client hid behind a door and jumped me, repeatedly kicking and punching me in the stomach.

Mental health can be rewarding but it can also be one of the worst fields. I burned out after a total of ten years in the field and I don't think I can ever do it again. Fatalities, not that many. Life-ruining injuries and diseases? Take your pick.

[Ilsa]

68. Yeah, I saw that sort of thing, not quite as bad, just in nursing

School on clinical rotations. There is no excuse for leaving a nurse alone with sex offenders like that. I hope she sued her employer.

[xmas74]

87. Nope.

The employer was the state of Missouri and there were major budget cuts. She was just an aide and very afraid of losing her job-the only source of income in the house at the time.

I look back at the abuse we took and wonder how any of us did it. Aides, med techs(my position), LPNs-all took large amounts of abuse. I think the reason was because we knew at least we still had jobs.

[slackmaster]

82. I had a girlfriend who was an experienced psych nurse

She told me the first thing you learn on that job is how to duck a punch.

[xmas74]

88. The first thing I learned was to pull my hair up.

(I had nearly waist-length hair at the time.) The second was how to duck a punch and the third is how to never, ever have your back exposed. You always stand or sit with your back against the wall and your eyes on all exits.

They really don't pay enough for that kind of work, yet I sometimes still miss it.

[riderinthestorm]

89. My sister's the director of mental health in a major CA county. MS in psych nursing

and she would second your observations.

She tells an anecdote from her RN school days when she would bring meds out a la Nurse Ratched in "one Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest".... "medication. medication time...." to those sitting outside trying to enjoy the sun....

[xmas74]

92. Med carts!

I think most psych wards have eliminated med carts because of the damage they can do-and the easy access to drugs, no matter how many locks.

I remember having to check if anyone had "cheeked" their meds. Open wide, stick out your tongue, pull your cheeks open. Not fun yet the faces they made!

[riderinthestorm]

96. oh boy, the stories she told! Hideous every one.

She started out as a candystriper in a senior center and has loved all institutionalized med centers from thereon. I'm not sure I agree with her about that but she's made a career of it and her compassion, dedication and 110% immersion mean she's always tried to do the right thing. My world is so different than hers so I have no frame of reference but she's a true Democrat - a hardwired, in the bones Dem. So I trust her in this.

She was the first one I heard ever making BIG complaints about Reagan (and mental health issues) so I tend to glean her opinion when in doubt. She's a boots on the ground, in the trenches type so I know whereof she speaks.

Med carts. I'll have to ask her. She'll probably laugh at my outdated foolery. she's the one who told me the story so I know it's probably true. She described it so vividly - wheeling the cart out to the front veranda, and the folks sitting there.... "medication time...."

[xmas74]

97. Some might still use them

but for insurance purposes, especially in mental health, many were turning to more "med closets". Med closets are easier to keep good locks on, compared to some of the cheap locks on med carts. (All meds had to be under a single lock; "controls" had to be under a double lock.)

We had a number of PICAs in one of my areas. PICAs ingest inedible items such as cigarette butts, dirt, etc. We couldn't have med carts on their halls because they were sneaky and would steal things off the carts when you were giving another individual meds. (Examples include tearing up and eating Dixie cups, cotton balls, wooden tongue depressors, napkins-one even tried to eat a med punch card!) One was very strong and would fight you for whatever he was fixated on. (In his case, it was Milk of Mag-he loved the stuff and would fight for the little prepackaged cups. He'd slurp down the milk of mag and then chew the cup, if you didn't take it immediately.) We had another who was sexually aroused by receiving enemas and would come up with excuses as to why he needed one.

Those are the rather calm stories. Most of the stories I have about that place are wild!

[Mudoria]

51. I would guess the ratio of assholes to "good guys/gals"

is probably about the same in each of those professions as well. You just don't see their violence in the media.

[hifiguy]

55. A lot of cops are self-selected authoritarian

assholes who become cops so they can bully other people. I've been on the receiving end a few times, though I haven't suffered any physical abuse, just verbal abuse and bullying.

In my experience suburban cops are the worst of all - they may go their entire careers without ever pulling a gun, much less shooting anyone or investigating anything more than a burglary, but they are big dick-swingers when hassling teenage beer-drinkers/pot smokers or people who "don't belong" in their area (I was guilty of driving an old, slightly rusty car twice in six weeks in a posh suburb in the Twin Cities, and I was driving to work both times. Car got impounded for six weeks.). Suburban cops generally are the failed jocks who were the biggest bullies in high school.

Oddly enough, I've never had a bad experience with a female cop, though the experience set is small.

[lunatica]

57. I didn't know people shot at the list of people you put up

And I don't know of anyone who claims police work is the only dangerous job there is.

[ThomCat]

63. Very few cops ever actually get shot at.

A lot of vets are coming back who have been in combat though. Do we think that this is a valid excuse for allowing them to ignore laws? Are they allowed to attack people without repercussions here because they were shot at over there?

Every new excuse I hear to somehow justify how uniquely dangerous a cops job is, they're all nonsense. And they all beg the question, so what? Does that danger justify allowing them to ignore the law?

Does anything justify allowing cops to be criminals who get to ignore the law?

I don't think so, and nobody has presented an argument that makes any sense to make me even consider changing my mind.

[Supply Side Jesus]

104. ya, but that is not in there job description

every day when a cop walks out into public, he becomes a target. Plain and simple. everyday.

and for your information, the greatest cause of fatalities among Law Enforcement is traffic accidents. You spend enough time on the road and your number WILL eventually come up. Contrary to the public's CSI's induced vision of police work, it isn't running gun battles on a weekly basis. This whole post is a joke because it never takes into account of the grisly work they do.

When was the last time you had to find brain matter and pieces of a man's head after the top half was blown apart in an industrial accident? When did you last tell a Mother her daughter put a shotgun in her mouth and blew the side of her head out. The last time you had to speak to a father and listen to the story of how his son shoved him to the ground and put a small caliber gun to his temple and end his life? The last time you had a panic stricken family pleading with you to help find their child after they ran away, and you had practically nothing to go off of? Comfort a woman after her husband just beat the shit out of her? Almost get ran over by a semi-truck while trying to assist a motorist whose vehicle broken down? Trying to identify a small girl after she was in a motorcycle wreck and the driver died and you have just a first name? Confront a man with a machete who just threaten to kill a another? Try to convince a person that the Indians are not on her roof in the middle of the night? Ask a little child where their Father touched them? Perform chest compressions on a dying man as a wife looks on, crying, watching, you as you ultimately fail to save him? Kick a door in to arrest the piece of shit who raped that woman all night long while their children slept on the floor. Oh, and of course he was holding his son as he came to you with the gun trained on him. Arrest a mother in front of her crying children because she is staggering drunk, and driving. Watch a dog lay in the road dying after it was hit by a car. See the frustration in people's eyes as they come home and found their house burglarized? An elderly person's embarrassment after they got taken for thousands by some phone scam? Oh, and don't forget dealing with wonderful defense Attorney's dancing on split hairs, anything to say their client could never assault the elderly woman. And the thousands of inane and ridiculous calls in between. Everyday they get to see the worst of humanity on display. The experiences and memories stay with you and they exact their toll.

Until you have done these things, like I have, You won't know shit about being a cop. This ain't farming or fishing.

A cop has to make decisions everyday which effect lives very few people will ever do. They will make bad decision and wrong decisions. And they have to live with them. It doesn't excuse them of being brutal and breaking the laws themselves. But I can tell you, their tolerance for bullshit is very thin.

PS-Look up the suicide rate among Law Enforcement Officers.

[ThomCat]

111. And none of those give you the slightest permission

to ever break the law. Ever.

I don't care how much you think that the dangers and grief of your job are so much worse that ever other job. You signed up for that job. If you can't hack it, get another job.

[Major Hogwash]

113. Poor ThomCat, he thinks he is in charge of ever thing!

"I don't care. I don't care. I don't care."

Try doing it for one day and see how long you last!!

[Dawson Leery]

61. k/r for facts

[Major Hogwash]

69. If this were true, then why does everyone go fishing when they go on vacation.

Obviously there is something wrong with this scheme, because fishing is fun, it's a sport for crying out loud.

Yet, how many times do you call for a fisherman when someone breaks in your house?

Stupid thread.

[ThomWV]

71. No, its not a "stupid thread". What you have given us is a stupid response.

Going fishing while you are on vacation is not engaging in the work of fishing, and the work of fishing, being a commercial fisherman, is an extremely dangerous job.

But that's not the point, the point is your stupid response. What you think is fun has nothing at all about how dangerous various jobs are or the clear fact that many of our police are violent beyond anything that could be reasonably justified. You make light of this with your stupid response. And then that idiotic question of 'how many times do you call a fisherman ...", well how many times do you call a plumber when you have a toothache? None, because that would be stupid. It would also be stupid to call a fisherman when someone breaks into you house - that's why in the entire history of mankind no one has ever done it, yet you feel fine about using it as a comparison.

Like I said, yours is a stupid response.

Oh, and fuck the cops. Not one time in my life has one done me any good and not one time in my life have I talked to an on-duty cop and had it work out for the best. So, once again, fuck the cops.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. If you place 100 chimpanzees in a room with typewriters, how long before Shakespeare is produced?

Probably a really long time.

But I would expect something like this in a few hours.

[Dawson Leery]

83. .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2015084&mesg_id=2022160

[Major Hogwash]

85. Wow . . . he's got problems.

Serious delerious mental problems. Did you see how long his screed was?

[Dawson Leery]

98. He tells the truth.

Enough bellyaching by the cops. They chose the job.

[Major Hogwash]

101. Ha ha ha ha

Yeah, sure he did.
Sure, sure.

[Dawson Leery]

102. The FOP should be broken up.

They are no believers in democracy in any form.

[Major Hogwash]

107. He cracked me up, that's for damned sure.

I've been laughing for the last 2 days about this stupid thread.

:rofl:

[Dawson Leery]

110. Those who wear uniforms and carry guns do NOT

need a union.

[Major Hogwash]

112. Why don't you just change your name to No Unions and get it over with?

Haha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!

[Dawson Leery]

114. .

[Dawson Leery]

115. I support unions for teachers, firefighters, public workers, as

well as for those in the private sector. The exception is those with the power of the state behind them, for they do not need anymore power.

[Major Hogwash]

116. Horse hockey! How do good cops protect themselves from corrupt politicians, especially in tiny towns

They have their union support them.
They just had a police chief here charged with covering up the crimes found out in an 18-month internal investigation.
When the final report was given to the chief, instead of him doing anything to the bad cops, he went after the 3 cops who conducted the internal investigation.
He demoted all 3 of them and threatened to fire them.
The union is what kept them from being dismissed, preventing those charges against the bad cops from being swept under the rug by the chief.
The mayor claimed that he didn't know anything about it, so either the chief didn't forward the final report to the mayor, or the mayor is complicit, or negligent of carrying out his duties of office.
A major lawsuit was filed today in this case, on behalf of the 3 officers who participated in the investigation of wrongdoings committed by other officers in the department.
Not only does their union want a full accounting, they have offered the officers affected by the actions of the chief with resources, both legal and financial.
Whistleblowers have to be protected no matter what the consequences to someone like the police chief's career or the mayor's political future.

[Swede]

80. A coworker originally from Chile had her brother missing at sea for 3 months.

He was a commercial fisherman down there. He is alive and well today.

[minavasht]

95. Who says that they should get a free pass?

BTW, when was the last time a farmer or a fisherman came running when somebody was robbing your place?

[xmas74]

99. Live in a rural area and you'll change your mind about the farmer.

I had a friend whose family had a farm in another state. A neighbor (fellow farmer) kept an eye on the place and called if there were any problems.

One time we all decided, as drunk college kids, to stay the weekend and raid the liquor cabinet. We drove out there in an unfamiliar vehicle and pulled up late at night. Within a matter of minutes we heard a truck pull up. Walking out of the truck was the farmer and his son with their shotguns. They had decided we breaking in to cook meth and planned on taking us all down.

[Supply Side Jesus]

105. No one

it's their typical straw man argument.