Is it OK for the US govt to summarily execute an American citizen without charges and without trial

[Cali_Democrat]

if the US deems them to be a terrorist and an enemy of the United States?

[izquierdista]

1. Other

Apparently so, no matter what we might think.

[TheWraith]

2. Apparently then, we've been "assassinating" fugitives for years.

Any time one of them resisted arrest and the police shot him.

It's frankly ridiculous to pretend that killing a violent fugitive is somehow the same as executing a random person.

[sabrina 1]

13. Awlaqi was here in the US until relatively recently. He was not a fugitive

and was openly living in this country even after what we are now told, were actions he was known to have taken as far back as 2005. Why was he not arrested when it was easy to do so, and tried?

There is simply no excuse for this. There was none when Bush did it, and there is still none, especially when he was right here, easily apprehended.

It's frankly ridiculous for anyone calling themselves a democrat to in any way try to excuse these violations of International and Domestic law.

Were you for Guantanamo when Bush was in power? For incarcerating, not even killing, people with no charges or access to the judicial system.


Or were you, like the rest of us, screaming over those injustices? Were are the formal charges, indictments of this US citizen and the evidence that what the government is saying is true. So far all I am getting is that the Government of Yemen, currently slaughtering its own people on the streets for protesting, says he was wanted by them. Everyone who protests peacefully in Yemen is wanted by them. So, that tells us nothing.

[leeroysphitz]

22. But didn't you see the scary pictures where he was wearing a big beard and a turban?!? n/t

[sabrina 1]

26. Yes, but I'm much more scared when I see this:

Maybe it's just me though. Bearded Muslims don't scare me at all.

[TheWraith]

29. You're complaining that we didn't arrest him before he'd done anything?

Newsflash: he stopped living in the US in 2002. You might want to do some research before you leap up to assure everyone of his innocence because clearly big gubmint always lies. :eyes:

[DirkGently]

35. Oh, the Hellfire missile was ARRESTING him. Of course. He should have put his hands up.

[MineralMan]

3. Other. Can't vote on this. Wrong choice of words.

This was not an execution. Executions are ordered by courts of law. This was a war action. They are very different things. Unrecommended for imprecision of language and attempted confusion of the issue.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. There are a number of different definitions for "execute"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/execute

[MineralMan]

9. Yes, which is why word choices are important.

Your choice was not specific enough, thereby leaving the question open to interpretation. Assassinate would have been a better choice. It's narrower in definition.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. I'm going with summary execution

sorry.

[MineralMan]

12. You needn't be sorry. You can choose whatever words you

wish. I will comment on your choice if I wish. Discussion forums are great.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. "summary execution"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_execution

[MineralMan]

11. Summary execution implies that you have the person in your

custody and kill that person. For example, there is a famous photo of a Vietnamese officer shooting a man through the head. That was a summary execution. Summary executions are generally considered to be illegal, because if you have a person in custody, you can subject them to a trial. Therefore, killing them on the spot is generally prohibited by international law.

Assassination is the word you want for this killing. Often done at a distance, as in this case, it is the killing of someone who is not in your custody.

You can play dictionary games with me as long as you wish. You will not win.

[Scurrilous]

4. Can the U.S. kill an American citizen without charge or conviction?

<snip>

"Is it legal for the federal government to kill a U.S. citizen overseas, someone who has never been charged or convicted of a crime? Civil liberties groups are condemning the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, but many legal scholars say it is fully justified.

No U.S. court has ever weighed in on the question, because judges consider these sorts of issues exclusively matters for the president.

Anwar al-Awlaki's father, Nasser, with the help of the ACLU, sued President Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and CIA Director Leon Panetta a year ago, when it became clear that the U.S. was targeting al-Awlaki. But Judge John Bates threw the case out, ruling that federal courts were in no position to evaluate whether someone was a terrorist whose activities threatened national security and against whom deadly force could be justified.

The ACLU lawyer who handled the case, Jameel Jaffer, said Friday the killing of al-Awlaki was a violation of both U.S. and international law."

<snip>

"But Kenneth Anderson, an international law scholar at American University's Washington College of Law, said U.S. citizens, who take up arms with an enemy force, have been considered legitimate targets through two world wars, even if they are outside what is traditionally considered the battlefield.

"Where hostiles go, there is the possibility of hostilities," Anderson said. "The U.S. has never accepted the proposition that if you leave the active battlefield, suddenly you are no longer targetable."

Robert Chesney, an expert on international law at the University of Texas School of law, concluded in a recently written law review article that al-Awlaki could be legally killed "if he is in fact an operational leader within AQAP, as this role would render him a functional combatant in an organized armed group."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/30/8063515-can-the-us-kill-an-american-citizen-without-charge-or-conviction

[msongs]

5. is it ok to kill your neighbors with a drone attack when they have never been convicted according to

YOUR personal values?

[sad sally]

32. As long as it's in another country that the US is either at or not at war with.

anything anywhere goes in the name of terror and the war on it.

[arcane1]

8. Is it ok of they aren't American?

Life is life, IMO.

[MineralMan]

15. Taking a human life is never "OK." It is, however, sometimes

necessary to protect others. It happens every day, all around the world.

[provis99]

28. Americans don't care if the victims aren't American.

It's hard enough getting them to get worked up over the killing of a Muslim-american, let alone someone who isn't even American.

[Kolesar]

14. If we cannot get close enough to garrot him

maybe

[EFerrari]

16. Make that two Americans. There was another one with him

reported on AJ whose name I get phonetically as Samer Hahn.

[Hosnon]

17. I'm going to respond very narrowly here:

Yes, if there is probable cause that the American citizen committed or is conspiring to commit terrorism and resisted apprehension with deadly force.

[Harmony Blue]

18. I am not okay with it

even if they commit a treasonous act. I have to side with the court of law, and shoulder some belief in our justice system. This operation was an implicit admission that the U.S. administration doesn't believe in the justice system acting in a manner they deem satisfactory.

[Uncle Joe]

19. Hell no, unless you believe political assassination should be the law of the land.

Thanks for the thread, Cali_Democrat.

[ChandlerJr]

20. "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal."

Richard M. Nixon, TV interview with David Frost, May 20, 1977.

Ain't you glad I cleared that up for ya?

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. Do American Top War Criminals count?

Cheney deserves a trial at least before he's hung.

[ChandlerJr]

24. In light of recent events that's really starting to ring hollow.

Just saying.

[saras]

31. No, he doesn't. It may be good for us as a nation to give him one anyways, though.

[TBF]

23. No and many of the trials leave something to be desired as well. nt

[Aerows]

25. No

And I'd prefer my own life not get snuffed out because someone, somewhere decided I committed a wrong-doing without me even getting the chance to defend myself.

[dtexdem]

27. Unrecced for inadequate answer options.

nuff said

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

33. It is now the law of the land so, yeah.

Obama said we could assassinate anyone we want to and no one objected so...here we are.

[MilesColtrane]

34. Only if that person is in the act of trying to kill someone.

Summary execution for planning a crime is unconstitutional.