As you think about the protests in NYC, remember Thoreau.

[MineralMan]

In 1849, he wrote the essay "Civil Disobedience," which is a seminal document in the development of civil disobedience as a strategy for protests of all kinds. Gandhi and Dr. King were both influenced by this essay. It's short, so you can read in in one sitting. I highly recommend doing that, as a means of understanding why the 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge are the very best thing that could happen. Here's a link to a well-annotated copy of the essay:

http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html

Edit to correct the date. Stupid me. I had him writing the essay after WWII. Uff da!

[MineralMan]

1. Kick, because this is important. nt.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Magoo48]

2. Rebel...

The independent actions of a lone rebel must, at some level, be fueled by slightly different motivations than the civil disobedient actions of a group? Thanks for the links.

[EFerrari]

7. When a person commits civil disobedience they become a member of a group.

An active, dissident member.

[H2O Man]

3. Recommended.

Very important.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. The link between Gandhi and Dr King was King's friend Bayard

Rustin, who'd worked with Gandhi prior to his time with King. Rustin was kept under wraps both then and now because, well, because.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

[MineralMan]

6. Yes. He was a big man, but little recognized by most people.

Thanks for posting that link. I've admired Bayard Rustin for many years.

[boston bean]

5. You coming around finally? You were mocking the demonstrations a mere couple of weeks ago. nt

[MineralMan]

9. No, I was not mocking it. I was criticizing it.

There is a difference. Have a great Sunday.

This post is not about me. It is about Henry David Thoreau. Do you have any comments on him?

[boston bean]

11. Since you were criticizing it, why do you feel the arrest os 700 people on the brooklyn bridge

is the best thing that could have happened. I think that is a personal opinion that you hold.

Not that I disagree, but it's pretty much a 180 for you. Welcome aboard.

[MineralMan]

14. I've explained why in several threads. You can find those by

searching DU. Basically, the arrests make this a national news story, and that provides publicity for the protest. Without national media recognition, it might as well not exist. That's why arrests are important to all civil disobedience. No arrests, no effectiveness. Arrests make the whole thing official.

[boston bean]

18. There would be no arrests if it occupy wall street never happened.

So glad to see you are admitting you were wrong!

Welcome aboard!

[Earth_First]

10. Easy there...

If s/he comes around yesterday, today or tomorrow, collectively it's one more voice in an environment dominated by very few...

[boston bean]

13. Yeah, good to have him on board. nt

[MineralMan]

17. I'm always on board for effective activism.

Less so for ineffective activism.

[boston bean]

19. Your criticism was that it was ineffective.

See what I'm talking about here.

You have in your own way admitted you were 100% completely wrong. Takes a big Mineral Man to do that, even if it is in a defensive posture.

Now why don't you write something about how wrong you were about the protest being ineffective.

I would love to read that and kick and recommend it to. Would be a first!

[MineralMan]

21. Please go bother someone else. This post stands on its own.

It is not about me. All of my posts stand on their own. This post is about Henry David Thoreau and how his writing influenced the world. If you have a comment about that, I will respond. If not, you will not get any more replies to your baiting.

[boston bean]

23. "the 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge are the very best thing that could happen"

glad to see you are coming around. because if anyone had taken your advice there never would have been 700 arrests on the brookly bridge yesterday. And as far as I can tell Thoreau didn't write that blurb, you did. So this post was not just about Thoreau, it is about your own personal opinion of how great it the arrests were.

Like I say, Welcome Aboard!!!

[Melinda]

8. Also available as a free d/l for kindle (bundled w/Walden too) on Amazon

Important piece of work... Recommended with a huge kickety :kick:

[MineralMan]

12. Thanks! Its on my Kindle, but from the Gutenberg Project,

which is a great source for ebook owners. I prefer to download public domain stuff from there, rather than from Amazon, for a number of reasons. The wi-fi connection on my Kindle is permanently off. I have the complete works of Thoreau on my Kindle.

http://www.gutenberg.org/

[Melinda]

20. Ooh, ty for the link, MM!!

I didn't know of the Gutenburg Project, and I appreciate your sharing with me!! Off to look now, lol. :hi:

[MineralMan]

22. You'll find so much there! Enjoy.

[fascisthunter]

15. K&R

[EFerrari]

16. Speaking of disobedience, that big troublemaker Mike Moore will be on BookTV

live and taking questions from Noon-3 Eastern. They can be tweeted to @BookTV or emailed: booktv@cspan-org.

[Whats_Happening]

25. You make a good point, and give the protesters their credit, they are moving beyond today's Thoreaus

--

after all, what was Thoreau but a well-educated, upper-middle-class proto-hipster. I'm sure if he was around today, he would also have an expensive camera around his neck, the latest version of the iPad in his hands, and some ridiculous hat with ears on his head, as the original OWS hipsters all seem to have --

but the protesters ARE moving beyond that. I will not blame them; who these days can show up on short notice to protest in NYC these days? You have to be young (to be unconcerned enough to risk the arrest record) and you have to be independently wealthy, meaning, a trustrafarian Williamsburgian hipster. So it is no accident comrade that the L-train crowd were the first ones to show up there --

but give these protests their credit -- they are starting to get real Americans to show up there. I guess it all has to start somewhere (and let me admit, I was pretty damn certain that this younger-generational latte liberal protest would go nowhere. Turns out, perhaps, the art-school grads with fancy cameras were just the catalyst. Good for them, Good for us all!