So Troy Davis gets executed and Amanda Knox gets off...and I'm supposed to be happy?

[BluegrassDem]

I know the cases are entirely different and separate, but can't help to think that if Knox was in Troy Davis's shoe, she would've been let go a long time ago.

It's amazing how some people in this world are granted the benefit of the doubt, and others are presumed guilty until proven otherwise. As long as you're pretty, rich, and yes...white, you get that benefit of the doubt, at least in the media.

Needless to say, I'm not jumping up for joy that Amanda Knox got off. The whole 'angel eyes' routine the US media gave her turned me off. No one is perfect, even if she didn't do it. I never heard the US media say something like that about Troy Davis.

[Brickbat]

1. You're right, everyone should get the benefit of the doubt.

And sometimes, even pretty, rich, white young women are not guilty. In the meantime, we can fight for justice for everyone.

[USA_1]

2. Knox attempted to implicate an innocent black man

She pointed the finger at Patrick Lumumba who sued her and was awarded a judgment for her defamation of his character. Despite all the evidence as reported by BBC, she and her beau got off. The only one found guilty was a black man named Guede.

Isn't strange that an innocent black was unjustly implicated and another found guilty even though the evidence points to others as well. Very strange.

[pnwmom]

14. Something tells me you didn't actually read the statement, did you?

The one in which you claim she pointed the finger at Lumumba. Did you? Because all she said in it, after being kept up by the police all night, was that she "confusedly" remembered being in the kitchen with her hands over her ears, while Patrick was in another room with Meredith -- but that the memory didn't seem real to her. She repeated that a few hours later -- that the memory didn't seem real and that the police shouldn't rely on it.

Why is it strange that an innocent black man was implicated and another found guilty? The police had found a hair (or hairs) that belonged to a black man. Then they found on her cell phone a text to a black man -- the bar owner -- saying "see you later." So they drew the conclusion that this text was Amanda agreeing to meet with the black man to kill Meredith. And they kept her up all night, with tag teams of interrogators, until they broke her and she signed a statement. (The one about being in the kitchen.) She withdrew the statement a few hours later, but the damage was done. The police arrested the black bar owner. He turned out to have a rock-solid alibi, but they still took several weeks to release him -- until the fingerprint and DNA evidence came back clearly implicating a different black man.

There is NO evidence that anyone other than Rudy Guede participated in the murder. He left dozens of pieces of physical evidence in the murder room; Amanda and Raffaele, nothing. And he had been caught just three weeks before, burglarizing a day care center WITH A KNIFE. The police held him and then released him. If they hadn't let him go, Meredith would be alive today.

[redgiant]

26. Obfuscating a nice rant with facts, are we?

What are you, fair-minded or something?

[USA_1]

29. Been Following It On BBC For 4 Years

I watch BBC every week and it has been on this case for all this time. What they have reported and what is being reported now are about as different as night is from day. Therefore, it is very difficult to discuss this trial.

As for Lumumba all we know is that she pointed the finger at an innocent black man and was sued successfully for her defamation. The judgment against her for defamation was upheld. That remains a fact.

[chowder66]

38. Lumumba was her boss

They sent texts to each other, he saying... he didn't need her to come in to work, she said "See You Later. Goodnight" and the prosecutors or police dropped the "goodnight" part of the text and took the "See you later" part literally and started creating a scenario that she was going to meet with him (to do bad deeds?)and that the text was the proof. They continued to interrogate her without an attorney present exhausting her, threatening her with 30 years in prison saying they had proof she was there, etc.

Not able to speak the language fluently was also an issue. This wasn't about Knox pointing the finger at a black man, it was about the police manipulating her into fingering her boss to fit their narrative.

[pnwmom]

53. At first, many outlets merely acted as media mouthpieces for any garbage

Mignini wanted to feed them.

Eventually, the reporting began to change as they began to actually do their jobs.

Yes, Knox isn't perfect. She broke down during an overnight questioning and said she "confusedly remembered" Patrick being at the crime scene.

That doesn't justify what happened to her. That doesn't justify her and Sollecito spending four years in prison. What about Sollecito? What did he do that wasn't up to your perfect standard? (And don't tell me that he placed himself at the cottage, unless you can show me a reliable source. That just isn't true.)

[karynnj]

31. The other found quilty left DNA evidence in her body and elsewhere

and weeks later showed signs of many cuts. You imply that the evidence was equal - it absolutely wasn't. Guede is, without a doubt guilty. You might also note that though the evidence was 100% that he was the rapist his sentence was 16 years to Amanda's 26. I note that you ignore this black man fingering the two white kids, likely to reduce his own sentence. Then, unlike in Lumumba's case, they each spent 4 years in jail and, for some, will likely have this cloud over their heads for the rest of their lives. There really was NO physical evidence that linked the couple - it was discredited.

As to Lumumba, she was wrong to finger him, but you might note the Italian system did not charge him and found her guilty of defaming him.

You could also say that the couple were railroaded based on very little reason. It is clear that you can't emphasize with a 20 year old girl, who was never exposed to anything all that bad, suddenly being in a nightmare of coming home and soon finding her roommate brutally killed. Don't you think it would have been extremely traumatic - both for what it was and for the obvious fact that anyone in that position would realize if it were her home alone, that would have been her fate? Then to be questioned for hours in a language you were just learning without a lawyer, far away from home? Are you sure that you would have handled this better?

The Italian court has found that they really did not have sufficient proof - and that they likely knew the DNA info was extremely weak when they used it in the first trial.

[USA_1]

33. ''coming home and soon finding her roommate brutally killed''

Now contrast that statement with this:

''"The court found her guilty of slander - so why find her guilty of slander? Why did she commit the slander? She said that to save herself from the murder charge. She named Patrick Lumumba to save herself and Sollecito simply followed her. Wherever she goes he goes. ... In the end she eventually named barman Lumumba as the killer saying she vaguely remembered "covering my ears in the kitchen as Patrick murdered Meredith" and as a result of that he was arrested and spent two weeks in jail before being released.''

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23994304-knox-prosecutors-describe-massive-mistake-in-appeal-hearing.do

Prosecutors vow to take Knox case to Supreme Court in Rome

Again, if you have been following this case for the past 4 years as I have (I watch BBC news every week, sometimes as many as 5 nights a week), this is what you would have been hearing all this time: that Knox admitted to being in the apartment at the time of the murder. Her boyfriend is on the record as admitting he was in that apartment at the fateful hour.

For some reason it is not being reported that way by the USA media. But the British and European media have been reporting this for the past four years.

I wasn't there and do not know if any of these facts as reported in the court room have any truth. All I know is what I see on TV on a nightly basis. Unfortunately, none of the USA media summaries in any way square with those reports from Europe. This is why it is so difficult to have an informed discussion on the subject.

[karynnj]

36. I did read both sides

- and I noted that she said things she should not have said. You also ignore that she herself expressed uncertainty even at the beginning when she said that and later wrote a note questioning it.

I do think that you need to try to see how in those 4 critical days, she likely was extremely terrified, horrified by the death, being questioned for hours without a lawyer, alone in a country that probably seemed suddenly more foreign than it had a week before.

I am not condoning her fingering her boss. I am not crediting her with being good or courageous. I would actually hope my own daughters would have the inner strength that even in this terrifying situation they would find strength in simply answering everything as truthfully as possible - and refuse to answer anything that went beyond their certain knowledge. But, I can see that I have never faced anything as traumatic as what she went through.

Just as you say the American media portrayed her as the all American girl, the Italian and especially the British tabloid media portrayed her as incredibly sinister. The truth likely is closer to the American one. It would be hard to manufacture her history as a serious, nice girl over her years in high school and college here - especially in an internet world. If there were something untoward in that period, it would have come out.

I am incredibly impressed by her family's persistence and their love for their daughter.

[USA_1]

37. ''she likely was extremely terrified''

No question about that. But to implicate an innocent black man in a society that is more racist than ours thereby putting his life into jeopardy is unforgivable. After those 4 days were over she could easily have retracted her testimony and have her lawyer inform the court of her lies. Instead, the innocent black man was released only after the police made an investigation and found no credible evidence to back up the false charges against him. Imagine if that was your son or husband knowing that his life was in jeopardy with every passing minute in a jail full of mafiosi thugs enraged over the death of an innocent white girl. Supposed this took place in the USA where police are easily persuaded that a black man (no matter how innocent) is automatically guilty of whatever crime they are charged with and they don't bother to ascertain all the facts. Knox put the life of an innocent person into serious jeopardy - therefore she is not the angel some would have you believe.

[ieoeja]

46. Pay attention to what she actually says.

"I seem to remember..."

That absolutely screams that she is saying what she thinks the police want to hear because they have been verbally torturing her for hours. Heck, I know a career criminal with a lot of experience who was still broken down in this manner into making a false accusation against my brother. And like Knox, he recanted. They just keep coming at people from different directions til they finally hit the, "yeah, sure, whatever it takes to get you to leave me alone," moment.

For that matter, we have seen instances where people were clearly being sarcastic in repeating what the cops wanted to hear, then the cops trying to pass it off as a serious statement until an actual recording surfaced showing the statement for what it was.

[pnwmom]

51. Another translation was "I confusedly remember." nt

[pnwmom]

50. She DID retract her statement -- just a few hours later!

She wrote back saying the memory didn't feel real, and that the police shouldn't rely on anything she'd said about Patrick. And the police very quickly discovered he had a rock solid alibi. It was a police decision to keep him in jail for weeks after they discovered he couldn't have been involved - not Amanda's.

And she did NOT have a lawyer for either of those two statements. They told her things would go much worse for her if she had a lawyer. That was why the Supreme Court said those two statements were inadmissible in her criminal trial.

I'm not saying Amanda's an angel. She's completely human. But you don't put people in prison for four years -- with no real evidence -- because they're not angels.

[pnwmom]

48. I am also impressed by the strength of her whole family.

How those two households (the parents are divorced) came together to support her. Her best friend and even her step-father actually moved to Perugia, in order to be there for her.

[pnwmom]

47. Actually, there have been some European sources who are more responsible

than the tabloids that worked to trash Amanda. The Guardian in the UK is one example. And Oiggi in Italy. I suggest, if you want a more balanced understanding, that you read The Guardian's articles on the case. And certainly avoid the tabloids, especially the Daily Mail.

Apparently, if what you remember is true, the BBC isn't one of those reporting responsibly on the case.

The quote you highlighted above -- without attribution -- comes from the grandstanding ravings of the prosecutor Mignini, who is currently appealing his conviction on prosecutorial abuse in another case (which, like Amanda's case, also involved his theories of Satanic/Masonic/ritual cult murder -- a pet theory of his). He, of course, doesn't mention why Amanda made that statement about Lumumba -- that the police had found text messages on her cell phone to Lumumba, so they were pressing her about him. (They had found hair at the crime scene that appeared to belong to a black man.) They conveniently failed to record their interrogation of her, but she says they insisted they knew Lumumba had been at the cottage with her and Meredith. She finally broke down at 4 in the morning and said she "vaguely remembered" or "confusedly remembered" (depending on the translation) being in the kitchen with her ears covered -- but that the memory didn't feel real. A few hours later, she sent them another note saying that her first memory of being with Raffaele felt more real, and that they shouldn't rely on her statement about Patrick. But they had already arrested him and -- even though he had a rock-solid alibi -- they kept him in jail until all the physical evidence came in linking Rudy Guede to the crime scene. (By the way, both of these statements by Amanda were thrown out by the Supreme Court since she wasn't given an attorney -- so they technically aren't supposed to be part of the case.)

It is completely FALSE that Raffaele "is on record as admitting he was in that apartment at that fateful hour." Did you hear that on the BBC? Raffaele always said he was in his own apartment on the night of the murder. His only mistake, during his long interrogation (with no lawyer) was to concede that WHILE HE WAS SLEEPING he couldn't be entirely sure that Amanda was with him every single minute. So the prosecution made the claim that he didn't support Amanda's alibi. But the prosecution never said that Raffaele put himself in the cottage. If you heard someone say that on BBC, that person was lying.

It isn't so hard to sort out fact from fiction, even if you read from European sources. There are original documents out there, including Amanda's full statements. There are English translations of the Massei report, and English translations of the DNA report by the Court appointed experts from the University of Rome.

The bottom line is: there is no controversy over the fact that -- in the tiny, blood covered murder room -- there was absolutely no physical evidence, not a single trace, of Amanda's presence. And Amanda's clothes contained no DNA from Meredith, and her body showed not a single cut from a knife wound. Yet the prosecutor said that she was the one wielding the knife. This makes absolutely no sense. And it makes no sense that Amanda and Raffaele could have scrubbed all their own DNA and fingerprints from the bloody crime scene, and yet left dozens of pieces of evidence linking Rudy Guede to the murder.

Unless you, like Mignini and Maresca, think she was some kind of witch with magic soap. Then, I suppose, she's capable of anything.

[USA_1]

56. TV Lawyer Nancy Grace

Grace was just now interviewed on TV and said she is convinced Knox got away with murder. But rather than argue back and forth about the case consider this:

http://www.zimbio.com/Meredith+Kercher+trial/articles/11/Murder+Suspect+Amanda+Knox+Raffaele+Sollecito

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Let the facts speak for themselves.

[Fleshdancer]

3. "No one is perfect, even if she didn't do it."

:wtf:

Are we seriously pitting one injustice against another? As if one could somehow cancel out the other? It doesn't work that way. You can't dismiss the hell she went through just because Troy Davis suffered worse under our own system. What's next? Do you dismiss what Troy Davis went through because a gay person was stoned to death in the Middle East?

[pnwmom]

15. Exactly. And you don't sentence someone to life in prison for not being perfect. n/t

[rsmith6621]

4. I'm Jumping For Joy That One Of My Neighbors is Coming Home..

Its to bad some cant get past something that can't be undone. Troy is gone and the only thing we can do is learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again. We all need to petition our lawmakers and pressure them into ending the death penalty,it doesnt work. Amanda was facing basically the same kind of justice a prosecutor who wanted a major conviction and was willing to punish two innocent kids.

The evidence was shoddy as was the handling of it. Italy should be ashamed they did this.

Amanda will return home about 5 miles from me tomorrow night and I will be standing on a sidewalk joyfully welcoming her home.

[midnight]

7. I agree that this case was handled really poorly... and like Troy Davis they

just wanted a scape goat and not justice... I'm very happy that this young women will be home soon...

[LisaM]

10. Are you turning cartwheels?

Just asking. Also, check out what Meredith Kercher's family and friends think about this. Am I saying Amanda Knox is guilty? Innocent? NO. I do think the fact that there is botched evidence does not exonerate her. I'm sorry; I live in Seattle and I find something about her really creepy.

[RZM]

11. Who cares if she's 'really creepy'

I don't plan on hanging out with her.

Just think how many times in history a defendant has been convicted (or accused in the first place) in part because people found them 'really creepy.' I'm guessing a lot.

I don't know if she did it or not, but I do know that however creepy some people find her shouldn't be a factor when determining her guilt or innocence.

[pnwmom]

18. You're right. Creepy feelings are in the heart of the feeler.

They have nothing to do with anyone else's guilt or evidence.

But in this case, the Judges ruled not just that guilt wasn't proven -- but , by an 8 - 0 vote -- that Amanda and Raffaele were actually innocent.

The reasoning behind the judge's declaration has not yet been made public, but I'm guessing that it's because:

there was no physical evidence linking either of them to the murder room (but dozens of pieces of physical evidence linking Rudy Guede, the previously convicted murderer)
there were no witnesses putting them at the crime scene (unless you count active heroin users)
there was no weapon found (the kitchen knife with the starch DNA was too big to have inflicted two of the three wounds and didn't match the blood imprint of a knife on the bed sheet)
there was no motive (which the prosecutor recognized -- and this was his justification for asking for an even longer sentence.

[RZM]

21. I know you've taken the time to examine this case in depth

So I wouldn't bet against your assessments here

:)

[pnwmom]

22. Yeah, the prosecutor sucked me in.

All his claims of Satanic/witch/Masonic/cult/ritual murder were kind of hard to believe -- but made me want to know more. And what I found stunk to high heaven, as my grandfather would have said.

I'm so glad for Amanda and Raffaele and their families that this is finally over.

[pnwmom]

17. There is a reason most civilized countries do not put family members on juries.

They are not in a position to fairly evaluate a defendant's guilt; the Kerchers themselves have demonstrated that they're unable to see through their pain. (And they often would leave the courtroom rather than hear the defense side of proceedings.)

Amanda's the Luciferina with the ice-blue eyes, Satanic, diabolical, the spell-casting witch -- according to the opposing attorneys. No wonder you think she is creepy. That's how the tabloids and the Italian prosecutor has always painted her.

[lynne]

28. I don't understand the Kercher's family response to all this -

- Yes, they've been through a living hell and have forever lost their daughter. However, the evidence doesn't point towards Knox - no reasonable motive was established - and the murderer is in jail, his DNA being found on and in their daughter and his bloody hand print found on her sheet.

You'd think they'd want the actual murderer to do decent time for the crime instead of focusing on jailing a girl when the evidence doesn't point in her direction. IMO, Knox and ex-boyfriend are victims #2 and #3 in this whole mess.

[Blue_Tires]

32. The family in the Troy Davis casehad zero doubt in his guilt

despite all the evidence to the contrary...SOMEONE had to pay in the name of justice, it might as well be him...

[pnwmom]

54. I'm afraid that their might be an unconscious motive here, sadly.

They've won a multi-million euro civil verdict against any convicted murderers. If Guede is the only one convicted in the end, they'll get nothing. But Sollecito has a large inheritance from his mother . . . .

[pnwmom]

16. I am so happy for her, too, and for all her family and friends.

What an ordeal this has been.

[Honeycombe8]

5. One difference: the decedent was male vs female. I've noticed over the years...

that if anyone even THINKS you killed a man, watch out. Particularly if you're female. Even if you're pretty and white.

If the decedent is female, meh...it's important, but not to the same degree. Many men get 25 to 35 years for killing women. Women invariably get life or close to it for killing men.

In these two cases, though, I think the evidence was very different. I don't pretend to know all the evidence of both cases. I wasn't in the court room. But when I read the evidence in the Knox case, I didn't see evidence of guilt. I saw a couple of suspicious things, but that's all. When I read about the evidence in the Troy Davis case, I wasn't sure. He was, after all, standing right there, over the homeless man being beaten, and when the policeman was killed. The difference is that he said it was the OTHER guy who was with him who shot the policeman, not him. That's a huge difference. Then, when he turned himself in, he showed up with an attorney...nothing wrong with that. That was a good move. But he didn't give a statement, and didn't take a polygraph. And there were nine witnesses who said they saw him do it.

Not so with Knox...she spoke with the police a long time, more than once, I believe. I don't know if they wanted a polygraph, or if they take them in Italy, though. There were two witnesses who say they saw her in the area near the time of death...not that they saw her standing in the room of the dead body at the time she was killed. That was a big difference from the Davis case.

Very different cases. Very different evidence, or lack of it.

Having said all that...Casey Anthony. Found not guilty 'cause she's cute and white. That's what I think. The evidence was overwhelming that she was involved in the death of her daughter.

[pnwmom]

19. Actually, the two witnesses couldn't even put Knox at the crime scene.

One of them turned out to be a heroin addict who admitted to using that night; and who got his dates wrong. (He said he saw them on Halloween, but the murder took place the next night.) And the other was a deaf woman who claimed to have heard footsteps -- just footsteps. And she didn't see anyone.

You are right about the long interrogation. It was actually something like 4 and a half days, without an attorney or even an impartial translator (part of the time there was a policewoman there who spoke English.) And Amanda finally broke down about 4 in the morning and signed a statement saying she "confusedly" remembered being in the kitchen with her hands over her ears while the bar owner was in the other room with Meredith. A few hours later, she wrote another note saying that memory didn't feel real to her and it shouldn't be relied on.

[EOTE]

25. You are misinformed about the Troy Davis case.

Of those nine witnesses, 7 of them signed sworn statements recanting their testimony, saying that they were strongly coerced by the police to falsely accuse Davis. Of the two remaining, one is almost definitely the real killer. That in combination with there being absolutely ZERO physical evidence against him strongly leads me to believe he was innocent.

[Honeycombe8]

60. I'm talking about evidence @ the time of trial. I know 7 recanted 15-20 yrs later.

But what I'm saying is, I could see that there was evidence there for a jury to come up with a guilty verdict. Nine witnesses are a lot of witnesses, and he was there at the crime scene, standing next to his acquaintance and the homeless man. It sounded like a pretty tight case, what I read.

Unlike Knox...I was surprised at the verdict, because I hadn't read about any evidence that I would've considered "beyond reasonable doubt."

I'm just saying...I can't see into the hearts and minds of the jurors, but it is quite possible that Davis' race had nothing to do with the conviction, since there was plenty of evidence there. And if they wanted someone, just anyone, they had that other guy (also black) to go after.

[USA_1]

35. Link to study please

In my past readings on the subject, women get far lighter sentences than men across the board. Here is just one study:

http://creativedestruction.wordpress.com/2006/09/12/prison-sentencing-study-whites-women-non-poor-and-us-citizens-are-given-lighter-sentences/

There are others which reach the same conclusion. Bear in mind that I have a law degree and have done a limited amount of work in crime law. The record insofar as I know will show that men get longer prison sentences. But if you have evidence to the contrary, I am willing to review it.

[Whisp]

6. There are so many injustices in the world.

Pinning it to two people in that system just does not resonate for me.

I'm glad Amanda is free, I'm sad Davis had to die.

[MADem]

8. Not AGAIN. How many times must we torture this topic?

Perugia Italy is not Georgia, USA.

Different cases, different circumstances, different legal systems, different victims, different defendants.

What's that "angel eyes" crapola? DNA -- or the lack thereof--got her off. Why do you begrudge her the fact that she overcame prosecutorial misconduct? Do you have an idea in your head that her death would bring Troy Davis back? Come on, that's just clumsy.

If you're against people being punished for crimes they didn't commit, it's an appropriate reason to jump for joy. If you're judge/jury/executioner and don't like Amanda Knox because she's insufficiently sympathetic in your eyes, well....I just don't know what to say.

There is no logic in your post. You can't compare a young woman accused of killing her roommate in their home with a young man accused of killing a cop in a parking lot. You'd have trouble comparing them if the crimes they were accused of committing occurred in the same jurisdictions. One was alleged to be a crime of passion, the other alleged to be the consequence of the cop interrupting an assault.

See the same horse beaten here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2048204

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x630135

[Kennah]

9. Happy that Amanda Knox was freed, deeply saddened that Troy Davis was executed

Completely different cases, completely different circumstances, and completely different legal systems.

I can feel joy over one and sorrow over the other.

[autorank]

12. Here's the difference

The Italian judicial system has actual appeals, they search for the truth. There was a second jury and trial on this
case. The judge granted independent review of the Knox DNA and other evidence. Guess what? It was found to be a load of
b.s. -- 61 major errors including confirmation that the DNA claimed to belong to Knox did not belong to her. So the
appeals court did the right thing and overturned the case.

Troy Johnson? Here, the legal system defenders are quick to say that the process is ot a search for the truth. Well, it
is in Italy, why not here? The appeals courts are stuffed with neocon, right wing, Federalist Society trained jurists
who never miss a chance to confirm a death penalty

That's the difference.

[pnwmom]

20. I'm not so sure the Italian system is better, EXCEPT for not having the death penalty.

Half of their initial convictions get over-turned. They're willing to live with an awful high error rate, it seems to me. Convict first, ask questions later!

[pnwmom]

13. What happened to Troy Davis was a travesty of justice and something we should be ashamed about.

But the cases are unrelated.

We can still be happy that another pair of innocent young people have been freed. And Amanda's appearance, IMHO, did nothing to help her get the benefit of the doubt. She was accused in Italy of having icy-cold blue eyes -- devil eyes. Just yesterday, I read someone saying that she looked guilty in photographs because her eyes were deep set and her pupils could be seen to shrink in the light!

[Rincewind]

23. The two cases

are not in any way related. This makes as much sense as saying " Amanda Knox was released, and my cat died, am I supposed to be happy?"

[pampango]

24. Juan Cole: Amanda Knox and Troy Davis

http://www.juancole.com/2011/10/amanda-knox-and-troy-davis.html

Amanda Knox and Troy Davis

The overturning of the conviction for murder of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito by an Italian court on Monday contrasts with the fate of Troy Davis.

In both cases, a conviction was built on shoddy evidence. In both cases, during the appeal the weakness of the case became apparent. But in the US, the verdict was allowed to stand. If Amanda Knox had been in Georgia’s legal system, she would probably be dead instead of on an airplane home.

Would it help for appeals in the US, like those in Italy, to have a jury? That step might counter-act the natural instinct of any court to preserve its authority by resisting a charge of having made a major error. The Italian system often modifies the original judgment on appeal, which seems to me a virtue. Would it help if attorneys could serve on the appeal juries, as in Italy?

Would it help for the United States, like Italy, to abolish the death penalty? That is obvious. But it won’t happen as long as a significant part of the country actually cheers executions (the part that otherwise claims ad nauseam to be ‘pro-life.’)

[Kahuna]

27. I'm sad for Troy and happy for Amanda. I don't see what one has

to do with the other. I think that to connect the two cases is..er...disingenuous.

[Bake]

30. We need to seek justice for ALL, one case at a time.

Leaving an innocent young woman in prison doesn't "balance the scales" for Troy Davis, unless you're a racist.

I am shocked at all the "who gives a shit, she's just a pretty white girl" attitudes around here.

Apparently you don't have a daughter.

Bake

[chowder66]

45. Thank you for saying that...

It's as though being attractive or female is something a person can control. Damn them for not doing something about their genes.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and really who gives a shit about what someone looks like in any of these cases?


The focus on looks is beyond me.


Now for a little rant not directed at you Bake but at those who constantly bring up this crap;

It should be about the justice system, failures and successes in regard to trials covered by the media.


I'm for any coverage about any person who is a victim of a crime. That includes people born cute and white along with every other level of looks, gender and ethnicity.

Dr. Conrad Murray; not a cute white girl
Jarred Loughner? not a cute white girl
How about Steven Hayes and his buddy in the Connecticut family murders; not cute white girls
How about The Grim Sleeper; not a cute white girl - though he did take pictures of hundreds of women
West Memphis kids getting released; not cute white girls nor was the victim of the crime they were accused of.

These are not all about cute white girls although some could argue it I'm sure. How? is beyond me.

I cannot add Mitrice Richardson, why? She was covered in the news but there has been no trial because they don't know who murdered her. You could make an arguement that there is not coverage of the suit against the police but it probably is not the kind of thing that is televised anyway.


These type of things do not get covered further because of reasons like; no suspect, lawsuit only but no criminal trial, open and shut cases, etc.

Someone needs to get over their issues with cute white girls. They didn't ask to be attractive to others in this world. They also didn't get to check a box to choose being born female. Instead of bemoaning "another cute white girl" ...those that have an issue just need to state that they wish there was coverage AS WELL of "insert the trial of interest here".

If the media covers it, good, if they cover all kinds of cases. Better. And yes, there is a need to make sure that not just one type of person gets the only coverage.... but there is NO need to diminish coverage for those getting it, unless of course they don't want the coverage and can do anything about it which they really can't. There are victims in these cases, not just criminals and visa versa. The population consists of some cute white girls around the world. Some cute white girls are victims and even at times criminals. Some will get covered. Some will not. But stop with the personal issues revolving around the looks of the victim or criminal. That is not something they control.

argh

[pnwmom]

52. And being considered so attractive is what got her into trouble

with the prosecutor in the first place. Some frumpy forty year old wouldn't have been turned into this "angel face with the soul of a Luciferina."

[chowder66]

57. While that may be true

he's pretty much a nutbag satanic ritual accusing zealot... which he probably was before Amanda Knox was out of diapers.

He's really REALLY into witch hunts. CreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEE..PEE!

[DainBramaged]

34. Bias, it manifests itself in strange ways....

The whole 'angel eyes' routine the US media gave her turned me off


:eyes:

[pnwmom]

42. It was the prosecutor and the Italian and British press who started that "routine."

They were the ones who followed the line of the prosecutor, that she was an angel on the outside, and a Luciferina on the inside.

[EOTE]

39. The Holocaust happened and Amanda Knox gets off... and we're supposed to be happy?

Millions of people killed in such horrendous ways and we're supposed to rejoice that one measly person doesn't have to spend the rest of her life in prison? I better not catch anyone enjoying themselves or being happy for so long as they live. Otherwise, they're making light of the Holocaust.

[pnwmom]

43. Yup. People are happy for plenty of worse reasons.

Like for their favorite team winning the play-offs.

[B Calm]

40. It's a good sign she got off considering Italy has a fascist government

[Warren DeMontague]

41. "even if she didn't do it"... if she didn't do it, she shouldn't be convicted of it.

Whether or not you like her or her attitude or her clothes is irrelevant.

It's really pretty fucking simple. Jesus.

[pnwmom]

44. She was NOT granted the benefit of the doubt. She was falsely put into prison for four years

on the basis of no valid evidence.

The British and the Italian press, along with the prosecutor, attacked her BECAUSE she was considered pretty and privileged. They said she had an angel face and the heart of a devil. Do you really think that worked to her advantage?

If she had been some average looking Italian 40 year old, she never would have been arrested. There would have been no case built around her supposed ability to enchant two men into killing her roommate.

[JustAnotherGen]

49. In reading all the responses

Those that relate to Amanda Knox -

It's the Kercher case folks. Her name was Meredith Kercher. She was bright, brilliant, fun, kind, a sister, a daughter, a friend to someone. She was left to die in a pool of her own blood.

Knox guilty or not -

I have faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more sympathy and empathy for the young woman that died in a pool of her own blood then any of the yahoos and yo yos implicated/convicted/overturned etc. etc. in this spectacle.

It's the Kercher Case - and SHE is the one this is all about.

[pnwmom]

55. Wrong. It's not the Kercher case. It was the appeal trial

for Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

No, they didn't suffer the same horrible fate that Meredith did, but they have suffered -- four years in prison for a crime they didn't commit.

There is nothing that could be done to stop Meredith's suffering. It ended, tragically, four years ago. But Amanda's and Raffaele's suffering was ongoing, and demanded justice. Fortunately, justice did prevail.

[GoneOffShore]

59. Thank you for your post

Amanda Knox - guilty and free

Troy Davis - not guilty and dead

Meredith Kercher - innocent and dead

[Liquorice]

58. So what about the West Memphis Three being released? Or do you just have

some particular problem with Amanda Knox? It sounds like you might have some issues with white women, IMO. :scared:

Oh, and she didn't do it.

[Grabo]

62. I don't see

how anybody could look at the evidence and the history of the prosecutor in this case and not have reasonable doubt.

It's not if you like the way the media portrays her

It's not if you think somebody else in a separate case wasn't given a fair trial

It's not if you think she got off because of the color of her skin or how pretty she is

It's if she committed the crime. The evidence isn't there that supports that she killed Meredith.

[Liquorice]

63. Yes it is absurd. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that she

had anything to do with it, AND there is overwhelming evidence that Rudy Guede did do it.

[Lucian]

61. She's a well-off attractive white woman.

Those types always get off.