Missing 10 month old in KC (Updated from news report)

[xmas74]

Mother says they haven't refused to cooperate but that she did have a polygraph. She said that she was kept at the station for 11 hours, constantly asked about what she did to the baby. She also says that they've tried to keep her and her husband separated, trying to get them to blame each other.

Info comes from KMBC, showing clips of upcoming interview with Robin Roberts on Good Morning America. (No links up yet-probably not until show airs.) Jana Corrie on KMBC said that parents said that they want to cooperate but felt that some of the questions and the length of time was just too much.

I don't know what to think.

[seabeyond]

1. polly and smart, they could be innocent. so many others, almost always the parents

we don't know.

thanks for the update

[xmas74]

4. Dad acts strange.

Then again, if my kid had been abducted and the police were attempting to separate and divide me and my spouse I'd be a bit uncooperative too.

I'm still hoping the parents had nothing to do with it. They say they are cooperative, no matter what the police say, but that they needed a break from the interrogations. They said something about needing to be with their other children, which I can understand.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. sadly, statistically, that's true.

Suspicion is ALWAYS going to fall on parents/relatives/people close by because that's usually who turns out to be involved.

[JI7]

128. but didn't the parents fully cooperate in those cases ?

and they didn't complain about being accused or anything like that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I'm still not convinced the parents are involved.

I think they are distraught and the cops pressured them to the point they cracked.

It has to be just horrific to go through something like this.

[xmas74]

5. I'm not convinced of it either.

Channel 9's been on top of this. They've pointed out how the mother was questioned for eleven hours and how the family says they need to be with their other children right now, not just answering nonstop police questions.

We both know it wouldn't be the first time KCPD screwed something up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Yes KCPD can be heavy handed

But the suburban cops are much worse. I was actually glad to see this family lived in KCMO.

[xmas74]

50. True.

This isn't exactly a beacon of efficiency in our area. I remember dispatching further out of the area for a traffic stop. There was a warrant for the driver-rape charge. We sent numerous messages to KCPD and called them a few times. We had to let the subject go because they refuse to confirm the warrant; instead they decided to put us on hold.

After that night I had zero respect for KCPD.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. DH's car was stolen in KCMO

Three days later the cops in North Kansas City called to ask us when we were going to come get the car. They had found it abandoned the day it was stolen and were still waiting for KCMO cops to show up and process the car for fingerprints, etc. They finally got tired of waiting and called us asking us to come get the car.

Also, witnesses identified the car thieves and gave statements to the cops but no one was ever arrested.

[xmas74]

86. Why am I not surprised at all?

I also remember having alerts on vehicles that were never cleared. When a vehicle is repossessed the company is supposed to file a report with the local PD. When a person gets the car out of hock the report is supposed to be removed; otherwise it shows up as an alerted vehicle (possibly stolen).

We used to pull over stolen vehicles at least once a week that were actually vehicles that had been repo'ed the year before but never removed from the computer. Those poor people were put through a nightmare, since they would assign it as a stolen vehicle.

How KCPD isn't in court on a daily basis over lawsuits against them I'll never know.

[WolverineDG]

15. It's just like when my cousin's husband died suddenly at home

family members swooped in & helped her clean the house (she's disabled), then the next day, the cops show up & start interrogating everyone & suggesting she killed him because she's acting "all weird" & the place is getting cleaned up! :wtf: she had been married to her husband for almost 50 years, she's in a freakin' wheelchair FFS! Of course she was "acting all weird." It's called "grief!"

Oy.

dg

[Blue_Tires]

16. But you have to admit the story as we know it so far doesn't make a lot of sense

And there can only be so many jealous co-workers/relatives/neighbors who wanted a baby for themselves...There should have been a very short and obvious suspect list from the start

[Pithlet]

There can only be so many. But it only takes one. n/t

[DrDan]

3. history seems to suggest that diligent questioning of the parents is warranted

A 10-month old child should be the issue right now, not whether the parents feel they are being unfairly treated. That issue can be dealt with later.

[xmas74]

6. Yes but

I can understand why they'd be upset, especially when they made the comments about needing to be with their other children too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Remember that baby in Florida?

Was she ever found? The cops were eventually investigated in that case.

I had a hard time finding any recent info on the case. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0103/07/lkl.00.html

[xmas74]

52. I don't know if she was ever found.

For anyone who says that complete strangers don't sneak into homes and steal kids I have a name for you: Polly Klaas. He broke in during a slumber party and held them at knifepoint.

It's extremely rare but no one can say that it's never happened.

[tammywammy]

62. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children - No

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=840605&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

[DrDan]

9. I am sure their other children did need them - but

these first few days are so important to a missing child investigation. They absolutely need to cooperate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. The parents claim they ARE cooperating

Just saw on the local news the cops are now claiming the mom failed a polygraph. But yesterday the cops claimed she had passed a polygraph.

Which is it? How many polygraphs did they give her?

There are just too many questions, and knowing the cops here, I still don't suspect the parents.

[ejpoeta]

11. maybe she passed it but they told her she didn't. i wouldn't put it past the police.

i don't know that particular pd, but i do know police are allowed to lie to you. And there is areason lie detector tests are not admissible in court.... people act like they are somehow actually a reliable indicator of guilt of innocence even though someone under a lot of stress could fail it and some know how to pass it... I place no credence in whether a lie detector was passed or failed.

[Uben]

13. I would never take a polyghraph under any circumstances

I had a good friend that spent 6 months in jail after failing a polygraph regarding an armed robbery. HE had no criminal record, a great job, and was accused of taking less than $200 from a convenience store. Fortunately for him, the guy who DID rob the store was caught robbing another store, and admitted to robbing the one my friend was accused of. My friend was a victim of circumstance...in the wrong place at the wrong time. That told me that polygraphs are not reliable at all, and I wouldn't place my fate in one.

[ejpoeta]

14. i agree. but here's how it works. you don't take the polygraph, what are you hiding.

So you are guilty because you aren't cooperating. Don't you want to find your baby? You take it and fail it because you are under stress and you are guilty because you failed an unreliable test. You refuse to talk to them without a lawyer because you know what will happen, and then you lawyered up... what are you hiding? you apparently don't want to find your kid! what have you done to your kid. You try to be cooperative and they try to get you to admit to something. I hope to god they are looking for this kid and not just assuming the parents did something to her. True, there have been cases of this, but to just assume the parents did something because they 'act wrong' or something is crap. True cops can get a sense of these things, but you get jaded cops and that clouds any instincts they might have had.

[Uben]

21. If they worked, it would be okay....

...but I have seen first hand that they aren't reliable.

[Pithlet]

20. I agree.

I have no idea if these parents are involved, but that detail alone tells us nothing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. The mom is now saying the cops held her for 11 hours and repeatedly accused her

of hurting her baby. And she says that's just not true.

[xmas74]

51. I've heard more than one version too.

I heard yesterday that she had passed but this morning she failed. They also said that they were more than willing to cooperate but just wanted a break from 11 hours of questioning. Today the KCPD claimed that they are not cooperating. And now they're in JoCo KS searching landfills, yet there's another story about surveillance film in California.

I don't know who to believe.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Saw Mom's aunt on the news at 6:00

She said Mom did fail the polygraph but it was after over 10 hours of questioning. Aunt said she doesn't believe Mom or Dad are guilty, that this was indeed a stranger abduction and the cops have treated the parents just horribly.

Dad said after 11 hours at the police station where the cops repeatedly lied to him and Mom - telling each that the other had confessed - he asked to go home because he was worn out. When he got home, he turned on his TV to hear the police announce he and Mom were refusing to cooperate.

Landfill search turned up nothing.

[xmas74]

70. No love for KCPD.

We know how they treat others. I'm not surprised that they are doing any of this. And I'm not surprised about the landfill.

Watch the surveillance film that they have practically dismissed be the lead they are looking for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. What surveillance film?

[xmas74]

75. I heard that in passing on Channel 9.

All the attention early this afternoon was about the landfill and they threw on, as an afterthought "Police are also looking at surveillance film from California." That's all they said. They spent five minutes on the dump and less than ten seconds talking about the film.

I'll see if I can find another mention of it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Film of what??

This story just gets more and more bizarre.

[xmas74]

77. I don't know.

All they said was surveillance film in California and nothing about what was on it.

I didn't mishear it either-two other adults were in the room and heard the same thing, as did a coworker who called me at home and asked if I knew about the film.

Maybe one of the tips was for California? And is that the state of California or California, MO?

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Whatever happened to the report of the sighting in St Joe?

Haven't heard anything about that since Tuesday.

[xmas74]

79. Neither have I.

They seem to focus on the mother more than anything else.

[CreekDog]

37. i don't understand why someone should submit to a lie detector test

assuming she's innocent, why should she waste time taking a lie detector test. it seems like it's designed to simply help the police accuse her of being involved.

from the parents perspective, if they both aren't involved, why should they waste a bunch of time letting the police figure out if they want to accuse the parents of a crime than of finding their child?

:child:

[Pithlet]

40. I agree. But I guess quite a few on DU will assume I'm guilty if anything ever happens to my kid.

Because I'm telling you right now I'll never submit to one of those.

[Xithras]

67. No innocent person should ever, ever, ever submit to a polygraph.

The "official" numbers put out by the government and polygraph supporters claim that they are 90% accurate. Studies done by independent psychiatrists and researchers put it at about 60%. Even then, the accuracy is heavily dependent on the way the questions are worded and the personal opinions of the person administering the test.

Using the government numbers:
Presuming you're 100% innocent, there is a 1 in 10 chance that you will fail it anyway. 1 in 10 may not sound like much, but if you set up a casino with those odds you'd have people lining up for miles to get in. 1 in 10 are pretty good odds, and no sane person should ever gamble their life and freedom on numbers that high. It's like playing Russian Roulette with a 10-round revolver. Sure, only one cylinder holds a bullet, but would YOU bet your life on the 90% odds that nothing would happen? Once you fail the polygraph, additional police investigations will largely cease and you will become the prime suspect. Your reputation will be ruined, and guilt will be assumed by the general public. The police and prosecutors will assume your guilt and do everything possible to string together a case against you. Even if you dodge the prosecution, it will still be widely known that you failed the polygraph, and will be under suspicion for the rest of your life.

And if you pass? Police investigators know full well that polygraphs are untrustworthy, and will NEVER exclude a person from investigation merely because they passed a polygraph. You will remain a suspect, and if no additional leads turn up may still find yourself the target of a prosecution witch hunt.

So, to put it simply: Taking a polygraph offers innocent suspects no benefit, plays Russian Roulette with their reputation, and in fact INCREASES the odds that they will be unfairly prosecuted for a crime they did not commit.

[CreekDog]

73. +1

thanks.

[xmas74]

53. They claim to be cooperating

but that eleven hours of questioning, asking the same thing over and over about where the baby was and who killed her was getting nowhere. I don't blame them for stopping for the night.

KCPD isn't exactly a bastion of morals, nor is it a have of fantastic investigation. They'll blame whoever is standing next to them, if it closes the case.

[yella_dawg]

38. Great!

Finally someone who can possibly explain this to me!


Why is the ten month old so wildly more valuable than the adult? Your attitude appears to be "screw the adults, only the child counts". I see this everywhere, though less frequently than in the past. Honestly. Why did I turn to shit on my 18th birthday?

I find the entire attitude astonishing.

[DrDan]

44. where in the world did I ever say that?

I find your leap in logic astonishing.

It just so happens that a 10-month old is at the heart of this case.

[elfin]

12. The mother had real tears

Unlike other cases, where they just look like they are crying. Can't remember if Dad had real tears as well. But could also mean true remorse for a punishment that inadvertently caused a death.

[xmas74]

54. The dad looked like he was in shock.

He looked like he's not ready to face what's happening.

[cbdo2007]

17. There has to be other evidence to suspect other people....

I'm guessing lack of evidence pointing to anyone else is why the focus on the parents. I think the mom seems genuine but the dad seems really shifty and his story is the weird one. The mom put the kid to bed, that's not weird....it doesn't get weird until the dad comes home to find her missing.

Rumor is that they stopped cooperating with the police after the woman took the polygraph and failed, then they wanted the dad to take one and he refused and that's when they left.

[distantearlywarning]

18. Jaycee Dugard.

Her step-dad was harassed by the cops and the media endlessly, to the point where pretty much everybody believed he did it. It screwed up his life for years.

The cops aren't always right about these things.

[cbdo2007]

19. The cops are right MOST of the time about these things.

Especially in this case where there isn't any other evidence.

[tuckessee]

23. Yeah, like 50.1% "most of the time" right. n/t

[cbdo2007]

25. So....you think 49.9% of criminals are wrongly prosecuted?!?! hahahahaha

I LOVE DU!!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

82. So..... you think every person the police suspected at one time or another gets charged?

hahahaha

I love conservatives!!!

[Bladian]

93. Very black and white of you.

Hahahaha.

I love how conservatives only see things in black and white!


Sucks, huh.

[hamsterjill]

22. Do the parents have counsel?

If you "lawyer up", you look guilty. But if you don't, you can be in some real hot water, too.

It has become too commonplace in this day and age to blame the parents immediately - normally in a very public forum. Look at the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Do parents do terrible things? Yes, sometimes they do.

But there need to be some limits placed on how parents can be treated when a child has been abducted. I don't believe it is appropriate for the police to lie to the mother about failing the polygraph IF that's what the police are doing. I don't believe the police should be releasing information to the media during an investigation (i.e., saying that the parents are no longer cooperating).

Rather than looking as this from the standpoint that "there are no other suspects", I would hope that the police are investigating based on "evidence they might have against the parents".

[cbdo2007]

26. Apparently there is no evidence either way.

The problem with this is that if it were a real break in there would probably be SOME evidence, but if there is no evidence then it is only rational to investigate the people we know were there and were the last ones to see her.

[ohheckyeah]

141. I love how they use the term cooperate...

in other words submit yourself to whatever the cops want to throw at you. I hope they lawyered up. They should never have talked to the cops for 11 hours without one. Everyone assumes they are guilty anyway so they should be protecting themselves.

[leftyladyfrommo]

24. I'm in KC and the whole thing is strange.

The theif supposedly stole 3 cellphones and a baby. And then completely vanished.

Baby had a cold but no one checked on her all night-from 10 something when she went to bed until 4 AM when father got home.

This whole deal is just too weird for words. The police are trying desparately to find that baby. It's been over 48 hours now and they have absolutely nothing to go on. They searched 300 houses yesterday plus the whole neighborhood.

I live not too far from all of this. It's an older, not very affluent area.

Everyone here is upset and no one knows what to think.

[cbdo2007]

27. the mom said they went through their normal bedtime routine and she

had her in bed at 10:30 like usual (after a bath and snack and book) - who puts a baby to bed at 10:30 as part of their routine?? Babies are usually in bed by 8:00.

The whole thing is very weird and the parent's explanation doesn't make any sense.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. Mom flunked the polygraph test

I just read that everyone else has been cleared - she was home alone when this happened. She is kind of the only thing they have to go on.

[Blue_Tires]

29. So as I suspected yesterday

There was probably a 'tragic accident' (maybe or may not be intentional) and she disposed of the body...

The missing cell phones is *just* the type of phony red herring you'd expect to prove it was some outside person...

[leftyladyfrommo]

30. It's always possible. Baby was sick. She got overwhelmed.

But might not be, either. Remember the other cases like this where a stranger really did just walk in and kidnap a child? It happens.

Someone saw a man with a baby and a diaper bag sometime around 1 in the morning. Maybe. You have to wonder about that.

[Blue_Tires]

31. We'll see...

As I understand the "official" story, a person came in through the window, snatched the kid and the phones, turned on the lights and left through the front door (the father said the lights were on, window open and door unlocked when he returned from work)...

Only TWO kinds of people would have taken a baby: 1. The jealous psycho co-worker/relative/neighbor who wants one of her own, and 2. The bottom-of-the-barrel, strung-out meth/crack tweeker looking for valuables who is so far gone he thinks he can trade the baby and phones for his next high...

If it's #1, then there is a very limited list of women in the parent's social circle insane enough to do this, so police should have made an arrest rather easily...If it's #2, then that person is certainly dumb enough to leave a brightly colored trail of evidence...

[Pithlet]

32. Only two. There's absolutely no possibility of a 3rd?

I don't think so. Not saying the parents are innocent. Just saying it's not impossible.

[Blue_Tires]

36. That was under the assumption that there WAS an outside person

And everything in the 'official' story really is true...I've personally suspected the parents from the start...

[Pithlet]

39. Right. Working under that assumption, why only 2. No possibility of a third type?

It's quite obvious what your suspicions are.

[Blue_Tires]

47. Not saying it's impossible

Those are the two most likely types I could think of...

[FlaGranny]

100. What about

a stranger in a store seeing the baby and wanting a baby of her own, following the mother and child home, surveilling the home for a while to learn the routine and then breaking in and stealing the baby. Some unstable women who desperately want a child go to extreme measures to get one.

[xmas74]

106. Or seeing the mother with the baby and her two school age

sons and deciding that she didn't need a baby since she already had other children?

It's not beyond the realm.

[Politicalboi]

99. But why steal a cell phone

When they can be traced and tracked? I haven't kept up on this story, but at least they didn't wait 30 days (Casey Anthony) to call the police. Still can't believe that one got a way with it.

[cbdo2007]

101. The Dad here told the media, "They took the cell phones so we couldn't call the police."

Interesting how he is providing explanations on what the criminals did. Wonder why he didn't have an explanation for why the kidnappers left the lights on???

[xmas74]

110. He didn't actually say that.

What he said was that the cell phones were missing so they couldn't call immediately. He said that they had to use a neighbor's phone.

I remember the original press conference. This is huge news locally. He never provided an explanation for the criminals.

[cbdo2007]

118. He said, "They took all our phones so we couldn't call anybody."

here is the vid and it's at 2:57:

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29404237/detail.html

Then he also offers an explanation for why the boys didn't hear anything, "They're pretty heavy sleepers."

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Yesterday the cops claimed she passed it

Cops also claimed family is no longer cooperating while the family says yes they are.

It's become a big he said / she said story.

[Lyric]

43. No she didn't. The cops *told* her she failed to try and get her to admit something.

It's an interrogation tactic. You're not allowed to lie to them, but I assure you, they ARE allowed to lie to you.

[sabrina 1]

120. Weren't the other children there also?

She put the baby to bed, presumably the other children were in bed by the time the father got home. He said the door was unlocked when he got home. He went in to see the baby and she was not there.

The phones were missing, presumed by the mom to have been taken to delay calling the police. Can't you trace cell phones? i have read stories of thieves being found because they took a cell phone and the police were able to trace it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. When Dad works nights you do

My DH worked till 3am and I worked days so I kept my babies up till I went to bed so they would sleep later for their dad.

[Lyric]

42. My baby went to bed at 10:30.

That was his natural sleepytime. It's really not that uncommon.

[Horse with no Name]

45. I will have to disagree here

Perhaps their normal routine centered around the Dad who got home at 4:30 am?

Perhaps he does a feeding when he gets home to give the Mom a chance to sleep in?

In this day and time, I don't presume that anyone's routines are normal or abnormal because NOT everyone works 8-5.

[DrDan]

46. 10:30???? that's crazy for a 10-month old

[Pithlet]

49. Until kids are school aged, an unusual bed time isn't that big of a deal.

Especially babies. It's not like they have to be up early the next morning. As long as they're napping and getting enough sleep, when they go to bed isn't important.

[xmas74]

56. My baby went to bed very late.

I worked until midnight so she was up later in the evening, woke back up when I picked her up from the babysitter, slept in late, and napped late in the afternoon. She adjusted to household hours until she began preschool.

[Number23]

57. 10:30 for a freaking 10 month old??!

That's at LEAST three hours too late. That child was probably exhausted every single day of her life. I'm not in any way insinuating that just because a parent is negligent or trifling that she would hurt her child in any way, but who in their right mind would let a baby that young stay up so late?

My 1 year old is lights out by 7. My five year old goes to bed at 7:30!! And there are days that if I could get her to go down sooner, I would!

Edit: Just saw the other responses to your post. Wow. To each his own, I guess.

[xmas74]

69. In my case, there was no choice.

I had to work that shift (until midnight). I'm a single parent, always have been. She would wake up when I picked her up from the babysitter so I learned to adjust her bedtime and her nap times to make them work on a better schedule. She has always had plenty of sleep-that's never been a problem.

It is a personal choice but in my case it was the only choice. My kid would wake up when I picked her up then fall back asleep on the half hour drive home. She'd wake up the moment we walked in the door. Late hours but she preferred them.

[Number23]

81. Perfectly understandable in your case

[Mariana]

74. Don't assume a baby who stays up late also gets up early.

Mine went to bed late and slept late in the morning. If the kid is getting enough sleep (she was) and it works with the adults' schedules (it did) then what's the problem? If something ain't broke, it's foolish to try to fix it.

[Number23]

80. I'm sure it was a joy when your baby started childcare/school!

If they were used to staying up late and sleeping late. I never had that luxury. Had to work.

[Mariana]

103. Working second shift is not exactly a "luxury"

but it does tend to lead to staying up late and sleeping late in the morning. It was a GOOD thing for everyone in the family, including the baby, that the baby did the same. Changing it up later on was not difficult at all and I can't imagine why you think it would have been.

[rebecca_herman]

83. as long as the baby sleeps enough hours, the bedtime doesn't matter so much

Young children typically go to bed early because they require a certain number of hours of sleep and need to be up at a certain time to go to daycare or school. If the child does not need to be awake at a certain time, sleeps well with this schedule, and gets the required hours of sleep, then I see nothing wrong with a baby going to sleep later than average and then waking up later than average.

[Number23]

84. Thanks for the "advice"

I'll take and did take the advice of my obstetricians and pediatricians. And they have said that children that age need to be getting anywhere from 12-15 hours of sleep A DAY. That includes 2-4 hours of sleep during the day as well.

So, if you are putting your kid to sleep at 10:30 at night, they need to be waking up at around 10:30 AM. Plus 2-4 hours of sleep during the day. If you can somehow manage to do that, more power to you!

I personally have no interest in putting myself or my kid(s) through that. I enjoy having a bit of quiet time to myself at the end of the day or with my husband. Not putting children to bed until late at night sounds like a fast way to Crazytown unless you have no choice as the OP has mentioned was her situation. The very idea of chasing kids at 10, 11 o'clock at night sounds like my personal definition of Hell.

[Number23]

88. I'm so mystified by all of the responses saying "kids can go to sleep whenever"

that I looked on webmd to see what they thought.

According to webmd, as a general guideline, a 10 month old should be getting up to 15 hours of sleep a day. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children This is exactly what my doctors told me when I was pregnant with my babies.

If you can put your kid down late and still allow them to get the sleep that they need, then as I said, more power to you. But I'm starting to understand why I see so many whiny, fussy babies whenever I go out to the shops. :)

[Pithlet]

92. And wouldn't you know it? There are more than 15 hours in a day!

You know, my babies went down early, too. But not everyone's schedule is the same. So glad my kids are older now. I hated the judginess. And it seemed the worst during the baby phase. Won't miss that a bit.

[Number23]

98. And wouldn't you know it, most doctors prescribe a schedule of early bedtimes

When at all possible, of course.

But as I said, if you can't do that, then more power to you. Don't let that get in the way of the laughable tone to your post though. Since we're talking about "judginess" and all...

[Pithlet]

126. My point is, a late bedtime isn't horrific abuse.

Pointing at a parent who puts their child to bed at 10:30 like it's just this most ridiculous, horrific parenting mistake is ridiculous.

[Number23]

135. And since no one ever said it was abuse at all let alone "horrific abuse"

do you have a point to your CONTINUING to comment on this and beating this dead horse? You'd think I came to your house and called DFACS on your kid myself the way that you're acting!

LET IT GO.

[rebecca_herman]

97. well yes, obviously it depends on parents schedule, if late bedtime works...

I am not a morning person at all (to put it mildly) and am most productive at night, so if I ever have a child and can afford to stay home with them or if I start work later in the day, I'd probably at least try for a bedtime that does not have the child waking up at 7am. But I work in childcare, so I know sometimes a child just will refuse to sleep at a certain time no matter how much you want them to, so I'm sure I'll end up with s child that is happy and cheerful and awake at 6:30 or 7am. :-P

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumberjack_jeff]

96. Any schedule is fine, provided the baby gets adequate sleep.

No problem with a 10:30 bedtime provided he or she isn't awakened before 8:30

[OhioBlue]

95. depends on naptimes and each individual child.....

not all are the same and not all circumstances are the same.

My son has never needed the same amount of sleep as other children from the day he was born. We have pics of family events.. him and his cousin six weeks older... cousin is always sleeping as a newborn.. by kid.... never..... All the early pics of our boys have my nephew sleeping and my son wide eyed. Some kids are different. Mine likes a later bedtime and more naps... but never the "average" number of hours of sleep for his age... never... no matter what routine or sleep cycle we have tried. If we put him to sleep at age 4 at 7:30 (which does happen on car rides)... he wakes up at 11 or 12.. not able to fall back asleep until 3 or 4 a.m. At 4 yrs old, his best sleep is 10pm to 9am. the next day on the weekends. During the week, when we all have to work and get up for pre-school it is hit and miss if he goes to bed on time or naps/falls asleep and then cannot sleep again until ridiculous hours.

[LuckyLib]

113. Unfortunately, huge heaps of parents have their kids on an adult schedule -- i.e., they go to sleep

when they collapse in a heap, usually late, and this allows the parent(s) to sleep later in the morning. It's rotten for small children's growing bodies and need for sleep, but what can you do?

[Number23]

115. Be prepared for the swarm. It never ceases to amaze me how topics get so completely

twisted here.

What would seem to be common thinking (10:30 is a really late bedtime for a 10 month old) becomes the stage of WWWIII on this web site. Of course that's not always doable. But folks just have to get so damn nasty and personal while they're trying to accuse other folks of being judgmental.

And on top of all this, it doesn't appear that the mother actually did put her kid down that late. Reports are saying that she "checked on the baby at 10:30" not that this was the baby's bed time. For all we know, the baby could have been down for five minutes or two hours.

[Pithlet]

127. There is a difference

between thinking 10:30 is a late bedtime, and pronouncing it with multiple punctuation marks as if its OMGZ so horrible!!?!!?!?!??!?!!!!! Yeah, gee, how could anyone misinterpret that as a judgment.

[Number23]

134. I wish you'd let this go

Really.

Here's what I posted:

"That's at LEAST three hours too late. That child was probably exhausted every single day of her life. I'm not in any way insinuating that just because a parent is negligent or trifling that she would hurt her child in any way, but who in their right mind would let a baby that young stay up so late?"

Not a single case of "multiple punctuation." That was confined to my comments about my OWN children. And if "multiple punctuation marks" get you this upset then perhaps a break is in order.

Are we done yet or are you going to try to burn another 100 calories out of this?

[Pithlet]

142. Not a single case? Your first post:

Number23 (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-07-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. 10:30 for a freaking 10 month old??!

Oh, and your ranting about me not letting it go? I've posted a grand total of five times including this post on this subject. Compared to your nine.

[Number23]

143. Yes, I can see how those two question marks and an exclamation point equate

to me saying that was "horrific abuse."

And I've had probably 5 people respond to my original post which is why I've kept responding. Most of them were intelligent, honest and interesting. And then there was you. Even when I respond to ANOTHER POSTER, you keep responding to me. But yes, you clearly don't have a problem "letting this go."

[Taverner]

41. Whether or not they did it, this reminds us ALWAYS TALK TO A LAWYER BEFORE THE COPS

Cops don't look for who did it

They look for the easiest to convict

[lunatica]

48. Not to worry. Nancy Grace with sniff it all out with those flaring nostrils of hers

[leftyladyfrommo]

55. She will be on this one hot and heavy.

Now they are searching the landfill. The baby disappeared on Monday nite. Trash was picked up Tuesday morning.

[seabeyond]

58. msnbc article.. talking to parents.

We were at the station yesterday being interviewed again, and I just had reached my boiling point and asked them, ‘Guys, I can’t do this anymore today, I need a break, (and) I can’t answer any more questions,’’’ Jeremy Irwin, 28, told Matt Lauer. “The next thing we knew was the press conference yesterday. We want to make sure that we tell everybody that we’re still cooperating, we’re still talking to police, (and) we’re still doing everything we can to try to find Lisa and bring her back home.’’

*

Baby Lisa Irwin's parents say she was snatched from her crib sometime Monday night or early Tuesday. On Thursday night, Kansas City Police Department captain Steve Young announced at a press conference that Irwin and Bradley “decided to stop talking to detectives, and I don’t have to illustrate how that affects the investigation. That speaks for itself.’’ The police still say there are no suspects in the case.

“We don’t have any hard feelings,’’ Deborah Bradley told Lauer. “We’re not mad. We understand this is what they have to do. We’re not angry. We just want our daughter back.’’

Bradley, 25, also admitted on Friday that she had failed a voluntary lie-detector test that was administered by police. “They said that I failed, and I continue to say that’s not possible because I don’t know where she’s at,’’ Bradley said. “I did not do this. I don’t remember which one (question) it was. They just kept saying I failed, I failed, and I said that’s not possible. What do you say when someone tells you that, and you know you didn’t do anything?’’

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44813949/ns/today-today_people/

[xmas74]

59. I can understand them reaching their boiling point.,

You know they probably hadn't slept in a few days and the police were trying to turn them against each other.

Now they're searching the local landfill but another report on local news said they were also looking over surveillance film from California. I still don't know what to think.

[seabeyond]

60. this doesnt tell me anything. which could be the point. i agree.

we still dont know

[xmas74]

61. Same here.

I can see both sides at this time. I'm still choosing to think the parents are not guilty until they prove to me that they are.

It sounds more like intimidation from KCPD instead of good investigating.

[seabeyond]

63. see, and i tend to go the other way, with little belief some stranger broke into the house

i have to continually tell myself it has happened.

[xmas74]

64. I remember Polly Klaas

and I realize that nothing is impossible.

I also have a bias against the KCPD. I used to dispatch for an agency in the area and I know how inept KCPD is. We would have an officer out on a traffic stop running the subject in the vehicle. The subject would have a warrant out of KCPD for a violent crime. We'd send them messages, no response. We'd call them, no response. After a length of time the subject had to be let loose since KCPD refused to verify their own damn warrant-and now the subject knows s/he has a warrant.

KCPD is awful. I wouldn't trust them to find my dog's chew toys.

[seabeyond]

65. polly and smart and it tells me there are more i dont know about. polly's dad RANTS

take the polly, do it all, let them rule you out.

i remember.

i loved that man

[xmas74]

66. That poor man

but I disagree about the polygraph. I would never take one. The officers I worked with when I dispatched always said the worst thing you can do is agree to the poly, since it's subjective and easy to fail.

[Tx4obama]

85. A question about the THREE cell phones

Okay, what I heard was all three cellphones were stolen from the kitchen counter.

If they had three cell phones then wouldn't the dad have had one with him at work so that if his car broke down on the way home he could call someone, or if there had been an emergency at home someone could get in contact with him? Only two adults in the home and three cell-phones and they are all in the same place in the kitchen... hmmm.

And if they didn't have a land-line in the house it seems like the mother would have taken one to her bedroom when she went to bed and put it next to the bed.

The story about the phones doesn't add up to me.

Anyone hear anything else about the phones yet?

[xmas74]

87. One of the three cell phones wasn't in working order.

The mother said that she was charging the two phones on the kitchen counter. The third one was there because she was programming the other two. (From what she was saying it sounds like they received a different phone and she was switching numbers over from the old phone to the new one.) It sounds like dad just forgot to take his phone.

I've heard people call in to the local stations and make comments about how they'd never forget their phones. Personally, I forget mine all the time or leave it at home. I have a job where I cannot have it on during working hours so there is no reason to keep it with me. The neighborhood is older, mostly blue collar-chances are his job has the same policy. (Our work policy is that we cannot receive cell calls, no matter what. If it is a family emergency they are to call the office and the office will relay the message immediately. If we are caught with cell phones in work areas we will receive a suspension. I leave my phone at home because it can be too much of a temptation to check it while at work and I don't need the trouble.)

[Tx4obama]

89. Well....

If the phones were stolen then the police/family should not have said anything in public about knowing they were missing ...
then the police could track the phones without the thief knowing that they were looking for the phones.
When/if the thief used one of the phones the police could tell which tower was picking up signals.

[xmas74]

90. KCPD isn't the best at investigating.

They've made quite a few statements they should not have made.

[Pithlet]

94. I forgot my phone the day my house was broken into, so it got stolen.

I almost never do that. It would figure the one time I do, that's the day my house gets broken into.

[xmas74]

104. That would be my luck. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

91. Polygraphs are not admissible in court. Not reliable.

[cbdo2007]

102. Polygraphs aren't necessarily used to determine "truth" vs "lies"

It's used to shake up suspects and can be VERY reliable in showing inconsistencies in stories. Not "lies" but inconsistencies for them to investigate further. That's why it's still used so much even though it isn't allowed in court.

[xmas74]

105. Exactly.

And everyone was lead to believe that the father stopped questioning after refusing to take a polygraph. According to this report they never asked him to take one:http://www.kmbc.com/news/29420106/detail.html

I hate them administering polygraphs. If you refuse they turn you into a villain. If you consent but are scared and fail you are vilified. They aren't worth it.

[Logical]

107. NEVER TRUST THE POLICE. They are LIARS....legally!

[xmas74]

108. KCPD is no picnic.

They mess things up all the time. And the local media is sweeping some interesting things under the rug, like the surveillance footage of a couple in California with a baby they didn't have before.

[Ilsa]

122. Yep. They tried to get me to cheat on a photographic lineup

By leaving me alone with the perp's folder and and the six-pack folder. I wouldn't do it. I couldn't live with myself thinking I could have implicated someone innocent.

[Logical]

129. Wow, that is a horrible story. You should be proud of yourself for doing....

the right thing.

[Ilsa]

132. It was very frustrating and confusing. I was extremely traumatized.

I suppose they felt they had the right guy and realized I probably couldn't think clearly to ID him. But the decision was amazingly clear.

[Logical]

133. You did the right thing! The criminal justice system is messed up!

[leftyladyfrommo]

109. Day Five and nothing.

This is so disturbing.

The whole city is kind of on edge.

[xmas74]

111. I know.

I was at the UCM/NWMO game here in Warrensburg today and people are still talking about it, even down here.

I'm still waiting on a decision about the tip from California, whether it's valid or not.

[cbdo2007]

112. rumor

I know this is just a rumor but based on how the investigation is going it would make sense...but I have a relative who works at a local news station who was told by a police contact off the record, that when the first officers arrived on the scene the floor in the baby's room was wet along with the hallway and the front room, along with traces of blood, like they had washed the carpet and hosed off the hard floors.

[xmas74]

117. Really?

I know someone with KCPD and spoke with them yesterday. Nothing like that, as far as I've heard, and he'd tell me if they had a lead of any sort. According to him, there's nothing out there.

I used to work with some of the officers in different departments. We go way back and still sometimes keep in contact. What I've heard is that most of it is rumor spun out of control by the local media.

(just wanted to add: if the carpets and such were wet it would have immediately been treated as a much more serious crime scene. There is no way they would have taken down the crime scene tape after a couple of days. That house would be completely sealed off.)

[cbdo2007]

123. Well, this rumor would make sense considering what we know so far....

which is that there are ZERO other suspects and ZERO evidence.

"what I've heard is that most of it is rumor spun out of control..." - most of what?? I haven't heard any rumors about this case. There aren't any besides the one I just heard and put on here. The rest of it is stuff that has been said directly to the media by the police or by the family.

The way it was presented to me was, they don't want another casey anthony and the police don't know what happened, only that it doesn't look good. They don't have the body, they don't have motive, or a weapon, or anything else, so they have to make the parents believe they are looking at other things and that they didn't find anything at their house, etc. because they'll slip up at some point. If they hauled the parents in now, they may never know what happened and then they'll be found innocent in a few years. The house is only so big, so they can only find a certain amount of evidence there before they want the family to think they have moved on. It's a game of cat and mouse.

[xmas74]

124. But the house is no longer sealed up.

The police made a point of unsealing the house on Thursday, when they tore down the tape. And the media is allowed inside what is possibly the scene of a murder during what is an active investigation? I can't see that happening.

Good Morning America has been inside the house and they aired it on television.

http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/news/29427385/detail.html

If the police found blood in the house or even thought there might be evidence in the house they wouldn't have unsealed it on Thursday night when Young made the comment about no longer cooperating. There's no way they would allow the media to traipse in and out of the place. There hasn't been enough time for them to thoroughly collect evidence. If the carpets were wet they would have had the whole place sealed off, sprayed and then probably pulled up the carpets, looking for any blood that might have seeped down to the padding. Every inch of that home would have been processed, which can take days.

[Pithlet]

125. Good points. It would seem to me that they would have been suspects right off the bat

if that rumor were true.

[xmas74]

130. Exactly.

That's why I don't buy the whole "the floors and carpets were just cleaned and still wet" argument. If that's the case then the KCPD is even worse then what I remembered them as being. There's no way they would "unseal" a crime scene, especially if they suspected foul play in that home.

If KCPD really think that the parents did it, they don't think it happened in the house, in their vehicle, or in the yard. The house is no longer sealed, they have their vehicle, and there are no officers securing the yard.

[Liberal_in_LA]

131. this is incredibly sad

[xmas74]

140. This is the only place where anyone has discussed wet floors and

carpets. The house isn't sealed off, there are no police in place around the house, nothing.

If they thought the house was the scene of a murder they wouldn't have allowed the family to stay there and they were staying there still that first night.

[JI7]

119. Are they getting any other police dept or feds to investigate this ?

or is Kansas City Police the only ones doing this ? i'm not sure what the area is like and what other cases they have had in the past . but maybe it might help to get some others involved ?

[xmas74]

121. FBI was out digging through the landfill

and supposedly it's the FBI that's mentioned the tip out of California.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

136. They should never have spoken to the cops.

They should have gotten an attorney immediately. Not because they are guilty, but cops are lazy and convinced that every child abduction and homicide are done by the parents. While I don't know what happened in this case, I know cops. And they screwed themselves not having representation..
Duckie

[xmas74]

137. The parents have been found guilty in the media

but now it's been released that on Friday the police questioned a teen in the neighborhood who had been in the house, knew how to get in the house, and is "of interest". KMBC says that KCPD obtained a DNA sample from the teen.

DNA? The teen's the suspect, not the parents. And I'm betting the tip from California might be the real deal.

[cbdo2007]

138. Whether the teen had anything to do with it or not.....the "california tip" seems

like the farthest likely scenario out of all of them.

[xmas74]

139. Yet it's still out there.

If it weren't plausible it would have already been cleared. That's an easy one-surveillance film has to be checked. It doesn't take that long, considering they've supposedly known about this since Wednesday.

Normally, I'd brush it off but there seems to be something to this. And now they are talking about the tip along with the teen neighbor. If they're collecting dna then they suspect there is something more to this.