Do We really want the Tea Party to participate in OWS?

[Erose999]

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c046f53ef01156f2e40bd970c-800wi

They are racists, homophobes, fundamentalist zealots, bigots, gun nuts, conspiracy theorists, climate change deniers, birthers, and the otherwise willfully ignorant.

Their passion is stomping on our heads.

They cheer when the uninsured die.

They cheer for the executions of people who were likely innocent.

[krabigirl]

1. the elites want the plebes fighting amongst themselves.

[Erose999]

2. The Teabaggers are fighting for the agenda of the elites though. They answer to a corporate agenda.

[xchrom]

4. +1

[DevonRex]

7. My TP family hate blacks, homosexuals and unions. In any order at all.

People still don't understand what and who these people are.

[dionysus]

39. oh dear. that sounds like hollidays are a blast. care for a truffle?

theyyy're gold dusted!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

59. Oh sweetie, it'd take lots of truffles to make me forget

the last visit home. But yeah, i would love one! :hi:

And a cruise missile please. I'm all out. Something to do with MMJ in my recliner with all the launch buttons.

[dionysus]

66. LAUNCH TEH CRUSIE MISSELS!!11

i'm sure wadsworth can ferret out a spare console from one the old launch pads somewhere ;)

[shanti]

18. cut and pasted from my local paper:

I am the 1%.

How do you useless eaters like our, "austerity measures?"

Oh, you thought it was just for the Europeans?

Enjoy the pennies we throw you called, "Unemployment Checks."

When it runs out, you're on your own.

=)



how wonderful.....:(

[lapislzi]

57. This useless eater's labor makes your way of life possible.

This useless eater cleans your toilet, prepares your food, picks up your garbage, cuts your lawn.

This useless eater educates your spoiled children, minds them in your absence, and produces their toys.

This useless eater keeps your streets safe, attends to your medical needs, and extinguishes your fires.

This useless eater delivers your packages, minds your shops, and maintains your utilities.

This useless eater services your automobiles, patches your roads, and clears away the snow.

Do not think I would not dine on your liver.

[shanti]

84. excellent!

:thumbsup:

[HappyMe]

3. As much as I would like to

believe that the tbags don't have some underlying motive....
just go home, tbags.

[Selatius]

5. They're already hypocrites.

If they were as much against the corporate oligarchy as they claim to be for the people, they'd have actually beaten the Occupy Wall Street Movement a long time ago by setting up their occupation first. Nope, they didn't do that at all, and by all indications, they show no interest in joining protesters against Wall Street.

[Kahuna]

8. +1,000,000. They're a bunch of lying, racist hypocrites. nt

[Erose999]

11. I read this morning that the OathKeepers and the Alex Jones consiparcy nuts are planning on being

at OWS with some events of their own, as well as infiltrating the crowd.

No doubt they will have agitators in the crowd to try to turn things violent.

[Erose999]

15. Heres the link:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?321041-Oath-Keepers-to-be-part-of-quot-Occupy-Wall-Street-quot-events-across-the-country.

I bolded select passages for emphasis:

< teabaggers >
Our initiative is to place Oath Keepers’ message of Constitutionality in front of the demonstrators who show up at the rallies.

Oath Keepers is not involved in the leadership of “Occupy Wall Street”, but we have a keen interest in some subtle forces at play in all this, and we have a plan for countering those forces.

We have had numerous reports from our people who have attended some of these rallies, from Occupy Seattle to Occupy Los Angeles to Occupy Boston. Our reports indicate that most youth showing up at these events are people who have been suddenly awakened to the realization that this nation is in serious trouble. Many are frightened, more are angry, and most are confused. Oath Keepers notes that certain forces are attempting to co-opt their awakening by pointing a finger at Wall Street and using the corruption which is certainly documented and obvious to all to attack “capitalism”. They are attacking “capitalism” in order to persuade our youth that socialism (a soft form of communism) is to be preferred over the madhouse tactics of berserk corporate America, or, “Wall Street”. This is a lie being sold to our nation’s youth. Oath Keepers intends to redirect that lie back to the truth, which is the fact that the Federal Reserve is at the heart of the problem and without the Fed the bad boys of Wall Street could not do so much damage to our country.

Therefore, Oath Keepers sees good reason to stand in the streets with these awakening souls and protect their right to free speech, to peacefully assemble, and to redress their grievances to their government, as the Constitution prescribes for all Americans. That is one thing. Another facet of our initiative is to use these public gatherings to reach and teach many who now hunger for the truth -- we can show them how the Constitution will protect them better than an oversized, bloated Federal behemoth hell-bent on controlling every aspect of each citizen’s life.

To point this out to the masses, Oath Keepers is joining forces with Alex Jones of Infowars dot com; Steven Vincent of End The Fed; Danny Panzella’s Truth Squad TV; Brandon Smith’s Alt-Mkt.com; Gary Franchi’s Restore The Republic; and others as quickly as we can contact them. Remember Bob Dwyer, the guy who started the first Tea Party to launch the Ron Paul revolution? He’s in. The forces of Constitutional rule of law must muster now to redirect the bile being belched forth by the socialist/statist extremists who work for Soros and his ilk. Soros wants our youth to believe that capitalism is the enemy within, while in truth it is the Federal Reserve. Oath Keepers has the message American youth need. If we do not go out into the street and give them the truth, can we really say we’re still honoring our Oath?

And further, if we are to reach the youth, should we not approach them in their own voice, on their own terms, in their own vision, so that we might show them the light in a way they can understand and accept? Maybe it’s time we all got up off the sofa, turned off the damned TV set, and get out there with all the other Oath Keepers to share our message with the awakening masses. If there is any question, please pause right now and read this article by Dr. Edwin Vieira, and then come back here and think on what’s below.
< / teabaggers >

These folks have nothing to add. They just want to use OWS as a platform to spread their own message that is contrary to the principles OWS stands for and probably cause a little trouble as well.

[Selatius]

19. Not sure about Oath Keepers, but Alex Jones has been around before TP movement began.

Alex Jones hails from the school of thought that 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government to get the US population to accept draconian measures in the name of "national security" much in the same fashion as the notable Operation Northwoods that was rejected by JFK.

[aquart]

62. I've seen Alex Jones fans on this board. Haven't you?

Sorry, kid. We don't win by throwing people out of the tent.

[DevonRex]

6. Thank you SO much for this. I no longer speak to a sister because

of her racism and homophobia. She's always been that way but the teaparty empowered her to spread that hate in daily multiple emails to everyone she knows. I couldn't stomach it anymore after asking her to stop. She didn't. Then I TOLD her to stop and she continued. It's sickening.

[aquart]

9. Well, we don't want them contaminating us superior beings, do we?

Frankly, you sound at least as bigoted as they do.

[Erose999]

20. See post 15. They couldn't start their own "revolution" so they are trying to steal ours.

[AndyTiedye]

64. That Has Been Their Plan All Along

All along their plan has been to prevent the government from helping,
to the point where they drive the people to rebellion,
then they'll hijack the rebellion.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. +1 n/t

[Whisp]

43. oiy.

no words.

look again at the signs those freaks of nature are carrying, and you want to embrace that kind of thing? the bigotry, homophobia and brainrot?

wow,

just fucking wow.
but I have an idea why you would

[BulletproofLandshark]

46. Are you fucking serious?

Haven't you ever heard of agents provocateur?

[aquart]

61. Yes. And yes.

People who advocate such division should be seriously examined. Anyone who attempts to dehumanize another segment of society should be considered suspect.

The appropriate response to bigotry is NOT bigotry.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. I am superior to low information, Flat Earth, global warming denying, racist homophobic godbags.

There, I said it.

[stevenleser]

99. By "Them" you realize you are referring to Freedomworks and Americans for Prosperity, right? THEY

are the Tea Party.

[barbtries]

10. i honestly don't know.

just last week while talking to my sister (not a teabagger, but, i thought, firmly republican) and she said you know we really don't disagree on all that much. i was able to illustrate two ways that it's gotten worse for the so-called middle, or working class, because of the republicans, and she agreed with the points i made.
this is not to brag about my power of persuasion but to consider that some of these people may also be subject to changing for the better, opening their eyes, getting educated, and if they do, they will be on our side.
we have logic, compassion, reality on our side. all they have are so many tons of CRAP the right's been feeding them for years on end.

[On the Road]

51. I Fully Agree

and you have to approach it with tact and warmth, even if you are screaming inside. When I was a young Republican, I was very impressed with some progressive acquaintances, even though I couldn't see things they way that they did at that time. If I had been turned off, I might never have changed beliefs, even though it took a few years.

Most people are not stereotypes, change over time, and sometimes have an odd mix of beliefs. A lot of union members are right-wing Rush Limbaugh types. A couple of months ago, I had dinner with a vegan who was on the board of some local enivornmental councils. He was also a birther who seemed to be deep into some very right-wing beliefs. This is a lot more common than you might think. At the same time, he had some personal experiences with corruption and inefficiency in local governments, and I was able to learn something from him despite his other opinions.

Recruiting from the right is not high-percentage effort, but it's not a lost cause. Once Tea Partiers turn the corner, they may go all the way left. Going from one extreme to the other is not uncommon. In fact, for the OWS movement to really be successful, it has to get at least some support from people who have certain Republican beliefs.

[Earth_First]

12. #OccupyRochester keeps promoting a coexistance with very vocal Tea Party activists...

The group is so fractured among these lines that my futher support is in question, and I guarantee you that the discussions on their forums have kept people away.

Add to this a few Ron Paul supporters and some Anti-NOW party and American Taxpayer party supporters and I cannot take any more...

[EFerrari]

13. Do you think their corporate donors will bankroll their participation?

Because unless that happens, the question is moot.

[Avalux]

14. If they remain peaceful and not divisive, sure.

Butr knowing their ideology (or lack thereof), I'd expect them to infiltrate for the purpose of causing trouble. With their offensive and misspelled signs.

[walerosco]

83. Jesus Christ

These people are just after the same thing as you. I bet you that they would rather get converts than cause trouble. Theres a lot of young political novices, so they will be out in force to win converts. Its just that simple

[kctim]

16. Well

despite the fact that your stereotypes only apply to a small majority of the Tea Party members, the question shouldn't be about them, it should be about getting the 80% moderate majority of Republicans to support OWS. And you're not going to get that support unless you get rid of the progressive causes and make the protest only about corruption.

[Erose999]

24. See post 15. The nuttiest factions are the ones planning on attending OWS.

Oathkeepers are rightwing militia members.

[kctim]

35. They are not the Tea Party

or the Republican majority. Both who could support a protest against corruption but will not support a protest for progressive causes.


If you are just asking if you want them there or not, and not about getting as much support as needed for real change, then I would say it probably doesn't matter because they also have the freedom to protest.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. You can't "get rid" of anything.

The people are pissed off. That's all anyone needs to know. Government: fix it.

[kctim]

63. Yes they are

the problem is that not even half of them are pissed off at the same things the OWS people are.

[Erose999]

31. The tea partiers would argue that theres no corruption and its the regulations that are the problem.

What then?

[kctim]

67. They argue that government is corrupt

and uses its power to strengthen its hold on the people whenever it gets the chance. That is why, IMO, we need to concentrate on the common denominator, which is corruption, and forget about all the progressive pet issues for now. We can hash those out later.

[Kahuna]

69. Well right now since the government is Obama's administration, you seem

to be advocating joining with the baggers to protest Obama. That's exactly what it would amount to.

[kctim]

80. Now THAT is a very valid point

And is part of the reason why I said concentrating on the 80% moderate majority of the Republican Party would be better than worrying about the minority part of the party.

[Kahuna]

95. Where did you get that number 80% moderate? What oriface did

you pull that out of? There is no polling anywhere to suggest that 80% of the GOP is moderate. If I'm wrong please provide evidence.

[kctim]

103. First, it's common sense that moderates outnumber

the extreme wings of their particular party. About 20% of Democrats identify themselves as liberals/progressives and about 20% of Republicans identify themselves as members of the Tea Party. Of course those numbers fluctuate depending on the poll.

Second, there is a Tea Party poll over at the Huffington Post that is very interesting.

[Kahuna]

106. Nice try, but I want to see an actual poll. Every poll I've seen, the

majority of repubs self-identify as conservative, not moderate.

[Melinda]

75. "...forget about all the progressive pet issues for now. We can hash those out later."

Social Justice is a "pet issue?" Are you kidding me? :wow:

Aside - what's up with the 1%er in your sigline?

[kctim]

82. The progressive view of what is social justice, is what makes it a pet issue

Going by election results and who makes up our representatives in government, progressive solutions are obviously NOT what the majority of Americans want at this time.

I have had the 1%er tag for most of my adult life and have used it as a sig on here for a little over a year now, I think. It is a reference to a way of life, not wealth.

[Erose999]

90. As opposed to the Tea Party's view of social justice? Also, you're saying that the politicians are

representative of what the people want, but when are people EVER satisfied by politicians?

I know people who are very much in favor of progressive policies and ideas but don't vote or participate in that whole process because they are disillusioned. They know that they will never get what they want by working inside the system because the system is rigged to work against them. Even more so with citizens united and the expanded influence of corporate money.

I mean if you looked the the graphs and charts and our elected officials you'd be inclined to think my area was Republican. But we're not... our Blue Dog state senator jumped ship to the GOP.

[kctim]

105. IF the common thread is corruption

then their view of social justice is one of their pet issues.

Sorry, but the people you know do not favor progressive or conservative policies if they choose to make excuses to not vote. It may not be as effective as some may want, but it is the only legal voice we have at the moment.

If those graphs and charts show your area is Republican and you believe it to be progressive, then perhaps the people you know aren't as progressive as you want to believe? Maybe they are moderates?

[Erose999]

116. Theres a huge base of progressives who just don't vote because they are disillusioned with

politicians in general. Particularly the DLC/Turd Way types that this part of the South puts on the ballot. Like I said our local Blue Dog state senator (Doug McKillip) who won by a landslide jumped ship to the GOP. Zell Miller himself also hails from this area (NE GA). The party organization is very much a "country-club" affair. $200 per plate dinners and all that.

You could say that its on the progressives to organize and work with the party leadership, and I suppose you're right about that. But OWS has awakened a sleeping giant and hopefully we'll see more progressive people engaged.

I still think that the Tea Party brings nothing to the table. Yes, they think the government is corrupt, but they think its the regulations that are the source of the corruption. Meanwhile they support Citizens United and the influence the C.U. decision allows corporate money to buy in the political process.

The Teabaggers also support evils such as union busting and charter school "education reform". The OWS movement is not solely about the corruption on Wall St, its about young people re-claiming their future.

[Melinda]

97. I know an awful lot of Methodists who'd be surprised to know "progressive" is outside the norm...

of mainstream America. Look at OWS again - it's diverse, not at all full of protesters from the Socialist Workers Party.

Read my my sig, review the secular political involvement of such persons as Jane Addams (See Teddy Roosevelt, The Progressive Party, and involvement of US Social Workers), look at the historical involvement of religion post-Christ's life and tell me that Social Justice is some out-there, "pet issue".

Stalin once said "It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who I count the votes." You obviously have faith in electronic voting systems. I personally have none. Election results mean little to me other than laying truth to the claim that our votes are rigged, are elections stolen, voters disenfranchised, and most "representatives in in government" bought and paid for.

Why do you suppose there is so much secrecy about how the machines count the votes? Why do you suppose Republican legislatures all over the country work so hard at redistricting? I posit that what we are seeing in action at OWS is a truer reflection of the 'electorate' than what we see in Congress.

Bottom line, for me anyway, Social Justice is "the way in which human rights are manifested in the everyday lives of people at every level of society".(link below) And the people who are protesting in the many cities of this country (more than 960 as I type) ARE everyday Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Justice_Movement

Melinda

[kctim]

109. Sigh

IF the purpose of OWS is to stop corruption on Wall Street, then the personal beliefs of progressives and conservatives about 'social justice' are an aside to that fight against corruption.
IF the purpose of OWS is to stop corruption on Wall Street AND push progressive beliefs, then it is a political rally/protest that will be limited in who supports it.

None of those people give support to the claim that the majority of Americans are progressive today.

Even though I am an atheist, I do read religious stuff and from what I have read, so-called social justice is encouraged for the individual, not government. Yet another reason I do not support mixing religion and politics.

You can believe in the vote conspiracy if you want, more power to you. I am sure it happens sometimes, but cannot figure out why it doesn't happen ALL the time.

Of course the protesters are everyday Americans, they just aren't the only everyday Americans or there would be tens of millions protesting instead of thousands.
And you are free to your view on social justice, but millions of other everyday Americans believe individual rights as granted by our founders, are just as or even more important.

[Melinda]

112. Double sigh.

That's a very large "IF" you've posted. Do you know what the purpose of OWS is? And I am not asking a rhetorical question.

Melinda

[Melinda]

121. Since you haven't responded to my last post, I'm answering my own question.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/

What we currently have is American social and economic INjustice. What OWS demands is the opposite. Period. There is nothing "pet issue" in the release linked to above.

But I guess, again, it all comes down to what the definition of "IF" is. ;)

Thanks for the dialogue. :)

[ellenfl]

17. i still believe that there are 2 tea parties . . . the original

ron paul members, who had legitimate grievances, imo, and the corporate-sponsored wannabes. i think tea party support would be helpful and would differentiate the original from the wannabes. the wannabes' corporate masters would never let them back ows.

the media covers everything about the tea party. tea party support for ows would either elevate the coverage of ows or stymie the corporate backers . . . or both.

ellen fl

[ieoeja]

56. The original tea baggers were angry that a Black man was elected President.

The "legitimate grievances" you typically hear from them today, did not even exist when they first started shutting down town hall meetings.

A bigot who digs up a legitimate beef is still a bigot. That and that alone is what generated the Tea Baggers. Search your memory on when they started.

[ellenfl]

74. not the same

http://www.alternet.org/news/145630/ron_paul_helped_inspire_the_tea_party_movement,_and_now_it_could_take_him_down/

ellen fl

[Shagbark Hickory]

21. What the hell took them so long to show up?

It's like I've been saying all along, these demonstrations do not help Obama.

[walerosco]

85. Better late than never.

Btw what took you so long to start protesting wall street. Its not like they committed their crimes last week

[Shagbark Hickory]

108. Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

:wtf:

[Kahuna]

92. I think that's the point. A friend of mine called today and told me..

that she saw some of the coverage on TV today, and she heard from people concerned about SS and Medicare, a person who identified himself as a "socialist tea partier," and a person who railed against paying taxes (obviously a teabagger). The "message" is already too muddy to serve any useful purpose other than as a circus.

[Shagbark Hickory]

107. Yep. Ask any business person, you want the crowd singing the praises.

Not demonstrating in discontent.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

22. We may have some similar gripes

but the similarity stops there.

Let's look at some differences:

Tea Party types yearn for a mythical past.
OWS protesters want to build a new future.

Teabaggers were recruited in churches and bussed in to rallies by highly organized and well-financed corporate masters.
OWS protesters ride their bikes, or mass transit, or stay in their own hometowns to protest, and no single news "personality" or corporation tells them what to say.

OWS protests are marked by fellowship, solidarity, open-mindedness, and compassion.
Teabag rallies thrive on divisiveness, intolerance, name-calling, and pride of ignorance.

OWS placards are thoughtful, engaging, and occasionally hilarious, and those carrying them can stand by their statements and back them up with facts.
Teabagger placards are nauseating, contradictory, and their makers can't spell for shit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Don't conflate "tea party" with those who participated in the protests.

They are the 99% too.

The Koch brothers and their paid infrastructure can go to hell. Those who participated were generally looking for an outlet for their frustration and Glenn Beck gave it to them.

Unrec for the "they are" stereotyping bullshit.

[Xicano]

26. There's no way I can associate myself with these folks...

They stand for lowering taxes on the "job creators" (aka the 1%).

They stand for NOT taxing corporations.

They stand for union busting.

They stand for total deregulation.

They stand for outlawing abortion.

They stand for no equal rights for same sex couples.



F*k them. We don't need them...

[Pithlet]

27. Exactly. Don't buy the poor little misunderstood tea baggers bullshit. n/t

[Erose999]

32. +1

[ellenfl]

76. no, the corporations that back portions of the tea party

advocate those things. many tea partiers oppose the banksters as much as we do. i have already seen a couple of interviews with ows protestors who say they are tea partiers and they espouse the same anti-bankster feelings that we do. iirc, they opposed tarp even tho' it was a bushco plan.

ellen fl

[Xicano]

102. While I know they do oppose the banksters as much as we do... However

They also take sides on other important issues I cannot associate myself with them on. They're supporters of Reaganomics. They're supporters of outlawing abortion. They're supporters of marriage discrimination against same sex couples. They're supporters of union busting. They're supporters of voter ID bills which will disenfranchise many poor folks. etc.

While I can say I'm glad to see them take the correct position with regard to the banksters. But their other points of view preclude me from associating with them.

[Erose999]

28. I'm all for them contributing positively, but to make a positive contribution they would have to

defy the TP's corporate leadership, and the TP's destructive agenda. Of course, they would pretty much cease to be "Tea Partiers" at that point.



I know they are all not necessarily "bad people" but they fight towards bad ends. Whether they are just misinformed or they are truly evil, they are active participants in some truly evil shenanigans and I'd just as soon have them stay home.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. I guess I agree with this.

You pointed out the thing I object to. The op doesn't appear to contemplate the concept of "former tea partier"... because "they", the horrible icky-people they are, don't belong in "our" club.

OWS absolutely should not be co-opted by any commercial agenda like the tea party was. Beyond that, if you're pissed off at economic circumstance, bring a sign and some good walking shoes. No litmus test required.

[stevenleser]

100. Most of the Freepers are the 99% too. You want them to join OWS? nt

[HughBeaumont]

29. Until they renounce Reaganomics, they can continue to F themselves.

Their unwavering lurves for anti-gubmint screeds and selfish laissez-fail is the deal breaker. Supply Side pyramid scheme enhancement will only make things far far worse.

I don't want to hear any of their pseudo-intellectual justifications for continuing (or in some cases, making markets freer :eyes: ) this crapcake of fail. I also don't want to hear from them how moving to Democratic socialism, a system America has arguably never even TRIED, will be much worse than making markets "freer".

They always talk to you like you're stupid on this despite history being, you know, ON MY SIDE of the argument.

[Xicano]

65. +100

Thanks HughBeaumont.

:toast:

[Liberalynn]

89. +1 Million

Well said. Their(Republicans, Lassiez Faire Marketers, Tea Party) way and their worship of Reagan like he was the second coming is what got us into this mess.

[moondust]

30. Is their influence on Congress a good thing?

:puke:

[PETRUS]

33. My "yes" vote puts me in a serious minority.

The funding and high level organizers (Koch brothers, et. al.) are certainly unwelcome. But my view is that the average tea-partier is a misguided victim of the power elite's divide and conquer tactics. Categorical dismissal of that group is exactly the kind of thing that prevents the 99% from organizing. Outreach will probably require meeting tea partiers one at a time and talking to them one on one, which is difficult, time consuming work - and not all of them can be "reached," intellectually - but it must be done.

[Pithlet]

36. The question wasn't whether anyone should reach out to individuals.

It was whether the tea party should join. I certainly wouldn't have any problem with any one individual who happened to be a tea partier joining the rally. But having organizations there to co-opt the message? No.

[Erose999]

40. See also: post 15. The OathKeepers want to use OWS as a platform to spread their own message. They

have no intention of contributing anything to the OWS movement. They want to put their message in front of OWS' message.

[Pithlet]

48. Yep. They're up to no good.

Now, if these organizations somehow all changed their core missions and wanted us all to work together for economic justice for all, then hey! Great! But that aint gonna happen. None of them have ever shown one iota of interest in economic justice.

[Liberalynn]

91. Exactly

The Tea Partiers that post 15 refers to are talking about the original OWS group as if they are the great unwashed uneducated masses whom the TP'ers "need" to "educate."

Well to me those "kids" on WS now have more knowledge and a better understanding of history and politics then those who claim to want to give them an "education" can ever even hope to have. JMHO.

[PETRUS]

42. Ah, point taken. You are right. nt

[Matariki]

34. I think at heart they have the same greivances

and dialog, real dialog and not shouting, can be a good thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. I will gladly march with anyone who is pro-choice, supports LGBT equality, wants to end the drug war

supports legalization, regulation, and taxation of marijuana, believes the ultra-rich and corporations should pay their fair share to rebuild our infrastructure and educate our kids, supports a Single Payer Health Care System, believes in a solid safety net, thinks the military industrial complex gets way too much money, accepts the science behind evolution and global warming, wants to protect the environment, wants us to move beyond fossil fuels to renewable sources of energy, and believes in the 1st Amendment and the Separation of Church and State...

I don't care WHAT they call themselves. :hi:

[Erose999]

44. touche, lol

[HughBeaumont]

50. Find me a TeaHadist who believes in 50% of that list.

They definitely don't support any of the economic positions you just posted.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Guess I'm not interested, then.

They can page me when they get a clue.

[CanSocDem]

124. The sound of one man walking.....(eom)

[Warren DeMontague]

126. Oh, I know the conventional wisdom poo-bahs might not want to admit it

but there are a WHOLE LOT of me.

[Worship Money]

45. No, get away

Get out, begone.

Most of us here realize that the corporations have successfully pitted us against each in bitter, ultimately pointless ideological combat.

However, at this point, they're too far gone to be salvaged. It's a tragedy and a shame, but they've been zombified. This iteration of baggers, at least, is lost completely. They'll have to be ignored or run over.

[Whisp]

47. NO! a thousand times no....

but can't see how they can be stopped from joining.

and to those who think it's a great idea to join up with those cretinous brainrotted animals, are you fucking crazzzzzy?

the media will make it look like this is a big teaparty rally, they will usurp the whole point of OWS.

[Doctor_J]

49. Their billionaire backers must have told them to hijack this protest

They're slimy, hypocritical racists given credence because the same billionaires who pay their bills also own Big Media. Let them have their own 40-person "rally" and stay the fuck away from real people.

[slackmaster]

73. How do we know the billionaires didn't hire you to spread false flag propaganda here?

They're slimy, hypocritical racists given credence because the same billionaires who pay their bills also own Big Media.

Maybe that's exactly what the billionaires who own Big Media want us to believe.

[Doctor_J]

132. That's probably it

they also paid liberals to carry those signs in the OP to make them look even worse. Man, you right wingers are good at thinking outside the box; the box of sanity

[Hutzpa]

52. K&R

nuff said.

:kick:

[Blue_Tires]

54. nope...they had their innings, this is our at-bat

besides, there are way too many dark faces at OWS and it will make them uncomfortable...

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. Their participation in #OWS is limited to two possibilities:

1. Going the way of the obsolete
2. Waking up and truly joining in.

[AndyTiedye]

60. I Don't Think Any of the People in the Photos Will be Joining OWS Any Time Soon

The same folks at night:


Not everyone who supported the teabaggers is like that though, and perhaps some might be able
to tell the difference between a real popular movement and the made-for-Tee-Vee version.

If some of them join OWS, of course they would be welcome.

That wouldn't be so much "the teabaggers joining OWS" as people defecting from the teabaggers to join OWS.

[Lyric]

68. Is it better to work towards turning your enemy into a decent person, or to continue the war?

Is it better to try and educate someone who's painfully misinformed and ignorant, or should we just dismiss all ignorant people as worthless wastes of our time?

Racism, bigotry, sexism, xenophobia--all of these things are born of ignorance and fear. We can't just make the Teabaggers disappear from the face of the Earth, so we HAVE to educate them. The fastest way to do that is to show them that we AREN'T the monsters that Limbaugh, Hannity, and Coulter portray us as. We're just people. Like them. Sometimes fucked-up people, with our own prejudices and nastiness, some of which you can see in this very thread.

See, I don't buy into all that "OOoooo, the Teabaggers are all two-dimensional cartoon bad guys!" crap. They're as human as we are, and they are just as capable of coming to the right conclusions, if only someone bothered to take 3 seconds and help them figure it out. But it seems to me like some people, rather than DOING something, would prefer sitting around passing judgement from up high. Well that's not me.

It's soooooo easy to say, "Screw the Baggers. They're worthless." But I don't think we should. I think that if we were all standing up together, focusing on what we AGREE about for once, then maybe the Tea Party would finally see us lefties and progressives as human beings. That helps develop empathy--something that many of them sorely, sorely lack right now, and also something that they NEED in order to be healthy, functional human beings.

When you're teaching a nasty child to behave himself, do you isolate him forever? Or do you spend time teaching him better? Showing him an example of how much less painful life can be when we're kind and compassionate to each other instead of suspicious and aggressive?

I'll tell you this much--no "movement" that utterly rejects the other side of the political spectrum is EVER going to succeed. So I guess, for me, it's a simple decision. Do I want to see this revolution actually ACCOMPLISH something, or do I just want to yell for a while and then go back to being an exploited, failing wage slave?

I'd like to SUCCEED. Let the Baggers come. At this point, anybody who's willing to fight Wall Street with us is valuable. Without the right wing, we're not the 99%. We're the 49%, and that's just not enough.

Flame away, but you all know it's true. The Teabaggers are not really our enemy. The people who helped create them are. THOSE people can be found on the Wall Streets of the nation, and THOSE are the people we need to focus on right now.

[slackmaster]

70. The moment OWS starts dividing up the "99%" is the moment it starts to defeat itself

HTH

(ETA I believe that in-fighting will be the ultimate undoing of OWS. I think it is inevitable.)

[Kahuna]

93. Really? My friend saw one of the 99ers, railing against being taxed

on TV. Sounds like a teabagger infiltrator to me.

[slackmaster]

110. I think you are unclear on the concept of being mad as hell, and not gonna take it any more.

[Kahuna]

115. I've been mad a whole lot. But I usually address it with some

action that will RESOLVE my reasons for being angry. No, I do not act out just to be acting out. I find that to be counterproductive.

[Shandris]

71. I wouldn't mind the support of the 'actual' Tea Party.

You know, that micro-sized movement that stands against corporate power the way we do, even if for different reasons?

But the 'mainstream' Tea Party, the ones you mention (racists, homophobes, zealots, and so forth)? Hell no. We don't want certifiable lunatics. That's the label the media's trying to pin on us in the first place!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

72. "We?"

This is bigger than those of us that despise the tea baggers. Their numbers are inconsequential in the bigger picture.
The energy wasted in trying to exclude them would only make Democrats look bad. Let them try to bring their
guns or other bogus tactics to the protests, they will be cutting their own throats.

[Wait Wut]

77. This...from my local paper

Check out some of the comments.
http://prescottdailycourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=98742

I suggest anyone who cast their vote for the first two options attend a local teaper hop and see how well you get along with them.

[Melinda]

78. Hell no... Damn Trojan horses will go all Sun Tzu on our asses.

Let em continue their own damn revolution. This one is ours.

[wickerwoman]

79. If they support increased government regulation of the banking industry,

then why not?

Of course then they wouldn't really be teabaggers. Or they would be really confused teabaggers.

[Kahuna]

94. They will not support that because they already have a platform they

support. Haven't you been noticing what their congress-critters have been doing?

[wickerwoman]

111. That's my point.

It doesn't make sense to include the Tea Party in OWS because their platform, by definition, is the opposite of OWSs.

[Kahuna]

114. I was agreeing with you. nt

[Rectangle]

81. You gotta be F#@king kidding ..right?

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberalynn]

87. Not just no but hell no!

[Jack Rabbit]

88. Let's take that on a case-by-case basis . . .

First of all, the Tea Party is the Koch Brothers, Dick Armey, Rick Scott and people like them. It is not a grass roots movement. It is astroturf. A mass movement does not hold conventions asking hundreds of dollars for admission. They simple demagogues like Sarah Palin a bullhorn and attracted racists who resented having a black president. No, that Tea Party I don't want in the movement. Of course, they would not want to be part of a real mass movement, anyway. They despise democracy and wouldn't fit in.

Now, as for those they've led around by the nose for three years who were deluded into thinking they really were part of a mass movement, let's take a look. There are many who think that Brown Shirt tactics are fine and well. They're not interested in joining the 99%ers, even if they have more in common with a college student looking a lifetime of paying off debt or a working professional who has fallen out of the middle class after two or three years of unemployment than with Jamie Dimon. There are many who think that they are better than the rest of us because they go to the "right" church. There are some who think that being white or male should afford them some privilege. This is a movement committed to democracy, and those people have no idea what that means. To make it simple, one who believes in a "natural" social hierarchy is not a democrat.

There may be a few who realize they've been had by the astroturf manufacturers, if not for just the last three years, then for a lifetime; that even though some are white males, they have more in common with the black woman who toils scrubbing floors just to feed her children than have they with robber barons on Wall Street; that mere financial success is no more a measure of one's nobility than is being born the child of the King and Queen. If so, then dope dealers are great men and King Louis XV was righteous leader. They are aware that no man has any right to rule over another without the other's consent. They know that living in a society may restrict an individual's freedom, that it is part of human nature for each of us to reach out to his fellows to accomplish things better than he can alone. That is called society. Anybody who says there is no such thing as society or that he owes nothing to humanity at large is a sociopath, whether it's said by a nineteenth century robber baron like J. P. Morgan or character in twentieth century fiction like John Galt (which only means that Ayn Rand, Galt's creator, was a sociopath).

Now, to those people we can talk.

[mmonk]

96. No. They do not understand economic justice.

[TK421]

98. To those who voted no, please think of all the port-a-potties they can clean!

[TNLib]

101. I think it will add more bodies and numbers to movement

and I don't think they'll be able to muddle the message since there are so few of them.

[Doctor_J]

127. You couldn't be more wrong

They'll COMPLETELY hijack the message because they'll get all of the attention from Big Media

[loyalsister]

104. "The" tea party or

people who participated in tea party rallies? There's a distinction and I would say that people who are sympathetic to OWS for the same reasons they were attracted to the tea party (anger at government) should be welcome.

[MrSlayer]

113. They are diametrically oppossed to everything OWS is about.

It makes no sense for them to be there.

[Supply Side Jesus]

117. prehaps a ideology purity test should be written by here

it is DU and all. No one knows ideology purging like some folk here.

[Odin2005]

118. Looks like DU has fallen for the PTB's divide and conquer trategy. *SIGH*

[Doctor_J]

128. Looks more like some trollers have infiltrated with their

"teabaggers are just like us" meme.

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Hell no

[ZombieHorde]

120. If we don't include 99% of the population, are we lying when we call ourselves the 99%? nt

[me b zola]

122. I had to think about this quite a bit before i could vote

Because as the first responder to this post stated, the elites want us to be divided. But as your post points out, teapartiers act as violent mobs to squelch the free speech of those they disagree with. Teapartiers despise everything that OWS stands for.

So after thoughtful consideration (about a days worth :) ) I had to vote for the assholes to stay home. Nothing good will come from them being involved in this movement.

[1776Forever]

123. I agree with your point. I also had to think about it - After all we are all in the same boat -

however it became obvious that if we did let them in they would only say "My Way Or The Highway" to us. So what good would it do to let them in?

[LWolf]

125. We want all people to participate. nt

[alfredo]

129. We ask them so they will be on the record rejecting our offer.

[Edweird]

130. Who is this 'we' you speak of?

[AverageJoe90]

131. They're gonna HAVE to f*** off if we want this movement to survive.

We may need to take legal action if this continues..........that is, if any is possible.