France bans ketchup in cafeterias

[Renew Deal]

Reporting from Paris— First France built a wall around its language to protect it from pernicious Anglo-Saxon invaders. Now it is throwing up a shield against another perceived threat to its culture and civilization: ketchup.

In an effort to promote healthful eating and, it has been suggested, to protect traditional Gallic cuisine, the French government has banned school and college cafeterias nationwide from offering the American tomato-based condiment with any food but — of all things — French fries.

As a result, students can no longer use ketchup on such traditional dishes as veal stew, no matter how gristly, and boeuf bourguignon, regardless of its fat content.

Moreover, French fries can be offered only once a week, usually with steak hache, or burger. Not clear is whether the food police will send students to detention if they dip their burgers into the ketchup that accompanies their fries.
<snip>

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-france-ketchup-20111006,0,1095831.story

[uncle ray]

1. you mean Freedom Sauce?

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. +1 n/t

:rofl:

[DeSwiss]

27. Good one!

[lunatica]

61. That's the reply I wanted to hear!

Excellent one!

[NeedleCast]

2. They prefer the health benefits of Mayonaise I guess

or, possibly, butter.

[uppityperson]

35. mayo is being restricted, same as ketchup is. Not banned but restricted.

[HappyMe]

3. But ketchup is a vegetable!!

[Tesha]

9. Yes, but so was Reagan, so he "identified" with it. (NT)

[Selatius]

4. The Sarkozy government is trying to distract the population away from economic issues.

So they use cultural wedge issues to try to steer attention away from the fact that Sarkozy's economic policies suck.

[Bloke 32]

37. Thank God Mr Sarkozy is the only pol who would do such a thing!

[Bigmack]

5. YESSSSSSS! nt

[Bunny]

6. Well, that tears it!

Guess I won't be going to France anytime soon. Perhaps I'll reconsider if they let me bring my own personal bottle:

[Renew Deal]

11. PUT THE KETCHUP DOWN AND PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR!

Por Favor! :D

[EFerrari]

7. Who do they think they are, San Francisco?

[Renew Deal]

12. lol

:rofl:`

[geardaddy]

8. Are they gonna ban Vietnamese and Tunisian food, too?

Idiots.

[Ilsa]

10. There will be a black market for small ketchup bottles

at school street corners! :silly:

[Renew Deal]

13. I'll give you a squirt of ketchup for 2 cigarettes.

:yoiks:

[abelenkpe]

14. Sugar is the second ingredient listed in ketchup

and as such not allowed in my kids school.

But this does seem rather silly.

[brendan120678]

19. Third listed in Heinz. According to my bottle, at least.

Tomato Concentrate
Vinegar
HFCS
Corn Syrup
Salt
Spices
Onion Powder
Natural Flavoring

[abelenkpe]

21. Oooo good to know

My daughter would be so happy to be able to take that with her lunch. She loves sauces and dips of every kind :)

[Trillo]

29. I wonder if the purpose of the sugar is to compensate for using

either unripe or gas-ripened tomatoes? Anyone know?

It's really impossible to test those ideas out in a home kitchen without a vacuum evaporator. Trying to use only heat to make my own tomato paste burns the tomatoes judging from the burned flavor.

[iris27]

64. It's only third because they list HFCS and corn syrup separately; they're both sugar. n/t

[FarCenter]

15. It is a health and nutrition issue, not a nationalism issue

"The rules call for school officials to cut down on fatty foods and introduce more vegetables, fruit and dairy products. Four or five dishes must be offered each day with a serving of cooked or raw vegetables, preferably seasonal. Pupils can have unlimited amounts of bread and water.

Recommendations that included the ketchup cutback were made by government researchers more than four years ago, but the decree took effect only this week, a month after the start of the school year. It applies immediately to all cafeterias in schools and government buildings except those serving fewer than 80 meals a day. Cafeterias must keep records for school health officials of what has been served."

[NeedleCast]

24. Have you actually seen real French Cuisine?

They use more butter than the rest of the planet combined. This has nothing to do with health. Ketchup has far fewer calories per serving than mayo, which is not banned.

[uppityperson]

32. Yes, they are restricting mayo like they are restricting ketchup. Not banning but restricting.

But children will be the first to suffer directly, when as of this week, fries will be reduced to a once-weekly treat at school. Canteens are also required to offer a wider selection of vegetables, and make dairy products a daily must, while ketchup and mayonnaise will be restricted to one sachet per pupil.
http://beyond.blogs.france24.com/article/2011/10/04/ever-fatter-french-kids-forced-cut-down-fries-0

[FarCenter]

40. My recollection of meals served in a French company cafeteria is that they were pretty healthy

In the winter, they were short of fresh vegetables, so root vegetables and preserved vegetables and fruits were more common than in the US. Otherwise, they had well prepared meats, fish, potatoes, pasta, and vegetable selections. They were much more like home cooked meals than what you find in American cafeterias. They didn't have the racks of packaged goods either.

[hifiguy]

42. Lots of butter, yes

but the portion sizes in the restaurants are nothing like those in the US. They are much smaller. So the butter isn't that big of a deal in real French food.

I spent ten days in France a number of years ago and the few fat people I saw were Americans, usually speaking loudly.

[dana_b]

44. that's true

their portion sizes are smaller and they eat in moderation. Also they eat more veggies than we do.

I love France - can't wait to go back. Oh, and I don't speak loudly (although I could lose a few pounds!). ;)

[progressoid]

71. +1

yup.

[cui bono]

69. Less calories doesn't make something healthier. HFCS is a lot worse for you than butter.

High fat isn't what's so bad for your body but HFCS has been proven to be bad for you and lead to obesity. It's not natural. It's in almost every processed food and beverage sold here and we're the country with the obesity problem. If we gave that up for a French diet we'd lose weight as a whole.

[WingDinger]

16. I wish WE would ban American CHEESE FOOD substitute.

[Brother Buzz]

17. Relabel it Catsup and call it a day

Del Monte, you caved too soon.

[HappyMe]

18. That's funny..

:spray:

[SoCalDem]

65. or call it what its inventors did

In the 1690s the Chinese mixed together a concoction of pickled fish and spices and called it kôe-chiap or kê-chiap (鮭汁) meaning the brine of pickled fish (鮭, carp; 汁, juice) or shellfish.<2>

By the early 18th century, the table sauce had made it to the Malay states (present day Malaysia and Singapore), where it was discovered by British explorers, and by 1740, it had become a British staple. The Malay word for the sauce was kĕchap. That word evolved into the English word "ketchup".<3>

Tomato sauce

An alternative Chinese theory expounded in certain dictionaries<13> states that the word "ketchup" derives from a Chinese word composed of two characters (茄汁), which means "tomato sauce". The first character (茄), meaning "eggplant", is also the root for the word "tomato" (番茄(lit. "southern foreigner's eggplant") in Mandarin and Cantonese or 紅茄 (lit. "red eggplant") in Taiwanese.

Some have stated (without authority) that at the relevant time tomatoes were unknown in China; however, the first recorded mention of "tomato" in China is Zhao Han's (赵函) "Zhi Pin"("植品") (1617) which states that the tomato was introduced into China by missionaries in the late 16th century. The second character (汁) means "juice" or "sauce". Pronunciations of this word vary by region, but their similarities to the English "ketchup" can be noticed.
茄汁
Language Pronunciation (IPA) Other transcriptions
Cantonese Jyutping ke2 zap1
Taiwanese POJ kiô-chiap
Malay theory

Ketchup may have<13><14> entered the English language from the Malay word kicap (pron. "kichap", also spelled kecap, ketjap), originally meaning "fish sauce",<13> which itself may be<13> a loan from Chinese terms above.

In Indonesian cuisine, which is similar to Malay, the term kecap or ketjap refers to savory sauces. Two main types are well known in their cuisine: kecap asin which translates to 'salty kecap' in Bahasa Indonesia (a salty soy sauce) and kecap manis or literally 'sweet kecap' in Bahasa Indonesia (a sweet soy sauce that is a mixture of soy sauce with brown sugar, molasses, garlic, ginger, anise, coriander and a bay leaf reduced over medium heat until rather syrupy). A third type, kecap ikan, meaning "fish kecap" is fish sauce similar to the Thai "Nam Pla" or the Philippine "Patis." It is not, however, soy-based.
European-Arabic theory

American anthropologist E.N. Anderson claimed that ketchup is a cognate of the French escaveche, meaning "food in sauce".<12> The word also exists in Spanish and Portuguese forms as escabeche, "a sauce for pickling", which culinary historian Karen Hess traced back to Arabic iskebey, or "pickling with vinegar".<12> The term was anglicized to caveach, a word first attested in the late 17th century, at the same time as ketchup.<12>

[Brother Buzz]

68. Call it catsup, catchup, katsup, catsip, cotsup, kotchup, kitsip, catsoup, katshoup, katsock....

cackchop, cornchop, cotpock, kotpock, kutpuck, kutchpuck or cutchpuck.

Interesting, Catsup first appeared in western print around 1690, about forty years before Ketchup.

"Would you like that Supersized?"

[HereSince1628]

22. Mais, les autorités laissez-les manger le gâteau ? n/t

[uppityperson]

23. Another story link. not "french fries" but frites. They are rationing high sugar, fat, salty foods.

http://beyond.blogs.france24.com/article/2011/10/04/ever-fatter-french-kids-forced-cut-down-fries-0

The French are up in arms over a school canteen policy that limits fried potatoes to one serving per week. It’s something we know only too well in 'larger' countries like the UK and US, but it’s proving a hard sell in Europe’s slimmest nation.

Renowned for their fine cuisine and slender figures, it’s hard to imagine the French suffering an obesity problem. But like the rest of us, France is growing fatter. According to a 2009 survey by the Ministry of Agriculture and Food, some 41 per cent of French adults and 19 per cent of French children are now overweight or obese.

In an effort to tackle the problem before France goes the way of its transatlantic and northerly neighbours, the government has gradually introduced the idea of moving more and eating less to the lethargic population. Foods high in fat and salt are now accompanied by a discreet health warning, and walking short distances heartily encouraged by the local authorities. The state has also launched a 'Don't snack' poster and film campaign, which springs at the cruelest of moments, like just as you're tucking into your popcorn at the cinema.

But children will be the first to suffer directly, when as of this week, fries will be reduced to a once-weekly treat at school. Canteens are also required to offer a wider selection of vegetables, and make dairy products a daily must, while ketchup and mayonnaise will be restricted to one sachet per pupil. The only all-you-can-eat item is bread.(clip)





While France remains one of the slimmest countries in the Western world, it’s far from health-food-obsessed. On the contrary, it is Europe’s biggest consumer of MacDonalds, affectionately and universally known simply as ‘MacDo’. It’s here that Nutella chocolate spread is advertised as a nutritionally sound breakfast for children (the same campaign was banned in the UK for misleading customers). It’s also near-impossible here to find low-fat schemes in high-street food outlets like sandwich shops and pasta bars. And unlike in the UK and US, supermarkets rarely advertise products by their low calorie count.

[dana_b]

47. "don't snack"

hmmm.... although healthy snacking s a good idea if you are trying to lose/maintain weight. Then people don't gorge themselves at mealtimes.

[uppityperson]

50. Have you sat through a typical french meal? They may not gorge but the meal

often goes on for hours. Visited in-laws in a rural area and was amused. Breakfast was coffee and bread products. Noon meal went from noon to 3. Then took a nap while they cleaned and prepared for the beginning of supper which went from 6-9.

Starters of cashews, olives, nibbles were on table. Then pate course. 3 different kinds. Bread and wine between and during. Then pasta noodle course, again 3 kinds. Then meat course. With pomme de terre of a couple different sorts. And legumes, green beans, some other veggie. And chopped garden tomatoes. Then salad, green lettuce. Then fruits and cheeses, at least 5 different cheeses. Finally several types of dessert. With wine and bread throughout, except for sweet dessert.

Beware, nibble as you go. Each course could have been a meal for us here at home. It was great. But beware. It takes hours. That was lunch, fortunately supper was mostly leftovers and "lighter" though still as involved.

Edited to add about a truck stop I ate lunch at. OMG, the salad bar had about 6 kinds of pate, 6 kinds of sausage slices, 10 different pasta/rice salads. For starters. Then the main course was rabbit and frites (fries). Dessert was floating island, along with a visit to the cheese and fruit bar. And lots of bread. Cider to drink. A typical truck driver, working person's lunch. For about 10 euros, $14.

[dana_b]

52. no I haven't and you bring up

an interesting point. Their culture is very different from ours regarding food and the customs that go with it. Many of us rarely take the time to eat with our families so the idea of sitting down for three hours for a meal is almost unheard of. I am taking a French class now and our teacher tells us about the meals that they have on Sundays with their families (avec les grand-parents)and how it goes on all afternoon.

So I guess if that were the case, then snacking WOULDN'T be a good idea. Here, it makes more sense (to me, anyway).

[uppityperson]

54. The snacking I saw, which granted was limited to my extended family, was kids after school

since the actual dinner food didn't start at their house until after 7. Rather like tea in England is how I thought of it. Sunday meals, those formal ones, are incredible. Not sure when I'd've snacked when visiting them as my stomach was filled most of the time.

[uppityperson]

25. Not banned but limited. here is Le Monde article... and yes, people are upset.

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2011/10/03/une-plus-grande-variete-alimentaire-dans-les-cantines-scolaires_1581260_3224.html

(translated) "Four or five dishes will be presented at each lunch or dinner , which necessarily includes a filling main course, and a dairy product , " says the decree .

Water and bread will be made ​​available without restriction. Salt and sauces (mayonnaise, salad dressing, ketchup) will, however, be freely available but according to the dishes served, indicating the order of application of the decree, also published in the Sunday Gazette.

The managers of school canteens will "maintain a register in which are stored on the last three months, the documents attesting to the composition of meals, including menus and specifications descriptive of food products purchased from suppliers , " according the terms of the decree .

[slackmaster]

26. But they can still go to Burger King, order a Royale with Cheese, and put ketchup on it

The kids in school will have to put mayonnaise on their pommes frite.

[FrodosPet]

34. You mean McDonalds?

Vincent: "In Paris, you can buy a beer in McDonald's. And you know what they call a Quarter Pounder with Cheese in Paris?"
Jules: "They don't call it a Quarter Pounder with cheese?"
Vincent: "No, man, they got the metric system. They don't know what the f*** a quarter pounder is."
Jules: "Then what do they call it?"
Vincent: "They call it a Royale with cheese."
Jules: "Royale with cheese. What do they call a Big Mac?"
Vincent: "Big Mac's a Big Mac but they call it le Big Mac."
Jules: "Le Big Mac. What do they call a Whopper?"
Vincent: "I don't know, I didn't go into Burger King."

[slackmaster]

38. Oh yeah, you're right.

:D

[Iggo]

43. Zero posts.

Neat glitch.

[NBachers]

28. Does Catsup count?

[Brother Buzz]

30. If Brooks still made catsup

Brooks Rich & Tangy Ketchup

[MilesColtrane]

31. Time for a new Marshall Plan.

Begin the airdrops!

[HappyMe]

48. Oh yeah!

Do it now! :spray:

[Lyric]

33. Honestly, ketchup is effing gross. I don't know why people eat it.

I wouldn't support banning it here, because it's part of our culture. But it's not a part of France's culture, and I don't blame them one bit for trying to keep it out.

Edit: I will, however, give much props to REAL ketchup--the kind I occasionally make in my kitchen with garden tomatoes, cider vinegar, a pinch of sugar, and plenty of spices. That stuff is delicious.

[SpartanDem]

36. Nothing new for the French

they've always had this bug up their ass about culutral purity. They literally have a commission that decides what words are French. There is why reason English is language of world business and large part it is adaptable.

[uppityperson]

39. Limiting high sugar, fat, salt condiments is "bug up their ass"? I wish people

would read more and not insult so much. http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2011/10/03/une-plus-grande-variete-alimentaire-dans-les-cantines-scolaires_1581260_3224.html

[SpartanDem]

45. Do you anything about French cuisine?

and how heavy it on thing like butter, it is anything, but light and low fat. Hell in the OP they all but admit that culture protectionism was part of the reason for the change. "Canteens have a public health mission and also an educative mission. We have to ensure that children become familiar with French recipes so that they can hand them down to the following generation," he told the Times of London."

[uppityperson]

46. Yes, I do. Parts of it are heavy on butter. I don't see how limiting fats, sugar, salt for kids is

bad though. Don't see how it is "bug up the ass" but promoting better diet. Your comment of it being "anything but light and low fat" seems to support the idea of promoting less usage of such. So why is it "bug up the ass"?

Do you know that "French cuisine" varies widely across France?

[SpartanDem]

58. I never said it was bad

the bug of up the ass comment was about the cultural motivations that is party behind this move. One this issue the French certainly have a bug of their ass, to discourage the language adaptations we've seen in English the the government has banned words in official communications. Average people are not being dragged to Bastille for breaking "rules", but I see just another symbol of French xenophobia. You have admit there certain irony in all the fatty things in French cooking, they choose to ban ketchup. I've never had issues with thing like banning pop machines etc in schools.




PARIS -- Goodbye "e-mail," the French government says, and hello "courriel" — the term that linguistically sensitive France is now using to refer to electronic mail in official documents.

The Culture Ministry has announced a ban on the use of "e-mail" in all government ministries, documents, publications or websites, the latest step to stem an incursion of English words into the French lexicon.
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/07/59674

[uppityperson]

60. Provincial, so to speak. They are LIMITING ketchup, mayo, salty, fatty, sugary condiments

Not banning them, but limiting them. For instance, they will still have ketchup, just limit them to use with frites, which will be limited to once a week at school cafeterias. The OP focused on ketchup being "banned", yet missed the larger picture of fatty, sugary, salty condiments and foods being LIMITED.

Yes, they can be a bit provincial about language and xenophobic indeed. And yes, I use "provincial" on purpose, am pronouncing it franco also.

edited to add, my apologies for taking offense at "bug up the ass" phrase, was thinking you meant to use this to bash, not as you did mean.

[GoneOffShore]

62. There are now more Francophones in the world than Anglophones

It is the preferred language in Africa.

[Iggo]

41. But what will they put on Standard Fries?

[mainer]

49. They haven't tasted fresh, homemade ketchup

made with fresh vine-ripened tomatoes, onions, and vinegar. There's nothing artificial or gross about it.

[Initech]

51. No fair - they get real ketchup, we get high fructose crap.

[dana_b]

53. Hunts ketchup doesn't have HFCS. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

67. Try Annie's Organic Ketchup

It's more expensive, but NO HFCS. It's also delicious. We buy their Dijon mustard as well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402254490

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheManInTheMac]

56. Veal stew? Boeuf bourguignon? Damn!

I looked forward to the pizza and macaroni and cheese days.

[EFerrari]

57. Who puts catsup on beef bourguignon?

Infamia!

[sfpcjock]

59. To Reagan it was a "vegetable", but to froggies it's outré. I say, yeah. It tastes nothing like Muir

Muir Glen Organic (or even Contadina) tomato paste which improves most dishes, and it's mostly sugar or high fructose corn syrup. Y'all knew that, right?

[Enrique]

63. the French have always been jealous of American cuisine

;-)

[MrScorpio]

66. French Fries are actually Belgian anyway nt

[struggle4progress]

70. How can anyone enjoy a baguette and brie without ketchup?

[NBachers]

72. Well this topic seems to have struck a nerve