Romney speech at Citadel encouraged insubordination. Right?

[ClusterFreak]

How could you not conclude this after watching it? Mittens stood up there before a class of military cadets and trashed their boss, their Commander In Chief. Rank is everything in the military, right? Didn't Romney stand there and encourage the cadets to side with him against the person at the very top of the chain of military command? I mean, he did that. I saw it as well as you. And he said their boss, the President, the Commander In Chief, didn't want America to be the strongest country in the world.

How does what Willard did and said in his speech not constitute some kind of sedition? I don't know if Obama or Clinton or any other Dem has ever spoken out against a currently serving Commander In Chief before an audience filled with military servicemen and women...but I swear if it ever happened the right wing would go ballistic.

:mad:

[immoderate]

1. Sorry. Obama only commands the Union Army.

--imm

[Bozita]

6. DUzy, for sure!

[Cool Logic]

2. Has the 1st Amendment been suspended...? Lighten up...it was a political speech...

Would you have expected Obama to sing the praises boy bush's leadership prowess during the 2008 campaign?

[ClusterFreak]

3. You completely missed the point.

Show me the text or a video clip of a speech candidate Obama gave before an audience of currenty serving military personnel or cadets where he bashed Bush, then the president and Commander In Chief, and I'll eat my hat.

[Cool Logic]

5. Really man? Sedition...? Let me tell you what: I'll close Guantanamo...

if you can place your finger on the verbiage that rises to the level of sedition.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/10/07/text-of-mitt-romneys-speech-on-foreign-policy-at-the-citadel/

There is no cause for alarm, my friend, for it was same ol'-same ol'. That is to say, is was: Mr. I Will Be Anything You Want Me to Be...Mitt Romney.

The Greatest Generation is passing. But as their light fades, we must seize the torch they carried so gallantly at such sacrifice.

Obviously, he has not a clue. For this is the real Greatest Generation...

[ClusterFreak]

10. Really? You can do that? Cool!

That's almost as impressive as the picture of slave owners you included in your post. Or, as you call them "the real Greatest generation".

I don't need any history lessons, 'k? The Founding Fathers were indeed great, but some of the stuff they talked about, like all men are "created equal"...well, turns out they really only meant some men. Black men, and women, were considered to be less than human. No need to rehash this stuff either, but maybe a refresher was in order after your professorial, condescending post. The F.F.'s were great...but they weren't infallible. They thought it was just fine to own people, people who they considered sub-human.

As for my use of the word 'sedition'...no, he didn't say rise up against your president and overthrow him'...but Mittens did tell a bunch of military cadets that their boss - to whom they are bound by an oath of loyalty, no(?) - sucked at his job and that he could do better. He encouraged them to side with him, against their boss, their Commander In Chief, their President.

Is it sedition, in the Enemy of the State sense, punishable by death? No, hardly. It is I believe at the very least shameful. And it's apiece of the drip, drip, drip from the right that Barack Obama isn't really an American, or a real American, that he is some kind of illegitimate, socialist (read: African-American) interloper who doesn't reflect 'real' American values and as such is unfit to hold the highest office in the land.

It may not be sedition itself, but IMO it is the kind of dangerous talk that plants it's foul-smelling seeds.

[Cool Logic]

18. The FFs anecdote was meant to underscore the generic and artificial nature of Romney's persona...

and the disingenuousness of his words.

He encouraged them to side with him, against their boss, their Commander In Chief, their President.

Obama is not their boss, nor is he their CIC. For The Citadel's cadets are not members of the US armed forces.

Nevertheless, I agree that Romney's words were "shameful," However, shameful speech is protected by the 1st Amendment.

[ClusterFreak]

19. So they are in training for him to be their boss.

We can agree on that. Otherwise, the semantics don't really matter. They are in the pipeline to be in the military...they aren't training up to be actors or fishermen.

And of course Romney's words are disingenuous...he is a chameleon who tailors his comments to his crowd. Like most politicians, but he is among the worst offenders.

If he gave this speech on a U.S. military installation like Fort Campbell or Camp Pendleton...would you still be defending him? His prop audience would then not be cadets, but active duty personnel.

[Cool Logic]

22. "...would you still be defending him?"

My defense is of the 1st Amendment, for I understand that it applies to the "other guy" as well.

Labeling speech that one disagrees with as sedition, is an affront to those rights.

[ClusterFreak]

23. So long as your cool with it.

Presidential candidate tells America's next generation of soldiers that the C.I.C. most of them will soon serve, is a rank failure and does not represent true American values.

If it's not sedition, it's incendiary, inciting speech before an assembled group of military cadets aimed at undercutting the duly-serving head of the United States military. Their boss-to-be.

That was ALWAYS my point.

[MattBaggins]

8. that's the problem

The cadets are not fully soldiers and are in a sort of quasi state.

The whole shebang was a setup without the school endorsing it. Romney rented the room and students were allowed to attend the speech as they chose.

School staff members were forbidden from attending in uniform.

[ClusterFreak]

9. I didn't know that stuff...

That makes me feel a little better I guess. Regardless, the MSM punditocracy have been totally silent on the optics of all this, focussing instead on the 'muscularity' of Mittens' foreign policy speech.

[Cid_B]

17. You are short on a few of the facts so I'll help you out...

Cadets at the Citadel are not active duty serving military members.

The majority of cadets are civilians who are attending college and following a military style structure while doing so. The minority, who are in ROTC and plan on accepting commissions upon graduation, are no different than the ROTC at any other college in the US.

In other words, the audience has exactly the same standing as at any other college. (i.e. http://army.berkeley.edu/)

[ClusterFreak]

21. I don't need your help, friend.

Here's a fact: these cadets will either join the military or they won't. Presumably, most will. When they do, Obama will be their Commander In Chief. Romney trashed the person at the very top of their chain of command, once they enter the military.

[Cid_B]

25. So by that logic...

He shouldn't talk at a local high school because some of those students will join the military at some future point in their life?

Check your logic and take another swing...

I'll check on your progress later.

[glarius]

4. It wasn't only Romney's concluding remarks that were alarming...

I heard him from the beginning and he tried to connect Obama in some way to every terrorist organization or warlike happening in the world today. It was beyond belief. The man came across as a complete looney.

[tuckessee]

7. You people are hysterical. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. While the citadel does feed officers to the US Army

it is not a US Military insitution... so technically he was not talking about their commander in chief.

[ClusterFreak]

12. Not sure if letting Romney off on a technicality is justified.

There's no mystery as to where the cadets are headed, if they are not actually in the military now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. It is not a technicality and NOT all cadets

end up in the US Military.

[ClusterFreak]

20. True...not all cadets graduate, or perhaps choose another path.

But is it 'not a technicality' simply because you say so? He was talking to people being trained to enter the military...for that express purpose. So, I say the fact that they weren't active duty soldiers on a U.S. military installation somewhere...is a technicality. We can agree to disagree I guess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I guess being subject to the UCMJ means something

different to me than it does to you. So yes, I guess we can agree to disagree.

[Tom Ripley]

29. The bulk of those cadets are headed for the golf course and assuming control

of their family's ancestral auto dealership. Oh, the gentry...

[ClusterFreak]

13. dupe...sorry. n/t

[Zax2me]

15. The cheering was alarming. No one forced them to cheer.

[SpiralHawk]

16. Romney is yet another Republicon chickenhawk

The Republicon Chickenhawks are always whinging and mumbling about ways to further screw up America and our sons and daughters in uniform.

Shut up and serve your country, Mittens.

[Wounded Bear]

26. You're not really familiar with the military life, are you?

Bitching about those in command is a time honored tradition.

:evilgrin:

[kiranon]

27. Did he tell them his sons would never even consider going there or

joining the military as they had "better" things to do?

[Tom Ripley]

28. At an institution founded for the purpose of putting down slave rebellions

[Angry Dragon]

30. Treason