More popcorn. Please.

[McCamy Taylor]

The Republicans have finally pulled out the C word. As in “cult.” As in Mitt Romney (or Mittens as he is known at Free Republic) is a member of a “cult” more commonly known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or the Mormons.

A Texas pastor introduced Rick Perry at a major conference of Christian conservatives here on Friday as “a genuine follower of Jesus Christ” and then walked outside and attacked Mitt Romney’s religion, calling the Mormon Church a cult and stating that Mr. Romney “is not a Christian.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/us/politics/prominent-pastor-calls-romneys-church-a-cult.html?src=recg

So what, Democrats may ask. We are accustomed to seeing our candidates savage each other during the primaries. Think of 2008, when Edwards was called a “loser” and Clinton was called-----no, better not go there. Three women just won the Nobel Peace Prize. We are way beyond calling women whores, bitches and cunts, no matter how aggressively they campaign to be the next Big Dog.

Since the typical Democratic presidential candidate is a lot like a bull moose in heat (I have this on good authority from Hunter S. Thompson), tossing out the C word probably does not sound like much. But it is. For decades, the Republican Party has had an unwritten rule---primary candidates do not savage each other. Never ever ever. Bush Jr. broke this rule back in 2000 when he accused McCain of having an illegitimate Black love child. Right before a Southern primary.

Now, another candidate from Texas is proving to be just as nasty. Rick Perry does not intend to let his six (count ‘em, six) Super Pacs go to waste. If he has to (have a surrogate) drag religion into this battle for the future profits of the oil and coal industries, he will do it. And we can expect Romney to give as good as he gets. Perry has provided him with so much ammunition.

Hmmm. No one has brought up the fact that Perry protected pedophiles in order to protect his own chances for re-election in Texas. Maybe it is time to introduce the P word. And I don't mean pizza.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/rick-perry-juvie-record-texas-youth-commission

[SpiralHawk]

1. The Vanilla Thrilla (R)

As Cain (& probably Abel, too) might very well say of this unGawdly brouhaha...

Which Repubbie has the MoSt OmniPoTenT diety? Stay tUnEd...

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nc4bo]

2. Why are they so afraid of Romney? nt

[mdmc]

7. I think he has the support of the grown ups

those that see the writing on the wall -- Obama will be hard to beat and Perry is Bush-lite.. Romney is the one to beat..

[nc4bo]

11. Could be interesting to watch them all eat each other alive.

I also think Obama will be difficult to beat, I don't care how many bogus polls M$M throws out there.

[baldguy]

10. Because he's comparatively sane.

[deacon]

25. Because he's a guaranteed loss in their minds. The tea party hates him and the fundie christians

won't vote for him. He removes two of their most important factions from the voting booth. They want someone nominated that will energize the nuts.

[Honeycombe8]

28. I don't think they're afraid. Mitt is the "Kerry" of the Repub. Party....

the moderate, safe, establishment choice that the far right have come to hate, esp since they went for McCain, another safe establishment moderate, in 2008 and lost.

It's like far lefters not wanting a moderate, safe, establishment Democratic candidate in 2016, esp since they lost with one in 2004. And why they went with Obama in 2008...he was not the establishment candidate.

I think people are getting tired of settling for the middle, esp when they don't win!

[defendandprotect]

40. Battle between far right, radical right, openly fascist right - but Romney did win Mass ... !!!!

Figure that one out -- and I think there are Mass people who weren't too disssatisfied

with him !! Faced with a Romney saying he'll protect Social Security and an Obama who

has put Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid "on the table" --- he may look like the

moderate in 2012???

I don't know how anyone could vote for Romney --- ever!


Meanwhile, Obama is our problem and he has, imo, done harm to the Dem Party in removing it

from staunch support of Social Security into a very questionable area in ending the COLA's

and in undercutting Social Security's funding which puts the program in jeopardy -- and in

putting it on the table for cuts and "reform" -- !!!


Quite a muddying of the waters where we once had some clarity -- and we now have SHOCK and AWE!

[SoCalDem]

30. I don;t think they are afraid of him..they loathe him

He's everything the new/improved? republican party is not.

He "knows stuff"
He speaks in modulated tones
He combs his hair like a mid-century grown up man
He's rich and really does not need them all that much
He's Mormon
He's not a rootin-tootin cowboy/rebel/ne'er-do-well/rambunctious/cocky guy


He's Al Gore


Republicans like their candidates mean, obnoxious and stupid.

[mdmc]

3. Are Catholics in a cult?

I wonder where this will end up..

[trumad]

5. I say they're all cults.

Christian exceptionalism....gotta love it.

[3waygeek]

14. Michelle Bachmann probably thinks that...

at least her pastor is on the record as having said something to that effect.

[rurallib]

15. to many of the evangelicals, they are.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Depends On Whose Asking The Question...

Yesterday Tweety had Frothy sanctorum on and asked him if he thought Mittens was a "christian". Ricky punted at first...and it wasn't until Tweety pushed him he made the obligatory "well if he ways he believes in jesus, he is a christian"...with all the enthusiasm of a wet noodle. Remember, you're dealing with orthodox and fundamentalists on all sides here...all sure they're the "true" religion. So...to answer your question, I'll bet Parry's Texas hitman would think the Pope's the Anti-Christ. Yet another reason the rushpublican party will self implode over the next year...

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. To evangelicals yes...

and they are not christian either.

[meow2u3]

27. No, but Opus Dei is a cult

Rick Santorum is an OD member. There you have it.

[defendandprotect]

36. True -- but Opus Dei is a "cult" approved of and honored by the Vatican ... !!!

Perhaps mainly because they came up with the billion or more required to

buy out of and cover up the Vatican Bank scandals?




Btw, beloved Pope John XXIII of Vatican II/democracy for the church, tossed

Opus Dei out of the church -- and after the coup on him and a number of other

Popes, the RW'ers brought back Opus Dei.

[grantcart]

34. The fundamental dividing line for Christians is the Nicene Creed.

In 325 the council at Nicene started with a confession that was aimed at bringing a central unity to the definition of what Christians believe and don't believe.

At that time the threat to what is now conventional Christian thought was the Gnostic Christian movement.

The Church was sufficiently threatened by its popularity that it sought to define a very specific Christology (begotten not made, and so on)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed


So while we can't say where it will end we know where it started, in Nicene in 325.


Mormonism which did start as a cult no longer has those attributes but is a 'sect'.

Technically it is a 'Christian Sect outside of the historical Church;.

That being way to complicated for most fundamentalists they simply call it a 'cult'.

BTW many funamentalist super churches operate in a way that while may be true to the Nicene Creed in a superficial way in fact operate much more like a Christian Cult. Pot calls kettle sort of thing.

[defendandprotect]

37. "Mormonism which did start as a cult no longer has those attributes..." --

Disagree strongly with that -- any religion that has secret hand shakes/signals among

hierarchy of males is a "cult."

They're all male-supremacist -- the Vatican still doesn't even acknowledge the full

personhood of females as it acknowledges the full personhood of males!

And, btw, this Pope has made very clear that he is moving the Catholic Church to Evangelicalism!


The Mormons still insist that females are too spiritually inferior to be able to

deliver themselves to salvation/heaven -- and therefore they are dependent upon their

husbands to call their name after hubby gets to heaven!

Often not clear where this leaves unmarried women and women who are divorced from hubby -- !!???

[grantcart]

42. the essential qualities of a cult are not secret hand signals

but manipulation of adherents to personally favor the leader of the cult.

Almost without exception these include sexual favors, monetary gain, disciplined adherence to leaders dictates.

All of these were central to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

They are not relevent today.

If Mormonism is a cult, who is the cult leader.

Groups that start out as a cult can morph into a sect, but there is significant distinction between the two. Today Mormon adherents, even with their desire to keep part of their practices secret are not operating to further the pleasure, power or profit of a cult leader.

[defendandprotect]

47. Mormon Church hierachy is, of course, the cult leader -- !!

Any system which denies its members the right to free thought, personal conscience --

the highest privileges of a democracy -- is a cult -- !!




And "cult" is not as complicated as you are making it --


Cult | Define Cult at Dictionary.com

1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or ...

Cult - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...

Definition of CULT.
1: formal religious veneration : worship.
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents .
3: a religion regarded as ...
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

And from dictionary.com

cult noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

EXPAND

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
9. of or pertaining to a cult.
10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.



Note that Agnostics would have been a "cult" because they taught that Jesus was not a god --

The more powerful church would have at been the more likely "cult" in teaching that Jesus

was a god --

However, power was on the side of the church --

Needless to say all organized patriarchal religion is a cult -- based on male-supremacy.

[defendandprotect]

38. Not only was church "threatened" didn't they kill many of them ... ???

And wasn't one of the dividing lines a still familiar argument -- i.e., that

Jesus was simply a man -- ?

[grantcart]

44. Up until Constantine (312) Christians were the object of murder and persecution

Eventually the Roman Empire converted to Christianity and divided into the east and west.


The Christians would eventually become quite expert at religious persecution but that would take a few centuries.


Ironically the Mormon elders who visit your home would be quick to paint themselves as a 'persecuted religious group' however they went from the victims of persecution to religious murder (see Meadow Mountain Massacre) in a few decades.

[defendandprotect]

48. The Church KILLED the "pagans" and "gnostics" -- did they not?

It was also at this turning with Constantine where much of the Bibical writings

were eliminated -- and where "god" was turned into a Roman warrior --


Re the Mormons -- with 9/11 being an inside job by White House "Christians" -- and

with more than 1 million Muslims dead in Iraq, looks more like the Christians have

won the all time award for religious "murder" --

[Ikonoklast]

45. Baptists won't say it out loud, but they believe it.

To many evangelicals, absolutely, the RCC is The Whore of Babylon.

[defendandprotect]

50. This Pope has announced he is moving the RCC to Evangelicalism .... !!

Evidently, Evangelicalism pays better -- !!!


Sometime back 20 years or so ago, the Vatican wrote off Western Europe, US and Canada --

and found their new fortunes rising in China and Africa --

Democracy -- freedom of conscience -- free thought and personal conscience -- are the

enemy of organized patriarchal religion.

[obxhead]

4. As if their cult that commits acts of mock cannibalism every Sunday

is any better. :eyes:

[trumad]

6. Those damn wafers

always stuck to the top of my mouth. Had to wash it out with the blood of Christ....

[nc4bo]

9. Hey! I like red wine!!

:rofl:

[Honeycombe8]

29. It was really little cracker wafers and grape juice (but shhhhhhhh). nt

[malaise]

8. I'm lovin' it

What's more Obama's religion was challenged so Mittens' religion is fair game.
:popcorn:

[TheCowsCameHome]

12. Nothing like a food fight in the insane asylum.

A thing of beauty.

[mother earth]

13. An entertaining group for sure, and this is their best.

:popcorn:

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. MEBBE somebody should clue the Pastor in

religions are cults by definition...

There I said it... especially the fundie type.

[Mosaic]

19. Romney is dangerous

Not because he's part of a silly cult. He is recruiting Dumbya's worst necons to work for him. It was on Maddow last night, find a clip if you can. We can not allow this man to become president. He is not a good man, but a stupid man who would allow the neocons back to use American power for EVIL! We MUST stop him, period.

[defendandprotect]

39. Agree -- but certainly wouldn't suggest that Summers, Geithner are any less dangerous!!

[nradisic]

20. Circular firing squad...

cue 1,2,3...morons...

[bongbong]

21. I want Cain to win the nomination

Then we could watch all the wingnut & teabagger heads explode as they realized they had to choose between two African-Americans for prez.

Barack "I just LOOK like a right-wing-dem" Obama vs. Herman "Black Walnut" Cain.

[LibDemAlways]

22. It's amazing to me how seemingly oblivious Cain is to the

fact that the R's will never nominate an African-American. His interview with Lawrence O'Donnell the other day, in which he spoke of his non-involvement in the Civil Rights movement back in the 60's, was a revelation. He apparently thinks if a person ignores racism it will go away. When the R's go to the polls in the primaries, Cain is going to learn very quickly that he's aligned himself with a group of folks whose closets may as well be full of white sheets.

[Boojatta]

24. Fox News could simply tell viewers that he's white.

They swallow everything else. Why not that?

[jberryhill]

51. Some Freepers think Obama might be white...

...which is why the birth certificate is a forgery. Obama is trying to hide the "fact" that it says he is "white" and that the "first black president" is a sham.

[jmowreader]

54. Freepers still believe in the "one drop theory"

Obama has more than "one drop" of African blood in him, so no thinking freeper (okay, they think of horseshit half the time, but still...) would ever believe Obama is trying to hide the word "white" on his BC.

[jberryhill]

57. "thinking freeper"

snort.

[oldbanjo]

26. Thats what I can't understand, the Tea Party is racist,

why would he be stupid enough to think that he would get their support. Maybe the thinks they will sell out for money, they can be bought.

[Honeycombe8]

31. He's in it for the fame and money. It's a surprise to him, too, I'm sure that he's doing so well.

But that just means he'll get MORE fame and money after the primary is over.

He's not campaigning right now. He's on a book tour.

Huckabee became a mega millionaire after running and losing early on. It's a path to riches, if you can get some backers & stay in for a little while and get some traction.

[defendandprotect]

41. However, Cain is of some value to the party, even if symbolically -- and then there's Clarence --

Thomas who has been paying off for them as an AA "Judas" --

presumably raking in enough to keep him happy ...

Ginni's Heritage job/salary couldn't have been RW payoffs at all, could it?

:evilgrin:

And I'd remind us all that secret Swiss bank accounts are a threat to democracy!

[greymattermom]

23. the Mormon cult thing

is a tenet of Southern Baptists and won't go away easily. They have been teaching this for years and need to because Mormonism appeals to many of them and Mormons spend a lot of effort trying to convert people.

[Honeycombe8]

32. I watched a tv documentary about cultism once. A deprogrammer, I think.

He gave the elements of being a cult. Its definition. One of those defining elements is something like, "Keeping its members away from family or friends, unless they join, also." One of the things about, say, the Jim Jones cult, was that, after a person joined, he was instructed repeatedly to shun his relatives who were not in the cult, and finally, forbidden to communicate with them.

Another thing a cult does is it takes control of the person's children. That is a primary thing. A cult leader or a deprogrammer once said that if you can discipline a child in front of its parents, then you know the programming is complete. You own them.

The Mormons don't do either of those things, as far as I know. So it's not a cult, as far as that definition goes.

[defendandprotect]

43. Basically, any male-supremacist religion is a "cult" -- and certainly Mormons with

their secret handshakes among male members is a qualifier ---

They also teach the spiritual inferiority of females -- that females are incapable

of securing their own salvation -- i.e., the only way they can get to heaven is by

the calling of their name by a deceased husband --



:eyes:

[Honeycombe8]

56. Not according to that definition I saw in the documentary. But...all religions

are male supremacist, aren't they? All religions are not cults. By definition, a cult is something outside the mainstream religions.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

35. The Republican Party is a cult. And Perry is part of it, a big, ugly

Corporate funded part of it. It is a cult of death, it is against healthcare for the poor, it is for every devastating wrong war it can find, for profit. It is for torture, it is for the killing of Americans even if there is doubt about their guilt.

I call that a cult. Kill everything and everyone who does not meet their standards for the right to exist.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

52. Christianity is a primitive blood-obsessed death cult.

It goes well with the Republican Culture of Death and endless war.

[sabrina 1]

53. Religion is simply a tool to these people. If they really were

Christians they would be terrified to behave the way they do. They are the antithesis of what the man they claim to be followers of, preached. They are the perfect example of those he condemned. I know lots of Christians and people of other faiths, who are not 'blood-obsessed' or in any way supportive of these people.

People's faith should be their own business. The minute they start using it to justify their actions, it becomes our business when those actions affect our lives. But there is no way the Republican Party of today can be called Christians any more than they could claim to be followers of Gandhi.

I love your Christ, I just don't like your Christians as Gandhi himself said.

[sammytko]

46. They are all cults!

When will religion not matter? Why can't we just elect a person that is good and decent without having to tag them with a religious sign.

[Edweird]

49. Who here didn't see this coming?