Americans, don't even think about getting high anywhere in the world!

[sixmile]

Says Lamar Smith (Asshole-TX)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/us-drug-policy-war-congress_n_998993.html

'The House Judiciary Committee passed a bill yesterday that would make it a federal crime for U.S. residents to discuss or plan activities on foreign soil that, if carried out in the U.S., would violate the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) -- even if the planned activities are legal in the countries where they're carried out. The new law, sponsored by Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) allows prosecutors to bring conspiracy charges against anyone who discusses, plans or advises someone else to engage in any activity that violates the CSA, the massive federal law that prohibits drugs like marijuana and strictly regulates prescription medication.'

snip

'Civil libertarian attorney and author Harvey Silverglate says the bill raises several concerns. "Just when you think you can't get any more cynical, a bill like this comes along. I mean, it just sounds like an abomination. First, there's no intuitive reason for an American to think that planning an activity that's perfectly legal in another country would have any effect on America," Silverglate says. "So we're getting further away from the common law tradition that laws should be intuitive, and should include a mens rea component. Second, this is just an act of shameless cultural and legal imperialism. It's just outrageous."

more at link

Big government, indeed.

[Lucian]

1. I'm going to Denmark to get high as a fucking kite.

Whoops. Am I going to jail now?

[sixmile]

4. Quite possibly, yes

And I think Denmark is putting a stop to selling to tourists.

[Lucian]

5. Looks like I may have to get a dual citizenship!

[sixmile]

6. The laws will not be deterred by dual citizenship!

The IR S can get you anywhere for as much as they want.
The government can send a drone to kill you
The Fed controls the flow of money worldwide
Cameras are everywhere
Our tentacles are vast

[Lucian]

8. I'm not worried about the Feds.

If they want to prosecute me for doing something that's legal in another country, I'd like to see them try.

[krabigirl]

17. you can renounce your citizenship but yeah, the IRS will still collect

[bvar22]

76. Renouncing your citizenship can get you on the president's Assasination List

...and rightly so, you dirty rotton hippie traitor.
He don't even need no Stinkin Warrant.

:patriot:



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[peacetalksforall]

15. Are you someone who doesn't believe in the new world order is for real.

Better start seeing the signs, even when they are as bizarre as this one is.

Has anyone run figures on what this will cost to enforce?

Are figures submitted with this?

And don't forget - there is more money to be made in illegal for those who are already at the top.

But, now they will have to pay the leaders of other countries to carry out their share of discovery, proof, paying snitches, enforcing.

Imagine - lawyers flying all over the planet, learning the law of the country, finding translators?

Imagine - US kids and maybe elders being held in pr ions - maybe in some countries it would be the same prison where the CIA conducts torture techniques.

Learn Arabic while waiting - for free from prisoners.

So - what are the costs, how is it enforced, how long does someone sit in prison while another third country like ourself slumber along.


To every one who opens their mouth to cry the Democrats grow the government - shut them up fast.

Numbers needed if anyone has ideas. Please.

Will costs come out of the CIA drug fund-cost center?

[krabigirl]

16. Me too. I mean, I wish.

send me to jail! lol can you say "thought crime"?

[Lucian]

31. "1984" is happening more and more every single day.

[ejpoeta]

2. can someone please explain to me how they can get away with this?

if something isn't illegal somewhere, then how can they impose our laws on americans in another country? this is ridiculous.

[sixmile]

7. Welcome to the promised land

America, fuck yeah!

[TBF]

3. WTF is wrong with these people? nt

[Better Believe It]

9. The Obama administrations attack on medical pot is opening the door to this sort of right-wing crap

[tridim]

10. The "Obama Administration" supports MMJ.

[saras]

14. No. They TALK ABOUT supporting MMJ. There's a gigantic difference - ask California

[tridim]

35. The Obama Administration supports MMJ.

Period.

Until you can show me the redaction memo, you're speaking out of your ass.

[Lionessa]

47. Naive much?

[tridim]

Ahh, so you have seen Holder's redaction memo?

Got a link?

[Lionessa]

62. I absolutely have, but it was top secret and you don't have a need to know.

[tridim]

65. I was in the biz for awhile and I never saw it.

All the hassle where I lived was state initiated. The few dispensaries that closed were breaking state law.

[Lionessa]

69. That was then, this is now. Keep up. There was definitetly about a

six month to a year time frame right after the decision you mention, but over the past six months they've begun inching back into their original stance, and the inching has become yard-ing.

[tridim]

71. Not in my former state.

What "original stance" are you referring to? Bush's?

The original stance of the Obama Administration is that they support legal MMJ. That has not changed.

[eShirl]

56. but politicians always issue Redaction Memos!

:rofl:

[Xicano]

54. LMAO... You're reminding me of Gollum with Obama as your precious!

And

Until you can show me how Obama has backed up his campaign promise, you're the one speaking out your ass.

[sixmile]

57. This thread is being high-jacked!

Misspelling intentional.

[tridim]

60. It's the truth. Which I happen to believe in.

The Obama Administration continues to support legal MMJ.

[Dr Fate]

28. No, Obama's DOJ is threatening to shut down several clinics in the Bay Area.

And rightfully so - after all, Obama is merely regulating them and protecting us.

[tridim]

34. The Obama Administration supports MMJ.

Period.

Until you can show me the redaction memo, you're speaking out of your ass.

[Dr Fate]

43. If by "support" you mean issuing letters threatening to shut them down, then we agree.

I for one hope that he puts them all in jail.

[tridim]

48. No, I mean they support MMJ.

The OP of this subthead is a liar.

[Dr Fate]

53. By having the Feds target medical pot suppliers in CA. I support this, BTW.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2011/10/08/MNGR1LETS9.DTL

[eShirl]

33. ROTFLMAO

[tridim]

36. So do you have a link to Holder's redaction memo?

[eShirl]

39. no; try google

[tridim]

45. There is nothing on Google

Because there is no redaction memo.

Why? Because the Obama Administration supports MMJ.

[eShirl]

49. clue: it's called "hypocrisy"

saying one thing, doing another?

or, also known as "being a politician"

actions speak louder than words

[tridim]

50. What is called hypocrisy? The raids that Obama didn't order?

Or the Google proof that the Obama Administration continues to support MMJ in legal states as they have for 3 years?

[eShirl]

52. show us this "support" - deeds not words

[tridim]

59. Sorry, I can't show you Obama personally erecting a legal dispensary or mancuring legal buds.

But as you know, the Obama Administration supports MMJ.

[eShirl]

61. Perhaps there is some other thing he has done to support MMJ?

Can't think of anything?

[tridim]

63. What do you want him to do?

His AG issued a public statement of their support three years ago, and they continue to support legal MMJ.

[eShirl]

66. How about, oh, anything? You got nothing but an empty, 3 year old broken promise.

[tridim]

68. Name something he could do short of supporting legal MMJ via his AG.

You seem to think it's so simple, name something.

The President is NOT going to toke up on television if that's what you're waiting for.

[eShirl]

70. You just made the argument against yourself; just admit he doesn't support it.

But you can't admit it, can you?

[tridim]

72. I'm not going admit to an accusation that isn't true.

Unless and until the Administration changes its official policy.

[Dr Fate]

51. 8/10/11- U.S. targets pot suppliers. And god bless the US for doing it too.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2011/10/08/MNGR1LETS9.DTL

[tridim]

55. That's not a redaction memo.

It's the same article that has been posted about 100 times on DU in the past two days.

[Dr Fate]

58. It is the ATF, IRS and Federal police agencies cracking down on medical pot.

If Obama opposes all these federal actions, then he can say so.

I hope he supports them.

[eShirl]

64. Sure sounds like Executive Branch policy to me... n/t

[Dr Fate]

67. If we could just give Obama a DEM majority in congress, he would not have to do all this.

But until then, I support these liberal regulations.

[Odin2005]

11. This is what Empire looks like. UGH!!!

[maggiesfarmer]

12. I think the same legal principals were applied to combat sex tourism

the US decided they could arrest American's who committed sex acts with kids outside the US. to be fair, I'm not sure the analogy is 100% accurate b/c I believe that child prostitution is illegal in Thailand, Cambodia, etc... but the laws aren't enforced. however, it seems the underlying legal concept is the same -- the US feels they can enforce their laws on Americans if the American's break them regardless of geography. I have to admit when I heard about the pedophiles getting arrested I had no issues.

[peacetalksforall]

13. If I hear Norquist or any Tea Partier or Newt type crap courier talk about

growing the government - I will scream HYPOCRITES. DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!

[krabigirl]

18. This is a bipartisan bill. and amazingly even some Republicans are against it.

[sixmile]

20. What if I choose to try Ayahuasca in Peru with a Shaman?

This is now illegal because some jagoff from Texas says so?

So much for small government!

[eShirl]

44. if it's a requirement of your religion, it's fine

http://www.udvusa.com/

Religious Freedom, the United States Supreme Court
and the União do Vegetal

On February 21st, 2006 the United States Supreme Court of the United States issued a unanimous decision affirming Religious Liberty in the case of Gonzales vs. O Centro Espirita Beneficente União do Vegetal.

For the previous six years, the United States government had attempted to prohibit a small religious organization and its members from practicing their religion, which involves the use of a sacramental tea, ritually prepared from two plants.

[bhikkhu]

19. How about banning DDT, or child labor, or extend OSHA everywhere for US corporations?

I have always thought it ironic that we could pass laws on safe and humane practices here that apply to US corporations here, and be entirely unconcerned that they were broken everywhere else.

If we can't smoke pot in Amsterdam because we are US citizens, how about US corporations can't hire kids in Vietnam to make shoes for 25 cents an hour?

[eShirl]

37. or TAX COLLECTION

[Capitalocracy]

42. Fully agree...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2081036#2081463

[otohara]

21. Will It Pass Both Houses?

thoughts anyone?

I say no, but someone I know with a bunch of attorneys say yes, and there's big money behind it.

[sixmile]

22. Big Pharma and Big Booze money, no doubt

and BIg Prisons, and Big Surveillance and Big Defense...

[otohara]

23. So Seniors Who Shop Canada

conspiring to buy cheaper drugs will go to jail too?

[sixmile]

24. If they are on the controlled substances list, yes

nt

[RebelOne]

26. Hope not. I get my blood pressure drugs from Canada.

I doubt they are on the controlled drugs list.

[otohara]

30. It's not a controlled substance

But theres a whole bunch of seniors on pain meds

[Dr Fate]

25. Liberals are supposed to be FOR regulations like this. It keeps us safe.

since when are liberals against regulating things? It's part of our history.

Look, sometimes you have to get tough and put lots of people in prison when you regulate- just ask anyone over at BP or on Wall Street.

[Fuzz]

27. Regulations on personal freedom? Not this liberal.

[Dr Fate]

29. We regulate BP and Wall Street with raids and prison sentences so why not regulate pot the same way?

???

[Fuzz]

73. If you honestly don't see a difference between the two no explanation I can give will satisfy you.

[unblock]

38. you have a warped definition of "liberal".

liberals do allow sensible, effective, and necessary government regulation to the extent that it is reasonably balanced against the rights and liberties of its people.

liberals to NOT believe in supporting any cockamamie, idiotic, ineffective, civil liberties curtailing, orwellian act of government overreach some grandstanding politician feels like proposing.

are liberals supposed to support a law that would require us to never leave our homes?
are liberals supposed to think there's a point to a law that lets everyone in the world except americans do certain things in a foreign countries?
are liberals supposed to think that a government should be able to control acts beyond its borders? what exactly is a "border", anyway, except a boundary to a government's jurisdiction?

[Dr Fate]

40. You did not have a problem when Obama raided and jailed all those BP CEOs.

Now do you see why these busts can be progressive?

[unblock]

74. what on earth are you talking about?

all obama did was put pressure on them to set aside funds to compensate victims.
none of obama's actions, afaik, were the result of law enforcement of any kind, just political pressure.
and this was in a situation where bp's actions did direct and significant economic harm to specific individuals in the u.s.


this is a world apart from any argument that an individual american tourist's purchase or use of a single dose of what in the u.s. is a controlled substance does direct material damage to any particular people in the u.s. in fact, one could argue that moving american demand to a foreign country HELPS americans by pulling the drug trade AWAY from america.


your argument boils down to "liberals like SOME laws; ergo, liberals like ALL laws".
sorry, but this is completely comical.

[Dr Fate]

75. I am talking about centrist/ progressive regulations that are working. Nt

Nt

[sfpcjock]

32. They don't like big government, just Big Brother. nt

[Faux pas]

41. LOL they have no control here, how're they going to police the

world? Oh wait, never mind.

[NNN0LHI]

46. High? People stare at me like I have a needle hanging out of my arm when I light up a cigarette now