Trying to get Wall Street to act morally is like trying to stop people from being promiscuous or

[dkf]

having an abortion or drinking too much.

I guess you can scare the other side with a mass demonstration but I am not sure it works.

What does work is changing the laws and enforcing the laws. But if you want to enforce laws you have to find violations and if you want people thrown in jail they must be criminal violations.

[Electric Monk]

1. Try thinking of OWS as an intervention, if that helps

http://www.aetv.com/intervention/index.jsp

[dkf]

3. Interventions only work if people want to change.

And shame doesn't seem to work nowadays.

[blogslut]

2. Mass public expressions from the people convince legislators

...to change the laws.

See how that works?

Nobody is trying "scare" anybody. The fear comes from those who know they are in the wrong.

[dkf]

4. Then this is a protest against congress? I can go with that.

Maybe they should state that as a goal.

[Bluenorthwest]

5. You should go join the General Assembley and add your

input to the event. It is democratic, and your voice would be heard. Who deregulated the financial industry? Congress and the Executive Branch. Everyone knows that.

[dkf]

7. I'm a Deaniac...always.

If Howard pushed into this fray I'd be with him and I know he knows about healthy and unhealthy practices.

But I'm not into crashing the system or revolution and I'm not sure where this movement is.

If I got involved I would need to trust and know who is leading it. But I'm always enthused about good governance and would lend my support and financing to whoever I feel embodies what I am looking for.

[Electric Monk]

8. Howard Dean, Dems And Unions Back Occupy Wall Street

http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/occupy-wall-street-goes-mainstream-democratic-politicans-inch-toward-support

"I've been waiting for something like this to happen," Howard Dean, former Democratic National Committee chair and governor of Vermont, told The National Memo. "Wall Street is an institution that is not serving the country well. Because of their financial practices, money's not getting invested in the long-term creation of jobs. They basically have turned Wall Street into a gambling casino. Credit default swaps, about 95 percent of that is speculation. So I'm glad to see all these young people on Wall Street."

He suggested the protesters were law-abiding citizens who deserved to be heard, and that we might see additional Democratic Party backing in the future. The Wall Street protests speak to the massive and growing gap between rich and poor in this country, Dean argued, and the political class ought to take notice.

[dkf]

14. I love Howard. I really wish he could get involved to turn this into something concrete.

It is definitely true that things need fixing but I don't trust most people to get it right. I think he could. Hating Wall Street is too simplistic. It needs to be boiled down to specific abuses that can be fixed and that make measurable differences. And the worst of it isn't the taxes, it's all the other stuff that is a lot more complicated than that.

The thing is if people really understood what was going on they would be even more outraged. Too much of Wall Street has set itself up to game the system. Regulators need to be the smartest and most vigilant guys out there to keep people on the straight and narrow.

But i feel Wall Street does serve a purpose that is necessary to our system. I think that is what Howard and Obama and I believe and what some protestors do not. Those who see no use for our system are the people I do not feel comfortable aligning myself with.

[lunatica]

10. So if Dean says it's OK you'll believe it?

You can't decide for yourself?

[Bluenorthwest]

11. My personal take on the OWS events is that such that I'd say

if you support Dr Dean, you would be prone to support what they are doing. They are pretty clear about what they are seeking, it can be easily found and read or even heard read out loud. By Keith Olbermann, on TV. They do not have a sound bite. But they are very clear.
Here is a link to KO reading the declaration. http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/special-comment-keith-reads-first-collective-statement-of-occupy-wall-street

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Darn. i was thinking this was a picture thread.

When you go to your local occupy event, be sure and post some pictures.

[dkf]

9. I think I was once in the local paper protesting Bush lol. I called him a liar.

That was probably the end of that as I got comments from all the relatives who were not very enthused... Not respectful you know.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. My sister didn't approve of me at a corner near her house protesting against the war

Didn't stop me though. I kept going back. It was actually somewhat of a motivator.

[dkf]

15. I'm a product of my culture.

Shame is a big deal for us. I have to admit I didn't even understand why they felt that way when I got those comments, but out of respect I have since refrained.

[Cal Carpenter]

13. When Wall Street has unlimited access

to those who change and enforce the laws, those laws will never work to the benefit of the rest of us, not in any lasting way.

The only way significant change has occurred in our history has been through mass demonstration.

We need to look at history, both in the US and globally (as power has become concentrated on this level as well) and see what has worked. We need to look around the world now and see what, if anything, is working in other places.

Waiting for the politicians who work with and for the 1% is going to get us nowhere. They aren't going to suddenly 'change and enforce laws' to insist on moral behavior among the uber-wealthy.

Getting Wall Street to act morally through legislation isn't the goal here, as far as I can tell. In those terms, the goal would be impossible because our economic system rewards greed and exploitation. We need a system that doesn't reward such behavior, an economy that works for and by the people, and we need a political system that will do the same.

OWS is the beginning of a very long fight (or in other terms, it is the rekindling of a movement that has been crushed in this country in the past and virtually silent for decades). In itself, it may accomplish nothing obvious, time will tell. But it is starting a conversation, people are connecting the dots, class consciousness is being discovered.

[dkf]

16. Politicians aren't voted in by 1%.

Maybe in the end this is a protest against our fellow Americans who lack interest in finding good public servants.

[Cal Carpenter]

17. The politicians we get to choose from are

those who will support the interests of the 1%.

Our so-called democracy involves a BILLION DOLLAR presidential campaign budget for 2012, according to estimates.

It could not possibly be more direct a connection. Money buys access. Candidates who raise the most money, by supporting the interests of those with the most money, win nearly every race. It is embedded in our electoral system, and it has recently been even further codified with the Citizens United decision.

Finding good public servants? It's virtually impossible on a local level, let alone in Federal government.

We need to let go of the the myth that we live in a politically democratic country. Without economic democracy, it simply isn't possible. Pretending otherwise has gotten us here, where the gap between the rich and poor has widened to unprecedented levels, and the number of people at the top are shrinking while the ranks of the poorest grow and grow.

This is happening nationally and internationally, and it transcends our national political system.

[leftstreet]

18. Capitalism is a structural problem, not a moral one

People are starting to figure that out

[Cal Carpenter]

19. Exactly

It took me about 7 paragraphs to try to say that, you've said it so simply :)

[Edweird]

20. Remember how AIDS killed a bunch of people and chilled promiscuity?

I'm thinking something like that but with guillotines and heads on pikes. Bet it would slow their booking for quite some time.