Violence is not a symptom of schizophrenia.

[Cetacea]

I think it's worth repeating this.


Schizophrenia and Violence

People with schizophrenia are far more likely to harm themselves than be violent toward the public. Violence is not a symptom of schizophrenia.

News and entertainment media tend to link mental illnesses including schizophrenia to criminal violence. Most people with schizophrenia, however, are not violent toward others but are withdrawn and prefer to be left alone. Drug or alcohol abuse raises the risk of violence in people with schizophrenia, particularly if the illness is untreated, but also in people who have no mental illness.

Schizophrenia and Jail

The vast majority of people with schizophrenia who are in jail have been charged with misdemeanors such as trespassing...


Link: http://www.schizophrenia.com/szfacts.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Thank you

They are actually more of a danger to themselves than to others.

[ananda]

2. Schizophrenia is strongly associated with violence.

I think that a violent society and family contribute strongly to incidences of schizophrenia
and the way that manifests, which can be violent.

[Cetacea]

3. I wonder if Americans with shizophrenia are more violent

than others?

[H2O Man]

8. No.

The OP is correct. People with major mental illnesses are far, far more likely to be the victim of a violent crime, than to commit one.

Within the cluster of schizophrenia disorders, it is only one small group -- the paranoid schizophrenics -- that have an association with violence. Because of the nature of the media, those relatively few cases of violence always make the "top of the news." Hence, people mistakenly associate schizophrenia with violence.

[Cetacea]

10. Thank you.

Given the statistic you correctly I wonder how much of the violence is self-defense?

[H2O Man]

9. Strongly, but

incorrectly.

[Odin2005]

25. That's BS.

Schizophrenia is a developmental disorder, associated with abnormalities in the maturation of the pre-frontal cortex in one's late teens and early 20s.

[steve2470]

33. Sorry, but you're wrong

If that were the case, the MILLIONS of diagnosed schizophrenic patients in the USA would be wreaking daily havoc.

[dkf]

4. As a population they may not be more prone to violence, but those are the attacks that are strange

and land up being front page news.

In the last maybe 10 years, there have been 3 scary local cases all linked to Schizophrenia:

http://www.kitv.com/r/18913891/detail.html

"A Honolulu grand jury indicted 25-year-old Tittleman Fauateaon on one count of second-degree murder in the fatal stabbing of Asa Yamashita.

According to court documents, Fauatea bought a foot-long kitchen knife at the Longs store at the Ewa Town Center, walked off without his change and then repeatedly stabbed Asa Yamashita.

KITV has learned Fauatea is a diagnosed schizophrenic. He was found mentally unfit for trial last year after a trespassing arrest. (Read more about his past in an exclusive KITV report.)"

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2008/01/27/news/story04.html

"HONOLULU -- Court records show a 23-year-old man being held in connection with a triple murder in Honolulu had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He was also put under the court-ordered guardianship of his mother and a caretaker less than a month ago.

In the petition seeking guardianship, Adam Mau-Goffredo was described as "incapacitated."
Honolulu police charged Mau-Goffredo with killing three people at the Tantalus lookout, an act they called "senseless and heinous.""

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2000/06/01/news/story1.html

"Doctors have testified that Uyesugi, who killed seven of his Xerox co-workers, suffers from a delusional disorder, schizophrenia and paranoia. "

----
http://www.kitv.com/r/22575959/detail.html

Here are our normal murder rates...

15 in 2009, 18 murders in 2008, 19 in 2007, 17 in 2006, 15 in 2005 and 26 in 2004.

[JonLP24]

22. One thing that should be noted

Is that stories featuring the mentally ill and are often over-reported. Much more than a "sane" person committing a violent act.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. And the news loves to reports acts of violence regardless of who did it. "If it bleeds it leads."

[NNN0LHI]

5. According to the Ph.D. linked below schizophrenics don't generally go out looking for trouble

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/adventures-in-old-age/201101/dont-jump-the-gun-diagnosing-the-arizona-shooter

Don't Jump The Gun On Diagnosing The Arizona Shooter

Are media psychologists more than high-concept "gossipologists"?

Published on January 9, 2011

Oops! Perhaps that was an infelicitous expression, in light of the shooting in Arizona, but less infelicitous than some of the off-the-cuff, armchair diagnoses from my colleague psychologists.

And I'll throw myself on the mercy of the court of public opinion by pointing to the attention-getting quality of "Don't jump the gun." After all, the main point of our media is to grab attention, and rely on psychologists to be useful and willing fools.

When I looked at the alleged shooter's You Tube postings, I predicted to myself that someone is going to publicly diagnoses Jared Loughner as a paranoid schizophrenic, and, sure enough, only hours after the shooting, I read this in Andrew Sullivan's blog, "The Daily Dish," from the Atlantic:

"I'm a licensed psychologist with 20 years experience. I've watched the Jared Loughner Youtube videos. They show evidence of delusions of persecution. Loughner's less than coherent language also suggests a formal thought disorder. While Loughner can't be diagnosed without a full exam conducted in person, there are significant indications in the videos that he suffers from a psychotic disorder. snip

Sure, he or she pays lip service to the idea that an in-person exam is required for a diagnosis, but this doesn't prevent a full-blown diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. As an aside, this leaves out the fact that schizophrenics in general, as well as paranoid schizophrenics in particular are too disorganized to organize premeditated, multi-step acts of violence. In fact, paranoid schizophrenics tend to isolate themselves and more likely become violent when they feel their personal space is being violated. They don't go out looking for trouble.

[spanone]

6. shhhh america has deemed this man insane...though he's yet to be diagnosed with anything

as if that somehow absolves him of any political views

[Kurovski]

12. Best point yet.

Media very much wants to define what went on, and what it means.

[steve2470]

7. k and r nt

[Bjorn Against]

11. Thanks for bringing this point up...

Having grown up with a brother with paranoid schizophrenia and two parents who worked in the mental health field I am very familiar with the effects schizophrenia can have on people, and it is far more complicated than most people realize.

It is true that schizophrenia can trigger violent behavior in people, I personally saw it happen with my brother before he received proper treatment and medication. That being said however it is also a fact that the vast majority of people with schizophrenia are non-violent and pose no threat to anyone. The bottom line is that people with schizophrenia need access to treatment and if they don't get treatment the potential for violence may exist, but that does not mean that people with schizophrenia are more dangerous than other groups of people. We have to remember that most violent crimes are committed by people who do not have schizophrenia, so while we may sometimes hear about acts of violence that are triggered by schizophrenia we have to put those acts in the context of all violent acts committed in the United States. When you look at the issue in context it is clear that the mentally ill population is no more dangerous than the general population despite the few acts of violence that do happen.

[affrayer]

13. I know you won't believe this...

But there is a very good chance that what caused the violence was his medication.

While it hasn't been released to the public, I'll bet he was on one of the many serotonin manipulators like "prozac."

What that medication does is attempt to keep the body from producing adrenalin BUT it also prevents the body from shutting off the production of adrenalin as well. Which is to say that once the body begins to produce adrenalin, it doesn't stop. If you remember Columbine, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold used to get high off adrenalin rages caused by such medication. And while those medications only cause such rages in a very small fraction of those who use them, the violence associated with such episodes is alarming.

Another example of this was twenty-three-year-old Seung-Hui Cho who stopped taking Prozac which also resulted in a massive adrenaline rage.

What are you going to do? Maybe as many as 10 to 15 million people are helped by such medication. So the handful of those who go off the reservation is relatively no big deal. Besides, we're talking about tens of billions of dollars in drug sales and you know how money talks...

[DawgHouse]

14. I was wondering about this as well. n/t

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cetacea]

16. Thank you mods

I got rense confused with snopes.

[bobbolink]

17. Thank you for bringing up that important point.

That's why the popular useage of "off their meds" is soooo very wrong. There are often very bad effects that NOBODY would willingly tolerate.

It is so sad that there is still so much ignorance, and I appreciate you taking on one small part of it. :yourock:

[GreenPartyVoter]

That's true. "Off their meds" can easily actually be "on the wrong meds" or "on the right med but

wrong dosage" or "on the right med but added a new one to the cocktail that reacted badly."

I know. I've been there.

Life for me is generally better on my meds, but I did go on one that absolutely freaked me out and got the docs to finally realize that I am suffering from bipolar and not straight depression.

[bobbolink]

35. Thank you for your courage in adding your experience. It is DISGUSTING how people talk about things

they know nothing about!

It is much more complicated, and people making judgements like that does unspeakable damage.

I also know that in many cases, "meds" are the wrong approach to begin with, and EVERYONE should be given the opportunity to work out their issues without "meds".

That basic right has been taken away.... for profit.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. For profit and for ease. There isn't nearly enough affordable opportunity, for example,

for people to get good counseling. My minimum requirement is to meet with my psychiatrist for 15 minutes, 4 times a year. More often, though, if there are med changes or complications. But we don't have time to delve into anything other than the meds. I am fortunate enough to be able to see a counselor once a week, but maybe for some people that's an impossibility, or once a week wouldn't be enough.

[bobbolink]

37. What you are outlining is disgusting, and why so much failure is attributable to the "profession"

I could go on a diatribe, but ......

............most people just don't want to hear.

A system that makes people MORE dependent, instead of helping them to know themselves, is beyond pathetic.

Beyond cruel.

It is EVIL.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. This is the minimum requirement at a county health center, and I think a lack of

staffing and funding is a big part of the reason why some people can't get more than just the minimum requirement.

To be fair, though, when I was on Medicaid I did also get to see a very helpful psych nurse and counselor at the same place. My financial situation changed causing me to lose the medicaid, and thus the access that I had to those services.

[bobbolink]

39. The richest country in the world can do better... much better.

We cannnot settle for less.

People deserve much better.... homeless people who need homes, and ill people who need care.

As Michael Moore said in SICKO... "Who ARE we?"

[H2O Man]

20. First, he would need

to be taking medication. I do not think that the public is aware if he has been, or not. Second, there are people who have reactions to certain medications, although it might be more of a risk if he were younger. A person who is treatment resistant, and thus more likely not to take medication as prescribed -- especially stopping without a doctor's okay -- might also have some increased risk factors. Finally, if he had been taking prescription medications, and also took medications or street drugs not being prescribed, it could also be a potential risk factor.

What we can be certain of is that a non-violent person will not react violently to a medication.

[LisaL]

26. What we know so far is that

"Preliminary examinations of state mental and behavioral records show Loughner was not a patient or client and had not requested any such services, said Paul Senseman, communications director for Gov. Jan Brewer."


http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/01/13/loughner-absent-in-mental-health-check.html

[affrayer]

28. Not necessarily in this case...

What Prozac does is interfere with the biological mechanism that produces and distributes adrenalin in the body. Not only does it attempt to prevent the initial distribution but in the process it also prevents the shut off mechanism as well. Which means that once adrenalin starts being pumped into the body, it doesn't stop until it is completely depleted.

For some reasons children are more likely to over ride Prozac like medication and initiate adrenalin production which is why medicines like Prozac have very strong warnings against prescribing them to children. However, adults can also override the Prozac block and dive into an adrenalin rage as well.

Granted Prozac is often prescribed to reduce "violence" by controlling adrenalin production however it those rare cases where it is not, it can also cause the violence...

[LisaL]

23. And I bet you are way off.

There is no information he had been diagnosed with anything let alone treated with any medications.

[affrayer]

29. True

All we have so far is a history of depression and disturbing behavior...just what you would expect to see if he was being "helped" with Prozac.

Just consider this:

http://www.truebooks.com/prozac.html">THE SHOOTING DRUGS -- PROZAC and its Generation EXPOSED on the Internet

Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Serzone, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin, and even Ritalin (amphetamine for kids) have cropped up at the crime scenes of so many school shootings, suicides, workplace massacres and other callous killings, that NO ONE can deny the truth any longer:

SSRI drugs actually cause people to kill, without feeling remorse, often with a smile, saying: "Sorry, but you deserve it." This horrible truth is HARD to accept, especially for the news media, and the few people who may benefit from them.

[TorchTheWitch]

40. this is nonsense

Prozac and other equivalent SSRI's and MAOI's increase serotonin levels for the treatment of depression and anxiety. Increased adrenalin is the CAUSE of anxiety, so you have it backwards in thinking that they prevent the body from shutting off adrenalin production. They are extremely effective when prescribed and taken correctly. I've been taking an MAOI for over 20 years for panic/anxiety with depression disorder and couldn't function without it. My mother, my sister and one of my brothers have taken SSRI's for years as well and couldn't function without it either. These medications are a GODSEND to those of us who suffer these debilitating mental illnesses as long as they are prescribed and taken correctly and not doled out like candy to people who don't need them or need something else. Additionally, aggression and violent tendencies are caused by a REDUCED amount of serotonin in the brain, not an increase.

These medications are NOT for the treatment of schizophrenia which is likely what Jared suffered from (specifically paranoid schizophrenia). Paranoid schizophrenia is treated with antipsychotics, not SSRI's or MAOI's. The older antipsychotics include meds like Haldol or Thorazine, but they could cause side effects that resemble the more difficult to treat symptoms. The newer antipsychotics such as Zyprexa, Seroquel, Risperdal, and Abilify are much more effective in not producing these sort of side effects.

Further, it's most likely that he wasn't taking ANY medication for any mental condition and probably was never diagnosed or treated for any mental condition, which would have been the problem... LACK of treatment. He also self-medicated with recreational drugs which likely made his mental condition that much worse.

[bobbolink]

18. Its so sad that these basics still must be brought up. I appreciate your efforts in this.

People just parrot what they hear, all the while criticizing the media for other stuff, and don't want to change their opinions. So many DUers who are dealing with any part of this have tried to raise the awareness, but still the ugly comments continue.

Thank you..... I am happy to give this the 5th Rec.

[cali]

19. absolutely correct. thanks for posting this.

[JonLP24]

21. Hey Cetacea

I've been quietly reading your posts the last week or so and I really appreciate your comments. I hope you keep posting. Everything you've posted is stuff I've been thinking, and you say it better than I ever could of.

K&R.

[Odin2005]

24. Thnak you! The bigotry towards the mentally ill on DU is disgusting.

[bobbolink]

41. Absolutely. There is big need for a justice movement right here on DU.

And today would be a good day to start it.

[old mark]

27. Most people with the disease are not violent at all....nt

[Raven]

31. I have 2 nephews with the disease. Neither one has ever been violent.

Both boys have been under treatment for years. One responded very well to medication and holds a good job and has a family. The other did not respond as well and lives in a group home. There are a lot of misconceptions about this disease.

[steve2470]

32. kick and rec nt

[WilliamPitt]

34. 'Tis truth.

25% of people with schizophrenia get better. 25% get worse. 25% stay the same.

25% kill themselves.

It's in my family, in Technicolor. And those are the numbers.

The OP is correct.

[TorchTheWitch]

42. schizophrenia is not the same as paranoid schizophrenia

It's paranoid schizophrenia that may cause a person to have aggressive and violent tendencies. The bigger problem, however, is lack of treatment. Most people who suffer from paranoid schizophrenia aren't aware that they are because they believe their delusions are real. It almost always takes someone else to recognize the symptoms and encourage the person to seek help or they may be forced into seeking help. And unfortunately, the longer the condition goes untreated the worse it is likely to become, therefore, aggressive/violent tendencies will increase or become present when they weren't present before the longer the person goes without treatment.

There are very good medications (antipsychotics) that can be very effective in controlling both schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia which combined with therapy enable a sufferer to lead a normal and happy life. One of the biggest problems, however, is that they all produce side effects some of which can be very unpleasant, which can lead to patients stopping their meds on their own (believing that they no longer need them because they aren't having the symptoms anymore)... which means the symptoms will return. A solid network of people around a sufferer is almost always necessary in helping to initially get the person into treatment, recognize when it is likely the person stopped their treatment and get them back into treatment.

On the plus side, compared to other debilitating mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, bi-polar disorder, etc., schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia have profound and sometimes frightening symptoms others will recognize as existing whereas those who suffer debilitating depression, anxiety and other mental illnesses can be effectively hidden from others. For this reason, someone suffering from schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia will more likely be noticed as having a problem needing treatment than most other mental illnesses, and therefore, more likely to be encouraged or even forced into treatment.