If the Seal Beach guy is guilty of that incredible mass murder . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . I still do not support the death penalty.

The state has NO RIGHT to kill anyone.

Anywhere.







And here's a corollary: If the state can elect to kill someone, why can a person not elect to kill oneself?

[itsrobert]

1. If?

No "ifs" about it.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. I am 3,000 miles away. I only know what I hear on the teevee.

From what I hear, I also think he did it.

But it is "if" until a court says otherwise, don't you agree?

[Zax2me]

13. No. Of course not. A court is a judicial process. He did it.

He was guilty the second he committed the murders.
Eyewitnesses who know him and identified him as the shooter are proof he is guilty.
It doesn't take a court to do that.
It takes a court to prove him legally guilty.
Legally no one can lock him away for life as guilty YET - but anyone can correctly say he is guilty based on what we now know. As long as you aren't speaking for the govt or as a rep of the judicial process.

BTW - The state takes his life, I'm not losing sleep.

Too much life/innocence in this world to stay busy defending, not worrying myself with saving those doing the killing.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I agree...

He might be innocent due to insanity...

But he certainly did kill those people.

[Kennah]

4. Technically it would be not guilty by reason of insanity.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. Of course you're right...

[Kennah]

3. Agree, Disagree, Concur

I agree with you in opposing the death penalty.

Disagree, I believe, over killing anywhere. What about cops acting in defense of self or others?

Concur that people should be allowed to commit suicide, but I'm not sure I want it completely unfettered.

[canetoad]

6. Yep, too many grey areas

That are impossible to sensibly legislate. Agree with euthanasia when it's a considered decision, not when it is abused for financial advantage. Such a shame that so many in society cannot be trusted to make ethical decisions.

[FarCenter]

8. In this case there is no question that he did the murders

Pass the blue juice.

[flvegan]

9. Oh come on, man. Revenge feels gooooood.

It's the only reason the death penalty exists. Revenge. Almost as bad (or maybe worse?) than whatever motive the Seal Beach guy did.

Something for folks to think about.

[pecwae]

15. And it brings back the dead.

Truly, those high fiving the DP in any case, in any case, needs to get in touch with their inner humane and contemplate what it actually accomplishes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Who says people cannot elect to kill themselves? n/t

[Mimosa]

11. They do all the time.

And are not criminally prosecuted for the attempts.

[malthaussen]

12. In Respect of your Corollary:

There are a couple of points to be made. The legal position would be that the State is empowered to do certain things which individuals of the State are not empowered to do, except as servants of the State. Hence the State (or more strictly, an individual acting on behalf of the State) may elect to kill, but the individual does not have that right.

As it happens, unless my information is outdated, only in the State of Oregon (in the US) is an individual granted the right to kill himself, and there are sundry restrictions and regulations to make it a non-trivial process. In most States (both of the US and in nation-states) if an individual tries to kill himself and succeeds, he obviously cannot be prosecuted, although any accomplices may be, but if he tries and fails he is subject to corrective action, usually in the form of confinement to a mental institution for a greater or lesser period of time on the grounds that he is a danger to himself or others.

The Stoics were of the opinion that it was licit for a man to kill himself if life became unsupportable. You have not solicited my opinion, but I happen to agree. Regrettably or un, that is one precept of Stoic doctrine that Western society has chosen to refuse.

-- Mal

[pansypoo53219]

14. death is easy.

life in orison is harder.