Barney Frank said the OWS had to get political. It IS political...non partisan, bipartisan

[madfloridian]

They should be careful what they wish for.

It is just exactly what the centrist leaders of the Democrats have been asking us to become. From day one after the election in 2008 their think tanks took over the media begging us to be "post-partisan". The DLC preached this to us.

From day one after the 2010 election they did the very same thing. Be bipartisan, they said. Be post-partisan. Don't be divisive. Work with the other parties, they warned us. The Third Way may be taking over the preaching, but they are saying the same thing. Be bipartisan.

The very heart and soul of the OWS movement is that it is SO not partisan. It is standing for human things, for the very things both parties forgot years ago in their quest to please the moneyed interests who finance them.

I listened to Barney Frank and his concerns tonight on Rachel Maddow's show. He simply seemed not to have a clue that this movement may shake the foundations of this country's so-called two party system.

It wasn't just Barney Frank who angered me today.

Earlier today I read some words from a Democratic leader in Central Florida. He said that Democrats nationally were not pleasing the conservative Democrats in Florida. I wanted to scream when I read those words. I have heard them before in our area. This article is about the 3rd DEC leader to resign in disgust in just a few years at the inability to change and move ahead on issues.

The words that angered me are down further in the article.

Two Polk Democratic Party Leaders Resign From Executive Committee

Dean Saunders of Lakeland, a former Democratic member of the state House, said there is another reason the leaders have been unable to get any traction locally: the national Democratic Party stands.

"Polk County is a very conservative county," said Saunders, who is still a registered Democrat and considers himself a strong conservative. He is not a member of the executive committee.

"They (Democrats) have lost relevance in Polk County because the national party's programs are not shared by most voters in Polk County. They are shared by some, but not by the majority of people who go to the polls to vote," he said.

"If your store is closing down because nobody is buying anything you are selling, there is not a motivation to get out there and work," Saunders said.

What this fellow is saying is that he thinks we need to go more to the right to get the votes from the most conservative right wing groups in Florida....the Tea Party. That will never happen, but he keeps on thinking that if we do the same thing we will get a different result. There's a name for that.

This is the area of Florida in which the DLC first took wings and took over. From a post from 2008 about the Democratic convention of 2000. Here are some words from the Democratic chairman from this area at that time.

Florida Dem Chair at 2000 DNC convention..."The DLC is the wind in our sails"

Making his way through the Florida delegation, for example, he's greeted by the state party chair, the head of the state DLC, and a gruff lawyer from Lakeland named Bob Grizzard. Defiantly wearing a t-shirt from Clinton's 1992 campaign over his checkered oxford shirt, Grizzard tells me he's a "proud member of the DLC." When I ask him about the prominence of liberal speakers on the convention docket, he says, "We're the party of diversity and inclusion," then pauses before adding, "and if they don't want to swallow DLC, we'll stick it to 'em." A minute later, he grabs the shoulders of an African American delegate and pulls him over. "He's not quite with us yet," Grizzard confides to me jokingly, "but we'll give him time." Grizzard's friends are a little embarrassed by the gesture but share his triumphalism nonetheless. "The DLC is the wind in our sails," says Bob Poe, the state party chair."

Not much has changed. A lot of us tried in 2003 and 2004 to make change. We gave it our very best. Now it will be left to younger folks to do what needs to be done.

I will never forget in 2004 how one of the Kerry advisors as much as said of the activists in the party....

Steve Elmendorf

"The bloggers and online donors represent an important resource for the party, but they are not representative of the majority you need to win elections," said Steve Elmendorf, a Democratic lobbyist who advised Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign.

"The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left."

Blogs attack as Dems reach for center.

He advised using us to reach their goals, but keeping a distance from us as we really don't reflect the desires of the party leaders.

Peter Ross Range wrote in the DLC Blueprint in 2002 about how our anti-war energy harmed the party. I can't find the article but I saved the quote from Liberal's War.

"My liberal friends are quick to point out that the left's chief grievance is with the war in Iraq, not the war on terror. But what does it do for the image of the Democratic Party -- not to mention the thinking of rank and file Democrats -- when some of our most skilled commentators use a moment of unambiguous terror to first find fault with an American policy (unseating Saddam Hussein) rather than first condemning the terrorists? It's both morally wrong and politically dumb. These musings in the left-wing blogosphere may be read regularly by only a few thousand people, but they seep into the intellectual bloodstream of the Democratic Party. They once again place Democrats on the wrong side of the ultimate issue of our time: winning the war on terror."

We truly have "seeped" into the party bloodstream now, Mr Range....in a very large way. AND it's just what you guys wanted....it's bipartisan!

Things have not really changed much since then. They need us at election time, but then they at once go back to pleasing their corporate donors.

I love Barney Frank, and I know he meant well. But I do not believe he understands just how really really political this OWS movement is becoming.

They wanted bipartisan, they got it. This movement has nothing to do with parties.

It is about people and their needs and about what it will take to save our country from its "bipartisan" leaders.

This movement is not about our party. It is not about President Obama. They wasted two years in the majority treading softly, fearing to anger the extremists on the right.

In those two years wonderful things could have been done. They should go down in history as a time in which change could have happened and didn't.

[Enrique]

1. I hope Rachel mentioned Frank's closeness to Wall Street

by which I mean campaign contributions from them.

Absolutely relevant given that one of the messages of OWS is Wall Street's influence in politics.

[begin_within]

2. Is it bipartisan, non-partisan, post-partisan or anti-partisan?

[madfloridian]

3. Take your pick. I added non-partisan. Dem leaders have said not to be partisan.

And they acted like pleasing the other side was more important than standing for things humanity needs.

So take your pick, any or all. Non-partisan fits in the subject line, thanks.

[sabrina 1]

67. It is non-partisan. Both parties have failed so

at this stage, the movement first needed to grow strong enough to have the people on board, which has happened in a far shorter time than initially imagined.

The whole system if broken and works only for the top 1%. All of it has to change, and that can only by done by people who are not beholden to Wall Street.

It is NOT about US getting on board with THEM, it is a question of whether or not they want to get on board finally with the American people. If they do, they will refuse all Corporate Funding as a first step.

[bertman]

4. They want us to be ANYTHING BUT Populist. REC. nt

[lunasun]

78. history shows they try to squash populist by one party 'claiming their movement

[Dragonfli]

5. It may well "get political" as the start of an ACTUAL populist labor party

Since Democrats appear to have adopted the same Straussion economic goals as the the neocons,
those on the left will have to either become begrudging corporatist and support them hoping to teach Keynesian economics to those that refuse to learn (in my opinion a quixotic adventure).

Else we will finally have to face the fact that the party we have been trying to bring back to it's former glory of standing for the people, their rights and their livlihoods has now finaly after all attempts to revive, died on the table.

It is now a corpse propped up next to the Republicans to maintain the illusion of a choice. Even if the corpse wins it will only be used as a vedntriliquist dummy for banks , oil, and military talking points.

We have to stop holding up the corpse like some political version of weekend at bernie's. and admit that we must gather together in the wilderness and ally ourselves with the Unions the workimg poor and the poor and begin the work of forming a party that will stand for what Democrats once did, revive the platform of FDR and give it not lip service but support and expression in legislation submitted by a third party, The son of the Democratic party so to speak, now that it has died and left us with simply another Republican alternative, it must be reborn or be lost to history.

The Corporate political employes have stolen our name for their abomination. So we will be forced to choose a new one, perhaps Labor Party, or just go with the Socialist Democratic party.
It will take time, but we are getting nothing but Reagan and worse from the corpse right now, so we have finally reached a point where we simply have no other options left to us except to breathe life back into the principles and ideas that fought back the last assault of the super wealthy.

If we just go along to get along with either party all we will get is neo-feudalism.
I prefer to fight for the only ideas that brought shared prosperity and a moral and secure nation.

The corpse is dead, any more time spent on it is time spent on our own destruction. They will only bring us third world wages without security, a land where only the ultra rich can know security and joy.

If this fails, it will only be a matter of time before the hungry and sick that can not get help will explode in numbers and then explode in bloodshed. Once the rich prince said "let them eat cake" or more precisely, "let them eat peas", they stopped hiding the green skin of the corporate corpse as the stench became too pungent to continue to ignore.

[concord]

73. I like Labor Party, or even Populist Party, not Socialist Party

Too much history with "Socialist" that would cloud the issue.

What would be wonderful though is to be able to resurrect the Democratic Party ... replace the Alan Colmes corpse with a vibrant visionary with heart, backbone and intelligence.

[Dragonfli]

74. There's not enough left of it to resurrect IMO, it has been taken over by Third Way (AKA Republicans

[Blue_In_AK]

6. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I thought Barney Frank sounded whiny and petulant on Rachel's show. If they had been so concerned about the rising Tea Party activism in 2009-2010, why didn't they come out clearly in favor of progressive ideas, regulating banks, etc. etc. etc., instead of continually caving to the demands of the right? People have had to get loud and out in the streets to get them to even notice us.

[madfloridian]

8. You are right. They haven't noticed us at all. Now they do.

They just don't know what it's all about. Clueless.

[myrna minx]

38. Thank you. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard him chastising the people in the streets,

thus proving the point that the Dems loathe their own supporters or people that *may* consider supporting them. They seem to feel entitled to votes on the left, still coasting on the principle of "where else are you going to go?" contempt. I couldn't believe how tone deaf he was, while dripping with condescension.

[lunasun]

79. Been doing this with minorities a long time already

[Billsmile]

7. The Movement is a Populist Movement

The Democratic Party isn't out for the people, it's out for the Democratic Party.

[madfloridian]

26. Good point.

:hi:

[4dsc]

35. The Democratic party LEADERSHIP isn't out for the people

Its the leadership within the party that's making us weak, not the liberals within the party that want change.

[drexelhillbilly]

9. Re: Barney Frank

Barney said a few things that tells it like it is. His main message was "where the hell were all these people in 2010, when we really needed it and getting clobbered by the teabaggers". The second message that stood out was "unless these people vote, the only pressure they will be making is on the grass!".
I worked for almost a year as an unpaid volunteer for Obama/2008. I did this with the strong belief that the real reason we ended up with two terms of George Bush was that not enough people voted. They voted in 2008 and sat on the sidelines in 2010.
If you don't vote, you get the government you deserve and all this "bipartisan" crap happening since since 2010 is what you bought.
Having met with voters in 5 states, I have found the conservative Democrat to be a strange one to deal with and often wondered why we even try to connect with these people. Polk County sounds like such a place.

[Blue_In_AK]

10. I don't know about the rest of the country,

but not one person I know who voted for Obama stayed home in 2010. Up here we were busy trying to elect a good Democrat, Scott McAdams, to the Senate, but instead the centrist Dems gave us Lisa Murkowski again. We could have beat Joe Miller if Lisa and her money hadn't gotten in to it.

It's always the money. ALWAYS.

[madfloridian]

12. And in FL the DCCC pushed out every single progressive candidate.

In ways not so subtle.

[madfloridian]

11. Trouble is...

After the two years of giving in to satisfy the other side, much spirit and energy was lost.

Maybe they can convince us in time for the next election that we are treasured by our party.

[ldf]

13. welcome to du!

obama got tons of new voters to the polls in 2008, who were expecting real change. many young voters, who were cynical about the whole process, and many older cynical voters who had hopes of there FINALLY being real change. they believed the slogan.

then obama raised his arms and parted the seas......and basically gave the republicans everything they wanted, taking everything of essence off the table before negotiations even started. he was bipartisan to a fault, caving at every opportunity.

can you blame people for sitting at home in 2010? we were taken. if you sell people a bill of goods and turn right around and spit on them, you get what you deserve.

so now he needs another term to get anything done, when the jobs bill should have hit congress a week after he was inaugurated. without jobs, NOTHING is going to work. any idiot should have known that. no jobs, no money, no economy. DUH!

yes i will hold my nose and pull the friggin' lever. but the stench is becoming unbearable. and i am all out of patience.

[Jim_Shorts]

20. Ditto, including "welcome drexel"

My thoughts and energy are with OWS - I have given up listening to Obama, he can give his bla bla speeches, I don't care.

“We get to choose the rhetoric and manner in which we are deceived and disempowered. Nothing more.”—Chris Hedges!

[Bluesbreaker]

31. Why should they support the Democratic Party?

Barny Frank and the majority of Democrats are enablers of Wall Street. Frank in particular is a tool of the financial industry and apologist for the big banks, like his Senate counterpart Charles Schumer. The Obama administration is staffed by Wall Street types, from his chief of staff to his treasury secretary and economic advisors. OWS, in case you hadn't noticed, is focused on taking control of the country back from Wall Street. Why would they support Democrats, from Bill Clinton to Barack Obama, who have turned over our government and economy to corporate interests.

[Remember Me]

62. what politicians and their supporters (like you) need to understand is this --

NOT voting IS a vote -- it's a vote for "none of the above."

It's a vote for "let's have more relevance, meaning, truth, reliability, accountability, credibility, integrity, and so forth and so on, in our politics AND our governing or count me out."

When people feel marginalized, ignored and totally UNrepresented by the people proposing to be their representatives, it's no surprise the people say, "Uh, no thank you."

A vote is a resounding YES for someone, not an "well, I really hate everything you are and stand for, but I hate the other guy more, so, okay, I'll give you my sacred vote." No, doesn't work that way for a good many Americans.

[newspeak]

65. you relinquish your right when you do not vote

do you think these politicians really care if you vote? Especially if they are both being fed from the same trough? some of the one per centers, corporations are hoping we don't vote. when we all become so apathetic about voting, then it just may cease to be a right.

We need to put our full support behind those who will represent us. Put our money and our energy, even if it goes against the established DLC's candidate.

[Remember Me]

77. I'm not advocating not voting, I'm explaining it. So don't lecture ME.

And don't tell me what "WE" need to do.

And no, politicians don't care. They and corporations want us NOT to vote, else we'd have had the voting problems fixed by now. See the book, "Why People Still Don't Vote."

[mikeburetta]

14. elections matter

Frank is right! If we just scream at the air n say we don't like s... it wont change a thing. If were going to change anything its gotta be a starting place to electoral politics. Demonstrate yes but get folks to vote too! Throw the bums out n get our own in. Find someone to run in a primary or even run yourself. Change doesn't come by waving a magic wand its hard work door to door with your neighbors!

[madfloridian]

16. Actually we did that in 08.

This movement is not about Democrats now.

[deutsey]

17. +1

Frank really doesn't get it.

[madfloridian]

24. Few of them do.

Hi stranger. :hi:

[Umbral]

19. Yeah, elections matter, unless you elect the largest democratic majorities in a lifetime...

then. all you can expect is tepid policy making and outright capitulation, mostly in the name of bipartisanship. Democrats earned the rout of 2010, Obama earned the loss of the House and that sizable chunk of the Senate. If they expect to make any political gains off the situation today, they had better not try to tout the steaming pile of mediocrity that was the 111 Congress.

[dkf]

15. Likely voters believe OWS will hurt Obama.

A plurality believe that the Occupy Wall Street movement will hurt Democrats and Obama in the 2012 election. Even those whose sympathies lie on the left of center seem unsure about the likely political repercussions. Just half of all liberal likely voters — the group most likely to blame Wall Street for the recession — and fewer than half of all Democrats believe the protests will help their side next year.

http://thehill.com/polls/187837-the-hill-poll-voters-say-dc-worse-than-wall-street

[kctim]

47. That can't be

OWS claims to represent ALL of us.

:rofl:

[Warpy]

18. It's 100% centrist, cutting across all those lines the plutocracy drew

to keep us apart, including the party line.

That's what they all need to get, Frank included. Anyone who ignores this stuff and tries to do business as usual is going to get kicked out of office.

[JVS]

23. It isn't partisan, but I don't think it is centrist at all.

I've seen no evidence of centrism, and in general the people who are supportive of this are on the political left, while those who scoff at this are on the right. The reason it can be non-partisan but not centrist is that the center is already occupied by the DLC and the "moderate" (i.e. business oriented) republicans. It can assert leftist values without being partisan because those leftist values no longer are viewed as being connected to the democratic party.

[Warpy]

45. Excuse me?

Look at public opinion polls one of these days. Wanting Wall Street barons who crashed the economy punished is a majority opinion. So is wanting the richest taxed. So is resentment that the banks got massive bailouts on our backs and just pocketed the money, refusing to modify mortgages and throwing people out of their homes. That's called CENTRIST.

You're still thinking of pundit centrist, halfway between Democratic conservatives and right wing lunatics. That's not centrist, it's fascist.

The occupiers are dead center on economic issues. Wake up and smell it before it's too late.

[JVS]

51. Being against wall street barons is a leftist position no matter how many support it.

The death penalty is very popular in this country too, that doesn't make it a centrist position, it is a right wing position.

OWS is nearly universally hated on the right. And I use nearly here only because there might be exceptions of which I'm unaware. I guess you could say the Ron Paul freaks don't hate OWS, but they're already the black sheep of the right and they love anything where they can get publicity for Ron Paul.

[ClassWarrior]

72. "Centrism" is a fantasy. A myth. A word with no meaning.

It's a trap set by Radical RWers. Why do you think they tell us to chase "centrist" voters, yet fail to take their own advice?

No Center, No Centrists
by George Lakoff

"Centrism" is the creation of an inaccurate self-serving metaphor, and it is time to bury it.

There is no left to right linear spectrum in the American political life. There are two systems of values and modes of thought -- call them progressive and conservative (or nurturant and strict, as I have). There are total progressives, who use a progressive mode of thought on all issues. And total conservatives. And there are lots of folks who are what I've called "biconceptuals": progressive on certain issue areas and conservative on others. But they don't form a linear scale. They are all over the place: progressive on domestic policy, conservative on foreign policy; conservative on economic policy, progressive on foreign policy and social issues; conservative on religion, but progressive on social issues and foreign policy; and on and on. No linear scale. No single set of values defining a "center." Indeed many of such folks are not moderate in their views; they can be quite passionate about both their progressive and conservative views.

Barack Obama has it right: Get rid of the very idea of the right and the left and the center. American ideas are fundamentally progressive ideas -- the ideas this country was founded on and that carry forth that spirit. Progressives care about people and the earth, and act with responsibility and strength on that care...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/no-center-no-centrists_b_60419.html

NGU.

[Maven]

66. I agree with you.

It is a leftist movement that has become necessary precisely because there is no party that represents the left. That there may be supporters of the movement who don't consider themselves "left" does not make the goals themselves "centrist," if one were even to acknowledge centrism as an actual ideology, which it isn't.

[Raksha]

84. OWS is centrist in the sense that it represents the REAL center,

not the phony politiccal "center" between the right and the far right corporatist parties. This is the "center" that believes the rich should pay more in taxes and the we should have single-payer health care (provided you don't call it socialism), that was against NAFTA and all subsequent free-trade agreements and detests outsourcing. You know, THAT center that never seems to get polled, or gets asked all the wrong questions when it is. These centrists are also known as populists. It's true most of them are on the left these days, but there are a few on the right.

[apocalypsehow]

21. Barney Frank's answers during that segment were spot-on, and I was glad to see his voice heard. n/t.

[madfloridian]

25. He's a good man.

Unfortunately the populace is disenchanted, and they need to understand it is political.

[Bluesbreaker]

32. He's okay on social issues, but . . .

when it comes to economics, he's a tool for corporate interests, especially the financial interests.

[Kitsune]

22. What a fucking tool that man is.

"You protesters aren't doing anything, you should have done something in 2010!"

Says the man from the party that did absolutely shit with supermajorities for years on end.

And then he has the gall to ask us to vote for him. I can't have been the only person screaming mad at him after that interview. Talk about out of touch...

[MindPilot]

27. I was trying to make sense of what he said.

It seemed a little incoherent (especially since I was laying on the couch fighting to stay awake after a huge meal) but mostly what I got was a theme of blame the victim, this is all your fault, and we should just be saying "thank you sir, may I have another?"

[Raine]

29. No you weren't the only one, I was screaming mad too...

You're right he showed himself just to be a tool. I will never trust anything he says ever again. :argh:

[newspeak]

60. I voted in 2010

but by 2010 I was also disillusioned with the party. Obama's cabinet choices was a WTF moment. We were in financial crisis, I was praying for a FDR moment, not keeping the status quo-not going along with some of little boot's policies and sycophants. I thought he'd be cleaning house, by keeping little boot's retreads it was either going to be pushing some of the same shite or he was setting himself up in a precarious position with these loyalty clones at his back.

Where were we in 2010? Many voted, but some maybe "saw the writing on the wall." We can vote all we want, but it won't change who really controls the government, unless we expose all that is behind the curtain, including that sorry mcpravda corporate media.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. A meteor has struck the planet and promulgated a new K-P

boundary event. Buh-bye DINOS and Democratic Party. Welcome to the dustbin of history.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_movement_too_big_to_fail_20111017

[girl gone mad]

30. Pretty much. n/t

[haikugal]

33. Barney showed his ass last night...

[NNN0LHI]

34. Under the bus for Barney Frank I see

Never thought I would live long enough to see that happen at DU. Used to only hear this kind of stuff from baggers.

Lot of people seem unable to distinguish their friends from their enemies.

Does someone think he is trying to hurt us by telling the truth?

Don

[David Sky]

39. Most insightful comment in this whole thread. I've never seen so many people on here

that trash Barney Frank. Of all people to trash!

I guess many DU folks here don't bother to know any facts and just get on the bandwagon with the bongo drummers and think they have done their part!!!

[madfloridian]

40. I did NOT TRASH Barney Frank. I gave my views of what he said.

That kind of comment is why we are where we are today. I consider your post an insult to me and others who care about this country and its people.

Any government that fears criticism so much is doing things they should not do.

[David Sky]

Deleted dupe

[David Sky]

Deleted dupe

[David Sky]

42. Then you don't have a scintilla of understanding of what Barney Fank said!

If you feel insulted by my comments that's YOUR choice. Why do you think I singled you out? I did NOT!

I don't intentionally insult people who are simply ignorant of the historical facts, that's their choice to feel insulted and not bother to do the work of getting the facts.

Banging bongo drums on Wall Street, even getting arrested, making signs, whatever, does NOTHING, unless there's a political follow-through at the polls. If you or others feel that you don't need to vote to make changes come about, that's your mistake. That's what Barney Frank was talking about. History bears him out, as recently as the 2010 elections!

[madfloridian]

55. "people who are simply ignorant of the historical facts"

I remember so well the 60s. I remember the bongo drums from then. Did they matter, did the crowds matter? Views will differ.

Your view of it all is about people not doing anything to keep Democrats from being elected it seems.

I always vote, always have.

I do not like being told I am ignorant of historic facts when I am well-educated and totally aware.

Talk to the Democrats who negotiated away their majority in the first two years. Hubby and I donated and campaigned hard for Obama. I have a right to speak.

Barney was talking about far far more than that. He made Rachel uncomfortable also. He was expressing discomfort over the visibility and numbers.

This is not about the Democrats. It is about survival.

[haikugal]

63. Well said. I was surprised by his remarks.

Then I realized he's just speaking for the establishment. Still, like Obama, he disappointed.

[Enrique]

46. the chair of the Finance Committee when the crash happened?

Any accountability for him? Step down as chair? Resign his seat? Get primaried?

No, of course not. Some people are even under the impression that we shouldn't even criticize him. "Of all the people..." Why? What's so special about Barney Frank? Because he goes on TV and gets some zingers in on the "bad guys"? Barney Frank is on fire! He really nailed the fundies! Meanwhile his campaign donors are picking our pockets.

[deutsey]

69. +1

[Enrique]

44. more truth

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=Career&type=I&cid=N00000275&newMem=N&recs=20

CAREER PROFILE (SINCE 1989)
Top Contributors
Representative Barney Frank

Contributor Total Indivs PACs
Fidelity $108,050 $76,050 $32,000
American Bankers Assn $85,450 $3,800 $81,650
National Assn of Realtors $84,742 $5,700 $79,042
JPMorgan Chase & Co $83,500 $8,000 $75,500
Human Rights Campaign $78,251 $2,250 $76,001
Bank of America $69,500 $22,500 $47,000
American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees $65,500 $1,000 $64,500
American Assn for Justice $62,500 $0 $62,500
Laborers Union $59,750 $0 $59,750
State Street Corp $58,200 $52,500 $5,700
National Assn of Home Builders $53,000 $0 $53,000
Credit Union National Assn $52,000 $0 $52,000
American Institute of CPAs $51,359 $0 $51,359
Securities Industry & Financial Mkt Assn $50,996 $0 $50,996
New York Life Insurance $50,250 $14,750 $35,500
UBS AG $48,100 $23,100 $25,000
Brown Brothers Harriman & Co $47,000 $47,000 $0
United Food & Commercial Workers Union $46,948 $0 $46,948
Liberty Mutual Insurance $46,000 $11,500 $34,500
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $44,850 $0 $44,850

[concord]

71. Wow, I had no idea this data was available

Suddenly I feel like I'm in first grade again. Thank you for providing the link. It's THIS DATA that will help make things clear to those who do not understand why OWS exists.

I'm off to do some data mining :)

[dionysus]

49. it's just the disgruntled former democrats of DU throwing the usual tantrums.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

56. "disgruntled former democrats of DU throwing the usual tantrums."

Now you are labeling?

[dionysus]

57. as they say, if the shoe fits...

[DonCoquixote]

36. Florida's democratic party

Seems to be concerned with Helping the republicans at every turn. Just think, Alex Sink is running for governor, and the democrats are considering Charlie crist...Yeah, you heard me right. Even DU fell for him thinking he was the alternative to Rubio.

[PeaceNikki]

37. It *IS* clearly partisan. Here in Wisconsin there is a clear delineation of good and evil

and it's right along the party lines. The whole non-partisan talk is total bullshit. GOP=greedy one percent. We've been teabagged.

[madfloridian]

41. What is clearly partisan in WI?

Did you refer to the party or the OWS? Not sure I understand. If you wish I can find quote after quote from the national party leaders urging bipartisan, post partisan.

[PeaceNikki]

64. OWS and all it stands for.

[David Sky]

43. Love that GOP definition! I think you've got it!

[Skidmore]

48. It is political by definition, whether or not the movement is affiliated with

a party.

[Hubert Flottz]

50. Rachel had Barney spinning in his boots...

Barney was in total cover your political ass mode.

I wonder how many of the 99% don't trust those vote counts and ESS vote counters anymore. I'm one that don't.

[xchrom]

52. sour grapes, barney. you really don't wear them well. nt

[ecstatic]

53. Why does common sense bother so many people here?

Frank is on point. You get out on the streets occupying wall street, but then you either don't vote or vote third party, ensuring republican victories. It doesn't make any sense!

[dionysus]

58. it's just the anti-democratic sentiment many people here have, is all.

DU used to be pro democratic, not so much any more.

[madfloridian]

59. I wrote the post. I always vote. I have common sense.

I told how I felt when Barney Frank implied these folks were not voters.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

54. I watched that and was very saddened by Frank.

He asked where we all were the past few years and I say to him, "Dude, we were here -- fighting, contacting our reps, contacting the President, trying to "make you do it" as requested -- but we were being IGNORED." Three years of being ignored produces what you see -- thousands of people in the streets. We did it your way: elected a Democratic President, Democratic Senate, and Democratic House of Representtives -- you're the ones who pissed that opportunity away. :shrug: You have forced us to try something entirely new. Get onboard or get out of the way.

[lunasun]

80. You have forced us to try something entirely new.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the same result
Time for some new experiments

[madfloridian]

61. Yes, I vote. Yes, I know history. No, I don't "trash" people. Not anti-Democratic.

So many assumptions made.

[PatrynXX]

68. Barney's usually fun to listen to but last night WTF was he talking about

OWS isn't really left wing. It's not right wing either. It's the jobs wing.

You can tell they aren't being divisive by trying to persuade the cops even as the cops have the batons. I'd rather get hit by a baton frankly that whipped by my own dad which he did when I was younger. Thats to say .... wanna know something absurd? I had tight slacks on back then. They'd cause me to itch in my crotch. However dad and I guess he told the Pastor this so I looked bad... (minus 14 yrs old) that I was masturbating in the church. I found this out about 3 years ago during an argument. Say I'd been dealing with that since I was 11. How the fuck would I know about masturbating at 11?? Pretty much messed up my life really. I blame getting OCD on what spurred that on. If you have tight pants on how do you itch down there? So I would obsess about it. and I'd see that look in church. He'd switched to the metal end by then. so whats a baton. Want blood? Yeah I could stand to sue more for police brutality than taking out the metal end of a belt when I'm too young to figure out what jacking off meant. Sorry for the vent. It just hit me thats all.

[Marnie]

70. I like Barney but it is evident that in this case he just doesn't

get it.

Most Americans aren't political, thank God.

The statements being made, the opinions being expressed are not political. The party that best responds to those stimuli will get the most votes from people who do "get" OWS.


It is not for the demonstrators to adopt a political party, it is for a political party make the effort to represent OWS.

The Dims have to earn it first Barney, the OWS ers are not looking to settle for the usual politial sleeze and nudge nudge, wink wink.

[midnight]

75. The interesting thing about OWS is that it has moved ahead of the polititions...

[madfloridian]

76. Way ahead of them.

And very quickly. :hi:

[lunasun]

81. and across borders Global turn out

[MrSlayer]

82. I agree with Barney Frank, all the screaming in the world is meaningless if we don't vote.

What do you think will happen to the movement if one of those Republicans get in? I think it will make Kent State look like a walk in the park. All this protesting needs to be translated into the voting booth. Get rid of the Republicans and Blue Dogs, put in real Democrats. If the idiot Teabaggers can get fools like Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell in position to run for Senate, surely we can get people that share our views the same way. Let the Democrats worry about the 99%ers the way the Republicans worry about the Teabaggers. You cannot effect meaningful change by protesting alone. This movement MUST get political. OCCUPY THE VOTING BOOTH!

[madfloridian]

83. Where did I say not to vote?

Frank is assuming those OWS folks are not going to vote. He does not know that.

[MrSlayer]

85. You didn't.

I apologize if you took it that way. I was just backing Congressman Frank's position that OWS must reflect these things on election day. And it's foolish to lump every single Democrat in with the blue dogs. I see a lot of this in the OWS. We have a lot of great people in the House, people that don't deserve to be lumped in with the riffraff. The Senate is much more iffy but there are many reliable Democratic votes there as well. The entire Republican Party is against the goals of OWS so they're out of the picture. We already have a lot of people on our side in the Congress, the Democratic Party is the only party able to co-opt the ideas expressed by the Occupiers and they would be smart to do so.

[JVS]

86. It works the other way too: All the voting in the world is meaningless if we don't scream.

In fact we need to do more than scream. We need to denounce, reject, shun, and cast out parts of our party that are looking for votes but not offering change.

[MrSlayer]

87. Agreed.

I participate in my local Occupy and one point I stress is that there has to be a political solution, else we're just pissing in the wind. A lot of people tell me they refuse to participate because the whole system is corrupt and we need to start something new, which is not going to happen. We can't afford to be naive. A new form of government is not going to spring out on its own but we can effect change from within.

[Marnie]

88. As soon as OWS gets political is limits itself to being either a

puppet of the Repubican power elite,like the teabaggers and the Koch bros., or of the Democratic party.

At that point it literally ceases to exist.

All OWS is asking for for the leaders of this country, from city to national, to do what is right and what is best for all of the people of this country.