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Alternative "Medicine" -- The Illusion Of Control

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 11:01 PM
Original message
Alternative "Medicine" -- The Illusion Of Control
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/10/alternative_medicine_the_illusion_of_con.php?utm_source=networkbanner&utm_medium=link

"We humans like control. Actually, we need to feel as though we are in control. Perhaps that's why, when we aren't in control--can't be in control, for whatever reason--we instinctively seek ways of being more in control, or at least of feeling as though we are in control. I've often wondered if providing the illusion of control is part of the reason for the appeal of quackery alternative medicine, or, as it's become known these days, "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) or "integrative medicine" (IM). That, and the human need for certainty.

Think about it, taking cancer (my specialty) as the prototypical example. What do those nasty, reductionistic, science-based doctors tell a patient when confronted with a patient with cancer? Even for an early stage, eminently treatable cancer, we rarely use the word "cure." We speak in terms of five- and ten-year survival and percentage chance of relapse. We almost never, ever tell a patient that we can definitely cure them. That's because pretty much all of us have been gobsmacked and saddened by cases like that of a woman with a 1 cm breast cancer with no lymph node metastases, favorable histology, and positive estrogen receptor status who came back three years after apparently successful treatment with stage IV disease. The frequency of this sort of thing may only be in the single digit percentage range, but if you see hundreds of patients a year you will see a few of these patients every year, and you will be humbled. Even more humbling is when a patient asks me what caused her cancer. As much as I can pontificate on the molecular and genetic derangements that are associated with cancer, how cancer cells escape the normal controls that keep normal cells in check, only growing when they're supposed to and then stopping, when it comes to the question "Why?" I can never tell the patient what it is she really wants to hear. That is the cause of her cancer and whether there was anything she could do to prevent it. In most cases, the answers are, to the patient at least, maddeningly vague and hand-waving.

Contrast that to the quack. There's a famous saying about surgeons, "Sometimes in error, never in doubt." With quacks, the saying should be, "Always in error, never in doubt." However, it's that "never in doubt" part that can suck in patients who are normally skeptical and hard-headed rationalists in other areas of their lives. For instance, when a quack like Tullio Simoncini tells patients that cancer is a fungus and that treating it with injections of sodium bicarbonate (i.e., common baking soda) straight into the tumor will cure it, a surprising number of patients believe. Ditto the late Hulda Clark, who proclaimed that the cause of all cancer is a common liver fluke and that she could "zap" it with her "Zapper." Indeed, she even proclaimed that she had the "cure for all cancers." Never mind that as a piece of technology her Zapper looked less convincing than a Scientology E-meter. Or take Robert O. Young, who tells patients that the cause of cancer is "acidity," that cancer is actually a reaction to cells "spoilt by acid"; and that they can cure their cancer by "alkalinizing" their body with a special diet and, of course, supplements. Regardless of how utterly ridiculous his quackery is, intelligent woo-prone women like Kim Tinkham fall for it and pay the price with their lives.

What the quacks give, I've found, is both certainly and control. Well, they actually don't give patients real certainty and control. Rather, they provide the illusion of certainty and control. Of course, there is a dark side to this message. In fact, Robert O. Young, as goofy as he looks and as goofy as he comes across when you see him on video, is a master at providing a false sense of control, as he demonstrates in a post on his blog I saw the other day entitled Health and Fitness Is A Choice Just As Sickness and Disease Is A Choice. Seldom have I seen the attitude of quacks laid out so baldly.

..."



--------------------

This spells out what is happening in health care and "alternative health care," but the analogy goes to politics and the ugliness of the GOP, too.

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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R...nt
Sid
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Thanks.
Alas, it didn't last. Something about science is not kicking in at DU.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. So much of REAL medicine today
Is treatment and maintenance of quality of life. So many illnesses, etc. do not have outright cures but can be managed/controlled. For those whose illnesses are not in that stage, anything from crappy sleight-of-hand artists "removing tumors" from your body with just their hands to medicines that have to be shaken up and down, left and right, and back and forth in factors of 10 offer a glimmer of (misplaced) hope.

TlalocW
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WingDinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. There are benefits to alkalynizing the body.
Acid balance bodies, specially with lots of white sugar is a petri dish. Kinda basic.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. uh huh.
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WingDinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yeast infection, for starters.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Say what?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. basic
prepare to be pun-ished.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Say what?
:shrug:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. pHorget it.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ah, you made whatever it was up.
Got it.

:rofl:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. No
but if you keep looking, maybe eventually you'll realize that you're not as clever as you imagine yourself to be.

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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It has nothing to do with being clever.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-11 04:24 PM by HuckleB
It has to do with evidence. Jokes in support of woo are not clever, btw.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Admit it. You missed it. It happens.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-11 05:35 PM by Warren DeMontague
You also seem to have a habit of starting threads and then tossing off 6th grade insults at the people who post in them. How's that workin' out for ya?

So leaving aside the fact that you missed the joke until I painted you a picture, how about now you explain precisely how ANYTHING I've said in this thread indicates even the tiniest sliver of 'support of woo'?

I'll wait.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You seem to have a habit of making claims that don't wash.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-11 06:15 PM by HuckleB
You made a joke. It supported BS. Cut the crap.

I'm sorry that you have a problem when I respond to BS with the same. For some reason, the original BS doesn't bother you. That seems odd.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. It's potmeetkettlicious!
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. He's being witty, and you're accusing him of lying?
That wooshing sound was WdM's joke going waaaaaaaay over your head.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. He's supporting woo.
Or did you miss that part?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I did. Spell it out for us.
Alternatively, you could simply admit that you don't "do" humor. The rest of us found Warren's base/pH jokes worthy of a chuckle.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Ah, "supporting woo"? *I* missed that part.
Edited on Wed Oct-19-11 02:42 PM by Warren DeMontague
How about you explain how, exactly, that joke 'supports woo'? It's a fucking JOKE, a commentary on the use (jesus, do I really have to explain the whole thing to you?) of the word "basic" in the context of a post about alkalinity. Now, of course, it's been beaten into the ground. But the JOKE had NO bearing or expression of opinion on the topic nor its response. Get it?

See, most people- myself included- would just say "whoops", admit a minor mistake, and move on. But I've actually noticed, with you, you seem perennially allergic to even conceding the tiniest possibility that you might have been wrong, about anything. Ever.

I get that it may be a reflexive debate posture on your part, but when taken to extremes, it comes off as goofy:

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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. OH, that's funny! Wouldn't have gotten it without the dash...
:rofl:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Well played.
:thumbsup:
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AngkorWot Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. lol
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks for Posting
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You're welcome.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Unrec trolls are out.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Thanks for the free hippie-punching PR." - AMA (R) & Big Pharma (R)
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AngkorWot Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Stop playing a victim
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Get your red herring here!
:eyes:
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. The meme "hippy punching" has now officially jumped the
shark on DU.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. This is the first I've seen it.
Oddly, I know several dozen self-described hippies, and most of them wouldn't go near a quack.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. Funny, I don't know any alternative practitioner who guarantees a cure.
This is just more skewed propaganda from those who see only one narrow little approach to every problem, and blindly dismiss everything else. There's a place for conventional medicine, there are things it does better than any other model, but there are also a lot of areas where it does more damage than good. Name-calling their fellow healers "quacks" is no better than alternative practitioners who dismiss every conventional approach.

And yes, I would take the personal control of my own research into alternative methods, over the toxic treatments, in a life-threatening chronic condition. We all eventually die, no matter what gyrations we put ourselves through. Each treatment type cures some patients and loses others. The difference is indeed in the sense of personal control, and the quality of life during the time one has left. But of course, if people were doing their own research and seeing to their own cures, it would cut off the big bucks that currently go down the drain of so much of the medical establishment. And the patient still dies, in the end.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Bingo!
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. It has been reported that Steve Jobs probably took 2-3 years
off his life by relying on alternative medicine. His choice, but obviously not a good one.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-18-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Then you don't know many alt med practitioners.
Edited on Tue Oct-18-11 06:30 PM by HuckleB
Oddly you failed to note that the author gave examples.

PS: http://www.chikara-reiki-do.com/master/

And, for fun, take a look at the list of things these folks claim acupuncture can treat:
http://www.brooklyncommunityacupuncture.com/faq.html

Is there an evidence base for any of this that would be considered fine and dandy for an treatment used by an actual MD?

And we could also talk about claims from alt med products, such as this one:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87937907
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