Report: Susan Sarandon calls Pope a Nazi

[El Supremo]

LOS ANGELES — Actress and social activist Susan Sarandon was reported to have called Pope Benedict a Nazi during a public discussion at a film festival in New York, provoking criticism from both Catholic and Jewish groups.

The movie star, who won an Oscar for her role in the 1995 anti-death penalty film "Dead Man Walking" actress, said she had sent a copy of the book on which the movie is based to the pope.

"The last one. Not this Nazi one we have now," she was reported as saying by New York newspaper Newsday.

(snip)

German born Pope Benedict, formerly Joseph Ratzinger, was briefly a member of the Hitler Youth in the early 1940s when membership was compulsory, the Vatican has said. He deserted the military during World War Two and has said that as devout Catholics, his parents rejected Nazi ideology.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44945134/ns/today-entertainment/

[Nickster]

1. But....he was a Nazi.....

[Posteritatis]

5. As was nearly every other German who was a minor between 1933 and 1945. (nt)

[stevenleser]

6. Except for those who were Jewish, Roma, Communists or Gay nt

[glinda]

15. and some of the Poles they threw in the gas chambers...

[devilgrrl]

39. Jehovahs Witnesses as well.

They were sent to the camps too. :-(

[StarsInHerHair]

67. or disabled

[Taverner]

36. Exactamundo. And no, only the "brightest and best" became Hitler Youth

So he could have done otherwise

[hack89]

41. No - membership was made mandatory for all Aryans in 1936

he had no choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth

[hack89]

43. Membership was mandatory - you don't know what he would have done given a choice. nt

[Book Lover]

58. Excuse me, he *did* have a choice

He could have summoned moral courage and refused. he could have summoned a different kind of moral courage and escaped his country. The Church is currently led by a man who was called by duty to participate in a grand dance of evil, and he complied. That's it and that's all.

[hack89]

64. He was 14 years old in a country at war - he would have been shot. nt

[Book Lover]

92. Two things

A) In the sense I'm talking about, so what? Do we Catholics not honor the martyr Franz Jagerstatter? I put it to you that those who are elevated to the papal throne should be made of stronger stuff. We Catholics expect the Pope to be made of stronger moral fiber than the rest of us.

B) My father, while circumstances were not exactly the same, found a way out of Italy in order to avoid military service. Again, the man who is now Pope should have found the courage to do the same. Or put another way, fine, you saved your own skin, that's a moral good, sure. But don't expect to be Pope. Or, when your friends elect you, don't expect too many Catholics, and others, to honor your moral position.

[smokey nj]

98. "They made me do it!" is not a valid excuse for Christ's earthly representative.

[hack89]

99. You are holding a 14 year old kid to the same moral standard as a 40 year old man

do you think that is right? Do you support the criminal justice system doing the same? OK with death penalty for 14 year olds? Of course not - our society draws clear lines between the actions of children and adults. We understand that children are not as mature, not as developed emotionally and intellectually, are not as able to reason and act as an adult.


As for leaving - he was 14 years old. You are asking a lot of a kid - especially since he may have put his parents in jeopardy. Do I really have to point out how much more idealistic and murderous the German government was? I can see an Italian official being bribed to look the other way - not the Gestapo.

[Book Lover]

106. Perhaps I ask too much of a 14 year old, sure.

But there is hardly enough to ask of the man who would be Pope. I don't think I'm really getting my point across here: we Catholics hold the Pope to a higher standard. When put to the test, the current officeholder of this position failed. He may have survived the test, but at the cost of being worthy of the papal throne.

[hack89]

107. Moral fundamentalism is not a christian virtue.

So the measure of a man can be taken when he is 14? He can never grow, never learn, never repent, never mature? Are you sure you belong on a progressive site?

[Book Lover]

111. Did you get the same Catholic education I did?

Answers to your questions: Yes, partly. Don't be facile; of course one can. I am positive I belong here. We are talking about the rules that the RCC operates under, not progressive values. Keep your spheres straight, please.

[hack89]

114. I am not Catholic.

I just understand that you can't judge a child as you would an adult.

[Book Lover]

118. I thought not (nm)

[hack89]

120. Like I said - moral fundamentalism nt

[smokey nj]

132. In the Roman Catholic tradition, the Pope isn't just any adult, though.

He is Jesus Christ's earthly representative, and as such needs to be held to a higher moral standard.

[hack89]

135. When is a man fully formed and can be judged as a man?

western society is clear that it is not at 14.

[smokey nj]

138. We're not judging the 14-year-old, we're judging the Supreme leader of the Roman Catholic church.

[hack89]

139. So what relevance do his actions as a 14 year old have? nt

[smokey nj]

145. When one is last word on morality for an entire faith, one's actions

as a 14-year-old and throughout life are completely relevant. You don't seem to get that in the Roman Catholic organizational flow chart, Benedict the XVI is in the box just below the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. While Joseph Ratzinger, member of the Hitler Youth, didn't know he was going to be Pope one day, the College of Cardinals which selected him for the position knew about his morally questionable past and chose him for the position anyway.
Down thread, BookLover described the selection of Joseph Ratzinger as sad. She's not the only Catholic who feels that way. Although I've given up on religion, I was raised a Catholic and most of the people I know are Catholics of varying degrees of devotion. From my siblings who still self-identify as Catholic although they never attend church to my aunt who is a nun (she's a Sister of Saint Joseph), none was happy with the choice.

[hack89]

148. So why did God (through the Cardinals) choose him?

or was God a powerless bystander?

[smokey nj]

152. Why didn't he resist and trust that God would protect him?

[hack89]

153. Doesn't seem to bother God so who am I to judge? nt

[nxylas]

108. He knew he was going to be Pope at 14?

Wow, that's what I call long-term planning.

[Book Lover]

112. I will explain this again. I hope you get it this time.

As a free moral agent, he was free to make any choice at the time the test was upon him. The color and tenor of his choice is taken into account when the College deliberated and voted. We can see how they acted, and what weight they gave to his choice. A very sad decision, in my opinion.

[Dragonfli]

89. Yes, one's mind goes to the resister youth such as the "Swing Kids" and White Rose /nt

[hack89]

100. So there is no middle ground at all?

either a full fledged Nazi or an active resister? Is everything so black and white in your world?

[Javaman]

109. Actually, in Germany under the nazi's, it pretty much was.

While I'm a former catholic and no supporter of any religion, I do recall pop john paul II being in the polish resistance.

what stopped ratzo? nothing.

that's all I'm saying.

[hack89]

113. He was a 14 year old kid

we don't hold kids to the same standards as adults for good reason - unless you are comfortable with the criminal justice system treating 14 year olds the same as adults.


Btw - John Paul II was not in the resistance. He studied in a seminary just like Benedict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II

[Javaman]

121. he was 16 in 1941. old enough to make his own choice.

I was marching in protests and caught in the middle of a number of riots at that age.

so it's nothing but bullshit about him being too young.

You can go along with the crowd or fight against them. One is easy the other takes guts.

with the guts route you always take a chance of getting caught up in something no one ever plans for.

The safe route, you are just another penguin marching with the jackboots.

[hack89]

126. So you lived in a violent police state that ran extermination camps? Really?

nothing you did risked the lives of you or your loved ones. So stop patting your self on the back for being so brave and moral. He lived in Nazi Germany.

[Javaman]

129. tell that to John Paul II.

he was a resistance fighter in Poland.

[hack89]

134. He also worked in a chemical factory for the German war effort

he worked in a quarry and then in a chemical factory for the German war effort (he did what was needed to survive.) He joined an underground seminary.

There is some mention that he may have been on the fringe of some resistance groups but he was not an active leader, organizer or fighter.

[Javaman]

136. okay then...

he was just as bad as ratzo.

I have no horse in this race. All popes to me are crooked in one way or another and all have massive skeletons in their closets.

Frankly, I find this whole issue incredibly amusing. It's like trying to slice and dice stupidity. No matter the size, it's still stupid.

[Katashi_itto]

140. Damn staight Popes should be held to high Standards,Example Maria gorreti, 11yrs raped and murdered

about 100 yrs ago, dying she forgave her assailant, "Maria, think of me in Paradise." She looked to the old man: "Well, who knows, which of us is going to be there first?" "You, Maria," he replied. "Then I will gladly think of you," said Maria.<9> The following day, twenty hours after the attack, having expressed forgiveness for her murderer and stating that she wanted to have him in Heaven with her, Maria died of her injuries, while looking at a very beautiful picture of the Blessed Mother.

Joan Of Arc
Joan said she was about 19 at her trial, so she must have been born around the year 1412. She later testified that she experienced her first vision around 1424 at the age of 12 years, when she was out alone in a field and saw visions of figures she identified as Saint Michael, Saint Catherine, and Saint Margaret, who told her to drive out the English and bring the Dauphin to Rheims for his coronation. She said she cried when they left, as they were so beautiful.

Saint Dymphna 16 yrs (also: Dympna, Dimpna) was the daughter of a pagan Irish king and his Christian wife in the 7th century. She was murdered by her father. The story of St. Dymphna was first recorded in the thirteenth century by a canon of the Church of St. Aubert at Cambrai, commissioned by the Bishop of Cambrai, Guy I (1238–1247). The author expressly states that his writings were based upon a longstanding oral tradition and a persuasive history of inexplicable and miraculous healings of the mentally ill

[geardaddy]

150. What do these things have to do with popes?

These are saints you've listed.

[Katashi_itto]

155. age

[Ter]

149. Even if he had a choice, he was 14

It's ok to forgive a 14 year old for stupid things, he was a minor.

[unkachuck]

68. yes, but a good Nazi....n/t

[alittlelark]

74. +1000

factually correct. Most saints were canonized because they REFUSED to go along with what their society told them to do.

Pope John Paul was an amazing man. We went to the Vatican last year. Almost ALL the calendars, posters, plates.... were of John Paul.

The current pope has a few mementos for sale - but I saw no one buying them.

PS - I am an extremely lapsed Catholic flirting w/ atheism.

[tropicanarose]

104. He was a little boy who grew up in Nazi Germany.

[tsuki]

2. I agree. nt

[Tansy_Gold]

3. Good for her. K&R

Flame away

[stevenleser]

4. I try to advise people against "Nazi" and "Hilter" accusations. And I dont think Benedict is a Nazi,

but... he was a member of the Hitler Jungen. Kinda hard to deny that. Compulsory or otherwise and as a result, well...

[Mimosa]

9. ^ ITA Steven. Sarandon earning her reputation as a flake ^

This kind of hysterical stuff isn't helpful to anybody.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. A "flake"?

Really? Uh huh....

[closeupready]

12. Correction - Oscar-winning flake.

;)

[Mimosa]

16. I've a rep as a lib and progressive.

Right or wrong, Sarandon has a reputation. Even in the biz she's in there are many people who won't work with her. They think she is one of the few who give 'Hollywood' a bad reputation.

Google Susan Sarandon and flake. :7

I'm no fan of Pope Benedict. But there's no real point to calling the Pope a Nazi unless Sarandon is wanting to stir up controversy.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

25. I did, and your post --

and ones from right-wing sites are the only ones that showed up.

As someone who actually worked in the film industry, I've never heard stories about anyone who would not work with her, or that she presented some sort of a problem for a production.

I'll take the serious activism and generosity of a "flake" like Sarandon any day.

[EFerrari]

31. Yeah, she's that flake who called Bush out on his bullshit invasion

when all the dickless wonders in Hollywood were too afraid to.

I'll take her over a hundred of them any day.

[emcguffie]

62. I've always liked and respected Susan Sarandon.

You mean because she has stated certain opinions about the world and politics she's a flake?

[Marrah_G]

131. I like her and don't believe her honesty makes her a flake

She is a liberal with strong opinions that she is not afraid to voice.

[joeybee12]

26. She was hardly hysterical...and she was absolutely spot on...nt

[EFerrari]

7. A pedophile protecting one at that. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

13. If I believed in a Devil, he would be it --

Anyone who protects pedophiles is the definition of evil. :mad:

[vets74]

130. Radziger was the Holy Church's Top Cop. He went blind and deaf on all of the boy-sex cases.

That's worse than being an ordinary man-in-the-street Nazi Party member. Or even a member of the 3,000,000 Sturmabteilung.

He was a co-conspirator and had to know about shifting these criminals to new parishes.

More like an SS member. Active in deep crimes on a daily basis.

Give me an ordinary racist 1930s/1940s Nazi any day, compared with Ratzinger.

[Critters2]

142. If he didn't know then, he knows now. But Bernard Law is still in Rome. nt

[vets74]

147. Don't get me started on Cardinal Bernard Francis Law. His scheme for "damping" popular outrage....

[Critters2]

141. The pedophile thing is much more upsetting than his Nazi past.

14 year old Nazis are less difficult to explain, ethically, than grown men enabling child molesters.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

8. :D

Susan went to Catholic school, as did I. We earned the right to say stuff like this. ;)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. Delete --

DU burped -

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. The Roman Catholic Church reportedly assisted the Nazis in WWII.

[Mimosa]

17. And some Catholics died as resistors in concentration camps.

Other Catholics hid vulnerable Jews or helped them escape Germany and occupied countries.

The real history is complex.

Excerpt from the OP link:

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which fights anti-Semitism, called on Sarandon to apologize to the Catholic Community.

"Ms. Sarandon may have her differences with the Catholic Church, but that is no excuse for throwing around Nazi analogies. Such words are hateful, vindictive and only serve to diminish the true history and meaning of the Holocaust," the ADL said in a statement.

[closeupready]

18. Why didn't Benedict also resist by not joining Hitler Youth? Was he not also Catholic?

??

[Mimosa]

21. HE WAS A KID. n/t

[closeupready]

23. AND....?

You make no point.

[joeybee12]

27. Let me just say...

Bullshit to your warped logic...he was not a kid, he was a teen, he was not forced...bull fucking shit.

[Dragonfli]

34. Actually he was a teenager and a Nazi, The truth should not offend one so. /nt

[blueamy66]

76. My 13 year old nephew

is still a kid.

[Dragonfli]

78. Ratso used to protect those that would molest your nephew as part of his former job

If his early nazi beliefs do not bother you (they bother me) that last bit should, One of the main reasons I left the church after spending my youth in it and attending its schools was because of priests like that, the hypocrisy, and bishops like him that covered it up. It is also why I left Seminary after only three months in.

[blueamy66]

79. All I stated was that my 13 year old nephew is still a kid.

I went to Catholic School all my life as well.

I don't like our Pope either.

[Dragonfli]

80. I am sorry, i didn't look at the name before I replied, I once had great hopes for the church

Perhaps someday they will clean it up, throughout it's history it has gone from positive to extremely negative to extremely positive to negative again, perhaps it will swing around again.

[blueamy66]

95. but you know, I have great memories of my Catholic school

experience....still have many good friends 25 years later...hell, I live less than a mile from my HS :-) still follow their sporting events...

I don't attend Mass anymore and have a few issues with their stances on a few things....it's hard for me.

I loved JPII though

[Fire Walk With Me]

66. "The Concordat effectively legitimized Hitler and the Nazi government to the eyes of Catholicism,.

Christianity, and the world". See pics toward the bottom of the page:

http://www.zenzoneforum.com/threads/18885-Pope-s-Advisor-Arrested-for-Pedophilia

[hack89]

44. By 1936 German law mandated membership - he had no choice. ntnt

[Tansy_Gold]

51. He had no choice, which is why he denies choice to 50% of the

human species.

[hack89]

55. Nice non-sequitur. nt

[Tansy_Gold]

57. Not at all.

His defenders point to his "lack of choice" in joining the Hitler Youth organization. It seems that if Ratzinger himself understood how lack fo choice works, and how it can affect one's life, then he would understand better how the lack of choice can affect women.

I'm not talking just about abortion. The Roman Catholic Church denies women the choice of all effective birth control methods. Oh, I'm well aware that many RC women use non-approved birth control anyway. But that's because they've taken their right of choice back from the Church.

The Church denies women the right to serve as priests and bishops and even pope. I have no love nor even any respect for the Church, as you may have noticed, but even it acknowledges through its actions that it has no respect for women. Women are never worthy to be priests. Women are essentially tainted from birth, or even before birth, in ways that men aren't. Priests and even bishops who commit horrible crimes are defended by the church, but women aren't even worthy of a chance to prove themselves.

The church continues to insist on celibacy for its priests, even though that may be costing it many of its potentially most effective pastors and leaders and -- AND -- while it may be contributing to the ongoing problem of pedophilia within the priestly ranks.

The church of which former Hitler Youth member Ratzinger is leader, continues to denigrate sexuality, by elevating the overtly non-sexual all-male priesthood above the sexual laity.

All of these are choices the church, and its leadership, has made, because it has the power to make choices.

While I have a little respect -- but more pity -- for some individual Roman Catholics, I have virtually nothing but contempt for the Church itself and its hierarchy. I will not deny anyone the right to believe as they choose, but I reserve the right to despise an organization that reserves that right for itself while denying it to so many.

And when I saw the video of Ratsinger in his finery -- so much for a vow of poverty -- wheeled out on his mobile platform, I could not help but think of the starving millions in "Catholic" countries.



TG

[closeupready]

105. He could have chosen to disobey the law. As OTHER children did.

nt

[mitchtv]

146. why should he?

Pius XII was collaborating

[Puregonzo1188]

37. I am sorry, but regardless of the accuracy of her comment, but the ADL isn't a moral authority on

anything.

[Darth_Kitten]

48. Exactly, and a lot of non-Catholics assisted Hitler.

n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Oh, it's worse than that. Hitler sent Van Papen to Rome in 1933 to seal a

Concordat with Pope Pius XII. The terms of the Reichskonkordat basically said that Hitler would allow the Catholics freedom of worship in exchange for their dissolution of the Catholic Centre Party, a strong middle-class party in Weimar Germany.

Translation: I'll leave you Catholics alone if you agree to let me do what I want to the Commies, Socialists, Gypsies, Jews, Russians, ad infinitum.

Pius knew as early as 1942 about the Nazi's killing centers in German-occupied Poland. Poland is, after all, predominantly Roman Catholic. Did Pius do or say anything?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. She speaks TRUTH to POWER. He was/is a Nazi. Good for Susan! n/t

[Kingofalldems]

22. Unrec for another DU attack on Catholicism

[joeybee12]

28. I'll counter your unrec witha rec...she was attacking huim, not Catholicism...

If you read the whole thing, she actually sent a copy of Dead Man Walking to the Pope..she has no problem with Catholics,. just asshole Nazis.

[smokey nj]

52. Susan Sarandon was raised Catholic.

[EFerrari]

30. No, an attack on corruption, not Catholics. And not by DU. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

61. There are some enlightening pictures on this page 2/3rds the way down

and before that.

[Fire Walk With Me]

63. I suppose that I need to include a link. I blame Anerucabs everywhere.

http://www.zenzoneforum.com/threads/18885-Pope-s-Advisor-Arrested-for-Pedophilia

[Goblinmonger]

84. So one cannot criticize the pope

without "attacking" Catholicism as a whole? Is that really the stance you want to take? Because most Catholics on DU want to distance themselves from the pope and his views on morality, but, hey, I'll be happy to have that discussion with you.

[Horse with no Name]

103. I'll counteract with with a rec for truth.

Attacking pedophilia, molestation and truth is hardly anti-Catholicism.

[Rebubula]

117. LOL...

...Catholicism NEEDS to be attacked.

There are no sacred cows in this place or anywhere in my world.

Catholicism is responsible for more pain and suffering than any other organization in the history of the world. No other entity has withstood the test of time over the last 1800 years.

Fuck catholicism and its inherent beliefs.

One day - the Earth will be rid of these antiquated belief systems that are in place to control the population....probably because another one comes and supplants it - lol.

[MrMickeysMom]

125. No... it's just an attack on the Pape...

Not good Catholics.. Try to see the difference.

[truebrit71]

24. She is correct. What's the problem?

I am more concerned with his role as chief of the pedophile-priest cover-up in the Vatican during John Paul II than his stint in the Hitler Youth, but compulsory or not, the fact remains he was a nazi...

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

32. Nice sexist OT crap there.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

54. I earned my living as a comedy writer for a decade.

And pointing out obvious sexism isn't "flying off the handle".

lmao

[Union Scribe]

71. Guess it burned you out, then

Because while I generally agree with your posts, you're not exactly a bundle of fun. Sarandon herself made light of being a 'cougar' on snl, so get off my back eh?

[madinmaryland]

33. But neither of them were at The Menger Bar this afternoon, Hitler!

:D

[AnOhioan]

38. Good for her...she does not dance around the truth

[AngkorWot]

40. German. Hitler Youth. Flaming bigot. Yup, it all adds up.

[geardaddy]

151. I love that picture!

:rofl:

[Blue_In_AK]

42. Whenever someone states the obvious,

I frequently say "Is the Pope a Nazi?" It used to be "Is the Pope Polish?" Just stating the obvious.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

49. Oh, right, and so did many non-Catholics.

:eyes:

[Doremus]

46. Good for Susan.

We need more people like her willing to speak the truth.

[paulk]

47. good for her....

[MadHound]

50. Funny how a factual statement can become headline news

Good on Susan for speaking the truth.

[Shagbark Hickory]

53. The comment was fair game.

And I'm usually the one that is quick to get offended over inappropriate nazi comments so
you
know...
This comment was
really
fair game.

[thelordofhell]

56. I've one thing to say, and that's

Dammit.....Janet.....I love you

[justiceischeap]

59. What I find intriguing about the comments in this thread is

that people are offended by her factual statement. Whether or not he had a choice to join the Hitler youth doesn't negate the fact that he was, indeed, for a time, a Nazi. That isn't a lie, it's a fact.

[Odin2005]

60. Yup. Der Popenfuhrer IS a Nazi.

[greiner3]

65. Hitler was indeed raised Catholic;

However, by most accounts he had no ninterest in Christianity and went so far as to denounce it.

Tbere is credible evidence Hitler came from Jewish stock along the male side. I have read stories purporting that he was Jewish from his mother's side also. This resulted in his decision to wipe his boyhood's town from the face of the Earth in the 1930s so no one from his village could attest to this. But this last is conjecture and no proof can be found.

He did persecute Catholic lay and clergy. However, he was a lot more lenient with this religion than many others. He most certainly had a cozy relationship with the Catholic hierarchy.

There was a movie with Steve Reeves playing a priest that uncovered dealings with the Catholic church having to do with finance prior to, during and after WWII. I remember that there was comment after the mo9vie came out that some, if not a lot, of the premise German Nazis.

[Goblinmonger]

85. He denounced Catholicism because he felt the Jew, Saul,

corrupted the message of the Christ. It wasn't Christianity he had a problem with, but with his perception of a Jewish stained Christianity (he even went so far as to say that stories of Jesus being Jewish were just part of Saul's corruption).

[Vidar]

69. Brava, Susan!

[malaise]

70. Pretty accurate n/t

[Marrah_G]

72. Well technically.....

He was one. But he was just a kid. There is plenty to dislike about him currently .

[tuckessee]

73. So he was in the NSDAP? What was his party number?

If no party number then no nazi.

[hack89]

75. In 1941 he was drafted in to the HY when he turned 14

a big fuss over nothing.

[Dragonfli]

81. The HY were not boyscouts you know, they were sent out to beat and harrass people

and worse (they were also required to snitch on family). You act as if that sort of thing is nothing more than "boys being boys", they were a bit more nasty than that.

[hack89]

83. Every boy at age 14 had to join - there was no choice involved.

are you saying that every German was a Nazi at heart? If it was exclusive and he volunteered I would understand the outrage.

[Dragonfli]

88. There were those that resisted as well, I would have been more impressed if he were among them

As it stands he was likely a party to some rather evil deeds assigned to his group. I never felt much pity for ANY of the "good German's" that did whatever was asked out of a sense of nationalism.

If he were truly "called" as priests and other church members are supposed to be, I would think he would have been among the "bad German's" (AKA the White Rose).

[hack89]

90. He was at a seminary until he was drafted at age 16

to help man an anti-aircraft battery so I doubt he was party to much evil.

You ask a lot of a 14 year old - not only would he have been punished but most likely his enter family would have been too. He was a kid.

[Dragonfli]

91. Was he 14 or 16? If he was simultaneously in seminary and Hitler youth it makes me wonder what he

was learning, perhaps that was the time he learned that covering up crimes against children and protecting their abusers was the Godly way to go. Actually that all makes more sense now, thanks.

[hack89]

94. German law said every Aryan boy was automatically enrolled at 14

he was drafted for actual military service at 16. Before that, while at the seminary, his obligation was to attend weekly meetings.

It is really important to you that he is painted as an evil, child abusing Nazi, isn't it. If it makes sense to you then I just have to shake my head at all that hate that appears to be eating you up. I think I will go take a shower now.

[tuckessee]

137. Not really true for the war years.

The HJ were used as flakhilfers manning AA guns & searchlights or as bicycle mounted, panzerfaust carrying antitank fire brigades.

What you say may be true for the early years of the HJ but after all other youth groups were forced into the HJ it became a much less idealogically driven organization.

[inna]

77. firmly in Susan's camp, even though he probably isn't literally a Nazi.

what seriously bothers me about this whole accident though is the attempts to muzzle and demonize her.

absolutely deplorable, imo.

[kiranon]

154. Agree. n/t

[whistler162]

82. Ms. Sarandon you just proved the old axiom....

"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." The question is no onger in doubt, you are a fool!

[Faithful One]

86. Agreed.

If you do not agree with the Vatican, that is perfectly fine. I know I don't on many points.

But to call the Pope a Nazi when he was -forcibly conscripted- into the Hitler Youth is just...wrong.

It'd be like me calling Richard Dawkins a eugenicist because he's an atheist. It doesn't make sense.

[Raster]

124. -forcibly conscripted-.... you know this for a fact, right? You were there?

Or are you just believing the P.R.?

[Raine]

87. Agree

these kind of statements really help our side ... NOT. x(

[Raster]

122. No such thing was proved. That is YOUR opinion.

[quinnox]

93. I don't buy the divinity of the pope

Sorry, I'm not against spirituality, but the alleged divinity of the pope is hard to swallow. I see a lot of Catholics in this thread trying to protect the pope and his status as some kind of holy representative, but its kind of pathetic to me.

[chrisa]

96. The Pope is just another politician. Why are people unable to see or admit this?

He is no better than me or you.

[Javaman]

110. +1 nt

[snooper2]

133. I would use the word huckster but that's just me...

of course politicians are hucksters to so :shrugh: :)

[TwilightGardener]

115. I see people saying he didn't really make a choice to be a Nazi as a child.

What any adherent to any religion believes, or what any atheist or agnostic believes, is not relevant to this thread.

[Aerows]

97. For heaven's sake

Can we ALL please stop calling people Hitler and Nazis? Please?

[Behind the Aegis]

116. +1

[Erose999]

101. I say we remove her from Monday Night Football, post haste.

Oh, wait...

[tropicanarose]

102. He was a young boy in a work camp. I don't care what Susan Sarandon thinks or saysh

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

119. Tsk. Tsk. Poor Pope. Dreadful. What a shame. Pass the smelling salts and holy water.

[lonestarnot]

123. Now that is fucking funny. Not Ms. Susan, welp, that's funny too, but the

pic.

[and-justice-for-all]

127. Spot on!!!

the whole of the Catholic Church were nazi sypathizers and I am quite sure that they never even excommunicated hitler.

[MNBrewer]

144. They worked hand in hand with Francisco Franco, too.

[Andrew_Writer]

128. bad

That is horrible, nice Glenn Beck tactic there!

[MNBrewer]

143. So what?