Michael Moore: Historians Going to Wonder Why the Rich Overplayed their Hand

[Hissyspit]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/18/michael-moore-historians-going-to-wonder-why-the-rich-overplayed-their-hand

Michael Moore: Historians going to wonder why the rich overplayed their hand

By Eric W. Dolan
Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore said Tuesday night that the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstration in lower Manhattan and other cities continued to grow because Wall Street had ruined the lives of so many people in the middle class.

“I think historians when they look at this time, they’re going to wonder why the wealthy overplayed their hand like this,” he said during an appearance on MSNBC’s PoliticsNation.

“Why would they, when they had it so good? They had the middle class voting for the politicians that the wealthy bought, everything was running just fine, they were posting profits of a billion a year, but that wasn’t enough for them.”

“What they did was started to ruin the lives of the very people who voted for their politicians and supported them all these years, the middle class,” Moore said.

VIDEO AT LINK

[RainDog]

1. absolute power corrupts absolutely n/t

[LetTimmySmoke]

Yes, and then follows the hubris.

Why did Napoleon overplay his hand? Why did Hitler overplay his hand?

[L. Coyote]

82. They could so they did -- the "get yours while you can" ethic

[FirstLight]

12. exactly

that's why regualtions etc were in place... now it will all end up crumbling and *WE* will be the ones to rebuild...

[slay]

24. +1

yep

[BeyondGeography]

2. Because they were drunk and nobody ever intervened

But he does make a great point.

[Arugula Latte]

3. I hope he's right, but

isn't this a bit premature? How do we get from demonstrations to reining in these criminals and making a just system?

[socialist_n_TN]

5. We don't......

nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Not quite

I wanted to laugh when I heard that. Historians do not wonder why or how the rich overplayed their hand in the 1930s or the 1880s. It is part of the dang fracking cycle.

But as good an observer as More is, this is part of the hidden history of the US... well outside of academe that is.

[socialist_n_TN]

8. Beat me to it nadin.....

The wealthy ALWAYS overplay their hand. It's part of the historical cycle. Which is why I believe in smashing the system. If we don't our grandkids will be doing this again in a few decades.

[Amonester]

6. I think when Historians who studied History for a long time already...

did notice the greedy & powerfuls ALWAYS end-up overplaying their hand...

Best examples: King George II, and Marie-Antoinette & Co.

Nothing really 'new' there. It's 'old' human nature...

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. That they teach in school, but

them are furiegners... we rarely teach people about the gilded age, or the bonus marchers, in the 1930s (in High School), and things like May Day... outside of graduate seminars, you kid me right?

[Amonester]

16. A short-span memory is 'old' human nature also.

I understand History lessons aren't really 'attractive' to the masses.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Nope, they also teach it in a way that makes it

damn boring... dates and names, and elite history. Yup, we all know about the heroic Washington at Valley Forge, but rarely we learn about the rank and file that truly did freeze, while the general had a roof. To the credit of the general he tried his best to improve the troops lot, but reality is he was not by the fire trying to keep warm. And the names of those troops are gone, mostly... except for specialists who go dig them out.

But it is simpler to use this



Than to think of the lot of the common soldier and ask why did the common solider stay?

(edited to smaller image on the same theme)

[Amonester]

20. That's why I say History lessons are not 'attractive' to the masses.

The way it's being teached isn't going to improve that situation.

[jwirr]

80. I agree but isn't there something that triggers the actions? Greed I

know but something that they are afraid of or maybe it is more like arrogant enough to think they can get by with it and deserve it? I think that was definitely Hitlers problems and Marie Antoinette's also.

[cui bono]

7. It's like that fable where the dog holding a bone in its mouth sees its reflection in a lake

and tries to grab the other bone. Guess they never read that story.

[ChazII]

14. +1 n/t

[Demeter]

9. Cocaine?

I've got to think it's the drugs they could afford and use with impunity.

and the megalomania...fear that some dweeb like Steve Jobs would upset the apple cart....

[coalition_unwilling]

35. I retreat to tried and tested verities, namely Ecclesiastes' "Vanity,

vanity, all is vanity". These parasites actually started thinking their shit didn't stink. They actually came to think of themselves as "Masters of the Universe."

Someone upthread cited 'hubris' (also a tried and tested verity from Classical Greece).

[Hydra]

11. You know, I've been pondering this very irony

The middle class for decades has been ignoring the corruption and death our system causes because they were benefiting.

They were the best defense the rich had. For a few crumbs, they defended America and the rich in a way that was basically unassailable.

...But maybe the problem was, the middle class DARED to think themselves as good as their masters.

[Luminous Animal]

13. Aw c'mon Mike, they always do until they end up with their head on a pike.

[WillyT]

15. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[lucca18]

17. They think greed is good.....and they want more and more, and more. nt

[RagAss]

19. See my sigline...

[kster]

21. Michael Moore is so full of shit he stinks,

“Why would they, when they had it so good? They had the middle class voting for the politicians that the wealthy bought, everything was running just fine, they were posting profits of a billion a year, but that wasn’t enough for them.”

“What they did was started to ruin the lives of the very people who voted for their politicians and supported them all these years, the middle class,” Moore said.

All the middle class has to do is show up for the election to make the whole voting process look legit, it is not legit, Michael Moore knows this.

The media dictates the candidates we get to pick from.

The electronic/mechanical vote counting machines that count our ballots/votes, in secret, decide the rest. Middle class decides nothing. PERIOD.

And Michael Moore knows this!!!

[TheKentuckian]

22. Isn't that his point, that the required cover the charade needed was there and cheap?

What is going on is bullshit but the portrayal is closer to truth than fiction.

[EFerrari]

28. Nothing he said contradicts that. Of course he knows.

But until people were thrown out of their homes and jobs, they weren't on the street about our screwed up elections. That's what he means. The rich did overplay their hand. They've screwed themselves, too.

[soryang]

63. Right the electoral is rigged in numerous ways,

It is meaningless. Very few people discuss the significance of this. Our elections are for the most part a fraud. Citizens United, gerrymandering, vote obstruction schemes, voting with electrons, no way to conduct legitimate recounts, etc. The ramifications of an illegitimate voting system, is an illegitimate government. If you recognize this for what it is, then what do you do? Claim you are a democracy and bomb other nations into submission.

[socialindependocrat]

64. You are having trouble grasping his point??? n/t

[rrneck]

23. They didn't

The giant money harvesting machine they set loose on the landscape did.

[hvn_nbr_2]

25. There's no mystery at all

Greed makes people crazy.

Overwhelming unrestrained greed makes people stark raving mad.

There's a reason that there's a long-lived fairy tale about killing the goose that laid golden eggs. Excessive greed makes people stupid.

[dkf]

26. Exactly how poor is Michael Moore again?

[Luminous Animal]

30. And that is relevant how?

[dkf]

33. He is attacking himself. Too funny.

[Luminous Animal]

34. You think Michael Moore has a seat at the table of power?

[dkf]

37. Ah so this isn't about being rich, it's about being powerful?

Actually I'd say Michael Moore was as powerful as anyone around seeing as how he has access to media and a following.

[Hissyspit]

36. Absurd.

[dkf]

38. You don't see that he has money and power? How is that untrue?

[Hissyspit]

39. He has money and power.

He's not attacking himself.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

58. Many of the rich are on the 99%ers' side, even though they are not part

of the 99%--e.g., Warren Buffet and George Soros.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Downtown Hound]

44. Michael Moore made his money through documentary films

about the exploitation of the poor by the rich. If you can point out any way he damaged or destroyed the middle class in that process then you can whine about him criticizing himself. Until then, well, you're just not very smart. Michael Moore never set out to be rich. It happened because the topics he discusses in his films touched a nerve in so many Americans and he told the stories that few would dare to tell.

[leeroysphitz]

47. You sound just like my republican brother in law. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

48. hey, I got one of those too - and you're exactly right!

[WinkyDink]

53. The POINT is: He isn't fighting against being more heavily taxed.

But you know that.

[Umbral]

55. There is always some fatuous boob who defines someone entirely by the size of their wallet!!

Gordon Gekko!! Gordon Gekko!!

[QC]

65. Fatuous boob! That is a truly lovely bit of phrase-making.

I am stricken with admiration for you. Seriously.

[fascisthunter]

67. I'm so Glad he pisses you off

[Warpy]

27. Within 5 years, they went from Rove reassuring them that there was

a permanent Republican majority in Congress to having Congress in Democratic hands and under a black Democratic president.

I think they just panicked and thought they had to do it all right now.

So the frogs finally figured out that pot was getting to the boiling point.

[Norrin Radd]

29. ...

[Marr]

32. I think they crossed this line where they really believed their own propaganda.

The whole line about the wealthy being the engines of prosperity... somewhere along the line that went from being PR to gospel in their little world. They've come to fairly openly describe themselves the tiny group of supermen whom the rest of society exists to serve.

[workinclasszero]

40. Wall Street engineered a coup for their boy...then

They packed the SCOTUS with enough right wing ideologies to subvert and destroy any semblance of actual democracy with person-hood for corporations and also equated money with free speech.

Since the Fairness Doctrine was abolished, hate radio and fox "news" spew out their anti american lies 24/7, the most successful propaganda effort since Goebbels in nazi Germany. They infiltrated the democratic party via blue dogs, the DLC and Third Wave bullshit artists like Bill Clinton, Mr NAFTA, the man who killed Glass-Steagall on November 12, 1999 which freed wall street to insure the final destruction of the American middle class.

The soviet union collapsed as well. Communist China became our biggest trading partner and source of no regulations labor so Steve Jobs and many many others could rake in billions on the suicidal broken lives of Chinese slave workers.

I mean hell, who was going to stop them? They defeated or co opted everything in their path. Wall street ruled the freakin world! No one even dared to try. Until OWS. And they are truly our last hope.

If OWS fails or is co opted by either party, the game is over for good IMO.

[Donnachaidh]

42. +1,000,000,000,000! n/t

[Arugula Latte]

43. Good post. You nailed it.

:thumbsup:

[workinclasszero]

45. Thanks guys. Please for the sake of humanity do all you can..

To help OWS and any occupiers in your area. Its going to be a long cold winter. We have to help them get through it and into spring 2012.

I believe the world is going to change in a massive way in 2012. The Occupy movement is going to be on the frontlines fighting for the last chance of the 99% and our kids to have a decent life.

We can't let them down, we can't get bored, we cant get tired as long as those kids are out there freezing and in some places bleeding and in jail for our freedom.

[sofa king]

41. A fleet is only as fast as its slowest ship....

...But when the convoy's escorts are bribed away and the buccaneers descend upon it, the pirates are as swift as the greediest crew.

[spin]

46. Throughout history the rich have always overplayed their hand ...

Greed and power leads to the desire for more greed and power.

It also helps when the rich consider themselves the creators of jobs despite the fact that they run corporations which do everything possible to stifle competition and new ideas.

Part of the reason that the government now has so many regulations on business is so only the big corporations can afford to hire the people to comply with the rules. A smaller company is often totally overwhelmed by all the useless paperwork, therefore the owners find far too much of their time taken up with complying with the regulations to actually make their business work. The government passes these regulations because the people WE elect are owned by the Big Corporations.

And of course, the really BIG corporations like BP can violate the rules and not one manager or important person ever ends up in jail. Plus if you are a CEO of a major company and you manage to run your company into the ground because you are focused on short term profit, you just move on to run another corporation into the ground for a obscene salary. The worst that will happen is that you will get a fantastic Golden Parachute while your workers try to live on unemployment until it runs out. You have a 55" LCD TV in your bathroom to watch while you sit on your throne and your ex-workers end up living on the streets or in cardboard boxes.

The United States is a nation of the rich and the Big Corporations, for the rich and the Big Corporations and by the rich and the Big Corporations. It's good to be rich in the United States at this time.

This will change. Hopefully the change will be peaceful, but often throughout history change has required violence.

[DianeK]

49. There is nothing wrong with Capitalism....

But it can not work for very long by itself and for the very same reason that Communism can not work by itself...the human condition called Greed. Capitalism must be softened with Socialism in order for it to work effectively.

My opinion only

[Uncle Joe]

51. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.

[WinkyDink]

52. Our wealthy wanted to keep up with the Abramoviches. Millionaires want to become billionaires.

[StarsInHerHair]

76. billionaires want to become trillionaires

[WinkyDink]

54. The argument suggesting that one must be St. Francis of Assisi in order to credibly criticize the

rich is so specious as to be risible.

FDR wasn't a pauper, but he DID help the people.

[wiggs]

56. This should have been the turning point a decade ago. W's speech to the elite, from

Moore's own F 9-11.

This revealing clip should be part of the OWS rallying cry...makes the point it is NOT just about Wall Street and NOT about capitalism. Should be on TV every f*&king day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4daYJzyls

The 99% are not the base of the GOP and some of the dems.

[bvar22]

57. Human Fraility.

The Golden Goose is always killed in the end.

[Festivito]

59. I say the rich are about where they want to be: Able to DESTROY DEMOCRACY.

With America out of the picture unable to be taken militarily with its well armed citizenry, instead felled into economic chaos, Europe's fall will not be far behind.

The internet will become a propaganda tool. It will look open and free, but insiders will know that each person receives their own altered copy of news instead of everyone being able to read the same text. That has already started.

Overplayed? I don't think so. I think they continue dealing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. fantastic interview - the video is a must watch

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/18/michael-moore-historians-going-to-wonder-why-the-rich-overplayed-their-hand/



.

[Blue Owl]

61. Just a buttload of greed is all it takes

n/t

[DirkGently]

62. They started to believe their own bullshit, is what happened.

Old-school patricians like Poppy Bush knew how to wield and maintain unjust privilege in a supposed democracy: Quietly. I think he knew it was all bullshit and not to actually claim it. He called Reagan's "trickle down" theories "voodoo economics." He understood that these Chicago School, Ayn Randian fallacies are only for show, something for the privileged class to comfort themselves with as they crushed another South American republic or what have you.

But you don't actually try to sell that stuff out loud. It can't withstand the scrutiny. Except, apparently, in America. For a little while.

His son wasn't the first to actually believe all the rationalizations, but he sure embodied the child who overhears his parents saying horrendous things at home and then blurts them out embarrassingly at parties, because he doesn't get that everyone isn't as amused by,for example, the fact that "Rich people don't pay taxes anyway heeherrhaw."

Since then it's been a race to be more boldly horrific. Mitt Romney's most historic moment may forever be the day he said "Corporations are people too."

Taking it all wasn't enough. They had to go and claim they had the RIGHT. There's an old (entirely metaphorical, let us be clear) saying hanging in an office I know:

"Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered."

[fascisthunter]

66. because it was never meant to be

corrupt fools are kinda insane because they are never really dealing with reality, but one they make up in their own heads to suite their agendas.

[katty]

68. because they could,they were facilitated all along the way to

the great heist.

[LittleGirl]

69. Highly respect Michael Moore

but every time I defend him or quote him, they (the other side) compares him to rush limpdick. very frustrating.

if you're reading this Michael, I have your back.

[Major Hogwash]

70. Mike's support for Ralph Nader in 2000 didn't help America, either.

It's interesting to note that he wants us to hate the rich, yet he was willing to support a multi-millionaire like Nader in 2000 to be our President.
Nader, a man who made his money investing in all those companies on WALL STREET!!!

John Stewart even supported Nader in 2000.
Just like Bill Maher.

So, if any of those 3 "brainiacs" want to know how this country got to where it is now, all they have to do is look into the mirror!!

[underpants]

71. Why? because they have Fox News and CNN to control public opinion

that's why

[spanone]

72. human nature

[louslobbs]

73. Kicked/Rec'd n/t

Lou

[davidwparker]

74. Why? Greed.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

[nineteen50]

75. Only George the third and Marie Antoinette know.

[qb]

77. Unrestrained capitalism is a ravenous beast. It has no foresight.

[Diclotican]

78. Hissyspit

Hissyspit

Look at the history, for the last 250-300 years, and you wil se the theme who have followed the rich and powerfull.. When there is check and balances, everyting is ok... When the balance between the rich and the rest is lesser, or totaly lack, then things start to unreval.. It exist an contract between us all in society, when one part, or more, ar not accepting that contract who are there, then things unreval, and the rich tend to play the game.. I don't mean the middle class, I mean the upper class, who either belive they can get a greater share of the wealth - or more the few ones who really belive they can steal, sheat and do as they wish.. Pepole who have "old money" tend to be more carefull, than pepole with "new money".. Or at least, less braggable about the money than the novue richy..

But if you know your history, you also wil know, that if the difference between pepole are to great, something wil snap, and a whole bag of shit wil open, and it is posible that the rich who overplay their hand, wil end up loosing everything they ever have had. Maybe even their life..

Both the revolution of 1789, the 1848 (In europe) and the grat russian revolution of 1917 (who started in 1905, but was postponed to 1917 as the first in 1905 was stoped and crushed in blood) was in part, the result of the big difference between the upper classes, and the lower classes, desperate and poor - and also, hungry, as food was scarce and expensive.. Both the revolutions of 1789, and 1917 happened becouse the masses of poor, working men and woman was hungry, and the conctract between the rulers, and the ruled, was broken.

Diclotican

[jwirr]

79. I think something spooked them. But the problem is what was it?

The problem started with raygun but it was held in check pretty much until W. Why did they suddenly jump the gun?

I have wondered if they have known about oil depletion and climate change for a long time and suddenly saw it coming and panicked? Are they gathering these fortunes to survive what they see coming? What is going on?

[TomClash]

81. I think most of these answers may be just a tad off the mark

It's the Game's addiction. They get a few million. Then a few more. And then still more. But it's never enough. There's always a new high. A new model, a new house, better vacations, something new, rare, someone to beat, impress, desire.

Having it so good doesn't matter. Good isn't enough - the one who dies with the most toys wins.

[L. Coyote]

83. And, they are sweating bullets they might have to pay as much taxes as before Bush

And that's called punishing the rich :rofl: