Greek Unions Take to the Streets

[TBF]

Reports vary currently from 50-70K in downtown Athens. Solidarity, workers of Greece, thank you for showing us how it's done.


Greek unions have begun a 48-hour general strike, as parliament prepares to vote on new austerity measures designed to avoid a default that could trigger a crisis in the eurozone. The biggest protest in years has shut government departments, businesses, public services and even providers of everyday staples, such as shops and bakeries.

The strike will culminate in mass demonstrations outside parliament, which was the scene of violent clashes in June. Greece has faced three years of recession and its economy will contract by a further 5% this year. Public debt stands at 162% of gross domestic product and youth unemployment has hit 42%...

More here: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1019/greece.html

KKE Comments:

In a press conference on Monday 17th October the General Secretary of the CC of KKE, Aleka Papariga, called on the people to militant activity for the rejection of the barbaric draft law which in fact abolishes the sectoral bargaining agreements in the private sector, dismisses thousands of employees in the public sector through the “labour reserve”, cuts the income of the public sector employees by 40% as well as basic and auxiliary pensions and the already low social benefits. She noted:

“We are addressing an urgent appeal to the Greek people, to the people who struggle and call on them to continue and those who have not yet entered the battle to do so now. Considerable time has been lost, actually from 1992 after the Treaty of Maastricht but also after 2008 when the clouds of the crisis gathered in Greece.

The most barbaric draft law is going to be voted on in the parliament, and if the conditions do not change it will not be the last. It is the most barbaric draft law even compared to the 20th century and the recent years...

More here: http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/2011-10-18-apergia1

[xchrom]

1. solidarity. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

2. Another one.......

One and two day strikes don't get much accomplished. I mean, I love the militancy of the Greek working class, but until the conditions are ripe for an INDEFINITE general strike, austerity will march on.

I'm also ready for some European co-ordination for these strikes. If you're going to do these one and two day events co-ordinate it all over the continent. That would REALLY show some solidarity.

However, since they're doing (and have been doing) SO MUCH MORE that we Americans, I ramain an admirer. Solidarity!

[blindpig]

3. Dunno about that this time.....

this is really big, possibilities abound.

If anything this will make clear that the banks will not get the money.

At this moment the Greeks are the vanguard of the world.

[socialist_n_TN]

7. "At the moment the Greeks are the vanguard of the world"

That is true.

However, my critique still stands about the scattered nature of these strikes and actions. Britian is doing a mass walkout on November 30th. They are expecting several million strikers from the public sector unions. The question is open whether any of the private sector unions break the law and wildcat with them. IF it crosses sector lines, it would be nice if the Greeks ALSO joined in on that date. ANYTHING to turn this into an international crisis all across Europe.

[readmoreoften]

42. I think it already is a crisis and I see no evidence that it's going to slow.

The austerity measures are unstoppable without revolution at this point. Europe's economy is going to collapse. And we're going to be hit with a new wave of depression and austerity after it does.

One of the issues in Greece is that the CP is conservative and Stalinist (so much so that the fascists have stated that they don't mind working with them) and sectarian, and another is that the rest of Europe still thinks they're in a better boat than Greece.

It's going to take time for the left to coalesce. Moving from a trade-union consciousness to a proletarian consciousness is going to take hard work and constant agitation from the left all across Europe.

[socialist_n_TN]

44. Don't disagree with any of this, but that still doesn't

change the need for co-ordination. It would be ESPECIALLY important if, for no other reason, than to begin a start at working on projects in an international fashion. Sure it would mean working in a united front with some distasteful characters, but even the Bolsheviki worked with the Mensheviks and SRs to defeat Kornilov. :)

Anti austerity and anti capitalist forces need to unite for at least co-ordinated actions occasionally. And surely there are anti groups even in France and Germany. It doesn't have to be super co-ordinated, at least at first, for it to be effective and MOST importantly, good training for future more serious actions.

Eventually a socialist revolution WILL succeed somewhere in Europe and it would be nice to have a framework in place for mutual support for that fledgling socialist state. I'd also approach the Latin American countries that are left leaning for assistance. Co-ordinated actions now, would help to lay the groundwork for this mutual assistance.

But then I've always been an optimist. :)

[readmoreoften]

40. How can you organize for larger strikes if you don't participate in smaller strikes? Dialectics

mean that you have to participate in non-revolutionary and reform movements in order to build a revolutionary movement. An indefinite general strike in Greece would do little without a proletariat organized well enough to seize the state. They can only do that successfully if they know that there would be no military intervention if a worker's party seized the state.

We are at the end of 30 years of reaction, not at the beginning of a revolution. The left is still incredibly weak and is still reorganizing. There already was a pan-European coordinated strike action back in 2010. Of course we're ready for something larger, but it's idealist to assume that it's going to happen because we desire it or even because we desperately need it. It will happen when the conditions on the ground are fertile, and they're still not.

Within the year--probably even coming months--there will likely be larger actions, but right now unfortunately is a time for building armies, not winning victories. Solidarity!

[socialist_n_TN]

45. Ah, but there ARE strikes all across Europe

They're just not in all countries yet and the timing is scattered in the countries where they are happening. But when you have strikes and actions in Greece, Italy, Britian, Spain and SERIOUS protest actions in several other countries, it's not idealistic to think that a loose organization working in a united front across national borders could co-ordinate these strike actions occasionally. It would be good training for more serious pan European actions in the future.

Co-ordinated actions would NOT have to be the precursor to an immediate revolution. They could be just what they are, co-ordinated actions that show the proletariat it's POTENTIAL power.

I still don't think that it would stop the austerity measures anywhere though. So in that I'm not being idealistic. Only a Pan European socialist revolution will be able to do that. The best these strikes can hope for is to slow the austerity train. But DAMN, if you're going to make the effort to strike against an international capitalist conspiracy to steal from the working class, you might as well do the best you can to make the reaction to it international also.

[blindpig]

4. News report from RT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1clq1yVlIS4

[TBF]

5. Thank you for this -

it's hard to find any news reports here that are not filled with PASOK propaganda. Also interesting that the US (if this message board is any indication) has very little interest in these protests, although our own situation is not so different with great debt and austerity measures only getting started. I guess things will have to get much worse here before awareness sets in.

[socialist_n_TN]

6. Well we're about two years behind the Greek situation

IMO. Whether we react like the Greeks have in a couple of years is also an open question. I appreciate the info because it gives me a foretaste of what's going to happen next here, at least from the "austerity" forces.

[blindpig]

8. Protests in Athens get violent

Protests in Athens get violent

Greek workers' anger over austerity measures boiled over outside parliament today, as demonstrators hurled chunks of marble and petrol bombs at riot police, who attacked them with tear gas and stun grenades.

At least 100,000 people marched through Athens on the first day of a two-day general strikes.

Most of the protesters marched peacefully, but crowds outside parliament clashed with police who tried to disperse them with repeated rounds of tear gas.

A petrol bomb set fire to a sentry post and running clashes broke out in several side streets near the capital's main Syntagma Square.

more....

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/content/view/full/110942

[formercia]

9. Violence is not "how it's done."

Never use violence.

[flamingdem]

11. The Europeans seem to favor violence

Is that what it takes over there?

[formercia]

12. What has violence achieved for them?

besides putting them deeper in the hole.

[socialist_n_TN]

13. I'm not advocating violence, but I do have a question

What has NON violence done for us here? Besides putting us deeper in the hole?

Again I state, the only violence I believe in is in self defense of myself, others and my class.

[BOG PERSON]

21. there's not just one hole, but many different kinds of holes

[JVS]

46. Healthcare

[blindpig]

14. The State uses violence to maintain the illegitimate status quo...

are we to remain helplessly servile forever?

[Cal Carpenter]

23. Exactly. Violence is BEING done

all over the world, all over this country, all the time. Literal beatdowns, imprisonment, bombs and guns, hunger, there is physical assault by the ruling class against the rest of the world all day every day.

Only a few lucky people are left who can pretend that isn't the case.

How long can people go without fighting back?

[formercia]

25. As long as it takes.

Be witness to it. Document it. Identify the perpetrators. Testify against them in Court.

[TBF]

28. Testify against them in Court? Who's court? Good lord ... nt

[Cal Carpenter]

29. Exactly

If we try to 'witness' things, we get thrown in jail. Just ask the journalists who've been arrested or the legal observer who was run over by a cop in NYC.

The courts don't work for us. See: Citizens United

[formercia]

26. Perhaps you should study the Civil Rights Movement of the 50's and 60's

It's a good primer on how to get things done.

[Cal Carpenter]

30. And how are socio-economic conditions for black people today?

Oh yeah, like the rest of us, they are declining. And for most black people, things never got much better in the interim anyway.

Romanticizing symbolic victories of the past aren't going to help us figure out real, lasting solutions for the present and the future.

I don't claim to know what the solutions are, but I do know that more of the same ain't it.

[TBF]

33. What exactly did you accomplish - the gap between rich and poor is wider than ever. nt

[TBF]

15. I dunno, sweet-talking doesn't seem to be working real good so far ...

we've all seen how well our President has been able to "reason" and "compromise" with the repugs ...

In contrast, the French Revolution worked quite well.

I'll leave it at that.

[white_wolf]

17. The French Revolution worked well in the long term, the short term it sucked.

Robespierre, the Terror, Napoleon, restoration of the Bourbon kings. However, looking at the long term shows a different story. France is one of the few European nations with no nobility and the government is still scared of pissing the people off too much.

[white_wolf]

16. "Never use violence." Why so absolute?

It isn't something that should be celebrated and should only be done as a last resort, but it may eventually be necessary. Let's take American history for example, do you think it was wrong for the colonies to use violence, was it wrong for the U.S. to fight the Civil War to end slavery and preserve the Union?

[TBF]

19. I didn't like the violence of the colonies against the indigenous folks -

civil war was a different story. As you say - it's not an "absolute".

Personally I'm not a violent sort, but I can see the writing on the wall when pushing back against capital. It is the only threat they understand, and self-defense is morally just in my book (as in the freeing of the slaves and in saving this earth from capitalism - which for many is just another form of slavery). I would LOVE for the congress to wake up and start passing people-friendly laws as opposed to putting profits first, but I've been watching for a long time and I don't see it happening.

[white_wolf]

20. When I mentioned the colonies I was specifically talking about the war against England.

Our treatment of the Natives was terrible and it will always be blackmark on this country's history. I am not a violent person either, I in fact despise it. I just realize that it some circumstances it may be necessary. I too would love to see Congress start passing laws to set us on the road to democratic socialism, I'm a big fan of Eugene' Debs's old Socialist Party, but I just don't have any faith in Congress. Honestly, I think in a lot of ways our governmental system is outdated.

[Cal Carpenter]

31. Btw, the vast majority of the action today in Greece

is STRIKING, not violence. It is withholding their labor.

That is what is working, that is what shows those in power who really has the ability to get things done (or not).

[Warpy]

10. We're still just a bit too comfortable to do that here.

However, more Republicans in government would surely accomplish it.

[TBF]

22. I dunno about that -

some are comfortable for sure, but the income gap is as unequal now as it was in the 1920s. The protests have just started here, so as SNT stated above we are about 2 years behind ... as more people lose their jobs/homes/savings this becomes our reality too.

These numbers don't lie:


http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

[Cal Carpenter]

18. Video of (not horrible, LOL) news coverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02aa2g3i8Pc&feature=player_embedded

[blindpig]

24. 700,000 on the streets of Athens

think about that

[Cal Carpenter]

37. In a city of 3 million

That's 23% of the population in the streets.

Wow.

[Starry Messenger]

27. k&r

[999998th word]

32. Different post says Pappandreau passed that shit.

Is that the last word ?

How is the protest dog ?

[TBF]

34. First reading today - they will pass it tomorrow. Strikes will continue tomorrow.

Greece MPs back austerity plans amid mass protests - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15377398

[Cal Carpenter]

36. Riot Dog!

Haven't seen him show up in any footage from today but here is an awesome video compilation of pics of him

Once Upon a Time In Athens: The Legend of The Riot Dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFd0hztEUWk

[999998th word]

38. Thanks for link-Riot Dog Loukanikos=WIN

I didn't see this set, but saw some last summer. One post said he went missing-I looked for dates on these and didn't see a current one.

I hope he stays OK.

[socialist_n_TN]

39. You know he's got a FB page don't you?

Comrade Louk is quite the world figure. :)

[999998th word]

43. Small cottage industry. Tshirts etc, 'Riot Dog Hates the IMF!

Yes I found that too !! Love that story. OWS has mascots too-all of the pets of the 99% :D

Animal lover here!!

[TBF]

47. Delete - wrong spot ...

[fascisthunter]

35. Kala!

[leftstreet]

41. K&R

[TBF]

48. Update -

KKE's statement re the 2nd day of striking: http://inter.kke.gr/News/news2011/2011-10-202mera /

Another force in the strikes - PAME: http://www.pamehellas.gr/content_fullstory.php?pg=1&lan...

Anarchist protesters attack communists with reportedly one death - http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/greece-faces-day-general-strike-14775779

(regarding the death - reportedly a construction worker who likely belonged to PAME - I have no source to cite it is word of mouth. no other details on him but presumably more will come out later)

[socialist_n_TN]

49. That last article's headline is disappointing

to say the least. Although the article doesn't seem to be available anymore.

Anytime I see "anarchist" in a headline though, I wonder about police infiltration. But if true, it would seem to be time for a united front against austerity and capitalism, NOT time to violently rehash old grievances amongst the revolutionary left. And this from a Trotskyist who Stalin would have shot.

I'd watch the Stalinists like a hawk of course, but as long as they're actively the enemy of my enemy, I'd temporarily let bygones be bygones.

[TBF]

50. Comrade,

it is very disappointing. I asked the same thing about police infiltration and my respondent who is Greek said that there certainly were infiltrators but that the anarchists had posted something about this attack on their website. So, that is what I've heard.

The article is AP - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GREECE_FINANCIAL_CRISIS?SITE=CACRU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (hopefully this one will stay up!)
And another one: http://www.ikners.com/?p=33988

Appreciate everything else you said, you know I want cooperation.