Car companies getting rid of spare tires in some new cars

[Sherman A1]

(KMOV) -- A growing number of car companies are changing the standard of providing spare tires in new models of their vehicles.

Hyundai, Chevy and Cadillac are among the growing list of companies doing away with spare tires.

Car-focused website, www.edmunds.com reports that 14% of 2011 car models don't come equipped with spare tires.

Many companies have decided to get rid of the tires to cut costs and to fulfill some driver's desires for lighter, more fuel efficient cars.

Instead of providing the spares, car companies are now opting for replacing the tires with tire sealant fix-it kits.

The kits only work for small holes in a tire's tread, but car makers say their roadside assistance plans should cover major problems.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Car-companies-getting-rid-of-spare-tires-in-some-new-cars-132226138.html


While there may be logic to the car companies argument, I just don't think I would like driving without a spare and it comes across as simply a way for them to cut costs to me.

[Dover]

1. Yep. I don't have any real world experience with flats on the road.

Have never had to change one the old fashioned way, or with the new sealant kits, OR ever had to call the roadside
assistance. So I cannot comment on the effectiveness of one over the other. But I will agree that cost cutting is likely at the bottom of it.
At the very least I think the companies should provide a 'real' spare tire as an add-on or option.

[dionysus]

18. the "spare" isn't really a spare tire, it's a small, temporary tire oft referred to as a donut.

to change a tire, you first take off the hubcab and loosen the 5 lug nuts holding the tire on, then raise the car on a jack, finish taking the nuts off.

then you put the donut on, tighten the nuts half way, lower the car, finish tightening the bolts.

it's easy.

it can be a pain in the ass if your tire has rusted to the wheel though.

[Dover]

45. Thanks for the instructions. I don't doubt it's pretty easy and straight forward.

I've just never had a flat and had to do it. If I were to have a flat, I'm in favor of having a donut or spare on hand, rather than
counting on someone to rescue me or using the sealant.

[EOTE]

49. There are still a few cars that offer a full size spare.

I've got a Subaru with one, it sure is reassuring knowing that if I have a blowout, I've got a tire that's an actual replacement.

And I wouldn't loosen the lug nuts until the car is raised, at least a little. That seems like a good way to strip the tread on your bolts/lug nuts.

[Lance_Boyle]

87. never loosen or tighten lug nuts with the wheel off the ground

the widowmaker jacks that come with most cars makes doing so even more dangerous than with a real jack.

[EOTE]

89. I usually lift it enough so there's little weight on the tire, but the tire doesn't rotate freely.

That way the wheel won't rotate when loosening the lug nuts. But if there's 1000+ lbs of weight on the bolts when you loosen the nuts, it could strip them or screw them up badly. And you definitely don't want to tighten them with the car on the ground, you'll never get a good tightening done that way.

[dkf]

94. Yeah the wheel turns anyway iirc.

[tammywammy]

104. Volkswagen does

My previous car (2006 Beetle TDI) and my current 2009 Tiguan had/has a full sized spare.

[Sherman A1]

113. Wish they all did so

That would be a good thing in my opinion. I never liked those goofy donuts.

[snooper2]

51. it's a temporary small tire, unless you buy a real vehicle

Like a Jeep or a Dakota :) :P

[Atman]

103. A Dakota is a real vehicle?

Wafer-thin plastic? It's big, I'll give you that...but so is turd after a night of eating barbecue.

[snooper2]

114. 235hp, 295lbs of torque factory, lights up the tires for 20 ft

couple light mods :)

pulls a 5-6000lb trailer no problem- mechanically strong

Of course the interior is cheap and Dodge has never figured out how to make a proper ball joint but thats another story - oh, and the 13.7mpg average :P

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

95. Cost, weight, and space

This saves all three. If there's no spare, then of course there's no jack and no tire iron, so even more savings.

I wouldn't feel safe on a road trip without throwing a spare into the trunk.

[REP]

102. My car doesn't even have a trunk (or rear seats)

But I do have a donut and jack under the floor of the hatch. I don't think you could get a full-size spare in my tiny car! Plus I have two sizes of wheels...

[dkf]

2. I'm not sure I am capable of changing a tire.

I'm kind of wimpy. A tow truck sounds good.

[Codeine]

7. Changing a tire is super-easy.

I'm a scrawny guy and I have changed several, even on the side of the Hollywood freeway on two occasions -- it's really nothing. The leverage from the length of the lug wrench obviates the need for any particular physical strength, and the jack usually uses a screw mechanism to lift which again puts physics on your side.

The only real physical effort might come from tossing the full-sized blown-out tire in the trunk, but that's probably in the range of twenty pounds; if you can put a big bag of groceries in your trunk you can change a tire. And it feels good to know you can handle it when it becomes necessary. :)

[dkf]

9. I think I did it in the garage once before, but I almost couldn't undo the lug nuts.

Using all my weight wasn't enough. I had to extend it to create extra leverage by linking the hex end to the lug remover bar. Then I jumped on it with all my weight.

If I hadn't had the extra tool it would have been a no go.

[hlthe2b]

14. Tire dealer probably used an automated wrench to tighten lug nuts too tight...

I always remind those working on my tires, that, while I surely want them securely tightened, to please don't overtighten. Experienced folks know better than to do this, but when you give a guy an automated tool, well....:evilgrin:


;)

[dkf]

69. Lol. Funny thing is my ex is a mechanic but this never occurred to me.

Thanks!

[Sherman A1]

83. True

I have found it's best to just break loose the lug nuts before jacking the car up. Just enough so that you are certain that they will unscrew, sometimes this requires giving the lug wrench a good kick, but it's better than rolling the car off the jack while attempting same.

[MedicalAdmin]

55. When you get your tires changed or worked on next time.

Make sure that you specify that you want the tires hand tightened. It is difficult to get them off when some lug headed dipshit uses and inpact hammer to put them back on. Odin couldn't get that loosened easily.

That's why I think you were having problems. I also carry a small can of WD40 back with the tire, just in case I need it to get things moving in case of rust.

It's easy once you know some of the tricks. Unless you weight less than 40 pounds you CAN do this.

[dkf]

68. Smart! Good to know. Thanks.

[EOTE]

93. Do not listen to that advice. It's VERY dangerous.

Read my reply to it.

[EOTE]

92. DO NOT ASK FOR YOUR LUG NUTS TO BE HAND TIGHTENED!!

That's extremely dangerous advice to give. Unless you want to be tireless on the highway, that's very poor advice to give. You need many pound feet of torque to get lug nuts tightened properly. That simply cannot be done with one's hands. It's MUCH better to have your lug nuts overly tightened rather than undertightened. Please don't dispense such advice without knowing what you're talking about.

[jmowreader]

99. You need 90 lb-ft torque for most lug nuts

If you have a 3/4-ton or 1-ton pickup, you need 150 lb-ft because the bolt is larger.

Either way, you can easily do that with a 1/2-inch click-type torque wrench.

If you have a Kenworth...yes, you tighten the shit out of those--the spec is 500 lb-ft, which is one of the reasons semis don't carry spare tires anymore. (If you gotta call someone to have him bring a jack and an impact wrench, you might as well have him bring a new tire too.) But on a car? Yes, you can tighten lug nuts by hand.

[EOTE]

101. How the hell are you going to get 90lbs of torque using your hand?

That's 90 lbs of force at 1 foot distance. That simply can't be done by hand. Sure, you can do that with a wrench, not by hand. Air wrenches typically don't go much above torque spec to begin with. Hand tightening is just plain stupid and wreckless.

[MedicalAdmin]

117. Well if you weight 90 lbs and you lean down on the end of the wrench.

that would be 90 pounds. As I corrected, use a torque wrench (or rather have your mechanic do it).

The problem, especially with smaller women, is that if they have a blowout on a street at night and help is far away and their cell phone isn't working, that if the lugs are overtightened then they will NOT be able to get that tire off and get out of their and on their way.

And that too is a problem. Hand tightening, done properly is perfectly fine. Unless you are suggesting that for the entire history of cars that hand tightening was always a bad idea, no?

[EOTE]

122. But that's not "hand tightening". Hand tightening is tightening with your hands.

By your definition of "hand tightening", you could have a 6 foot wrench and easily put WAY more torque than is specified, putting you in the same position you would had the mechanic used an "impact hammer". Using a wrench is fine, but you want to put a good amount of weight on it from a decent distance.

[MedicalAdmin]

139. You and I define it differently.

Perhaps this is because I was raised in the commonwealth. Hand tightened means tightened with hand tools as opposed to with power tools.

Still, good call on cautioning against my OP.

[jmowreader]

149. "Hand tightening" means the technician uses a torque wrench

I thought you knew that.

It is opposed to putting the nuts on to 200-300 lb-ft with an impact wrench like the guys at the tire store like to do.

[MedicalAdmin]

115. Sorry about that. I should have clarified.

In my haste I forgot to define hand tightened. By hand tightened I mean that it should be torqued via torque wrench to the specified factor recommendations.

Good catch on your part and I feel stupid for having missed that. My mechanic does all the tires in his shop that way and of course the problem with putting tires on with an impact hammer is that they often overtighten making it almost impossible to get the nuts loosened in case of a flat.

Further advice on hand tightening. After 50 miles you should get out your lug wrench and go around and make sure that all the nuts are still tight.

Again thank for catching my mistake.

[EOTE]

123. That's the correct procedure.

And yes, it's a very good idea to retighten after a few miles. Unfortunately, I knew someone who really did hand tighten his bolts when putting on a spare. It was about 10 minutes later that the spare was rolling down the highway. It was a very scary situation for him.

[Aerows]

33. I'm female, 5'3" and am petite

I've changed tires twice - once on a little subcompact, and once on a gigantic old Buick when my friend got a flat at the grocery store. For whatever reason, she's a lot bigger than I am, but it took me to change the tire on her car. LOL.

It's really easy.

[Lionessa]

77. I'm a little taller but just as petite, I imagine, and similarly

my 6'2" Amazon friend couldn't break the lug nuts loose...because she was trying to do so like a man would. My father made sure I could change a tire, and because of my size & weight, taught me to stand on the wrench after applying it to the nuts. SO it wasn't that I was stronger or bigger than she, but simply had already been helped in finding ways to work around my size.

PS to be sure the spare doesn't come un-bolted, I also stand on the wrench to re-tighten.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. You made me laugh

We changed a tired in one of these



Using that method to loosen and tighten the lugs. I am 5.1, my partners was 5.3....

[RebelOne]

70. Neither am I. That's why I have AAA. n/t

[Xithras]

85. It's not even a matter of capability.

My wife is perfectly capable of changing a tire, but she's still called AAA for both of her last flats. Tires are dirty, jacking a minivan into the air on a roadside shoulder can be risky, and she just doesn't feel like messing with it. It's simpler to just call the roadside service and play Angry Birds until he shows up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Oh in a car, easy peachy

Now the ambulance was trickier but still done.

[malaise]

144. My first boyfriend loved cars and he taught me how to

change a tire. One day about three decades ago I was walking in the neighborhood and this lady's car had a flat(I knew her from the flower shop around the corner). She was totally confused and I changed it for her. She was so surprised that a young lady could change it that she sent me a thank you note with flowers. What's more, for years anytime I went into the shop she gave me a discount and told people that I once changed her tire.

I didn't think it was a big deal.

[MrScorpio]

3. I'm not a fan of this at all

Spares have saved my ass on more than one occaision

[Blue_Tires]

59. It's just a cost/weight savings for the automaker

I've had all three experiences:

Current car (Ford)--Flat tire, but the sealant repair kit that came with the car wouldn't inflate the tire, so I needed a tow

Previous car (Chevrolet)--Put the donut on, no problems

First car (Chevrolet)--Couldn't take the tire off because the lugwrench THAT CAME WITH THE TRUCK was a different size from the bolts...Needed a tow

[hlthe2b]

4. Most of the flat tires I have experienced would not have been repaired by

fix-a-flat. Further, I can't tell you how many times AAA has been so backed up that I would have waited hours--particularly in inclement weather or rural areas. Not to mention, this would require a flat bed haul, rather than a tow truck, if the tire were blown out and you wanted to save the wheel. Again, a potential problem in rural areas or those experiencing a lot of weather related AAA calls.

WOMEN, in particular should think very hard about whether you want to be this vulnerable. Personally, I'd never buy a car that did not provide at least the emergency spare.

[Sherman A1]

8. Agreed

I have had to change a few through the years and while I never enjoy it. I simply don't want to be without a spare.

[taterguy]

5. BFD, My bicycle doesn't come equipped with a spare tire and you don't hear me whining

[Sherman A1]

10. Does your bicycle do 60+mph on the highway?

and a car is not that easy to carry to the side of the road or to a repair shop, but have it your way......

[WinkyDink]

12. You will, if a tire-sealent-sealed tire blows out right next to you.

[dionysus]

20. i do right now.

:shrug:

[Javaman]

35. Mine comes with a spare tube, which is basically a spare tire. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

56. You are whining right now.

Just sayin'.

[Gormy Cuss]

62. That's the SLIMEiest response from you ever. n/t

[taterguy]

109. Oh FFS

My post # 13,457 was far slimier.

:eyes:

[backscatter712]

74. I've had flats riding my bike. Not much fun.

Of course, there's not much room on a bicycle for a spare tire, but at least you can walk your bike to some place with an air pump, or a bike shop where you can buy an inner tube. That's much harder with a car.

[Marrah_G]

120. I think cars and bicycles are a little different.

[GoCubsGo]

6. I was told by a tire dealer to never use a hole repair sealant

He said they ruin the tires. I sure hope these kits they want to put in new cars aren't the same thing. But, it still sounds like a really stupid idea to me.

[hobbit709]

30. they don't really ruin the tire

the mechanics hate having to wash the remaining goop out of the tire when the repair the tire.
And if you've ever had a flat out in the middle of nowhere you'd be glad that you kept a can of Fix-A-flat in the trunk.

[Javaman]

37. +1 nt

[Kolesar]

75. Good idea! eom

[WinkyDink]

11. Get it? A spare WILL be offered to you AT AN ADDITIONAL COST. Next: mats.

[Shagbark Hickory]

34. Floor mats have been always been extra.

[MedicalAdmin]

57. Followed by the steering wheel. n/t

[The Doctor.]

80. Any negotiator can use that.

"Wait, what? This car has no spare? Oh, sorry, I'm not interested."

Start to walk away and see how fast the salesperson offers to throw one in for 'free'.

"But where do I put it? There isn't a special space for it. I need the trunk space. I'm sorry, I'm still not interested."

Then see what happens to the price. After that, they'll try and get you into another car.

"You know, I've spent way too much time here. If I don't get 15% off sticker, I'll be on my way."


Play hardball, you'll get what you want.

[madokie]

13. We went through this same shit back in the '70s and '80s

and when some did include spares they were tiny little pieces of shit that were dangerous as hell especially if the flat you had was on the rear of the vehicle. Hell the junk yards are still full of those little pieces of shit tires as no one wants them.

[NYC_SKP]

15. Buy a spare, throw it in your trunk, problem solved.

You're welcome.

:donut:

But, seriously, I don't think it's to save money (their cost: $22.37), I think it's to save space and weight and meet CAFE standards for fuel efficiency.

Also, motorcycles don't have spares but often have flats.

The truth is that, given proper maintenance and care and road hazards notwithstanding, tires get flats far less frequently than in the past so there are fewer cases in which they are needed.

Except for poorer people who can't always afford proper tire care or newer tires, etc., but then they aren't buying these new cars.

So, in the end, for those really worried, buying a spare is a reasonable solution.

:P

[MindPilot]

16. These days tires are probably one of the least likely things to fail

Looking back over the times a car has quit on me, it's been things like timing belt, radiator hose, clutch, and one very memorable and rather spectacular rod-through-the-block. But never a tire.

[Codeine]

17. I had a lot of failures for a while, but I was buying used tires.

These days I can afford actual new tires, but sometimes a twenty dollar used tire is easier to swing. Of course, when it disintegrates at 70MPH on the freeway you start to question what you've saved. . .

[dionysus]

23. i've never had one fail on it's own, but have had them go due to running over screws many a time.

[hlthe2b]

54. Really? They must not do road construction near where you live...

Summers are road construction nightmares for most of the West. Commuting I-25 one year, I went through three tires.

And now that fall is here and all the Denver neighborhoods are undergoing roofing repairs before winter, you can be sure there are some great big errant roofing nails that will find you if you are so unlucky.

:shrug:

[dionysus]

61. when i had my roof replaced, they were careful catching everything in tarps, nonetheless, i was find

ing roofing nails in wierd placesfor a looong time.

[Kolesar]

76. Brakes, transmission, and a coil spring

Last "flat" we had was in 2005 with a rented "jeep" that I drove on a nasty shoulder in another state.

The exception would be those infamous Firestone Wilderness ATs from the 1990s

[hobbit709]

19. It was bad enough when they replaced the spare with those donut tires.

[dionysus]

21. this will date me, but they actually used to provide full size spares?

[Codeine]

22. My '93 Corolla has a full-sized spare.

I was actually shocked when I popped the trunk to pull out the donut and found an actual real-life spare tire.

[dionysus]

27. damn. my buicks and fords never had a full size spare. it'd be nice. when i was broke in college, i

once rode on the donut for 3 months. :(

[n2doc]

24. My 04 jeep has a full sized spare n/t

[hobbit709]

25. The only car I owned that had a donut.

I went down to the junkyard, bought a full sized rim, went down to my corner mechanic and bought a good used tire and threw it in the trunk.
the main problem with those damned donuts was that you weren't supposed to drive them more than a few miles. Here in TX you can easily be up to a 100 miles from anything.

[dionysus]

28. so that time i had a donut on the rear wheel for 3 months was bad?

:P

[hobbit709]

31. among other things it fucks up your alignment.

[dionysus]

36. that was ok.. shortly after i eventually put a real tire on there, a drunk in a F-350 hit me head on

and totalled the poor buick :(

[Sherman A1]

29. Yup,

I remember the 5 tire rotation diagrams in the owners handbooks, so I too am dated.....:hi:

[MedicalAdmin]

58. Yup,, that dates you.

All cars used to have full sized replacements. Then came donuts (which at first were a danger to life and limb), and now a can of goop +air.

Next they'll suggest this.

[Brother Buzz]

65. A full size spare that was included in the tire rotation

back when radial tires were only found on those funny European imports. That dates me.

[jberryhill]

81. Oh yeah... and it was included in the rotation

Who rotates their tires anymore?

[Brother Buzz]

118. The old guy down the street that still runs bias ply tires on his '62 Falcon

[mikeytherat]

116. Not only that - if your other four wheels were alloy rims, often the wheel on the spare was, too.

Good times.

mikey_the_rat

[DainBramaged]

26. oh the outrage

Olive Garden, AppleBees, Cigarettes, breastfeeding, circumcision, narwhals, pit bulls, smoking bans,

Elliot Spritzer, High school bands, soda pop and food stamps, kids on planes, drinking caffeine, bombing the moon, tax fast food, Rapture,

PETA, Vaccinations, orange juice, Jessie James, Ipads, Michael Vicks, Octomom, unicorns and Charlie Sheen,

we didn't hate the Weiner, 2 Broke Girls are the new screaming kids in restaurants, we didn't inflate the spare.......

[hobbit709]

32. Come down to TX

Where you can see a sign on the highway when you leave some little town and it says "No Gas or Services Next 87 Miles"

I don't drive in West TX without a real spare, a can of Fix-a-Flat, and at least a gallon jug of water in the trunk. You can be 20 miles from the nearest phone in some areas and you're so far out in the boonies you'll probably have reception problems on the cell phone. Especially out in the Davis Mts. or in Big Bend.

[DainBramaged]

40. I understand your plight. Most dealers are ordering their inventory with spares

All you have to do is look on the window sticker and if it doesn't have a spare, buy another car.....it's that simple. People who buy a car without one, reading the window sticker and two, not taking it for a test drive are subject to their own folly down the road......

[hobbit709]

42. The closest to a new car I ever bought was a two year old model.

Usually because I couldn't afford a new one.

[DainBramaged]

43. This only started with the 2011 models for GM, simply check the trunk

no spare, walk away. It used to be by law there had to be a jack and spare in the trunk before the dealer could sell the car, but in the interest of penny pinching and weight reduction, the manufacturers slipped in the law change in many states. Now, if the tire fails catastrophically, you get flatbed, and when your roadside assistance expires, you're fucked.

[Divine Discontent]

38. you're JOKING! they are being cheap....

plain n' simple! a donut isn't THAT worrisome to MPG. What can it cost them to include one in a new car, $15? sheesh...


Get it here now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486eping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. Rather than skimp on essential equipment, they should just use the same efficient engines they use

in Europe.

And quit building engines to the oil companies specifications.

[DainBramaged]

41. Folks, if the car doesn't have a spare, move on to the next one that does, it's that simple

When every pound counts to increase gas mileage, would you rather they cu down on the side impact bars or foot well protection?

[LanternWaste]

47. And should the trend continue

And should the trend continue, moving on to the next one will result in the the same lack of safety... that seems pretty simple too. :shrug:

[Sherman A1]

48. +1, Agreed & Well Said!

:toast:

[RC]

44. I haven't had to change a flat tire in almost 40 years.

An air compressor will pump it up and get you where you can get it fixed.

[DainBramaged]

46. Slime kit, gave it to my sweetie and beautiful daughter

[Lionessa]

79. is there a pump in that kit? I can't tell.

[Sherman A1]

64. Assuming that it will hold air

if not a spare tire is an excellent safety device, in cars that are equipped with all sorts of safety devices.

[DainBramaged]

50. Meh

One more time, it's NOT standard, it is an option, and I noticed the article didn't mention Toyota or Ford who do the SAME THING. If you don't believe me get in your cars and go look at window stickers. Imagine, trying to put a 22" spare in the trunk of a new Camaro, Challenger, Corvette, Merceedes S class, BMW 7 series or Mustang GT..........which haven't had spares.


DU outrage, distraction at it's finest.

[MineralMan]

52. You wouldn't believe the number of cars I see around the

Twin Cities in MN that have a donut spare on one hub. People can't afford to replace the tire, so they drive on the donut. I saw one the other day with two donut spares on it. Folks with no money do what they must, but it's not a safe thing.

Note: Both of my cars have full-sized spares, and I carry a 24" 1/2" drive breaker bar with the appropriate socket in each car. I've helped a lot of people change tires when they couldn't get their lug nuts off, due to some moron with an impact wrench at the tire shop.

[FarCenter]

53. This is going to be a problem as highways deteriorate

Falling oil consumption due to unaffordable crude oil imports and greenhouse gas restrictions will mean that the oil refineries produce less hazardous toxic waste (aka asphalt) for use in paving highways.

As gas substitutes for oil, the price of cement will be going up as well.

Even today, you occasionally find a lineup of cars with flats after a repair plate has come loose or a chunk of concrete has dropped out of a bridge. These are particularly common on the new low-profile tires, and they are not fixable with a can of fix a flat.

[Sherman A1]

152. Agreed

A point I had not considered but certainly a very valid one. Tires, even the high quality ones of today, take a tremendous beating on our roads and it can take just one pot hole to do one in depending upon how you hit the thing.

[Doremus]

60. More and more we're looking like the USSR during the cold war

Their cars prolly had spare tires though. :eyes:

[Bandit]

63. When was the last time you had a flat tire you needed a spare for?

For me it has been well over twenty years....I could live without a spare tire..Tires now a days don't go flat near as often and in fact some don't go flat at all. :shrug:

[Gormy Cuss]

67. Two years ago

and the tire went flat after driving through a highway construction zone in a rural area with spotty cell phone signals. We would've been screwed without the donut tire.

[maxrandb]

66. It really sucks that they don't give you a "full-size" tire anymore

unless you pay through the nose for it.

There is an easy solution though...Where the hell is my Jetson's Car?

Wouldn't have to worry about a spare with that.

[Sherman A1]

88. Indeed

just where are the flying cars which we have been promised!!!!:hi:

[SheilaT]

71. In over 45 years of driving I've had exactly

two flat tires. One in 1976, the other three years ago. The recent one was a high-speed blow-out on I25 just a little north of Colorado Springs (I was on my way to Boulder). Luckily, I was already in the right-hand lane and could pull over to the shoulder very quickly. Called AAA, a truck showed up in about 45 minutes, they put on the donut, I headed back to a tire store the tow-truck driver told me was about ten miles away, and got 2 new tires right away. A couple of months later I got the other two replaced, which they needed by then.

If I were like some of the posters and lived many miles from any services, I would also want a real full-sized spare. The vast majority of my driving is in places where it's not that far from a tow-truck or garage or whatever. When I'm driving between here(Santa Fe) and Kansas City, I do go for several hundred miles in eastern New Mexico where there's nothing at all, but I'm not about to rearrange anything for the rare times I do that.

Cars today are so much safer and better built than they used to be. I can recall breakdowns and flat tires as a routine and expected part of car ownership back in the 50's and early 60's. No longer.

[DaveJ]

82. I agree, technology accounts for something

I'm sure there have been technological improvements over the years that make tires better than 50 years ago. Scientists who make tires better probably roll their eyes at people who still insist on having a spare. Like, their work is being totally rejected. And why not also include a spare radiator, transmission, fuel pump, engine, or whatever else might break while driving, if people expect a spare tire?

Ultimately these spare tires just consume fuel, and end up in the dump.

[SheilaT]

90. Yes. What hardly anyone here is bothering to pay attention to

is the fact that tires are incredibly better than they used to be. I believe that 20,000 miles was a lot back in the day, and now they're typically rated for 60-80,000 miles, some even more.

[Marrah_G]

127. I think it also depends on if you can afford timely maintence

I know for myself and alot of poorer folks, tires get changed when they blow or if you need them to pass inspection.

[iris27]

72. The lack of a spare was one of main reasons I stopped looking at Smarts when shopping

for a new car last year. Ended up with a Honda Insight instead. Turned out to be a good thing as we have already had to replace two tires. One was punctured by a huge drywall screw we somehow picked up on the road; the other was due to an overzealous curb check. I don't think the sealant kit would've worked in either case.

[Liberal_in_LA]

73. bad idea,imho

[The Doctor.]

78. Roadside assistance will cost them.

Without a spare, a $30-$50 tire change becomes a $150-$300 tow.

What percent of new cars get a flat in the first 2 years?

[Sherman A1]

106. Indeed

It will be an added cost.

[SharonAnn]

119. WIth lots of new construction, flats are a problem. In these economy? Maybe not.

[Romulox]

84. A large percentage of drivers do not/cannot change a tire themselves, and will call roadside ass't.

That this the logic of this move.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

96. Roadside assistance will gladly help you change your tire

if you have a spare.

:hi:

[Romulox]

121. They also have compressors and patch kits. And the ability to tow. nt

[The Doctor.]

145. Not really.

Many roadside assistance companies only send out small cars for jumps, flats, unlocks, and fuel. It's way to expensive to run a flatbed or wrecker for little $30-$60 calls.

My friend runs such a business, and although he does have a compressor and a plug kit, there's nothing he can do about the sidewall but tell them to call for a tow.

[jakeXT]

86. I had the impression it's to offer more trunk space, noticed it in the new BMW 5 series (F10) /nt

[tammywammy]

105. I had a full-seized spare in my 2006 VW Beetle

It was completely under the floorboard of the trunk, so it didn't effect trunk space at all. I also have a full-sized spare in my VW Tiguan.

[0rganism]

91. you now get a patch & sealant kit? how about an air compressor?

WTF? this is such a load of crap. so now you get stuff to fix your tire if it gets a flat, how are you supposed to pressurize it?

Oh, that's right, you pay extra for the "roadside assistance plan" and hope you have coverage (and a phone) wherever your tire busts.

Such a scam.

[EOTE]

97. The sealant typically comes pressurized.

It's under high pressure in the can. A can can inflate the typical tire with no issues.

[Atman]

107. I had a can of that shit blow up inside my car once.

I bought a can to have as an emergency resource, left it under the seat of the car. On a hot summer day, it overheated and exploded inside the car. The entire inside of the car was encased in a plastic-like film. Everything. But the passenger compartment didn't leak anymore.

.

[Lucian]

98. That's how they get you.

Take away the spare tire so you're supposed to sign up for their roadside assistance plans.

:eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

100. I had no choice but to learn how to change a flat tire when I was stranded on a country road

and no one around for miles and miles. That was before cell phones were invented. It's EASY if you can get the damn nuts off the wheel. Being a weakling woman...it took me standing and jumping on the wrench to even budge the nuts, but I did it because I HAD TO. :) I taught my son how to change a tire. Now every Spring he takes off his winter tires and puts on the regular ones and in the winter he changes them again. You really need to know how to change a tire. It's important. Maybe not as important now that everyone has a cell phone, but what if you're stranded somewhere with no signal? Roadside assistance means diddley-squat if you can't call them.

I would want to have a spare tire as an option to buy. I don't think I'd want to drive without one.

[LadyInAZ]

108. OML

Well wont happened to me... I'm the type I always have a fully functional full-size spare tire handy... when you live in the deserts tires tend to blow out faster in the extreme heat... i don't change tires myself... lol but i will keep a spare, wrench and jacket for help that do arrive...

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

124. Has anyone mentioned the REAL reason for this? Fuel economy. nt

[Shagbark Hickory]

125. I think someone mentioned it in #39

[Romulox]

126. OK. That poster was on the right track, but misses the fact that consumers are free

to purchase cars with smaller engines and chose not to do so. :shrug:

[Shagbark Hickory]

128. How could you say they were missing the fact that ...

consumers are free to purchase cars with smaller engines when it is precisely those cars that are being sold without a spare tire?

[Romulox]

129. Oh no. There are smaller cars still that are available. Consumers have largely rejected them

Just who prevent YOU from purchasing a 3 cylinder 1.3 l Geo Metro, for example? Who is preventing YOU from doing so right now?

:shrug:

[Shagbark Hickory]

130. Do you bring up the metro because I posted about that car getting 52mpg?

The reason I can't buy a metro is because they no longer make anything nearly as efficient at the same price point.

The bottom line is the size of the vehicle doesn't matter so much as what's under the hood and right now, the VERY SAME mid sized cars are sold overseas with engines that get nearly double the mpgs.

There's only so many excuses that can be made for that.

[Romulox]

131. No. I bring it up as a cheap car with excellent MPG. That didn't sell.

It's also a car that, in it's 1.3L/3 cylinder configuration, is barely capable of freeway speeds (70 mph.)

"The reason I can't buy a metro is because they no longer make anything nearly as efficient at the same price point."

Um, reduce, reuse, RECYCLE? Buy a used one, or admit you weigh economy and the environmental against safety and comfort, and the GEO doesn't meet your needs. Because theses cars can easily be purchased, today, in 2011.

"The bottom line is the size of the vehicle doesn't matter so much as what's under the hood and right now, the VERY SAME mid sized cars are sold overseas with engines that get nearly double the mpgs."

That's 100% incorrect. Physics are what they are. Without exception, a heavier car is less efficient than a lighter car, all else held equal.

So. When will you be getting that GEO? :hi:

[EOTE]

133. Just a little nit. The 1.3 liter Metro was a 4 banger.

The 3 cylinder was a piddling 1 liters. And yes, the weight of the vehicle is typically a greater indicator of fuel economy than engine displacement/power. However, while there may not be any decent/cheap 50+ mpg cars available now, there are a number of good and cheap 40mpg vehicles. The new Elantra, Focus, Cruze and Mazda 3 all have 40mpg models and are all decent cars. If you want more torque and even better fuel economy, pick up a TDI VW, the new ones are a blast.

[Romulox]

135. Thanks for the correction. The 3 cylinder GEO is still without peer in MPG, if

I'm not mistaken.

Anyone who preaches the "they won't SELL us efficient cars" mantra should be driving one.

[EOTE]

136. Well, to be fair, they haven't been selling us efficient cars that anyone wants to drive...

At least until very recently. Europe has had many cars that get Metro fuel efficiency, but are actually well constructed and somewhat fun to drive. I think a lot of that has to do with Europe's embracing of clean diesel technologies while the U.S. has had an aversion to diesels since the 70s. It's a real shame because there are some really fantastic diesels available now. Just 5 years ago there were absolutely ZERO 40mpg cars I'd actually want to drive, now there are a number of them. I wouldn't be caught dead in a metro, but I'm fairly certain my next car will be a TDI.

[Shagbark Hickory]

137. Do you know how many MPGs the same Cruze gets with the overseas engine?

(The engine that, rumor has it, is going to FINALLLLY be used in the North Am. Cruze)

[EOTE]

140. Are you referring to the DI Diesel?

I'm not sure what it makes in European trim, but I heard that when it comes to the U.S., it should make around 51mpg. Even more importantly, it's got a crazy amount of torque (even more than the already torquey VW TDI). I'd imagine that car will be quite the performer.

[Shagbark Hickory]

147. 'atsa one matey.

62 mpg last I heard. Nor sure if that's imps or us gals.

[Romulox]

143. No, but I believe they have a 40 MPG Cruze for NA already.

I certainly hope you are converting for the difference between a british and a US gallon, btw. The UK gallon is bigger!

[EOTE]

146. I believe he's referring to the direct injected diesel.

That's been in use in Europe for quite a while. It gets around 51mpg in European trim. But more important than the fuel economy (at least, I'd imagine, for U.S. consumers), is its 250+lb/ft of torque. I'd imagine that diesel is rather quick.

[Sherman A1]

148. Interesting

It would be nice to get cars with that type of mileage here......

[EOTE]

153. It sure would.

And I think it will be happening sooner than later. America seems to be getting over its diesel-phobia. They're a great way to get hybrid fuel economy without much of the additional cost and complexity. Then when we start seeing diesel hybrids, we're going to see some incredible mileage.

[JVS]

151. This is a good point. A lot of stats for incredible overseas mileage are based on bad measurements.

I always check the German liters per 100 km stats

[Shagbark Hickory]

138. Gas was not $4 a gallon when Metro was on the market. Chevy Aveo is the replacement and from what I

hear, they're selling like hot cakes.
Despite the MPG being a joke IMO.

[JVS]

150. The person who made the decision to stop selling the Chevy Metro in the US back in 2001?

:shrug:

[Spider Jerusalem]

132. They've been doing this for a while in "economy cars"

that and also the move from a full-size spare to a small, temporary-use one are both in the interest of weight-saving; a small spare tyre and wheel weigh about 10 pounds, a full-size one as much as 25 or more. Weight savings = fuel savings.

[JohnnyRingo]

142. 'Vettes too.

The front and back are different sizes.

[garybeck]

134. I just yanked my spare tire and in that space I put a vegetable oil tank so I can drive without

Dick Cheney's OIL.

[JohnnyRingo]

141. When was the last time anyone actually dug the jack and spare out of the trunk?

Most people call for a tow or limp home on the flat. After all, a flat tire is almost always caused by a tire that has outlived it's useful life, and there's no danger of destroying a serviceable tire.

Now if someone is driving across the desert, a spare may be a lifesaver, but as Mario says: "check your tires". Many new perfomance cars have different sized tires front to back anyway, and Corvettes have gone with fix-a-flat years ago.

BTW, nothing kills a good tire like a can of sealant. A tow is cheaper in the long run.

[Sherman A1]

154. A friend did so yesterday because he ran over

a metal plate in the road.....