Libyan Revolution Week 35 part 4

[joshcryer]

[joshcryer]

1. Libyan Revolution Day 245 updates below, current time in Libya, 3:20pm Thursday, October 21

Thanks Mo.

[Iterate]

7. I am not afraid...

ShababLibya LibyanYouthMovement
"I am not afraid to DIE, I am afraid to LOSE THE BATTLLE" http://dai.ly/fDE3Nn #libya #gaddaficrimes #feb17 Feb 26
He inspired.

[Raksha]

50. Thank you, Mo. You will not be forgotten.

[catchnrelease]

123. Kicking for Mo

+++++

[pinboy3niner]

2. K&R

[tabatha]

3. The battle was not lost. Thanks to your efforts, Mo.

[pinboy3niner]

4. NTC leader Mustafa Jalil expected to address the Libyan people shortly

AJE (for one) has live coverage:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[al bupp]

6. CNN's been staying w/ the story all morning, as well /NT

[al bupp]

8. AJE showing video of dead Gaddafi

Looks pretty convincing to me.

[CJvR]

5. Despite...

...the excelent coverage of the Libyan chrisis in these threads I hope that no more are needed. Thanks for all your efforts during the long months of the Libyan war.

Perhaps you will even get + recommendations on this one.

[CJvR]

9. AlJaz death video...!

AlJaz just showed Gaddafi's corps video, looks like him allright - reporter almost speechless.

[al bupp]

11. CNN now also showing it

I think this report can be taken to the bank.

[pinboy3niner]

10. Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi believed still in desert -NTC

Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:40pm GMT

CAIRO Oct 20 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam is believed to be still at large in Libya's desert, a member of the National Transitional Council said on Thursday after NTC officials said the former Libyan leader had been found and killed.
...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK45H20111020

He is believed to be in the area of Bani Walid.

[pinboy3niner]

12. #US State dept official on #Gaddafi: “looks like he’s been killed, but..."

@JomanaCNN

#US State dept official on #Gaddafi :“looks like he’s been killed, but still awaiting official confirmation.” #Libya

1:53PM GMT

[tabatha]

13. Russia: Now peace will come to Libya

Speaking at a joint news conference with the Dutch PM, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the Libyan people should decide Gadhafi's fate. "We expect that peace will come to Libya, and all those ruling the state will be able to reach an agreement on the structure of the governing bodies. As for Gadhafi's personal fate, it is the Libyan people who should decide on it," he said, Russian state-run media reported.

ironic
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/africa/gadhafi-international-reaction/index.html?eref=edition_world&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fedition_world+%28RSS%3A+World%29

[Swede]

14. K&R

[pinboy3niner]

15. Reuters sees video of bloodied Gaddafi son Mo'tassim

Wounded but alive, Reuters reports. (Too short to excerpt.)

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK4W820111020

[al bupp]

16. AJE Reporting that Mu'atissim has been captured

No details yet.

[pinboy3niner]

17. Libya needs justice after Gaddafi --Amnesty Intl

Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:28pm GMT


LONDON Oct 20 (Reuters) - Libya's new leaders must bring to justice all those suspected of human rights abuses under Muammar Gaddafi's fallen regime following his death, human rights group Amnesty International said on Thursday.

"The legacy of repression and abuse from Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's rule will not end until there is a full accounting for the past and human rights are embedded in Libya's new institutions," said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Amnesty's deputy director for North Africa and the Middle East.

"Colonel Gaddafi's death must not stop his victims in Libya from seeing justice being done. The many Libyan officials suspected of serious human rights violations committed during and before this year's uprising, including the infamous Abu Salim prison massacre in 1996, must answer for their crimes."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK4SC20111020?sp=true

[al bupp]

18. Location where #Gaddafi was found hiding. #Libya

http://c0014004.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_8dd1e9d

M. K. Al-Binateej | ATEEKSTER
Location where #Gaddafi was found hiding. #Libya
1 hour ago via UberSocial

[al bupp]

19. Guardian Blog: Mutassim injured but captured, Saif al-Islam under attack

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live

4.04pm: More news about Gaddafi's sons: Mutassim is reported to be injured but captured. Saif al-Islam is said to be under attack after fleeing Sirte.

Reuters tweets:

FLASH: Reuters witness sees video of captured Gaddafi son Mo'Tassim, lying on bed, covered in blood, but alive

Al Jazeera's Karl Stagno-Navarra tweets:

BREAKING: #Seif al Islam under heavy attack, reached by freedom fighters in #Alhera after he fled #Sirte attack that killed his father

The Guardian has published an obituary of Gaddafi. Here's how it ends:

Western aircraft steadily eroded the Gaddafi military's ability to exploit its vastly superior, and professionally delivered, firepower, targeting concentrations of artillery and armour as they lay siege to rebel-held cities. Chaotic at first, without training or any but the most rudimentary equipment, and fired only by enthusiasm and reckless courage, the disconnected groups of volunteer fighters gradually acquired sufficient military skills and improved, makeshift weaponry first to hold their own, and then to achieve minor gains here and there. After six months of stalemate, they surprised the world, and perhaps themselves, with their lightning descent on the capital and their conquest of the Bab al-Aziziya barracks – that vast, forbidding high-walled fortress, home, seat of power, and above all, crass, iconic, absurdist symbol of Gaddafi and all his works. It was only a matter of time before National Transitional Council forces took control of the rest of the country, and even Sirte finally provided no refuge.

[pinboy3niner]

20. LIBYA LIVE: Gadhafi killed as his hometown falls (with today's timeline)

By LORI HINNANT - Associated Press | AP – 12 mins ago


Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi died today as his hometown fell to the one-time rebels who ousted him, ending the last vestiges of control for the man once hailed as the "king of kings of Africa."

Here's a running account of the day's developments. All times are local in Libya, which is two hours ahead of GMT and six hours ahead of EDT.

___

4:58 p.m.

Gadhafi's bloodied body was loaded on top of a vehicle and taken to Misrata, a city that was besieged for months by his forces. A large crowd surrounding the vehicle chanted, "The blood of the martyrs will not go in vain."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/libya-live-gadhafi-killed-hometown-falls-143735696.html

[Iterate]

21. Libyan PM says reports that another Gaddafi son located

Libyan PM says reports that another Gaddafi son located
Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:13pm GMT

TRIPOLI Oct 20 (Reuters) - Libya's de facto prime minister Mahmoud Jibril said on Thursday he had unconfirmed reports that Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam had been tracked down near the city of Sirte and that his convoy was under attack.

Speaking at a news conference in Tripoli, Jibril confirmed that Muammar Gaddafi, who ruled Libya for 42 years until August, had been killed after he was captured in Sirte.

"We confirm that all the evils, plus Gaddafi, have vanished from this beloved country. I think it's for the Libyans to realise that it's time to start a new Libya, a united Libya, one people, one future," he said.

He also called on neighbouring Algeria to hand over members of Gaddafi's family who fled there in August. Two of Gaddafi's sons, his daughter and his wife are in Algeria.

(Reporting By Barry Malone; Writing by Christian Lowe)
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK4XK20111020

A second report a few minutes later:
One Gaddafi son dead, another being surrounded-NTC
Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:22pm GMT

TRIPOLI Oct 20 (Reuters) - One of Muammar Gaddafi's sons, Mo'tassim, has been killed by fighters from Libya's NTC while another, Saif al-Islam, is trying to flee the fallen city of Sirte but is being surrounded, a senior NTC military official said on Thursday.

"Mo'tassim was killed by the fighters. He was trying to fight back and he was resisting them," National Transitional Council official Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters.

"Saif al-Islam is trying to flee Sirte in a small convoy. Our fighters are encircling them," he added. (Reporting by Samia Nakhoul; Editing by David Stamp)
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK51620111020

It's hard to say if this is clarification or continued confusion.

[pinboy3niner]

22. Libya PM Jibril says NTC chairman will declare liberation of Libya on Thursday, at latest Friday

From breakingnews.com:

Libya PM Jibril says NTC chairman will declare liberation of Libya on Thursday, at latest Friday - @Reuters

3:18PM GMT Oct 20, 2011 Update

[pinboy3niner]

23. Son of Moammar Gadhafi, Mo'Tassim, killed by NTC fighters, senior NTC military official says

From breakingnews.com:

Son of Moammar Gadhafi, Mo'Tassim, killed by NTC fighters, senior NTC military official says - AlArabiya_Eng, Reuters

3:18PM GMT Oct 20, 2011 Update

[pinboy3niner]

24. One Gaddafi son dead, another being surrounded-NTC

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:22pm GMT


TRIPOLI Oct 20 (Reuters) - One of Muammar Gaddafi's sons, Mo'tassim, has been killed by fighters from Libya's NTC while another, Saif al-Islam, is trying to flee the fallen city of Sirte but is being surrounded, a senior NTC military official said on Thursday.
...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK51620111020

[pinboy3niner]

25. Libyans celebrate in Tripoli:

With the death of Muammar Gaddafi, Libyans throughout the country have taken to the streets in celebration of the end of Gaddafi's four-decade-long rule.

As they waved the old flags of Libya, now the flag of the National Transitional Council, Libyans young and old joyously shouted"Allahu Akbar" as guns shot in the air.

Al Jazeera's James Bays reports live from Tripoli, where he got the reactions of some English-speaking Libyans (3:32).

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-20-2011-1819

Two more reaction videos from AJE (The first is 3:54, the second is 3:10) :

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-20-2011-1820

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-20-2011-1827

[tabatha]

26. Nato member states are to meet tomorrow to decide on ending the military campaign

The Guardian:

Nato member states are to meet tomorrow to decide on ending the military campaign, my colleague Julian Borger tells me. He just received this comment from a Nato official:A military assessment of the current situation in Libya and a recommendation for the wrapping up of the Nato operation is on its way to Nato HQ. This will most likely prompt a special meeting of the North Atlantic Council tomorrow to consider the recommendation and decide on the future of the current mission.

[pinboy3niner]

27. Mass graves still being found in Libya - Red Cross

Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:47pm GMT

• ICRC helps to identify human remains found in mass graves, hospitals

• Neutral agency says has visited more than 7,000 detainees so far

• Delivers medical supplies to "ghost-like" Bani Walid


By Stephanie Nebehay


GENEVA, Oct 20 (Reuters) - Dead bodies are being found regularly in mass graves, hospitals and other sites in Libya, including on roadsides, the International Committee of the Red Cross said on Thursday.

The humanitarian agency said many bodies had not been claimed, but that thousands of families were waiting to find out what had happened to missing loved ones. It gave no estimate of the number of unclaimed bodies.

Ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi was killed on Thursday as Libya's new leaders overran Sirte, the last bastion of his long rule, sparking wild celebrations that eight months of war may finally be over.

"In various parts of Libya, human remains are being discovered regularly in mass graves, hospitals and other sites," the ICRC said in a statement on its aid operations.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK4I020111020?sp=true

[tabatha]

28. New video - capture of Gaddafi

http://youtu.be/NVIkck02qao

[Iterate]

29. "This is the place where the rat Gaddafi was hiding."

2.48pm: Here's that photo of the drain where Gaddafi was reportedly found (see 2.38pm).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live#block-54

3.03pm: Sky's correspondent has translated the graffiti on the drain where Gaddafi was reportedly found (see 2.48pm). It says:
"This is the place where the rat Gaddafi was hiding."
And:
"Contemptible Gaddafi".

Gaddafi of course called the rebels rats throughout their uprising against him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/syria-libya-middle-east-unrest-live#block-58

[tabatha]

31. Another photo

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/libya-the-end-of-qaddafi-and-the-fall-of-sirte/100173/

[pinboy3niner]

30. Gaddafi killed as Libya's revolt takes hometown (Reuters update on his final hours)

...

One possible description, pieced together from various sources, suggests that Gaddafi may have tried to break out of his final redoubt at dawn in a convoy of vehicles after weeks of dogged resistance. However, he was stopped by a NATO air strike and captured, possibly three or four hours later, after gun battles with NTC fighters who found him hiding in a drainage culvert.

NATO said its warplanes fired on a convoy near Sirte about 8:30 a.m. (0630 GMT), striking two military vehicles in the group, but could not confirm that Gaddafi had been a passenger.

Accounts from his enemies suggested his capture, and death soon after from wounds, may have taken place around noon.

One of Gaddafi's sons, heir-apparent Saif al-Islam, was at large, they believed. NTC official Mlegta told Reuters that he was surrounded after also trying to flee Sirte. Another son, Mo'tassim, whose arrest was announced earlier in the day, had been killed resisting his captors, Mlegta added.

He said that the elder Gaddafi had been wounded in both legs early in the morning as he tried to flee in the convoy which NATO warplanes attacked. "He was also hit in his head," he said. "There was a lot of firing against his group and he died."

There was no shortage of NTC fighters in Sirte claiming to have seen him die, though many accounts were conflicting. Libyan television carried video of two drainage pipes, about a metre across, where it said fighters had cornered a man who long inspired both fear and admiration around the world.
...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LJ3ZE20111020?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

32. Doctor: Gaddafi died of two bullet wounds, to the head and chest

Gadhafi, Libya's leader for 42 years, killed

By CHRISTOPHER GILLETTE and KIM GAMEL - Associated Press | AP – 17 mins ago

...


Initial reports from fighters said Gadhafi had been barricaded in with his heavily armed loyalists in the last few buildings they held in his Mediterranean coastal hometown of Sirte, furiously battling with revolutionary fighters closing in on them Thursday. At one point, a convoy tried to flee the area and was blasted by NATO airstrikes, but Jibril specified Gadhafi was not killed by the strike. Most accounts agreed Gadhafi was shot to death by fighters.

Fighters in Sirte rolled Gadhafi's body on the pavement, according to footage aired on Al-Jazeera, TV. The goaded Gadhafi was stripped to the waist and his head was bloodied.

The body was then paraded through the streets of the nearby city of Misrata on top of a vehicle surrounded by a large crowd chanting, "The blood of the martyrs will not go in vain," according to footage aired on Al-Arabiya television. The fighters who killed Gadhafi are believed to have come from Misrata, a city that suffered a brutal weeks-long siege by Gadhafi's forces during the eight-month long civil war.

Abdel-Jalil Abdel-Aziz, a doctor who was part of the medical team that accompanied the body in the ambulance to Misrata, said Gadhafi died from two bullet wounds, to the head and chest.

"You can't imagine my happiness today. I can't describe my happiness," he told The Associated Press. "The tyranny is gone. Now the Libyan people can rest."

...


http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafi-libyas-leader-42-years-killed-143212662.html

[tabatha]

33. No more killing; no more bloodshed!

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/libya-the-end-of-qaddafi-and-the-fall-of-sirte/100173/

[pinboy3niner]

34. Amen nt

[pinboy3niner]

35. Secretary Clinton's reaction to report of Gaddafi's death caught on TV

6:31 p.m.

Hillary Rodham Clinton learned about reports of Gadhafi's death today in Kabul, between interviews with television networks.

Television crews kept the cameras rolling between takes. At one point, Clinton's assistant, Huma Abedine, handed her a BlackBerry to show her the report.

"Wow. Huh," Clinton said. "Unconfirmed."

She noted there had been similar reports in the past and handed the phone back, unaware cameras were rolling. Normally the moments between interviews aren't aired, but network producers apparently decided to go with it.

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-live-ripples-gadhafis-death-163756083.html

[pinboy3niner]

37. Video footage of the US Sec. of State, Hillary Clinton, learning the Gaddafi news on her Blackberry

Via The Guardian's Live Blog:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/20/gaddafi-killed-sirte-falls-live#block-8

[al bupp]

36. Al-Arabiya (via CNN): Saif al-Islam is dead

On air now, CNN says they are awaiting confirmation.

[pinboy3niner]

38. AU says lifts suspension of Libya membership

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:18pm GMT

By Aaron Maasho

NAIROBI Oct 20 (Reuters) - The African Union said on Thursday it had lifted its suspension of Libya's membership.

The AU said in a statement it had decided to "authorise the current authorities in Libya to occupy the seat of Libya in the AU and its organs".
...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LK5MQ20111020

[pinboy3niner]

39. The Libya Revolution Threads congratulate the Rats of Libya

Peace ~

[Iterate]

59. Seconded

Congratulations to them -they're now free to struggle with building a nation, just like most others. Free to make mistakes, free to be dumb, free to be brilliant.



Peace, with hope.

[pinboy3niner]

40. "We even saw some fighters who put flowers in the front of their guns...

...and some who put flowers around their necks."

--James Bays, AJE, reporting live from Martyrs' Square celebrations in Tripoli

[pinboy3niner]

41. Obama to speak on Gaddafi death, Libya future (at 2pm EDT in the Rose Garden)

Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:46pm GMT

• Lawmakers welcome word of Gaddafi's death

• White House cautious but Obama soon to speak


By Matt Spetalnick and David Morgan


WASHINGTON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - U.S. politicians welcomed Muammar Gaddafi's death on Thursday and President Barack Obama planned to speak about the demise of Libya's autocratic ruler who was for decades regarded as a nemesis by Washington.

The reaction reflected a long, tortured history with the Libyan strongman, viewed by most Americans as a villain for his government's links to the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am flight over Scotland and a 1986 disco bombing in Berlin that targeted U.S. troops.

Even as world leaders weighed in after Libya's interim leaders announced Gaddafi's death, the White House tread more carefully. But a White House official said Obama would provide further confirmation when he steps before the cameras at 2 p.m. EDT (1800 GMT) in the Rose Garden.

The Obama administration was likely to tout the end of Gaddafi as vindication for a cautious "leading from behind" strategy that had drawn criticism at home for casting the United States in a support role in the NATO air assault in Libya.

Relatives of American victims of the flight blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland by Libyan agents 23 years ago said justice was served with Gaddafi's death as he fled his home town and final bastion.

"I hope he's in hell with Hitler," said Kathy Tedeschi, whose first husband Bill Daniels was among the 270 people killed in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFN1E79J07Q20111020?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

42. President Obama to the Libyan people: 'You have won your revolution' nt

[ellisonz]

48. A selection of quotes from Obama's news conference at the White House:

This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya.

"Just one year ago, the notion of a free Libya seemed impossible, but then the Libyan people rose up and demanded their rights.

"This is a momentous day in the history of Libya, the dark shadow of tyranny has been lifted.

"Across the Arab world, citizens have stood up to claim their rights. Youth are delivering a powerful rebuke to dictatorship. And those leaders who try to deny their dignity will not succeed.

"For the region, today's events prove once more that the rule of an iron fist inevitably comes to an end."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

43. AP tries to piece together details of Gaddafi's death

Out of initial confusion, a clearer picture began to emerge of Gadhafi's last hours, though there were still contradictions.

Most accounts agreed Gadhafi had been holed up with heavily armed supporters in the last few buildings held by regime loyalists in his Mediterranean coastal hometown of Sirte, furiously battling advancing revolutionary fighters.

At one point, a convoy tried to flee and was hit by NATO airstrikes, carried out by French warplanes. France's Defense Minister Gerard Longuet said the 80-vehicle convoy was carrying Gadhafi and was trying to escape the city. The strikes stopped the convoy but did not destroy it, and then revolutionary fighters moved in on the vehicle carrying Gadhafi himself.

Fathi Bashaga, spokesman for the Misrata military council, whose forces were involved in the Sirte siege, said fighters encircled the convoy and exchanged fire with several of the vehicles. In one, they found Gadhafi, wounded in the neck, and took him to an ambulance. "What do you want?" Gadhafi said to the approaching revolutionaries, Bashaga said, citing witnesses.

Gadhafi bled to death from his wounds a half-hour later, he said.

Abdel-Jalil Abdel-Aziz, a doctor who was part of the medical team that accompanied the body in the ambulance and examined it, said Gadhafi died from two bullet wounds, to the head and chest.

http://news.yahoo.com/libyas-moammar-gadhafi-killed-hometown-battle-170250265.html

[tabatha]

Nope, that is not correct.

After viewing the interview with someone who saw Gaddafi captured, it was stated clearly that he was NOT in a car - but was found in a drain.

[pinboy3niner]

44. Vatican announces it considers Libya's NTC 'the legitimate representation of the Libyan people'

The transitional government got more support today from the Vatican. After weeks of contacts with the new leadership, a Vatican statement says "the Holy See considers it the legitimate representation of the Libyan people, conforming to international law."

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-live-piecing-together-day-gadhafi-died-172456296.html

[tabatha]

45. Arabs see Gaddafi's death as message to rulers

By Shaimaa Fayed and Marwa Awad
CAIRO | Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:55pm EDT

(Reuters) - The bloodied corpse of deposed Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will send a clear message to other Arab leaders who are battling to stay in power against the will of their people, some Arabs said on Thursday.

"This is the fate of a leader who destroyed the lives of his people for decades and opened fire on them before his demise," said Mohamed Beltagy, senior member of Egypt's influential Muslim Brotherhood.

"Gaddafi's fate should be a lesson for Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad and Yemen's (Ali Abdullah) Saleh," he said, referring to two Arab heads of state who have sought to quash unrest with their armies.

...

"Hell awaits Gaddafi. I hate to rejoice in anyone's death, but what he did to his people was atrocious," said Nancy El Kassab, an Egyptian television executive producer.

...

Activists in Syria's central city of Homs told Avaaz, a campaigning rights organization, that people celebrated Gaddafi's death in the streets. Some held placards saying: "The rat of Libya has been caught, next is the germ of Syria."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/20/us-libya-gaddafi-arabs-idUSTRE79J77720111020

[pinboy3niner]

46. Obama: Gaddafi death is warning to iron-fist rulers

Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:52pm GMT

By Matt Spetalnick and David Morgan


WASHINGTON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama hailed Muammar Gaddafi's death as a warning to authoritarian leaders across the Middle East that iron-fisted rule "inevitably comes to an end" and as vindication for his cautious U.S. strategy on Libya.

Obama joined U.S. politicians and ordinary Americans in welcoming the demise of Gaddafi, who was for decades regarded as a nemesis of American presidents, and he also sought to claim some of the credit for the Libyan strongman's downfall.

"This marks the end of a long and painful chapter for the people of Libya who now have the opportunity to determine their own destiny in a new and democratic Libya," Obama told reporters in the White House Rose Garden.

Obama made clear that he considered Gaddafi's death a vindication of his "leading from behind" strategy that had drawn criticism at home for casting the United States in a support role in the NATO air assault in Libya.

"Without putting a single U.S. service member on the ground, we have achieved our objectives," Obama said in a televised statement to Americans already weary of long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFN1E79J07Q20111020?sp=true

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. How is it a warning?

Are we ready to send NATO Air Forces and U.S. drones into Yemen and Syria?

It's the solution that would be consistent with the Libya incursion.

:hi:

[ellisonz]

64. March of history.

I think that if Syria get's much worse there will be some outside involvement from perhaps Turkey and the Arab states. I do not believe they want to see a failed state in Syria and could do something like providing arms to the Syrian National Council. I think you could also see covert American/Western assistance in the form of satellite imagery etc. Democracy will prevail. :hi:

[ellisonz]

47. Reuters: Gaddafi's Death Sends Message to Other Arab Leaders

17 min 43 sec ago - Libya

The bloodied corpse of deposed Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will send a clear message to other Arab leaders who are battling to stay in power against the will of their people, some Arabs said on Thursday.

"This is the fate of a leader who destroyed the lives of his people for decades and opened fire on them before his demise," said Mohamed Beltagy, senior member of Egypt's influential Muslim Brotherhood.

"Gaddafi's fate should be a lesson for Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad and Yemen's Saleh," he said, referring to two Arab heads of state who have sought to quash unrest with their armies.

Nancy El Kassab, an Egyptian television executive producer, commented: "Hell awaits Gaddafi. I hate to rejoice in anyone's death, but what he did to his people was atrocious."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

49. White House repeats Syria's Assad has lost legitimacy

Asked whether (the President's) statement was meant to send a message to Assad, who has led a military crackdown on seven months of pro-democracy protests, White House spokesman Jay Carney stuck to familiar language about Syria. "The president believes that Syria's leader has lost his legitimacy to rule," Carney said.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFWNA143520111020

[ellisonz]

51. Reuters: Fighter Claims to Have Gaddafi Golden Pistol

2 min 48 sec ago - Libya

A fighter for the National Transitional Council shows the media a golden pistol that was found near Muammar Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte. Many fighters claim that the former leader used the weapon during his last stand. - Reuters

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[pinboy3niner]

54. Yankees fan captures Gaddafi's pistol

Posted in GD by thewiseguy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2154400

[ellisonz]

52. NYT: Qaddafi Is Killed as Libyan Forces Take Surt

By KAREEM FAHIM and RICK GLADSTONE
Published: October 20, 2011

TRIPOLI, Libya — Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the former Libyan strongman who fled into hiding after an armed uprising toppled his regime two months ago, met a violent death Thursday in the hands of rebel fighters who stormed his final stronghold in his Mediterranean hometown Surt.

Al Jazeera television showed gruesome footage of what appeared to be Colonel Qaddafi, alive but bloody, being dragged around by armed men in Surt. The television also broadcast a separate clip of his half-naked body, with lifeless open eyes and an apparent gunshot wound to the side of the head, as jubilant fighters fired automatic weapons in the air.

Conflicting accounts quickly emerged about whether Colonel Qaddafi was executed by his captors, died from gunshot wounds sustained in a firefight, was mortally wounded in a NATO bomb blast or bled to death in an ambulance. But the images broadcast by Al Jazeera punctuated an emphatic and violent ending to his four decades as a ruthless and bombastic autocrat who had basked in his reputation as the self-styled king of kings of Africa.

--------

Fighters from Misurata, the port city that suffered enormously at the hands of Colonel Qaddafi’s forces during the uprising, were in possession of Colonel Qaddafi’s body and took it to their hometown, where it was kept in a private house but moved a few hours later to an undisclosed location because hundreds of people had converged to see it, Misurata residents said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/world/africa/qaddafi-is-killed-as-libyan-forces-take-surt.html?_r=1&hp

[pinboy3niner]

53. Video, NTC source indicate Gaddafi shot in custody--Reuters

A spokesman for the National Transitional Council (NTC) in Benghazi, Jalal al-Galal, said a doctor who examined the fallen strongman in Misrata found he had been shot in the head and abdomen. Jerky video obtained from Sirte showed a man looking like Gaddafi, with distinctive long, curly hair, bloodied and staggering under blows from armed men, apparently NTC fighters.

The brief footage shows him being hauled by his hair from the hood of a truck. To the shouts of someone saying "Keep him alive", he disappears from view and gunshots are heard.

"They captured him alive and while he was being taken away, they beat him and then they killed him," one senior source in the NTC told Reuters. "He might have been resisting."

Driven in an ambulance from Sirte, his partially stripped body was delivered to a mosque in Misrata. Senior NTC official Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters that DNA tests were being conducted to confirm it was Gaddafi. He would be buried in Misrata, most likely by Friday according to Muslim custom.

Officials said his son Mo'tassim, also seen bleeding but alive in a video, had also died. Another son, heir-apparent Saif al-Islam, was variously reported to be surrounded, captured or killed as conflicting accounts of the day's events crackled around networks of NTC fighters rejoicing in Sirte.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LJ3ZE20111020?sp=true

[ellisonz]

55. If this is true...

They certainly shouldn't hail these guys as heroes of Libya. The NTC was quite clear that they wanted him alive if at all possible. However, I'm not sure if it could have been easily prevented...the motive for revenge is strong among the thuwar.

:(

[tabatha]

56. No, apparently there was a gunfight between Gaddafi's forces

and the TNC forces after Gaddafi was captured, and that is when Gaddafi was killed.

[ellisonz]

58. Either way - it would benefit the NTC...

...to conduct an investigation so that the facts are clear. :thumbsup:

[Akarion]

62. Not so sure

The brief footage shows him being hauled by his hair from the hood of a truck. To the shouts of someone saying "Keep him alive", he disappears from view and gunshots are heard.

"They captured him alive and while he was being taken away, they beat him and then they killed him," one senior source in the NTC told Reuters. "He might have been resisting."

If they are basing the statement that they shot him because of the gun sounds when the camera is looking the other way im pretty sure they got it wrong.

[ellisonz]

63. Welcome to DU!

NTC is now saying there was a further gun battle and he was caught in the crossfire.

:toast:

[pinboy3niner]

67. Reuters was reaching

There's no evidence that the gunshots heard were connected to Gaddafi's death or even to his being shot at that moment.

What's surprising is that we haven't yet seen witnesses telling their stories on-camera. People who were there are going to be talking about it--over and over again.

[ellisonz]

69. I'd imagine the officers and soldiers are being interviewed by the NTC...

...they want the facts known.

[tabatha]

73. Considering the variety of stories I have read about Saif

--- he was badly injured a couple days ago; he was injured today; he was killed today; he is still at large --- I would hesitate to believe anything.

[ellisonz]

57. NYT: Another Victory for a New Approach to War

News Analysis
Another Victory for a New Approach to War
By MARK LANDLER and DAVID LEONHARDT
Published: October 20, 2011

WASHINGTON — The final end to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s rule is the latest victory for a new American approach to war: few if any troops on the ground, the heavy use of air power, including drones, and, at least in the case of Libya, a reliance on allies.

Only a few months ago, the approach had few fans: not the hawks in Congress who called for boots on the ground, not the doves who demanded a pullout and not the many experts who warned of a quagmire. Most pointedly, critics mocked President Obama for “leading from behind,” a much-repeated phrase that came from an unnamed administration official in an article in The New Yorker.

But the last six months have brought a string of successes. In May, American commandos killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. In August, Tripoli fell, and Colonel Qaddafi fled. In September, an American drone strike killed Anwar al-Awlaki, a top Qaeda operative and propagandist, in Yemen. And on Thursday, people were digesting images of the bloodied body of Colonel Qaddafi, an oppressive strongman who spent decades flaunting his pariah status.

-----

For all the recent success, though, two large caveats remain.

----

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/world/africa/qaddafis-death-is-latest-victory-for-new-us-approach-to-war.html?hp

[ellisonz]

60. PHOTOS: Celebration in Tripoli's Martyr Square

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

[ellisonz]

65. Amnesty International: Libyans must see justice after death of Colonel al-Gaddafi

Libyans must see justice after death of Colonel al-Gaddafi

20 October 2011

The reported death of Colonel Mu'ammar al-Gaddafi would bring to a close a chapter of Libya's history marked by repression and abuse but does not end the story, Amnesty International said today.

“The legacy of repression and abuse from Colonel Mu'ammar al-Gaddafi's rule will not end until there is a full accounting for the past and human rights are embedded in Libya's new institutions,” said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Deputy Director for North Africa and the Middle East at Amnesty International.

"Colonel al-Gaddafi’s death must not stop his victims in Libya from seeing justice being done. The many Libyan officials suspected of serious human rights violations committed during and before this year's uprising, including the infamous Abu Salim prison massacre in 1996, must answer for their crimes."

"The new authorities must make a complete break from the culture of abuse that Colonel al-Gaddafi’s regime perpetuated and initiate the human rights reforms that are urgently needed in the country."

------

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/libyans-must-see-justice-after-death-colonel-al-gaddafi-%C2%A0-2011-10-20

Also calls for full investigation in Gaddafi's death. :bounce:

[ellisonz]

66. CNN: Convoy was hit by multiple air strikes.

CNN now saying that a US drone fired a hellfire missile in conjunction with French air strike.at the convoy.

[ellisonz]

68. Libyan Ambassador to U.S. - Gaddafi may be buried in unknown grave.

Jalil will declare liberation of Libya from Misrata.

[ellisonz]

70. AU says lifts suspension of Libya membership

AU says lifts suspension of Libya membership
ReutersBy Aaron Maasho | Reuters – 4 hours ago

NAIROBI (Reuters) - The African Union said on Thursday it had lifted its suspension of Libya's membership.

The AU said in a statement it had decided to "authorise the current authorities in Libya to occupy the seat of Libya in the AU and its organs."

The AU meeting was held before news that Muammar Gaddafi had been killed and his last bastion, the city of Sirte, had fallen to National Transitional Council fighters.

----------

The AU was slow to recognise Libya's National Transitional Council as the north African country's de facto government. Gaddafi had been one of the bloc's main financiers and had presented several African leaders with large sums of money.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/au-says-lifts-suspension-libya-membership-172027503.html

[ellisonz]

71. Libya - French planes fired warning shot

Libya - French planes fired warning shot
2011-10-20 23:21

Paris - French warplanes fired a warning shot to stop a convoy of vehicles carrying Muammar Gaddafi before he was killed in clashes in Libya, French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet said on Thursday.

The convoy of several dozen vehicles "was stopped from progressing as it sought to flee Sirte but was not destroyed by the French intervention," Longuet told journalists.

Libyan fighters then intervened, destroying the vehicles, from which "they took out Colonel Gaddafi," he added.

------

He said a French Mirage-2000 "was informed by the integrated general staff of the need for an intervention to prevent this column from advancing".

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Libya-French-planes-fired-warning-shot-20111020

[ellisonz]

72. Venezuela's Chavez calls Qadhafi death 'outrage'

Venezuela's Chavez calls Qadhafi death 'outrage'

Friday, 21 October 2011 02:28

ChavezLA GRITA: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Thursday expressed anger over the death of Moamer Qadhafi, calling it an "outrage" and saying the ousted Libyan strongman was a "martyr."

"Sadly the death of Qadhafi has been confirmed," said Chavez, who had just returned to Venezuela from cancer treatment in Cuba.

"They assassinated him. It is another outrage," the Venezuelan leader told reporters in the town of La Grita.

"We shall remember Qadhafi our whole lives as a great fighter, a revolutionary and a martyr," he said.

http://www.brecorder.com/world/south-america/32565-venezuelas-chavez-calls-qadhafi-death-outrage-.html

[tabatha]

74. Yeah, the "rats" don't count.

Only those who save over $250 billion of Libya's assets in banks instead of spending it on the citizens of Libya.

And whose kids spent $2million a month each. Yep. Great guy.

[ellisonz]

75. And torture and rape their servants and own people...

Hugo is not looking well. Tyrants around the world are feeling cold shivers going up their spine right now.

Myanmar, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Sudan, Syria, Iran, Zimbabwe etc...

Edit for :beer:

[ellisonz]

76. AFP: Commander 'Bufa' lost in Sirte battle

Commander 'Bufa' lost in Sirte battle
AFPBy Herve Bar | AFP – 3 minutes 20 seconds ago

His schoolboy pranks used to bring tears of laughters to his men's eyes, but as they carried the coffin of commander Mustafa bin Dardef, Libya's new regime fighters wept inconsolably.

Affectionately known as "Bufa," he was among National Transitional Council (NTC) fighters killed on Tuesday in the battle for Sirte, just two days before the fall of the hometown of strongman Moamer Kadhafi and his capture.

Bin Dardef, a popular field commander with the Zintan Brigade, was hit by a mortar round, maybe the result of friendly fire as shells and gunfire rained down on the last redoubt of Kadhafi loyalists.

-------

Just hours earlier he had spoken on the phone with his four daughters to tell them he would be returning home soon to Benghazi. But he only returned in a coffin.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/commander-bufa-lost-sirte-battle-215459131.html

[ellisonz]

77. NPR: Gadhafi Death Highlights GOP Foreign Policy Gap

Gadhafi Death Highlights GOP Foreign Policy Gap
by Liz Halloran

President Obama called the death of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi the end of a "long and painful chapter" for the people of that country.

Gadhafi's demise, during an insurgency aided early on by U.S. military air attacks ordered by Obama, may also serve as a wake-up call back home for Republican presidential candidates who have largely ignored foreign affairs in their quest to occupy White House.

-----

"Romney has come out with a 160-page economic report — I would hope that he could come up with 75 or even 50 pages on foreign affairs," Edwards said, referring to GOP candidate and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. (Romney did release a 44-page foreign policy white paper, "An American Century," earlier this month. He also announced a 22-member foreign policy team, many of whom are veterans of the George W. Bush administration.)

Edwards also suggested that Gadhafi's death should "put to rest" criticisms that Obama "led from behind" when he decided whether and how to intervene in Libya during Arab Spring.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/20/141565095/gadhafi-death-highlights-gop-foreign-policy-gap?ft=1&f=1014

[ellisonz]

78. Al Sharpton interviewing Rep. Keith Ellison on MSNBC

Ellison says that he supported the Libyan revolution based on his conversations with Libyan-Americans in his district. That they had no way to vote Gaddafi out; force was their only option. He also says the GOP needs to give credit to President Obama for leading on foreign policy and achieving success. President Obama has been "wise in his leadership." Credits his speeches in Cairo and Turkey with giving "flight all across the region." He gives Obama credit for reigning in Saleh and discouraging Assad, and for holding up $53 million in arms aid to Bahrain.

Graphic:

Total U.S. Cost of Libyan Intervention - 1.1 Billion - 0 American Lives - contrasted with Afghan and Iraq graphics.

:dem:

[ellisonz]

128. Video now avaialable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/#44982556

[ellisonz]

79. NPR: Goodbye, Gadhafi: A Dream Made Into Reality

Goodbye, Gadhafi: A Dream Made Into Reality
by Sarah Burshan
Audio for this story from All Things Considered will be available at approx. 7:00 p.m. ET

Thursday, Oct. 20 is a day I will never forget.

My brother woke me up at 5 a.m. He kept repeating, "They got him, they caught Gadhafi!" I was so dazed, I didn't believe it. A world without Moammar Gadhafi? It seemed too good to be true.

I was born in Kansas, but I have always been a Libyan. Before I was born, my parents were active in the opposition. When my father finished high school, he knew that the only options for those opposed to Gadhafi were jail or death. He chose instead to leave the country.

After he left, he and my mom were married. It was a big wedding, and all their friends and relatives attended. The only person missing was the groom — the wedding was in Libya.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/20/141565817/goodbye-gadhafi-a-dream-made-into-reality?ft=1&f=2

Sarah Burshan is a student at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

[pinboy3niner]

80. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 246: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:35 AM FRIDAY, OCTOBER 21

This is likely the LAST DAY of the Libyan Revolution, as the NTC is expected to declare the liberation of Libya within hours. Finally!

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours

[ellisonz]

81. UK Telegraph: Col Gaddafi killed: hunt for IRA suppliers must go on

Col Gaddafi killed: hunt for IRA suppliers must go on
Relatives of the victims of IRA atrocities last night called for Muammar Gaddafi’s henchmen to still be rounded up and brought to account for supplying the terrorists with explosives and guns.
By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor

10:23PM BST 20 Oct 2011

Libya was instrumental is equipping the IRA throughout the 1970s and 80s including, crucially, several tons of Semtex – the plastic explosive that transformed the effectiveness of the dissident republicans.

Even last month there were claims the Gaddafi regime had supplied funding to current dissident groups such as the Real IRA or others, shortly before he was forced from power.

In the immediate aftermath of Gaddafi’s death yesterday, those most affected by his actions said the hunt for those responsible must continue.

Victor Barker, whose son 12-year-old son James died in the Omagh bombing in 1998, said: “They should be pursued just like Gaddafi was.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8839497/Col-Gaddafi-killed-hunt-for-IRA-suppliers-must-go-on.html

[ellisonz]

82. CNN: DNA Evidence Confirms Gaddafi is dead.

[ellisonz]

83. McClatchy: Gadhafi was captured alive; how he died is in dispute

Gadhafi was captured alive; how he died is in dispute
By Osama al Fitory and Hannah Allam | McClatchy Newspapers

SIRTE, Libya — Former Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi asked his captors twice, "What do you want from me?" as they swarmed around him Thursday, according to video footage shot at the scene by a Libyan journalist. By early afternoon, he was dead, but how he died remained in dispute.

In one version, recounted by a reporter for the Arabic-language satellite channel al Arabiya, the former dictator was shot moments after his capture by an 18-year-old revolutionary fighter who was hailed as a hero by his comrades in arms.

In the other, told by officials of Libya's interim government in Tripoli, Gadhafi died en route to a hospital for treatment of wounds he suffered when the convoy he was riding in was hit by a NATO airstrike that preceded his detention.

------

A doctor who was part of the medical team that accompanied Gadhafi's body in an ambulance and examined it told the Associated Press that Gadhafi had died from two bullet wounds, to the head and chest.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/10/20/127887/gadhafi-was-captured-alive-how.html

[ellisonz]

84. Q&A with Fareed Zakaria on Gadhafi's death

Q&A with Fareed Zakaria on Gadhafi's death

Moammar Gadhafi was killed Thursday in his hometown of Sirte, Libya. CNN's Fareed Zakaria, who interviewed Gadhafi in 2009, discusses the man, the cult and the future of Libya in the Q&A below.

Q: When you heard Gadhafi was dead, what went through your mind?

Fareed Zakaria: I was not surprised. I never thought Moammar Gadhafi would give up because he was not a bureaucrat like Hosni Mubarak. He had not been standing in line in the regime and it became his turn to be the dictator. He was a revolutionary. He was a guy who had launched a colonel’s coup. He had always been a fighter – romantic, mad, crazy – so I always suspected he would go down fighting.

I also thought there was much less to his position than people made out. He did not actually have lots of tribes loyal to him. He had paid off a bunch of them. But once the money starts drying up, that kind of loyalty disappears pretty quickly.

I also thought it was a sad statement about the way in which he and his sons plundered the country – wrecked it economically – and were unable to provide some kind of transition to a decent next stage.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/20/qa-with-fareed-zakaria-on-gadhafis-death/

Also addresses the situation in Syria.

[ellisonz]

85. Gadhafi’s death stirs little remorse across Africa

By Geoffrey York
JOHANNESBURG— Globe and Mail Update
Published Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011 6:46PM EDT
Last updated Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011 7:43PM EDT

For years, many African leaders had enjoyed a slice of Colonel Moammar Gadhafi’s oil wealth. They chose him to lead the African Union, they tolerated his claim to be the king of Africa’s tribal chiefs, and they patiently listened to his noisy campaign for a “United States of Africa.”
More related to this story

But there was only silence from most African governments after his death. The eccentric Libyan tyrant had long since worn out his African welcome, and he will not be mourned.

The African Union, which Col. Gadhafi had notoriously headed from 2009 to 2010 as he promoted his dream of continental unity, was conspicuously silent. The AU had remained loyal to the embattled dictator for most of this year, but it finally abandoned him last month, recognizing the Libyan rebels as the legitimate government.

In South Africa, where Col. Gadhafi had cultivated powerful political friends for decades, there was no grief. The South African government issued a brief statement, saying merely that it “noted” the death of the “former Libyan leader.” It said it hopes that the latest events will lead to a “cessation of hostilities and a restoration of peace.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/gadhafis-death-stirs-little-remorse-across-africa/article2208452/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2208452

No honor among thieves...

[pinboy3niner]

86. Good job updating, ellisonz!

Usually I get the honors, along with tabatha and Iterate and, of course, Josh.

But after staying up all night hunting for news and updating, I was wiped out. Thanks for being there to carry on. I just can't do it any more, though I'm still up only because of the good news from Libya and the good news from DU mods, with the pizza served to the Number One Gaddafi propagandist here.

Sorry I'm not up to helping out, but then you're doing great on your own. Keep the faith...

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner

[ellisonz]

87. Robert Fisk: You can't blame Gaddafi for thinking he was one of the good guys

Robert Fisk: You can't blame Gaddafi for thinking he was one of the good guys
The West may be celebrating his death, but that's just an accident of timing
Friday, 21 October 2011



REUTERS

The Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, pictured two years ago in Rome

We loved him. We hated him. Then we loved him again. Blair slobbered over him. Then we hated him again. Then La Clinton slobbered over her BlackBerry and we really hated him even more again. Let us all pray that he wasn't murdered. "Died of wounds suffered during capture." What did that mean?

He was a crazy combination of Don Corleone and Donald Duck – Tom Friedman's only moment of truth about Saddam Hussein – and we who had to watch his ridiculous march-pasts and his speeches bit our lips and wrote about Libyan tanks and marines and missiles that were supposed to take this nonsense seriously. His frogmen flipped and flapped through Green Square in the heat and we had to take this rubbish at face value and pretend that it was a real threat to Israel; just as Blair tried to persuade us (not unsuccessfully) that Gaddafi's pathetic attempts to create "weapons of mass destruction" had been skewered. This, in a country that couldn't repair a public lavatory.

So he is gone, the colonel who was once beloved of the Foreign Office (after the coup against King Idris), then guarded as a "safe pair of hands", then loathed because he sent weapons to the IRA, then loved, etc, etc. Can you blame the man for thinking he was a good guy?

And did he perish so? Shot down while trying to resist? We lived with Ceausescu's death (and that of his wife), so why not Gaddafi's? And Gaddafi's wife is safe. Why shouldn't the dictator die thus? Interesting question. Did our friends in the National Transitional Council decree his demise? Or was this "natural", a death at the hands of his enemies, an honourable end to a bad man? I wonder. How the West must have been relieved that there would be no trials, no endless speeches from the Great Leader, no defence of his regime. No trials mean no accounts of rendition and torture and no cutting of sexual parts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-you-cant-blame-gaddafi-for-thinking-he-was-one-of-the-good-guys-2373796.html

Robert Fisk (born 12 July 1946) is an English writer and journalist from Maidstone, Kent. As Middle East correspondent of The Independent, he has primarily been based in Beirut for more than 30 years.<1> He has published a number of books and has reported on the United States's war in Afghanistan and the same country's 2003 invasion of Iraq. Fisk holds more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent.<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_fisk

[joshcryer]

90. Always respected Fisk through this, he was right about Iraq and he was fairly balanced on Libya.

He did say a few things I disagreed with but overall he's my favorite.

[ellisonz]

88. Gadhafi's Death Predicted By 80s Sitcom (Video)

Gadhafi's Death Predicted By 80s Sitcom (Video)
1987's "Second Chance" had the Libyan leader die in 2011 on its pilot episode.
October 20 4:46 PM PDT 10/20/2011 by Lauren Schutte



Moammar Gaddafi
ANDREAS SOLARO/AFP/Getty Images

The public should have paid closer attention to one-season show Second Chance when it aired during the 1987-1988 season.

Apparently the show could see into the future.

The sitcom, which was Matthew Perry's first foray into television, featured a now slightly-eerie caricature of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi, who was captured and killed in Sirte, Libya, it was announced Thursday.

Second Chance, which was cancelled after just one season's run, opened in Saint Peter's Office on the then-future day of July 29, 2011. Characters' lives were judged to determine whether or not they were going to heaven or hell.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/muammar-al-gadhafi-death-matthew-perry-251524

I'm going to have to go digging around the internet for it :popcorn:

[joshcryer]

91. They predicted 2011 too, how insane, video link to exact spot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62MU1q-U1k&feature=player_detailpage#t=142s

[ellisonz]

94. "Ahh Colonel Gaddafi...dead at last."

O8)

[ellisonz]

89. Gadhafi's death buoys effort to revive Libya's oil industry

Gadhafi's death buoys effort to revive Libya's oil industry
Thursday, October 20, 2011 | 7:10 p.m. CDT
BY CHRIS KAHN, and JONATHAN FAHEY/The Associated Press

NEW YORK — Moammar Gadhafi's death means there is less of a chance violence will disrupt efforts to revive oil production in Libya.

As Libyan crude oil returns, it could lower the price of oil on the international markets and gasoline at American pumps. But it will take months for Libya to export as much as it did before the country descended into civil war earlier this year.

The type of crude it produces, known as light sweet crude, is rare. It is especially valuable because it is easier for refineries to convert into diesel fuel and gasoline. Many refineries can't switch easily to processing other varieties of crude.

Before the civil war, Libya produced only 2 percent of the world's oil. But even small interruptions in oil production can have a big effect on the price because the balance between supply and demand is delicate.

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2011/10/20/gadhafis-death-helps-clear-way-oil-exports/

[ellisonz]

92. After turbulent ties, U.S. relief at Gaddafi demise

After turbulent ties, U.S. relief at Gaddafi demise
ReutersBy Tabassum Zakaria | Reuters – 7 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - If ever there was a roller-coaster of a relationship it was the one the United States had with Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, which went from bombing to befriending to supporting bombing again.

But after decades of bloodshed and turmoil, the U.S. reaction to Gaddafi's death during a battle for his hometown of Sirte could be summed up in one word: relief.

-------

If Gaddafi had survived the war with the Libyan opposition forces who are now internationally recognized as the new government, it could have started yet another downward cycle with the United States.

"Gaddafi was a major threat to the United States up until a few years ago, and if he had survived this regime change, he very well could have continued to be a threat since he would have blamed us for his demise," said Darrell West, director of governance studies at The Brookings Institution.

http://news.yahoo.com/turbulent-ties-u-relief-gaddafi-demise-010608219.html

[ellisonz]

93. Moammar Gadhafi, who lived and died in violence

Moammar Gadhafi, who lived and died in violence
By Ronald Bruce St John, Special to CNN
updated 9:05 PM EST, Thu October 20, 2011



Moammar Gadhafi salutes his troops at a 1999 parade to mark the 30th anniversary of the revolution that brought him to power.

(CNN) -- The man who dominated Libya for more than four decades died not far from his birthplace.

Moammar Gadhafi was born in the central Libyan desert south of Sirte in spring 1943. The only surviving son of traditional Bedouin parents, his early schooling centered on religious subjects taught by a local tribal teacher. Tribal social values, together with the religious principles learned at this time, strongly influenced him for the rest of his life.

-------

Gadhafi was a revolutionary, and initially, his regime pursued a complex, aggressive and often violent foreign policy. Beginning in the early 1980s, a series of setbacks caused him to rethink failed initiatives, and after 1999, Libya sought to return to the international community.

-------

By any measure, Gadhafi's legacy is a negative one. Politically, he systematically destroyed civil society and banned political parties, leaving the Libyan people with no experience in democratic government. Socially, his authoritarian regime violated the most basic human rights, including freedom of speech, assembly and the press. Economically, he failed to diversify the economy, leaving the country almost totally dependent on income from oil and gas revenues.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/opinion/stjohn-gadhafi-life-and-times/index.html?section=cnn_latest



Editor's note: Ronald Bruce St John served on the International Advisory Board of the Journal of Libyan Studies and the Atlantic Council Working Group on Libya. He is the author of five books on Libya, including "Libya: Continuity and Change" (2011).

[ellisonz]

95. LAT: Video images apparently show captured Kadafi alive, then dead

Video images apparently show captured Kadafi alive, then dead
Human rights activists say the footage raises questions about the ability of Libya's provisional leaders to ensure that those suspected of human rights abuses and war crimes are treated humanely.

By Alexandra Zavis, Los Angeles Times

October 21, 2011

The images were gruesome.

In one grainy video clip, a figure in a blood-soaked shirt who looks like Moammar Kadafi is manhandled behind a truck by frenzied fighters shouting, "God is great!" The man stumbles and appears to struggle against his captors.

In another clip, a shirtless body lies on the ground. Fighters roll it over to show what appears to be Kadafi's bloodied face to cheering fighters.

-----

"What you've got here is essentially a man who's not fighting back … therefore the killing would be seen as injustice," Husain said. The footage also shows "real disrespect for the dead," a grave insult under Islamic tradition.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-death-video-20111021,0,573806.story?track=rss

I think most Libyans would reply that Gaddafi was not a Muslim or a person of any faith.

[tabatha]

99. There was a doctor who was in the ambulance with Gaddafi on the trip to Sirte.

"We want him alive. We want him alive," one man shouted before Gadhafi was dragged off the hood, some fighters pulling his hair, toward an ambulance.

Bashagha said Gadhafi died in the ambulance from wounds suffered during the clashes. Abdel-Jalil Abdel-Aziz, a doctor who accompanied the body in the ambulance during the 120-mile drive to Misrata, said Gadhafi died from two bullet wounds — to the head and chest.

His body seems to have been on the ground in Misrata.

http://news.yahoo.com/pulled-drain-pipe-gadhafi-shown-no-mercy-000156671.html

[ellisonz]

108. It would make sense that some of the images are from Misrata...

It's like maybe 3 hours to drive from Sirte to Misrata. He would have lost a lot of blood and it now makes sense why the first picture released had him so pale.

[Iterate]

96. Rumours of Muammar Qaddafi Spread by NTC for Hillary Clinton

Rumours of Muammar Qaddafi Spread by NTC for Hillary Clinton
Muammar Qaddafi's ''capture'' denied by Green Charter Movement in Jamahiriya

Now that I have everyone's attention, it's not from the Onion. It's from the green website. Really.

[ellisonz]

97. Even worse...

Rumours are circulating with once again European and American leaders misinforming the public, and the usual media culprits Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia broadcasting the occupation NTC (National Terrorist Council) claim of the capture or death of Muammar Qaddafi.

Green Committees have confirmed that the leader is alive, and that the enemy is seeking to take advantage of his being currently out of communications. The aim is to please Hillary Clinton who barked at her Arab slaves that she wants Muammar Qaddafi "dead or alive."

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=629064

:rofl:

[pinboy3niner]

98. Bark, Hillary, bark!1!!

They shouldn't destroy those green flags. They should save them and put one on every shithouse in the country.

:evilgrin:

[tabatha]

100. This is happiness

http://youtu.be/uBGHSZXlHjM

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabatha]

104. deleted

[pinboy3niner]

106. I believe it's 'she'...

...and she is blessed with extraordinary longevity here, considering...

[ellisonz]

110. deleted

[joshcryer]

102. An open door in Libya

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/20/an-open-door-in-libya/">An open door in Libya
The death of Moammar Gadhafi marks a major moment for Libya - and for NATO. It opens a new phase in the country's struggle for independence, one that carries with it some real risks that Libya's new leadership will need to work hard to overcome in coming weeks.

The Libyan people have every reason to rejoice at Gadhafi's death. In 42 years of rule, his Orwellian regime deprived them of basic human dignities and forced them to live in perpetual fear and uncertainty about their futures. His death is a clear opening to a much brighter future for the 6 million people who live in Libya.

It should also help keep Libya from falling victim to a protracted insurgency led by those loyal to the old regime. By depriving his supporters of their central rallying point, Gadhafi's death reduces the chances they'll be able to organize effectively to take up arms against the new government.

But there's also a risk that with Gadhafi gone, the divisions within the rebel movement could grow. For months, the rebels have fought alongside one another in a common struggle to oust their oppressor. But, as the focus shifts from the battlefield to the political arena, rebel leaders have to redouble their efforts to maintain national unity and move the reconstruction process forward together. A critical goal is reconciling different views about Libya's future - whether secular or Islamist - and ensuring that Libya's different tribes and regions have a seat at the table.

[tabatha]

103. This was the guy who captured Qaddafi

then this guy spotted Qaddafi and jumped on him and captured him while there was a shooting between rebels and Qaddafi body Guards. Qaddafi was holding the gun and the satellite phone showed in the video.

AZ83100 2 hours ago 3
This was the guy who captured Qaddafi. he says" I was with my group in our way to support another unit. then we captured one of Qaddafi soldiers. That soldier told them that Qaddafi and his son,Moatsam,are still in sirt. Then this guy saw another 15 Qaddafi soldiers, so they started to run after them to capture them on the strret. On that road there there was a sewer line goes under the road. Other Qaddafi soldiers start to show out of that sewer line and shoot toward the rebels unit.

AZ83100 2 hours ago 3

http://youtu.be/6CB8OHHKZTI

[pinboy3niner]

105. Self-delete...

But it was fun while it lasted. :)

[joshcryer]

107. Naughty, naughty.

Remove the link and it becomes post-able, weird, eh?

[pinboy3niner]

111. But without the link it lacks that...

...je ne sais quoi. :)

[ellisonz]

112. Let's stick to making fun of Gaddafi.

:spank:

[pinboy3niner]

115. Ouch! Spanked again!

Chalk it up to temporary insanity.

Emphasis on temporary.

Though the mods did thank me for the compliment. :)

[tabatha]

109. Homs | Massive night protests, people celebrate Gaddafi's death & congratulate Libyans

http://youtu.be/TsTIBHbbQbU

:cry: :cry:

Hope Syria is next.

[ellisonz]

113. The Seven Weirdest Things About Moammar Gadhafi

The Seven Weirdest Things About Moammar Gadhafi
ABC NewsBy RUSSELL GOLDMAN | ABC News – 10 hrs ago

Col. Moammar Gadhafi, the dictator who ruled Libya for 42 years, was killed by rebels in his hometown of Sirte on Thursday. A dictator who oppressed his own people and sponsored terrorism abroad, Gadhafi's legacy will be stained by violence. But beyond his brutality, Gadhafi will be remembered for something else entirely… being a first-class weirdo.

In no particular order, ABCNews.com brings you the seven weirdest things about Moammar Gadhafi.

1. The "Bulletproof" Tent: When Gadhafi was at home in Tripoli, he lived in a well fortified compound with a complex system of escape tunnels. But when he travelled abroad, this "Bedouin" brought a bit of the desert with him, camping out in the world's capitals. The tent was so heavy it needed to be flown on a separate plane, wherever the dictator travelled. To complete the Arabian Nights theme, Gadhafi often would tether a camel or two outside.

2. All-Female Virgin Bodyguard Retinue: They apparently weren't around when Gadhafi needed them most on Thursday, but the eccentric dictator was historically protected by 40 well trained bodyguards – all of them women. The bodyguards, called "Amazons," were all reportedly virgins who took a vow of chastity upon joining the dictator's retinue. The women, trained at an all-female military academy, were handpicked by Gadhafi. They wore elaborate uniforms, as well as makeup and high-heeled combat boots.

http://news.yahoo.com/seven-weirdest-things-moammar-gadhafi-170209296.html

[ellisonz]

114. China urges inclusive political process in Libya

China urges inclusive political process in Libya
AP – 1 hr 30 mins ago

BEIJING (AP) — China said Friday that Moammar Gadhafi's death marks the turning of a page in Libya's history and called for the rapid launch of an inclusive political process and economic reconstruction.

A statement from Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu also urged national unity and the restoration of social stability in Libya following the dictator's death on Thursday. But it did not directly comment on Gadhafi's death, in keeping with China's avowedly neutral stance in the monthslong conflict.

"We have noted the relevant reports. At present, a new page has been turned in the history of Libya," Jiang said.

"We hope Libya will rapidly embark on an inclusive political process, maintain ethnic solidarity and national unity, swiftly establish social stability, begin economic reconstruction, and allow the people to live in peace and happiness," she said.

http://news.yahoo.com/china-urges-inclusive-political-process-libya-020902849.html

:puffpiece:

[ellisonz]

116. Justice served by Gaddafi death, Lockerbie families say

Justice served by Gaddafi death, Lockerbie families say

Michelle Nichols Reuters

1:27 p.m. EDT, October 20, 2011

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Families of victims killed in the Libyan bombing of a U.S. airliner over Scotland in 1988 said justice was served with the death of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi on Thursday, but they also hoped it would reveal others behind the attack.

"I hope he's in hell with Hitler," said Kathy Tedeschi, whose first husband, Bill Daniels, was among the 270 people killed in the 1988 bombing of PanAm Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. "I just can't stop crying, I am so thrilled."

"I am sure (Gaddafi) was the one who pushed to have this done, the bombing," said Tedeschi, 62, whose three children were aged 10, 7 and 2 when their father was killed.

-------

"We have been saying for more than 20 years ... that (Gaddafi) would continue to haunt the world until he was brought to justice," said Flynn. "We can take a certain sense of accomplishment that we were able to honor our loved ones and not give up."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/sns-rt-us-libya-gaddafi-lockerbietre79j51e-20111020,0,4168619.story?track=rss

[ellisonz]

117. Yemen’s Saleh Faces UN Action as Qaddafi Killed

By Flavia Krause-Jackson - Oct 20, 2011 9:01 PM PT

A day after the death of Muammar Qaddafi, the United Nations Security Council that authorized bombing over Libya plans action against another despot clinging to power: Yemen’s Ali Abdullah Saleh.

A vote is expected today on a proposed resolution calling on Saleh to implement a Gulf Cooperation Council-brokered deal, under which he would resign and transfer power to his deputy in return for immunity from prosecution for his family and inner circle.

The killing of the Libyan dictator yesterday resonated among the thousands of Yemenis who took to the streets of the capital Sana’a to renew calls for the end of Saleh’s 33-year rule.

“The end of Qaddafi has given us a strong boost that regardless of how much time our revolt will take, we will win and the fate of Saleh will be like that of Qaddafi,” Maher al- Haidari, a protester, said in an interview.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-21/yemen-s-saleh-faces-un-action-a-day-after-despot-qaddafi-killed.html

[ellisonz]

118. UK Newspaper review: The life and death of a dictator

21 October 2011 Last updated at 00:49 ET

"Death of a dictator." "No mercy for a merciless tyrant." "Murdering rat gets his just deserts." "Mad dog put down."

The bloody demise of Libyan leader Col Gaddafi is conveyed by dramatic headlines and in even more powerful pictures on Friday's UK newspaper front pages.

"He said he'd fight to the death, and for once," the Guardian observes, "he stuck to his word."

"He died as he lived," suggests the Daily Mirror, "shown no mercy as he pleaded for his life."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15398466

[pinboy3niner]

119. Is this the Bugs Bunny thread?

Oh, wait a minute...that's over here:

SHHH! Be VEWWY VEWWY QUIET!... I'm hunting TYWANTS!!!

Posted in GD by yoyossarian:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2158240

[ellisonz]

120. Al-Jazeera: NTC fighters talk about the last battle

2 hours 46 min ago - Libya

Al Jazeera speaks to some of the Libyan fighters as they recount how they fought, captured Muammar Gaddafi and how he was eventually killed after a clash broke out.

The fighters had discovered his location from a member of his loyalists who surrendered earlier.

He was discovered hiding a small group of people in a pipe before surrendering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA0vYg-Co-Y&feature=player_embedded#!

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

Interviews with 3 thuwar.

[ellisonz]

121. Analysis: Libya's next tests - Big expectations, power plays

Analysis: Libya's next tests - Big expectations, power plays
ReutersBy William Maclean | Reuters – 6 hrs ago

LONDON (Reuters) - Jockeying for power among Libya's well-armed and fractious new leadership may intensify after the death of Muammar Gaddafi, an anxious and, for many, joyous moment in a country hungry for stability and impatient to swap the bullet for the ballot box.

The interim government will be determined to ensure that lingering pro-Gaddafi forces are prevented from launching any rearguard guerrilla insurgency from the countryside that could destabilize the north African OPEC member and its oil industry.

Gaddafi's death is expected to allow Libya to start earning money again by selling its oil on world markets as a more benign security environment allows oilfield staff to get back to work.

But perhaps the most important test for the interim National Transitional Council will be to manage the enormous expectations of Libya's 6 million people, now freed definitively from the fear that Gaddafi could ever reimpose his long strongman rule.

http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-libyas-next-tests-big-expectations-power-plays-225106543.html

[Tx4obama]

122. Thank you for keeping us all informed during the past year.

You've done a GREAT job and EVERYONE else too that contributed to the ongoing updates/threads.

THANK YOU to ALL !!!

[ellisonz]

124. New York Post: Libya’s sinister scions fight till the last bullet

Libya’s sinister scions fight till the last bullet
By CHUCK BENNETT
Last Updated: 1:56 AM, October 21, 2011
Posted: 1:56 AM, October 21, 2011

Ruling Libya with a bloody, iron fist was the family business for Moammar Khadafy’s clan.

The loony Libyan leader tapped his eight children and beloved second wife, Safia Farskash, to command segments of the country’s military and economy.

But the February uprising that ended yesterday with Khadafy’s demise had already ended the good times for his pampered brood.

His eldest son and heir apparent, Saif al-Islam, 39, was captured in Sirte fighting to the bitter end with his father.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/libya_sinister_scions_fight_till_Gq9VhHzLtP09cHFIqW6jOK#ixzz1bOWqjTfr

[catchnrelease]

125. Thanks

Thanks for 35 weeks of tireless reporting on this revolution--to all of those that took the time to post continual updates for those of us that were interested. It was a HUGE amount of work, and I really appreciate it. I hope that the FFs/the NTC/the Libyan people will create the government that they want for themselves. (And not what 'we' think they should have.)

:toast:


"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous
They did it Mo!!

[ellisonz]

126. PBS News Hour: How Will History Judge U.S., Coalition Intervention in Libya?

President Obama said Moammar Gadhafi's death "marks the end of a long and painful chapter." Margret Warner explores how history may view President Obama and the United States for intervening in Libya with Richard Haass of the Council on Foreign Relations and James Steinberg, former Obama administration deputy secretary of State.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/july-dec11/obamapolicy_10-20.html

Steinberg owns frequent Scarborough guest Richard Haass on the facts. Haass argues that there was no vital national interest on the line in Libya. How about hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees? Prick. He's have said the same thing in 1939 on Nazi Germany.

[ellisonz]

127. Well played Iran!

2 hours 31 min ago - Libya

Iran on Friday hailed the killing of ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and the capture of his hometown Sirte, and said it hoped his death would spell a swift end to NATO's military intervention.

"The inevitable fate of all dictators and oppressors who do not respect the rights of their people is destruction," the official IRNA news agency quoted foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast as saying.

"The Islamic Republic of Iran welcomes this great victory and congratulates the Muslim Libyan people and the National Transitional Council," Mehmanparast said.

Following Gaddafi's death, "there is no longer any pretext for foreign military intervention in Libya and it is vital that foreign forces withdraw immediately to allow the Libyan people to determine its own future," he added.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya

Taking the PRC stance...:sarcasm:

[pinboy3niner]

129. Gadhafi's burial delayed for further investigation

AP – 1 hr 4 mins ago


TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — A Libyan official says the burial of slain leader Moammar Gadhafi has been delayed until his death can be examined by the International Criminal Court.

Mohamed Sayeh, a senior member of the governing National Transitional Council, says a "third party will come from outside of Libya to go through the paperwork."

Sayeh also says Gadhafi's body is still in Misrata, where it was taken after his killing in Sirte. He says Gadhafi will be buried with respect according to Islam tradition and will not have a public funeral.

Friday's delay comes as bloody images of Gadhafi's last moments have raised questions over how exactly he died after he was captured wounded, but alive.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.


http://news.yahoo.com/gadhafis-burial-delayed-further-investigation-092210116.html

[pinboy3niner]

130. Syrian protesters take inspiration from Libya

AP – 44 mins ago


BEIRUT (AP) — Activists say protesters pouring into Syria's streets are cheering the death of Libya's ousted ruler, Moammar Gadhafi.

...


On Friday, protesters carried signs that read, "We congratulate Libyan rebels for the victory." Dozens also were seen marching in the Damascus suburb of Douma, chanting slogans calling on Assad to resign.

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-protesters-inspiration-libya-102254366.html

[pinboy3niner]

131. Gaddafi son Saif fleeing towards Niger - NTC officer

Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:18am GMT


LONDON Oct 21 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam is fleeing south from Sirte towards Libya's border with Niger, a senior military commander of the interim National Transitional Council (NTC) said on Friday.

Abdul Majid Mlegta told Reuters that Islam was believed to travelling in a convoy of three armoured vehicles to try to escape NTC forces that overran Sirte on Thursday and killed his father, Libya's deposed former ruler.

"We are searching for him. The fighters in the region are on full alert," Mlegta said.

...


Megta said that in recent days Gaddafi's security chief Abdullah al-Senussi, believed to be hiding in Niger, had been trying to organise some form of safe passage from Sirte to Niger for Gaddafi's entourage.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7LL26220111021?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

132. NTC to announce 'national liberation' on Saturday

From The Guardian's Live Blog:

Al-Jazeera's James Bays reports that the NTC says it will announce "national liberation" on Saturday. He says the announcement will be made from Benghazi, the base for the NTC throughout the civil war. The council had said that they would declare the liberation of Libya after Sirte fell.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/oct/21/libya-after-gaddafi-live-updates#block-19

[joshcryer]

133. Week 35 part 5 (wrapup) here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2159087